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TalkBulls Forums _ Bulls Talk _ Rumor Deal: Chi/Por/Uta
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Jul 9 2009, 10:58 AM
Chicago: Gets Boozer
Portland: Gets Hinrich
Utah: Gets Ty Thomas and future Chicago 1st
This is the rumored deal without the fillers. To me it's too much. Take the 1st out of it and I'd do it. Maybe even a 2011 1st.
Posted by: Balta1701-B Jul 9 2009, 11:06 AM
I'd jump at it. The future first doesn't bother me at all; getting rid of our 2010 1st rounder saves $1 million + under the cap, and if you replace Tyrus with Boozer, there's every reason to believe that we'd be well out of the lottery next year.
We'd need at least 1 more backup guard, but dump both Tyrus and Hinrich and suddenly we've got the full MLE available under the luxury tax.
Posted by: Sanitarium Jul 9 2009, 11:06 AM
Kirk and Tyrus + daft pick for just Boozer?? we better be getting something back from Portland....
i think rudy fernandez would be a could piece to have... international guys always prefer the bigger markets and he's unhappy with portland anyways afaik. he has a team option after next year and could back up salmons at the 2
Posted by: Balta1701-B Jul 9 2009, 11:08 AM
With the new information about the salary cap levels next offseason, the value of Hinrich dropped considerably yesterday.
Wouldn't someone wind up getting a trade exemption out of a deal like that?
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Jul 9 2009, 11:15 AM
I think the fillers would be one of Blake or Outlaw or maybe if were really lucky Bayless.
http://twitter.com/1280TheZone
Well they can't spell Hinrich's name right, could be B.S.
Posted by: eddog2 Jul 9 2009, 01:19 PM
If we land Rudy/Blake/ & Boozer for Kirk/Tyrus/& a #1 I'd be jumping for joy and I'd take back everything I said about management and letting BG go.
I love Rudy.
Posted by: steve9347 Jul 9 2009, 01:23 PM
Maybe they'll throw me my boy Rudy in this deal.
I'd love to see Boozer in a Bulls uniform.
Posted by: steve9347 Jul 9 2009, 01:30 PM
He's MY boy.
Posted by: soxfan3530 Jul 9 2009, 01:56 PM
here is another version of the rumor. i dont see how the bulls could do this with our already thin backcourt:
http://www.1080thefan.com/pages/2901628.php
Posted by: jorgefabregas Jul 9 2009, 02:00 PM
I think the Bulls lose the trade on talent, but gain in terms of cap flexibility. This is the last year of Boozer's deal and it's one future 1st that they won't have to pay. I'd be shocked if they got Rudy in that deal. I really doubt that's happening.
Posted by: eddog2 Jul 9 2009, 02:05 PM
http://www.1080thefan.com/pages/2901628.php
Well the Blazers would have to give up something so I am assuming that would be Blake. Blake and possibly one of their SF's to the Bulls. Or one of their SF's or a SG could go to Utah as well. However it works out I'm sure Utah's main goal will be to take on the least possible salary in return. I think Portland and the Bulls would be stuck assuming the most salary in the deal.
I think the deal would be great for the Bulls. Blake & Boozer vs Kirk & Tyrus. I'll take the downgrade at PG (a defensive not offensive downgrade) and the huge offensive upgrade at PF. Plus the extra cap room. At worst it means that Pargo & Blake will get big minutes. Maybe if we did this deal we'd also consider going out and getting Von Wafer or someone else long term at the mid-year b/c Tyrus's $6M will be off the books for sure and we'd have the option to let Boozer walk (which essentially clears a few million more than what Kirk would be on the books for if we keep him).
Posted by: Sanitarium Jul 9 2009, 02:39 PM
http://www.1080thefan.com/pages/2901628.php
we'd have to be getting a SG from portland in that deal.
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Jul 9 2009, 03:03 PM
http://vault.desjalogic.com/rcrweb/podcasts/sports/WAW_7_7_H3.mp3
Bucher talks about this rumor a few minutes in.
Posted by: soxfan3530 Jul 9 2009, 03:30 PM
nothing official,but interesting nonetheless...
http://twitter.com/t_time24
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Jul 9 2009, 03:36 PM
Things are starting to get cooking! 
Comment Email Print Share
By Marc Stein and Chad Ford
ESPN.com
Another major multi-team trade might be looming in the NBA with the Portland Trail Blazers, Utah Jazz and Chicago Bulls having discussed a deal that would be headlined by Carlos Boozer and Kirk Hinrich, according to NBA front-office sources.
Sources stressed to ESPN.com that no deal was imminent Thursday and that both Portland and Utah are still evaluating multiple trade scenarios. But two sources with knowledge of the three-team proposal confirmed that there have been substantive talks regarding a trade that would land Boozer in Chicago, Hinrich in Portland and Tyrus Thomas in Utah.
A deal featuring those main components would deliver the elite low-post scorer that the Bulls have been chasing for years in Boozer and furnish Portland with a lead guard in Hinrich that the Blazers are known to rate highly as a potential backcourt mate for Brandon Roy. It's possible that other players would be added to balance out the transaction from a salary-cap perspective if the three teams elect to take these talks further.
Yet even if this deal collapses, sources say it is clear that the Jazz are becoming increasingly open to the possibility of moving Boozer now to increase their financial flexibility to re-sign restricted free agent Paul Millsap.
Despite fresh reports Thursday about the Blazers weighing whether to sign Millsap to an offer sheet, Hinrich is the player Portland prefers, according to one source close to the process, after the Blazers came so close last week to landing the versatile Hedo Turkoglu.
Boozer has only one season left at $12.7 million after declining the option in his contract to become an unrestricted free agent July 1. It's believed that the Jazz are determined to keep Millsap but are concerned about the luxury-tax consequences of signing him to a long-term deal.
Posted by: Balta1701-B Jul 9 2009, 03:49 PM
So, as written, Hinrich to the Blazers, Boozer to the Bulls, and Thomas to Utah does not work because Portland is taking on too much salary. At least 1 more player needs to move out of Portland to balance the salaries.
Portland has a number of fairly cheap guys, I came up with multiple easy ways to make it work: the Bulls get Boozer and Jarrod Bayless, or the Bulls get Boozer, Nicolas Batum, and Rudy Fernandez, or the Bulls get Boozer and Steve Blake, or the Bulls get Boozer and Travis Outlaw. It would work with other guys like Roy or Oden but I think the trade machine would just laugh at me. Either way, Portland has to move 1.7 million in salary to make this work. Utah could take on an extra player from Portland as well since this deal cuts salary for them.
Posted by: eddog2 Jul 9 2009, 03:52 PM
Portland has a number of fairly cheap guys, I came up with multiple easy ways to make it work: the Bulls get Boozer and Jarrod Bayless, or the Bulls get Boozer, Nicolas Batum, and Rudy Fernandez, or the Bulls get Boozer and Steve Blake, or the Bulls get Boozer and Travis Outlaw. It would work with other guys like Roy or Oden but I think the trade machine would just laugh at me. Either way, Portland has to move 1.7 million in salary to make this work. Utah could take on an extra player from Portland as well since this deal cuts salary for them.
I highly doubt it will be either Batum or Bayless. I would like it to be Rudy but I don't think that will happen either. It will be either Outlaw or Blake or both.
Posted by: soxfan3530 Jul 9 2009, 03:54 PM
i would guess it would be blake. which would be ok. he is a solid backup pg
Posted by: Balta1701-B Jul 9 2009, 04:03 PM
The Bulls can not take on both Blake and Outlaw; they'll be taking on too much salary and they'd have to move something else as well. It does work if Portland sends out both Outlaw and Blake and the Bulls and Jazz each take 1 player.
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Jul 9 2009, 04:45 PM
Holy crap Tyrus just updated his facebook page and said this!
http://www.facebook.com/t.time24?hiq=tyrus%2Cthomas&__a=1#/t.time24?v=wall&viewas=514481436
Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 9 2009, 04:47 PM
Thats the best thing Tyrus has done in his career. I just came to post that.
Posted by: AtHomeBoy_2000 Jul 9 2009, 06:37 PM
It's a salary dump for 2010. Simple as that.
Posted by: Balta1701-B Jul 9 2009, 07:16 PM
You don't think Boozer on our team next year compared to Thomas and Hinrich makes us a better team next year?
Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 9 2009, 07:22 PM
Adrian Wodzenkerekowoski from Yahoo's Twitter:
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Jul 9 2009, 08:06 PM
Not believing him. I'm remaining optimistic. This deal is going to happen!
Posted by: DutheDoduhon21 Jul 9 2009, 08:55 PM
tyrus says...
maybe they are just bogus rumors.
Posted by: rockren Jul 9 2009, 09:21 PM
This trade makes too much sense for all parties involve not to get done. Portland has wanted Hinrich for a while...and I like this move for Utah.
I believe it'll fall on what Millsap tells/has told Utah.
Posted by: GreatScott82 Jul 9 2009, 09:36 PM
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this deal gets done by tommorow. And if it indeed does happen, Kudos to Gar Foreman and upper management. The Bulls would be in position to sign 2 superstars next summer even with Luol Deng's contract.
Bosh and Wade a reality?
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Jul 9 2009, 09:57 PM
Bosh and Wade a reality?
I seriously think if that were to happen, you could just hand us the next 3 NBA championships right now without ever playing the games. The scary thing is that it could indeed happen
Posted by: steve9347 Jul 9 2009, 09:58 PM
Boozer
Kobe
Gasol
Amare
F*cking
B*llshit
Everytime
Posted by: eddog2 Jul 9 2009, 11:06 PM
Kobe
Gasol
Amare
F*cking
B*llshit
Everytime
I hope you are wrong. But you are probably not.
Posted by: steve9347 Jul 10 2009, 07:20 AM
Immediately goes from a fun trade idea to a really, really stupid one... we'd have NO ONE to shoot the ball.
Posted by: Balta1701-B Jul 10 2009, 10:02 AM
But the Bulls would have cap space for Von Wafer or whoever else was available at SG. Or they could move Tyrus for a SG because our frontcourt would be seriously overloaded.
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Jul 10 2009, 10:08 AM
I saw that report yesterday about Salmons but I'm pretty sure it is Tyrus in the deal and not Salmons. Don't forget we will most likely get Blake from Portland if we do this deal as a filler. He'd be a good option to have as a backup PG and also combo with DRose as he plays the 2 for certain stretches in the game. I don't know how much money we'd have left to spend after making this trade but it would be totally awesome to have enough room to sign TWO max free agents.
Posted by: Balta1701-B Jul 10 2009, 10:16 AM
It's worth thinking about TT's contract situation there also...if you're Utah, you look at Tyrus and see a guy who will be a RFA next offseason who's performance has been inconsistent at best. If someone offers him anything above the MLE next offseason, he's liable to walk, because you may not want to match it. Combine that with Utah's general weakness at their SG spot the past few years and there's decent logic to them fishing for Salmons instead of Tyrus. Okur and Milsap isn't a bad frontcourt if you've got Salmons and DWill holding down your backcourt.
Posted by: rockren Jul 10 2009, 10:29 AM
Damnit. I knew they'd ask for Salmons...we need Salmons next year. I don't want any part of that unless we've facilitated a deal for a SG of Salmons' caliber for Tyrus.
That also means I want nothing to do with AI.
Posted by: Clifton Pondexter Jul 10 2009, 10:33 AM
Sam Smith said these rumors are absolutely false.
Posted by: AtHomeBoy_2000 Jul 10 2009, 11:03 AM
too much smoke for there not to be a fire.
Posted by: Balta1701-B Jul 10 2009, 11:23 AM
It may be that the Bulls were called up and the Jazz and Blazers asked us to give up Tyrus, Salmons, Hinrich, and our #1 pick and we laughed it off, but I have trouble believing Smith when ESPN is flooding out details of the talks, as are the guys in Salt Lake, while the Bulls guys are saying no one is talking about anything.
Always strikes me as weird though how 2 different sets of reporters can say things that are so completely opposed. "They're talking". "No, they're not".
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Jul 10 2009, 12:04 PM
Sam Smith was also the one that said the Bulls had absolutely no interest in acquiring Brad Miller at the trade deadline..
Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 10 2009, 12:14 PM
Sam Smith is too busy making up retarded trade scenarios in his head that would never happen instead of actually looking at what is really going on. Next up: How through 19 trades and a little stroke of magic, the Bulls turn Joakim Noah into Dwight Howard.
Posted by: Clifton Pondexter Jul 10 2009, 12:30 PM
Actually, Sam is a pretty good buddy of Jerry Reinsdorf. I trust what he says. The NBA is a rumor league. Most are fake.
Posted by: Sanitarium Jul 10 2009, 01:18 PM
Well it seems that all the 'go-ahead' rumors are originating out of Salt Lake, and everyone shooting it down are Bulls sources... maybe this was just the Jazz making some calls and the folks in Utah got carried away
Posted by: Balta1701-B Jul 10 2009, 01:29 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4319607 Article by Stein and Ford.
Sources stressed to ESPN.com on Thursday that no deal was imminent, but two sources with knowledge of the three-team proposal confirmed that there have been detailed talks aimed at landing Boozer in Chicago, Hinrich in Portland and Tyrus Thomas in Utah.
These trade discussions, sources said, are the byproduct of a hard push by the Jazz to move Boozer in an attempt to create the financial flexibility needed to comfortably re-sign restricted free agent Paul Millsap, along with Portland's ongoing attempts to cash in on its nearly $8 million in available salary-cap space after Hedo Turkoglu made an 11th-hour switch to sign with the Toronto Raptors.
Sources say that, as a result, Utah and Portland continue to explore trade scenarios with other teams.
One source close to the process on Friday identified two main obstacles to the aforementioned three-way deal. Concerned about the quality of its backcourt rotation if it has to surrender Hinrich with Thomas after losing Ben Gordon in free agency, Chicago would insist that the Blazers surrender young guard Jerrod Bayless, which Portland is reluctant to do.
If it can't get Bayless, Chicago might still be willing to substitute Tim Thomas for Tyrus Thomas in the deal, but sources say Utah would likely balk if Tyrus Thomas is not included.
...
When asked about the trade talks with the Blazers and Bulls, Jazz general manager Kevin O'Connor declined comment in Friday's editions of the Salt Lake Tribune.
Bulls general manager Gar Forman did not offer specifics but told the Chicago Sun-Times: ''There are always conversations going on, and we'll continue to talk to teams to see if we can make ourselves better."
Posted by: Balta1701-B Jul 10 2009, 01:31 PM
In that case...it's also possible that if the Jazz want this deal to go down, they decided to do some leaking knowing that the Chicago Media will jump on the bandwagon in favor of the deal, to try to apply some pressure to the Bulls.
Posted by: eddog2 Jul 10 2009, 02:29 PM
QUOTE
One source close to the process on Friday identified two main obstacles to the aforementioned three-way deal. Concerned about the quality of its backcourt rotation if it has to surrender Hinrich with Thomas after losing Ben Gordon in free agency, Chicago would insist that the Blazers surrender young guard Jerrod Bayless, which Portland is reluctant to do.
If it can't get Bayless, Chicago might still be willing to substitute Tim Thomas for Tyrus Thomas in the deal, but sources say Utah would likely balk if Tyrus Thomas is not included."
You are joking right? The Bulls think they can get Bayless for Kirk and Boozer for Tim Thomas. No wonder they can’t ever get a deal done. They are worse than trying to deal with you in fantasy basketball.
Kirk and Tyrus is fair trade for Boozer and something not named Bayless from Portland. (Blake, Outlaw, Rudy, ect.) How can the Bulls think they are going to replace Tim Thomas for Tyrus. If they get Boozer for Tim Thomas and Bayless for Kirk I’ll give JR/Gar credit for being the best negotiators ever.
I would love a Rose/Bayless backcourt option this year. We’d start Salmons but go small from time to time. Bayless can score. He’d make and excellent 6th man.
Give up Kirk & Tyrus & a future 1st and get Boozer/Bayless & Outlaw.
Posted by: truthandbasketball Jul 10 2009, 02:31 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4319607
Another major multi-team trade might be looming in the NBA with the Portland Trail Blazers, Utah Jazz and Chicago Bulls having discussed a deal that would be headlined by Carlos Boozer and Kirk Hinrich, according to NBA front-office sources.
Sources stressed to ESPN.com on Thursday that no deal was imminent, but two sources with knowledge of the three-team proposal confirmed that there have been detailed talks aimed at landing Boozer in Chicago, Hinrich in Portland and Tyrus Thomas in Utah.
These trade discussions, sources said, are the byproduct of a hard push by the Jazz to move Boozer in an attempt to create the financial flexibility needed to comfortably re-sign restricted free agent Paul Millsap, along with Portland's ongoing attempts to cash in on its nearly $8 million in available salary-cap space after Hedo Turkoglu made an 11th-hour switch to sign with the Toronto Raptors.
Sources say that, as a result, Utah and Portland continue to explore trade scenarios with other teams.
One source close to the process on Friday identified two main obstacles to the aforementioned three-way deal. Concerned about the quality of its backcourt rotation if it has to surrender Hinrich with Thomas after losing Ben Gordon in free agency, Chicago would insist that the Blazers surrender young guard Jerryd Bayless, which Portland is reluctant to do.
If it can't get Bayless, Chicago might still be willing to substitute Tim Thomas for Tyrus Thomas in the deal, but sources say Utah would likely balk if Tyrus Thomas is not included.
For a time Wednesday, sources say Chicago was committed to participate in the four-team deal that ultimately sent Shawn Marion to Dallas, with Tim Thomas also headed for the Mavericks. One source with knowledge of the discussions said that the Bulls pulled Thomas out of that deal Wednesday night to plug him into another trade.
The Detroit Pistons, meanwhile, continue to be widely mentioned as a trade suitor for Boozer, but sources with knowledge of Detroit's thinking insisted again Friday that the Pistons will not join the trade bidding for the Team USA power forward because they think Tayshaun Prince and newly signed Charlie Villanueva will complement each other better than Boozer and Villanueva would.
When asked about the trade talks with the Blazers and Bulls, Jazz general manager Kevin O'Connor declined comment in Friday's editions of the Salt Lake Tribune.
Bulls general manager Gar Forman did not offer specifics but told the Chicago Sun-Times: ''There are always conversations going on, and we'll continue to talk to teams to see if we can make ourselves better."
A deal headlined by Boozer and Hinrich would deliver the elite low-post scorer that the Bulls have been chasing for years while also positioning them to have significant salary-cap space for the summer of 2010 to court Chicago native Dwyane Wade or Chris Bosh in free agency, thanks to Boozer's $12.7 million expiring contract.
Hinrich, meanwhile, is a lead guard that Blazers general manager Kevin Pritchard has been known to covet for some time as a potential backcourt mate for Brandon Roy.
Other Blazers mentioned for possible inclusion in a Boozer deal include Travis Outlaw, Steve Blake and Martell Webster.
Even if a Boozer-to-Chicago concept goes no further, it is becoming increasingly evident that Utah is prepared to move Boozer immediately to ensure that it can re-sign Millsap.
Pritchard acknowledged Friday afternoon in a session with local reporters that he is also weighing whether to extend an offer sheet to Millsap, but he offered no timetable when asked how soon the Blazers will make their first splash of the offseason with that cap space.
"We're looking at all our options," Pritchard said. "We're excited about all the possibilities and maybe they happen tomorrow, maybe they happen in two months, maybe they happen at the trade deadline."
As for Millsap specifically, Pritchard said: "I wouldn't just say that we're just looking at him. We are talking with him. That I can verify. But he's not the only person we're talking to."
Pritchard also addressed a report in Thursday's Oregonian newspaper that talks negotiations on contract extensions for franchise cornerstones Roy and forward LaMarcus Aldridge have stalled.
"It's amicable," he said. "We plan to make it amicable. More importantly, Brandon and LaMarcus will be here for a long time."
After injuries restricted him to just 37 games last season, Boozer declined the option in his contract to become an unrestricted free agent July 1. It's believed that the Jazz are determined to keep Millsap but are concerned about the luxury-tax consequences of signing him to a long-term deal.
Marc Stein and Chad Ford are senior NBA writers for ESPN.com.
Posted by: truthandbasketball Jul 10 2009, 02:34 PM
I would love Outlaw included as a trading chip in the deal. He'd be a good replacement for Tyrus' leaping ability. What's his contract look like?
Posted by: Balta1701-B Jul 10 2009, 02:51 PM
$4 million for 2009-2010, Free Agent next summer if you don't extend him.
Posted by: rockren Jul 10 2009, 04:34 PM
If it is indeed the Bulls dragging their heels and asking for Bayless instead of say Blake or Webster....
The thought of that makes me want to jump off a frickin' building.
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 10 2009, 04:38 PM
All I know is if it is Hinrich/Tyrus I'd support the deal regardless as long as we got Boozer. I would think we'd get a guard as well.
Posted by: Cowch Jul 10 2009, 04:56 PM
So two things. As per Rotoworld...
ESPN's Chris Broussard is reporting that the semi-controversial three-team deal sending Carlos Boozer and Jerryd Bayless to the Bulls, Kirk Hinrich to the Blazers, and Tyrus Thomas to the Jazz is dead in its current form.
Broussard quoted Blazers GM Kevin Pritchard as saying that it's "not going to happen," despite his team's strong desire to acquire Kirk Hinrich. Much was made of whether or not the trade discussions were real, but the easy takeaway from this is that the Blazers will likely shift their focus to free agents Paul Millsap, Lamar Odom, and Andre Miller. Jul. 10 - 6:28 pm et
The Portland Trailblazers offered Paul Millsap the much-publicized "toxic" deal that was reported on heavily over the past week, including $32-36 million over four years.
The Jazz will have seven days to match the offer beginning on Saturday, with the "toxic" portion being a hefty signing bonus that will be difficult for the Jazz to match without trading Carlos Boozer's contract. This is the first move in what will likely set off a chain reaction of events, and if Utah is planning to use Boozer in trade negotiations, they can thank the Blazers for starting the clock. Jul. 10 - 6:42 pm et
Do you think Portland may want Kirk bad enough to force Utah to make the trade?
Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 10 2009, 04:59 PM
ESPN's Chris Broussard is reporting that the semi-controversial three-team deal sending Carlos Boozer and Jerryd Bayless to the Bulls, Kirk Hinrich to the Blazers, and Tyrus Thomas to the Jazz is dead in its current form.
Broussard quoted Blazers GM Kevin Pritchard as saying that it's "not going to happen," despite his team's strong desire to acquire Kirk Hinrich. Much was made of whether or not the trade discussions were real, but the easy takeaway from this is that the Blazers will likely shift their focus to free agents Paul Millsap, Lamar Odom, and Andre Miller. Jul. 10 - 6:28 pm et
The Portland Trailblazers offered Paul Millsap the much-publicized "toxic" deal that was reported on heavily over the past week, including $32-36 million over four years.
The Jazz will have seven days to match the offer beginning on Saturday, with the "toxic" portion being a hefty signing bonus that will be difficult for the Jazz to match without trading Carlos Boozer's contract. This is the first move in what will likely set off a chain reaction of events, and if Utah is planning to use Boozer in trade negotiations, they can thank the Blazers for starting the clock. Jul. 10 - 6:42 pm et
Do you think Portland may want Kirk bad enough to force Utah to make the trade?
If it's the Bulls fault that this deal is dead, I'm boycotting the team.
Posted by: Clifton Pondexter Jul 10 2009, 06:05 PM
KC Johnson on Tribune Live echoed Sam Smith and said this deal was never discussed. Apparently the NBA is bracing for a huge drop in salary cap next year the the disparity in what guys can sign for staying with their teams and what guys can sign for with a new team is going to be very big. Johnson said the Bulls really want Bosh, but now believe they probably have no shot. The guy they think they may have a shot at is Wade.
He also said Boozer made a lot of sense for the Bulls, so why they aren't discussing him if that's the case, is puzzling.
I suppose its possible the Bulls did discuss this deal but don't want their fanbase to know they might have said no. The majority I'm quite sure would get rid of Tyrus and Hinrich for Boozer. I don't know if you want Pargo playing as your 3rd guard, and maybe the Bulls don't either. If the Bulls did turn it down and got shut out of free agency next offseason, the PR would be brutal.
Posted by: rockren Jul 10 2009, 07:50 PM
If any organization can waste Derek Rose's talents...it could be this one. The Paxson regime just is incapable of pulling the trigger. You have to give a lot sometimes to get a lot. Isiah Thomas isn't on the other end of the phone every time you make a deal.
If this deal is dead because of the Bulls insisting on Bayless...I'm extremely disappointed in the Bulls and their inability to get it done.
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Jul 10 2009, 08:41 PM
I honest to god have no clue as to how KC Johnson nor Sam Smith think the Bulls haven't been in discussions about Boozer. It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. How can multiple sources confirm that talks have been ongoing and then a couple say there hasn't even been a discussion? It makes too much sense for us not to be involved so I choose not to believe them. Where there is smoke there is fire, and it's been going around ESPN alot so it has to have atleast been talked about.
Posted by: eddog2 Jul 10 2009, 08:50 PM
Well you and I both know it's the Bulls fault so start the boycott. They do a lot of fishing with no bait. They expect something great to just fall in their laps without giving up Kirk or without giving up any talent. It's just not going to happen. The Bulls and their love obsession of Kirk must end. If we have to go into next season with Pargo playing 25-30 minutes so be it. At least we will have rid ourselves of $13M in cap space (possibly more) if we get Outlaw or Blake back in a deal. We then set ourselves up in a great position to sign Boozer and Wade or let Boozer walk and try to sign another big time free agent. What's not to like about the possibility? Meanwhile, the Bulls would be a very solid/dangerous team with a Noah/Boozer/Deng/Salmons/Rose lineup. Sign another free agent or 2 to 1 year contracts and lets see what happens.
Posted by: eddog2 Jul 10 2009, 08:53 PM
The Bulls should be the last team playing the cap card. If they come up with some lame excuse about how they decided to not pull the trigger because of cap uncertainty I'll flip. There is nothing more certain than knowing that having a backup PG make $9M kills your chances of winning a title. We need to build our starting lineup. To lure a prime time FA you need the max amount of cap space. Not $1M or $2M off from it. Anyway, players also have to pay the crazy Illinois taxes. If I was a free agent I'd go to Texas. No income tax. Low property tax. Warm weather. What's not to love.
Posted by: Clifton Pondexter Jul 10 2009, 09:22 PM
KC made a point of saying its not sources, but source. He claims the talks never happened, now the source, ESPN, said its dead. I don't know, it could be Sam and KC were right, or it could be the Bulls don't want their fans to know about it, because they know the majority would do it, and they may be in the minority. The NBA is loaded with so many rumors, its not too far fetched to think Sam and KC are correct, or at least if there were "talks" it was some team making an inquiry that was quickly rejected.
Posted by: Sanitarium Jul 10 2009, 09:36 PM
That's what I'm thinking. I'm thinking the Jazz floated out those two offers to both teams, and someone shot them down pretty fast.
I really, really, really hope thats not true, but you never know. Maybe they talks will pick up again once there is some certainty with Milsap's situation
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Jul 11 2009, 10:05 AM
So we're back to square one. No Boozer, no nothing. Could it have been us holding up the deal because of Bayless? That certainly seems to be the case. We know Utah had no problem doing the deal because they want to give up Boozer. Portland wants their Hinrich, and the Bulls want Boozer AND Bayless. So the primary players in the deal seem to be agreed upon, it's the secondary guys that is holding up the deal mainly Bayless..
Posted by: Sanitarium Jul 11 2009, 10:16 AM
You don't think Portland signing Millsap to an offer is just a way of forcing the action?
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Jul 11 2009, 10:41 AM
I think Utah is going to deal Boozer regardless of what happens to Millsap.
Posted by: Clifton Pondexter Jul 11 2009, 11:15 AM
The big problem the Bulls have according to the writers closest to the team, is the fear of the cap dropping a ton after next season. Teams will be able to offer their own free agents, not just more money, but $40 million more than other teams, if the rumored projections are accurate. So, you either have to do a sign and trade and make sure you have some players who would interest the teams who would be losing the FA or you are going to need a reason for a player to want to play for less, and Chicago in the winter, possible 66.7% hike in state taxes, isn't a very good reason. If MJ were still here and players knew they would be playing for a title, that's one thing, but the Bulls aren't there. They either need to trade for a FA to be or probably will get shut out on the big names, unless the NBA's economics make an unexpected recovery next season, or Wade decides he wants to come home. Chances are Bosh probably isn't going anywhere.
Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 11 2009, 12:14 PM
Um, no. It's one or other. If Millsap stays, Boozer goes. If Millsap bolts, they'll very likely keep Boozer. Sloan isn't going to run Kirilenko out at PF for 30 minutes plus.
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Jul 11 2009, 12:20 PM
Well according to most NBA insiders (Broussard, Stein, Bucher) that's the plan. They want to get rid of Boozer regardless to clear up some cap room.
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4320887&categoryid=2459788
Posted by: Sanitarium Jul 11 2009, 01:33 PM
I was under the impression that all of the boozer talks were because they wanted to keep Millsap at any cost?
Posted by: Balta1701-B Jul 11 2009, 02:29 PM
Well, Milsap is only an RFA so they have the option to match.
Posted by: Sanitarium Jul 11 2009, 02:37 PM
Yeah I know, but now that Portlands offer is out there, they have to clear the cap room to be able to.
Posted by: Balta1701-B Jul 11 2009, 03:01 PM
Actually they don't; since Milsap is their own player, the Jazz don't have to clear any room to pay him. They have to be willing to go in to the luxury tax to be able to pay him, that's the problem. They can't match the offer sheet Milsap just signed with Portland and also keep Boozer without going in to luxury tax territory.
Posted by: Balta1701-B Jul 11 2009, 04:37 PM
By the way, in case you didn't notice it,http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4320029 They basically tried to poison pill it for Utah; Utah's already over the luxury tax, so Portland front-loaded the Hell out of the deal so that Utah will wind up like $14 million over the luxury tax if Utah matches it.
Posted by: rockren Jul 11 2009, 08:05 PM
Which means if they want to unload Boozer...they'd better do it quickly.
Posted by: Balta1701-B Jul 11 2009, 08:29 PM
Actually no...they could unload Boozer any time before the start of the season and still be in good shape tax-wise. Everyone will know they have to move him so that will hurt their negotiating position, but everyone else already knew that anyway.
Posted by: rockren Jul 13 2009, 04:17 PM
Matching Portland's offer and keeping Boozer will diminish Utah's negotiating stance more and more with each passing day in that case.
Posted by: eddog2 Jul 13 2009, 05:51 PM
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705316531,00.html
Carlos Boozer to Miami makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure that they have the cap room but they were the frontrunners to land Boozer last year until they used their cap on Jermaine O'neal. Wade wants Boozer. The question is will they be able to get him without a 3rd team getting involved?
Here's my best Sam Smith trade ideas:
If I'm the Bulls, I'd trade for Jermaine O'neal if we can't get Boozer. JO's expiring is going to be highly sought after come the trade deadline this year or will provide us with tons of cap space next year. I would try to start up a 4 team deal with Portland involved that would net us Bayless.
Heat: Boozer/
Jazz: Tyrus/Pargo? (if he can be traded)
Portland: Kirk/
Bulls: Jermaine O'neal/Bayless/Possible #1 from Miami
Fillers could be added to the deal to make the cap situation work.
Bulls get a promising SG/backup PG (a great 6th man option) and Jermaine O'neal's expiring. At the worst, Jermaine O'neal still covers Tyrus's shot blocking potential for the year. He's a better post scorer though he's not the same as he once was. I think him and Noah would play well together and playing with a nice PG like Rose and rounded scorers in Deng & Salmons could open up opportunities for him.
Or (scenario 2),
Miami has long been interested in Kirk (as have the Blazers) so this deal could work where Miami gets:
Miami: Kirk/Boozer/Tim Thomas/2nd round pick from Chicago
Bulls: Miami 1st round/Jermaine O'neal/Wright/Chalmers
Jazz: Tyrus/Pargo
The Bulls take on more salary for this year but this deal would improve their overall depth, give them tons of cap room next year, give them a 1st rounder from Miami, and also a nice backup PG for the future. We essentially get 2 young players that will remain core parts of our team, a 1st round pick, and cap space. I don't see a much better opportunity there for Kirk & Tyrus and I think this is somewhat realistic being that the Jazz have to trade Boozer and Miami is desperate to get Wade to sign. The Jazz will be willing to sell at a discount and the Heat will be willing to overpay b/c they need the 3rd team involved to make the deal work. That's where the Bulls could really benefit. I don't know about all of you but I'd much rather have Chalmers & Wright coming off the bench at our guard positions than Kirk & Pargo.
For Miami, this deal makes them instant players in the East. And if they want they can still go after A.I. Kirk/Wade/Beasley/Boozer/Haslem is a very nice starting lineup. Add A.I. to the bench or (as a starter if he cries) and watch out. This would prove to Wade that the Heat mean business and Wade would for sure sign (event though I think he's going to sign anyway). The move also ensures that Johnson gets big time minutes this year. In a worst case scenario, O'neal will blow out his knee and we'll be in the lottery, have tons of cap room, and also have Miami's pick.
Bulls:
Noah/Miller
O'neal/Johnson/Taj
Deng/Johnson/Wright
Salmons/Wright
Rose/Chalmers
Posted by: eddog2 Jul 13 2009, 05:57 PM
Now the only way it won't work is if the Heat are trying to make a push at Lebron and don't want to use their cap space. That could very well be the case b/c JO's expiring will allow them to go after Bosh or anyone else next year.
It will be interesting to see if they want to get Boozer and make a push this year or stand pat until after next year and run the risk that Wade skips town. They could essentially force Wade's hand by showing him the deal on the table and getting him to sign his extension before pulling the trigger. I think if Wade is willing to do that they'd have no problem blowing their cap space for next year on Boozer & Kirk (and possibly A.I.)
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