I agree. Unless we pick up a better PF, or unless Skiles decides to insert Nocioni as the starting PF, Brown will be the starter and will get a majority of those minutes. Sweetney will have had to have buested his ass off, lost 25 lbs, and start playing D before that changes. And plus this is a contract year for Sweetney and I see the Bulls not trying to up his value by playing him more minutes then last year.(just in case they even remotely are planning on keeping him which I don't think they are.)

Sweetney is still far from in great shape, and he's going to be a defensive liability regardless. You could say the same thing about Sweetney, he is not a key contributor on a good team. He can score, but that's about it. Brown brings more to the table, even at this point in his career.

No he doesnt...

You obviously havent seen him play the last 4-5 seasons, and especially not last season. Lets just equalize their stats in 31 minutes played for the sake of proving a point here.

RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG

PJ 7.3 1.2 .61 .67 1.2 2.9 9


Sweets 9 1.5 .5 1.44 2.4 5.44 13.77



So please tell me agin how Sweets is any more of a defensive liability than an end of the road worn down PJ?


Ill just say this again so you can bookmark it or whatever, whoever thinks Sweets will play less than the 18 a game he did last year will be wrong.

P.J. Brown is decent offensively, he is a fundamentals player, he rebounds, and he plays D. To top that off he is an excellent free throw shooter. He is a quality guy and he still is skilled. He starts while Sweetney admires him from the bench while he eats his donuts.

I agree, Brown's offense is not his biggest asset. He is 3 times the defender Sweetney is and is in far better shape, even if he is like 10 years older, and he is a more fundamentally sound player.

Brown will likely be the starter but I see Sweetney and Brown both getting about 20 minutes.

and how many more minutes did brown have to be scored on more v.e. sweets? it all adds up to brown being the better Defencive presence.

There's a lot more to defense than numbers. In fact, they tell you very little, there are numerous aspects that simply aren't measured. Sweetney simply can't stay in front of a lot of guys, Brown can.

I've seen him play enough to know that he's a pretty decent all around player, and is better than anything we had last year in the post. Brown has been a consistently solid but not spectacular big man.

There's a reason that Sweetney doesn't play more minutes, he's simply not effective enough defensively to keep him in there that long. You even admitted earlier that he isn't in good enough shape to handle it. Even his field goal percentage wasn't that good last year, he only shot 45%.

You can't just assume that he's going to be just as productive in heavier minutes as he was in limited minutes. He failed to get significant minutes on a size-deficient team last year, and another size-deficient team gave up on him. That doesn't say much about him.

i agree. i know this is off-topic but a lot of people said we were better off keeping Tyson Chandler instead of getting Wallace since there stats n points were the same and they both play D. Well we all know thats dumb and stupid but Ben Wallace is a 4 time DPY and people just want to just look at the stats. Ben Wallace does more than just wut NBA stats say. He intimidates players like if they are about to go for a lay-up and Ben Wallace is their, they know a block is waiting to happen and will try so hard for him not to be able to block their shot they miss the lay-up. But Tyson if he was n that position the player knows its an easy opportunity to go to the free throw line. Like ZoomSlowik said there is a lot more to defense than numbers.

Im backing up Zoom over here. Sweets has a hard time playing D, and he fouls a lot too. Not only that, but the guy looked like a rookie out there sometimes just by setting up moving picks and little things like that. Thats why he had a hard time getting off the bench for most of the season..

-Right now the bulls are really trying to win. Forget about developing players, they got Wallace and that just makes a statement that they are here to win. Skiles will play guys that they know what they are doing more than often, and PJ is a better all-around player than Sweets right now.... It hasnt been proven that sweets is better. And just because the guy all of the sudden lost some weight doesnt mean anything...He still has to go out there and prove that he can play both ends of the floor, be consistent, and get the job done in order to see more playing time out there...

Please get back to me when you can make some sense of this as pertains to what was in my quote. Where in my quote did I have any numbers about being scored on? Not to mention if that was the case with the points column(never seen points againt per on an individual player anyway), I stated those numbes where with all minutes being equal(to go with your first sentence). What here all adds up to Brown being a better defenSive presence? When Sweets was averaging more than twice as many blocks? Or was it when Sweets was pulling down more boards?

No stats arent everything, but they have A LOT to show you about the way someone is playing the game. PJ is now playing at a low producing level all around for his PT. Sweets is producing well in a limited role, and will only get better with conditioning. I can safely say, every bit more Sweets gets conditioned will show up in the form of more production for him. All signs point to him already in better shape, saying he wont put up better numbers while in better shape, while playing more minutes, after being more experienced in the league goes against every sort of logic out there. Sweets isnt a huge defensive liability as some claim, he didnt get backed down in the post, he boxes out very well on both ends of the court, he is very strong despite the claims that he is just weak a slob, and he wasnt too slow(just got tired, again the conditioning factors in). He isnt the high energy defender as one would want, but he isnt a pushover on that end of the court by any means. Everything points to Sweets being a better player, you factor in age and how much PJ has regressed, Sweets in better physical shape, and it isnt hard to see. PJ has never been more than a league average productive role player in the post, and is on his last legs, Sweets on the other hand at 13 years younger has already proved he can be just as productive while playing less minutes. It's simple really, Sweets in better shape=Sweets ability to play more minutes at a max level=Sweets producing more on both ends.

We'll see. I doubt it. Skiles' opinion is the one that matters, and so far he's gone away from Sweetney.

Brand new season, whole new life for everyone. Skiles isnt as stubborn to throw someone in the doghouse after they have been working hard to be your type of player. Your right though, only time will tell, but PJ=career mediocre role player, now add old and worn down to that, Sweets has the stuff to be much more than that.

Tell that to Tyson Chandler...

PJ has been more than a "mediocre role player." The guy has career averages of 9.4 points, 8 rebounds, and about a steal and a block a game. That's a passable starter or a good bench player. I don't know where you're getting the worn down part either, he's still a competent player. Sweetney isn't going to do much more than PJ has in his career, he's just too limited in too many areas (height, athleticism, and defense chief among them).

Under ten points and 8 rebounds for a big is mediocre. No it's not even close to terrible, but it's certianly not very good. Sweets takes too much flack for his D, he gets rolled off of occasionally, but he doesnt get backed down, stays under good position near the hoop, and provides good help. Like I said his footspeed isnt what one would want in a lock down defender, but his was good(really good on O though, I wonder why it didnt translate), and with weight loss it will get better. There's not nearly as big a difference between PJ and Sweets as everyone is hyping it up to be. The added blocks and strength make up for anything you will get from PJ now. Seriously, PJ=shadow of his former average self, he's not going to be this great defensive stopper, not even close, I'll take Sweets' scoring and strength while giving up little(if anything) on the other side of the court, please.

So, you're sayin PJ Brown is equal to, or at most marginally better than Sweetney on defense?