Watto: How are you going to pay for all this?
Qui-Gon Jinn: I have twenty thousand Republic dataries.
Watto: Republic credits? Republic credits are no good out here. I need something more real.
Qui-Gon Jinn: I don't have anything else
[waves hand]
Qui-Gon Jinn: but credits will do fine.
Watto: No, they won't-a.
[Qui-Gon waves his hand more firmly]
Qui-Gon Jinn: Credits will do fine.
Watto: No, they won't-a. What? You think you're some kind of Jedi, waving your hand around like that? I'm a Toydarian, mind tricks don't work on me. Only money. No money, no parts, no deal!

just the right amount of gay?

I think this team is about where realistic thinkers thought this team would be. I think the people who were thinking 55-60 wins were on something, even before the season began. This team has to get a 20-10 guy in the block before you can call them a real championship contender. There is just no way around that.

So, yes, Gasol is already a premier player in this league, but let's not kid ourselves about what we'd be giving up. In Gasol's best, non-injured season, last year, he put up 20 and 9 at age 25. Just to take 1 of our 2 guys as an example, Luol Deng this season is putting up 18 and 7, and he's 21 (and Gasol played 4 more minutes/game last year than Deng is playing this season). And on top of that, Gasol has missed significant chunks of time 2 of the last 3 seasons, while Deng has not (only the 1 wrist injury), and personality-wise, Deng as far as I know doesn't have a habit of mouthing off about his team to non-U.S. newspapers.

So no, you're not throwing away your future by getting rid of Deng, but let's make no bones about what we'd be doing there; we'd be giving up a younger, cheaper player of nearly equal numbers for a guy who is slightly better, but who would fit in better with what pieces the team already has. And in the process, to make that deal work, we'd also be throwing in an expiring, $8 million contract, which as we all know is damn valuable in the NBA today.

In other words, there's only so much I'm willing to give up here. Yes, the Celtics can offer up Al Jefferson, who is a damn good player and is doing 14/10.5 this year, BUT, the Celtics can not offer up any expiring contract of enough value to make that deal work. To get Gasol, with the cap figures, the Celtics would have to include either Wally Szczerbiak or Theo Ratliff, who are signed for 3 and 2 years at high numbers, which means that the Celtics offer up no cap relief along with Jefferson (unless the Celts included Paul Pierce).

All I'm saying here is...yes, Gasol would be a good fit for how the Bulls are built and what their needs are. I just don't think the Bulls should help the Grizzlies make themselves a major NBA contender if the Bulls are also helping them get out from under a major contract. If, for example, Deng and Brown were included, then no, I don't want to part with the Knicks pick, and no, I don't want to part with TT, because I don't want to make the Grizzlies better by having them wind up with a long-term win on a deal. Duhon, 2nd round picks, the 08 first rounder ok we'll talk, but with the fact that the Bulls have all 3 things rebuilding teams want (expiring contract, draft picks, tons of young, cheap players) the Bulls do not have to give up everything in the world to put the best offer on the table.

Couple things:

1) We seem to be a lot more willing to deal Gordon than Deng, which throws those statistical comparisons off a bit.

2) Gasol is averaging 20.3 and 8.2 in 33 minutes per game this season, which are both more than Deng and in fewer minutes. Plus there's also blocks to factor in, which is a major difference. The other issue is that Gasol seems to have a higher impact on a team's win-loss record, as he's carried some weak Memphis teams into the playoffs in a stronger Western Conference.

3) If it were knee or back injuries that bugged Gasol I might be worried, but there is nothing you can do about a broken foot, and he's showing no ill effects.

4) I was mistaken, I thought Ratliff's contract was expiring this year. However, it is covered by insurance right now, so though it would count against the cap they wouldn't be paying him. The much bigger value in that trade is getting Jefferson.

5) The $8 mil expiring contract only has value if you're over the cap and you're going to do something with it. The Bulls are not in big cap trouble (and won't be thanks to the Bird rule), and you're not going to be able to do much better than Gasol with that money. It's other main value is in facilitating trades, which is what is being proposed.

6) Major NBA contenders? Have you looked at their record recently? Let's not kid ourselves, this trade would hurt Memphis in the win-loss column for the next few years. You saw how bad Memphis was without Gasol, Gordon or Deng and a late 1st draft pick or two isn't going to drastically change that unless they get really lucky and/or scout really well on the draft picks. The Knicks' pick doesn't appear to be on the table in recent proposals, likely because we probably can't trade it, and so far we appear to be unwilling to deal Thomas. I don't see Gordon or Deng, an expiring contract, and two late 1st's as an obscene price to pay. Even if we have to include Thomas, he's still got a long way to go before fufilling his potential. The killer would be if they got Oden or Durant, and we have no control over that.

No, cuz I dont even really like Hinrich, except for his scrappy defense.

Why don't you like Hinrich? Im just curious..

That's funny b/c I was saying the exact same thing earlier tonight about Kirk being the Bull's Rex. Although he is not that bad, he is inconsistent and he is not the real option as a point guard just like Rex isn't the real option as a QB. Kirk has been playing better lately but he still isn't a game changer.

Did anyone see that horrible backcourt pass? That looked like something out of the Chris Duhon playbook.

How about the Bulls keep everyone and if they don't get a top 2 pick in the draft, they trade Tyrus or Gordon with their pick and get Kevin Durant. The guy is going to be sick. Has T-Mac potential or better written all over him.

LMAO@any team with the #1 and 2 picks in the draft trading them for Gordon, Tyrus or anybody.

Totally true, any GM that trades the rights to one of those guys should be fired the next day. Oden would be a much better fit anyways, he's exactly what we need.

you can forget about getting gasol now that nocioni is hurt, thats all i keep reading, so maybe it was a blessing in desguise that noc got hurt, bc i really dont want to see gasol in a bulls uniform, we would be giving up too much, and i like our team as is.

Im hoping its a blessing in disguise....

That's no blessing in disguise. It's easy to see that the Bulls are not a championship contender. They won't be a contender until they get a good PF/C that can score down low, or until they get a true all-star go to scorer/playmaker. (A Lebron/Wade type) That's not likely to happen soon, so their best option is trading for a PF that is a good post player. I think we can get Gasol without giving up tons of talent. It might take 1 of our key players and a future 1st rounder but it's worth the risk.

yes we do need a down low scorer, but we should keep our core, and wait till the draft and adresss it, it is suposed to be a deep draft.

I would do the deal that apparently the Grizz are down too. We lose Gordon and Sef, but at the same time only give up a 2009 draft pick which isn't too bad. It will definitely be interesting to see if we would pull off this sort of deal without Noc because my guess is we probably countered or would have countered with Noc, PJ Brown, Sef and an 09 pick.

I hate giving up Sef and Gordon in a package because if we move Gordon, Sef is the guy that would get extended minutes. However, if after making this deal we were able to swing Sweetney and something for a SG than I wouldn't have a problem (with Deng/Noc eventually playing a lot of the 2/3).

I would be a lot happier about that structure of deal than about the structure of any deal moving Deng. Quick question worth asking; so if we were to lose Gordon + Sef, or Gordon on his own, can someone give me a suggestion of someone out there who might be able to replace little Ben that we might have a shot at? Specifically, does anyone know of some good, quick, penetrating shooting guards who might be available with a #10 pick in the draft, or who we might have a shot at by trading a #10 pick?