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> Ben Gordon, Where are all the haters at?
eddog2
post Nov 15 2008, 01:49 AM
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So, it took a while for me to come on here and throw all the Kirk lovers/BG bashers under the bus. I hope you can all recognize how special BG is and how vital he is to our offense. BG has been simply sensational since he started getting big time minutes (and since Kirk got hurt). Over his last 5 games he's averaging 27.4 ppg, 4.4 apg, shooting 53.3% from the field, 44.8% from the arc.

And I do not what to hear spiff about wins and losses because other then Rose nobody has helped BG & the Bulls win games. I really hope we deal Kirk for Harrington or some other PF/C. Or I hope we deal him for an expiring contract. There will be a handful of really good free agents both this off-season and next off-season so I hope Paxson places us in a position to maximize on that.
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Wanne
post Nov 15 2008, 02:41 AM
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I'd share your enthusiasm if he wasn't such a selfish bastard...
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Chicago Bulls Fr...
post Nov 15 2008, 11:30 AM
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I said it before the season that BG would have a great year thanks in part to Derrick Rose, so far, it looks like I'm right. One thing he's doing now compared to last year is he's taking it to the basket and getting contact, instead of just coming off screens or settling for a stupid contested jumper.
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Steve9347
post Nov 15 2008, 12:09 PM
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QUOTE (Chicago Bulls Franchise @ Nov 15 2008, 11:30 AM) *
I said it before the season that BG would have a great year thanks in part to Derrick Rose, so far, it looks like I'm right. One thing he's doing now compared to last year is he's taking it to the basket and getting contact, instead of just coming off screens or settling for a stupid contested jumper.

His great season so far really doesn't have anything to do with Derrick Rose. He's just hogging the ball, but it works, so that's fine. It should be fun to see how much money he gets as an FA with some shitbomb team. I personally have a hard time loving him because I know he's as good as gone.
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MB33
post Nov 15 2008, 12:30 PM
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BG is here to shoot the ball without him i dunno what our record would be the 1st 8 games lets hope he stays consistent and improves on the defensive end even though taller guards will post him up.He needs to just know that he aint the pg and let rose dictate the offense.Bottom line again we live and die by the jump shots i would rather keep BG than kirk because he can pour it on in the offensive end.
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ZoomSlowik
post Nov 15 2008, 05:38 PM
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He's on a hot streak, not like we've never seen that before. His shooting has never been the issue. But as Steve said, he's good as gone unless something drastically changes. We're not going to be able to add anyone significant though even if Gordon and Gooden walk, we'd still have to move someone to clear cap space (or you can change the names around, bottom line is 3 people have to go for us to have space this off-season). As long as he's here though he has to start, our other guards suck, and I've said that since before the season started.
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sport1016
post Nov 17 2008, 11:17 AM
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BG's problem is his biggest weakness is his biggest strength. He decides that he's going to dominate a game, going to shoot no matter what. When he's on, he's one of if not the biggest reason we'll win (see the dallas game). When he's not, he has the same poor shot selection and he can blow a game for us.

His turnovers are down this year. This is no doubt due to the number of times he drives to the hoop and either makes a shot or gets a foul called instead of turning it over.

But he almost blew the indiana game for the exact same reasons that he won us the dallas game. Every time we started to pull away, he'd start launching bad jumpers and driving into an overcrowded lane. He kept them in the game.

This year he has to start though, because he will win some games for us all by himself. It's just too bad he can't restrain himself on an off night.

I think when it comes down to it, everyone on the team already knows Rose is the best player on the team, and they're figuring out how to play off of him (look at Noc, who's thriving, and Luol is coming around). BG, though, still acts like he is our MJ/Kobe/Tmac/whatever. Not good for the team.

I never thought I'd be glad to see Larry Hughes. Never. But...
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Steve9347
post Nov 17 2008, 11:29 AM
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QUOTE (sport1016 @ Nov 17 2008, 11:17 AM) *
I never thought I'd be glad to see Larry Hughes. Never. But...

Blasphemy!

Nice post though... as I said in a text to Edwin (eddog) during the Mavs game, who immediately declared Gordon the best player on the Bulls and said, and I quote "F*** Rose"... Gordon needs to learn his place and stop hogging the ball.
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TeaLeafReaderII
post Nov 17 2008, 02:10 PM
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This thread reminds me of the "told you so" post I was going to make about Tyrus Thomas after his offseason, preseason, and first game against the bucks... I wisely decided it was premature. Hopefully, this thread is not.
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Balta1701-B
post Nov 17 2008, 03:38 PM
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QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Nov 15 2008, 03:38 PM) *
He's on a hot streak, not like we've never seen that before. His shooting has never been the issue. But as Steve said, he's good as gone unless something drastically changes. We're not going to be able to add anyone significant though even if Gordon and Gooden walk, we'd still have to move someone to clear cap space (or you can change the names around, bottom line is 3 people have to go for us to have space this off-season). As long as he's here though he has to start, our other guards suck, and I've said that since before the season started.

You know? I wouldn't say that just yet. I'd say "He's as good as gone if someone decides he's worth more to them than we can offer him." There's still a reason why they couldn't pull off a sign and trade with him last offseason, right now, there isn't a team out there that has the cap space and will to offer Gordon more than we already have.
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ZoomSlowik
post Nov 17 2008, 03:53 PM
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QUOTE (Balta1701-B @ Nov 17 2008, 03:38 PM) *
You know? I wouldn't say that just yet. I'd say "He's as good as gone if someone decides he's worth more to them than we can offer him." There's still a reason why they couldn't pull off a sign and trade with him last offseason, right now, there isn't a team out there that has the cap space and will to offer Gordon more than we already have.


If you believe Gordon and his agent, the Bulls pulled the 5 or 6 year deal in the $50 mil range just before the season. If that's true, it seems highly unlikely that he'll be back. I can't imagine that he'd sign for less than that unless absolutely forced to (and even then it might be elsewhere), and historically he's asked for a fair amount more.
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Balta1701-B
post Nov 17 2008, 04:38 PM
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QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Nov 17 2008, 01:53 PM) *
If you believe Gordon and his agent, the Bulls pulled the 5 or 6 year deal in the $50 mil range just before the season. If that's true, it seems highly unlikely that he'll be back. I can't imagine that he'd sign for less than that unless absolutely forced to (and even then it might be elsewhere), and historically he's asked for a fair amount more.

I would bet that if next offseason, he came back to the Bulls and said he'd accept a similar offer, they'd work something out.

And I really still have trouble seeing how some other team is going to offer him vastly more than that.
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ZoomSlowik
post Nov 17 2008, 05:42 PM
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QUOTE (Balta1701-B @ Nov 17 2008, 04:38 PM) *
I would bet that if next offseason, he came back to the Bulls and said he'd accept a similar offer, they'd work something out.

And I really still have trouble seeing how some other team is going to offer him vastly more than that.


I never said that anyone would give him more than that, however that suggests that the Bulls don't really want him back all that bad if it really happened, considering it'd keep them under the luxury tax. At least to me it seems like the two sides are nowhere near the same page and some bad blood might be developing.
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Balta1701-B
post Nov 17 2008, 05:51 PM
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QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Nov 17 2008, 03:42 PM) *
I never said that anyone would give him more than that, however that suggests that the Bulls don't really want him back all that bad if it really happened, considering it'd keep them under the luxury tax. At least to me it seems like the two sides are nowhere near the same page and some bad blood might be developing.

Aside from Memphis who we can probably assume isn't spending money...before the trades hit, who else do we think might be talking about cap room this offseason?
QUOTE
Given current projections, five teams -- the Oklahoma City Thunder, the Memphis Grizzlies, the Portland Trail Blazers, the Miami Heat and the Indiana Pacers -- will have significant money to spend in 2009.

Given a projected $62 million cap next year, the Thunder could have roughly $25-$30 million in cap space next summer.

The Grizzlies could get somewhere between $18 million and $24 million below the cap, depending on what they decide to do with Hakim Warrick.

The Blazers could be anywhere from $15-$32 million under the cap, depending on whose contracts they decide to renounce. The three key players will be Channing Frye, Steve Blake and Travis Outlaw. If they let those three go (along with Ike Diogu and Martell Webster), they could be awash in cash. But there's one fairly big caveat: The Blazers are counting on not having Darius Miles' $9 million salary on the books. However, if he plays 10 games for the Celtics this season, his salary goes back on the Blazers' books, taking away a big chunk of their free-agent cash.

The Pacers could be around $11 million under the cap if they end up renouncing all of their free agents except Danny Granger. They could get even further below the cap if they find a way to move Jamaal Tinsley.

And the Heat could be around $10 million under if they let Shawn Marion walk at the end of the season.

Two other teams will also have a shot at some cap room, depending on how things play out. The Bobcats would be roughly $10 million under if they were to renounce the contracts of Raymond Felton, Sean May and Adam Morrison -- but that seems highly unlikely. The Wolves could get around $9 million under if they were to renounce the contract of Rashad McCants.
See anyone there who we think might go hard after Gordon with more than we can offer?
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ZoomSlowik
post Nov 17 2008, 09:27 PM
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You obviously didn't read my last post, or are taking it in a totally different manner. It's not only an issue of who's going to give him how much money, it's an issue of whether or not both sides want to come to terms on a long term extension. It doesn't really matter what other money is out there if the Bulls don't want him back or he doesn't want to return. This situation appears to be going in that direction if it hasn't already.

And since you're bringing up the teams, Miami looks like a nice fit to me. He doesn't have to be the primary ball-handler, he can guard point guards, and they can use a big time jump-shooter. There was even an old thread about Wade talking up Gordon a while back. It wouldn't be the 14 mil he's been rumored to want, but it's somewhere he might perceive as a better situation and there's no income tax in Florida. It's WAY too early to worry about it though, things can change drastically.
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