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TalkBulls Forums _ Bulls Talk _ 2012 Pre-Draft Talk
Posted by: FromWayDowntown May 25 2012, 12:13 PM
Soooooo........who ya got for Da Bulls?
Do we want to do a Mock Draft?
What do you guys and gals think??
Posted by: scs787 May 26 2012, 01:11 PM
I'd like to see CJ and either Korver or Brewer (I'd prefer Brew) traded this off season(For cap purposes). Maybe packaged for a mid first rounder or sold separately for a couple picks....For the sake of arguement lets say packaged to the Celtics for #21. (and a future pick)
Looking at some mocks I'd go with:
#21 Tony Wroten PG Washington
Thought about going with Tyshawn Taylor here but he seems to be a mental midget. Still wouldnt hate the Taylor pick though....A PG that can create shots for others is what I want
#29 Doron Lamb SG Kentucky
Quite a few options here at SG, I think Lamb might be the best of the bunch. John Jenkins might be more of a Thibs guy with his defensive ability. Would also be ok with Orlando Johnson here... A SG with 3 point range is what im lookin for.
I wanna see Hinrich brought in with the MLE and go it with this squad...
Hinrich/Wroten
Rip/Lamb
Korver/Butler
Boozer/Gibson
Noah/Asik
Posted by: ZoomSlowik May 29 2012, 12:03 PM
Definitely need a potential scorer at the 2-guard with one of the picks. To me, you can go one of two routes with that.
One would be to get an elite shooter that doesn't need to dominate the ball and can make people pay when they collapse on Rose (assuming he's his old self when he returns 
). Doron Lamb and John Jenkins would definitely fit there as scs mentioned. I like Lamb slightly better because I feel like Jenkins is strictly a catch-and-shoot guy while Lamb has at least some ball-handling ability and is a bit quicker. Both are somewhat one-dimensional though and lack size.
The other is to go with someone that's a bit more well-rounded, a guy that can defend, create his own shot a bit more and still be a threat on the wing. This might be a better fit to take some pressure off Rose and get some insurance in case he isn't quite as explosive attacking the rim.
Unfortunately, I think a lot of those guys will be gone, guys like Dion Waiters (explosive off the dribble, but small and streaky J), Jeremy Lamb (great length and solid mid-range, streaky 3 and inconsistent) and Terrence Ross (great athlete, decent shot, sort of a work in progress). Guys like Austin Rivers and Will Barton might be there, but they're not quite as interesting.
Posted by: FromWayDowntown May 30 2012, 03:20 PM
I'd like to see a 2 guard that can get his shot off.
Posted by: madisonsmadhouse Jun 21 2012, 01:20 PM
Jenkins seems to be a popular guy on the mocks, that is if the Bulls can't move up.
Posted by: Jake Jun 21 2012, 01:46 PM
Jenkins is interesting, seems like Doron Lamb is definitely a better option but I don't think he'll fall nearly that far. The Bulls need to figure out if moving up in the draft is going to be worth it...not sure if the players are any better at 5-10 than 29. Obviously the odds are against you that low in the round, but it seems like we're looking at a bunch of players that are not distinguishing themselves after the first 2 or 3
Posted by: WHarris1 Jun 21 2012, 01:52 PM
Some of the names I have read quite commonly:
Doron Lamb, Jeff Taylor, John Jenkins, Tyshawn Taylor
I'm a big fan of Doron Lamb he does a lot of good things on offense that could really help this team off the bench and potentially as a starter down the line.
Posted by: Jake Jun 21 2012, 01:53 PM
Doron Lamb, Jeff Taylor, John Jenkins, Tyshawn Taylor
I'm a big fan of Doron Lamb he does a lot of good things on offense that could really help this team off the bench and potentially as a starter down the line.
Do you think he'll make it to 29? Would trading up to 5 be too high?
Nice sig btw
Posted by: madisonsmadhouse Jun 21 2012, 01:55 PM
Draft side note, root for Jarrod Jones from Ball State to get drafted. He is from my hometown, and a really good kid. He has a shot at going in the end of the second round, but may not get drafted. Europe or the D-League are the most likely for him. He has had workouts in Sacto, Indy, Houston, and a couple of other places.
Posted by: WHarris1 Jun 21 2012, 01:55 PM
Nice sig btw
DraftExpress currently has Doron Lamb going with the 5th pick of the 2nd round, 35 overall.
NBADraft.net (less credible, but still something) has Lamb to the Bulls at 29.
I think from ~25 and down is where he might realistically fall.
Posted by: Jake Jun 21 2012, 02:04 PM
NBADraft.net (less credible, but still something) has Lamb to the Bulls at 29.
I think from ~25 and down is where he might realistically fall.
I didn't realize that with the praise he was getting on ESPNU's broadcast of the Chicago Draft Workouts. Keeping that #29 pick might get us a useful player then.
Who could we get at #5 if that trade happens? Harrison Barnes is the hot name, but I'm not sure if he'll be there and I'm not sure if he's worth it.
Posted by: WHarris1 Jun 21 2012, 02:07 PM
Who could we get at #5 if that trade happens? Harrison Barnes is the hot name, but I'm not sure if he'll be there and I'm not sure if he's worth it.
If the Bulls were to get 5 there's a number of ways the draft could fall.
It seems pretty likely that 2-5 ends up being (in an unknown order): Barnes, Beal, Kidd-Gilchrist, Thomas Robinson. Any and all of them would fit with the Bulls to a decent extent, assuming Deng is dealt to acquire the pick. Beal would seem like a somewhat ideal fit next to Rose given his overall offensive game.
However, the entire top of the draft after Anthony Davis seems wildly unpredictable with pundits and talking heads having very little idea of where those 4 players are going to fall between the 2nd and 5th picks.
Posted by: madisonsmadhouse Jun 21 2012, 02:22 PM
Who could we get at #5 if that trade happens? Harrison Barnes is the hot name, but I'm not sure if he'll be there and I'm not sure if he's worth it.
Draft deals are done with the stipulation that the player they want will be there in the draft. Otherwise they don't happen.
Posted by: Jake Jun 21 2012, 02:27 PM
It seems pretty likely that 2-5 ends up being (in an unknown order): Barnes, Beal, Kidd-Gilchrist, Thomas Robinson. Any and all of them would fit with the Bulls to a decent extent, assuming Deng is dealt to acquire the pick. Beal would seem like a somewhat ideal fit next to Rose given his overall offensive game.
However, the entire top of the draft after Anthony Davis seems wildly unpredictable with pundits and talking heads having very little idea of where those 4 players are going to fall between the 2nd and 5th picks.
How much do we want to draft a PF given that we're somewhat "loaded" there as it is? I know you could simply amnesty Boozer, but PF is the one position I don't mind passing on. If we got a pick like the 10, I still think any team would be crazy not to draft Meyers Leonard (especially with a coach like Thibs who will keep Meyers' head out of his ass). Then you could let go of a guy like Asik who only has limited value as a bench player anyway.
That only makes too much sense.
Posted by: 2nd_city_saint787 Jun 21 2012, 09:36 PM
Nice sig btw
Who could we get at #5 if that trade happens? Harrison Barnes is the hot name, but I'm not sure if he'll be there and I'm not sure if he's worth it.
You sir, are thinking of Jeremy Lamb, he's the one that's going in the top 10.
Posted by: Quinarvy Jun 21 2012, 10:38 PM
I really wish we could get J. Lamb or Ross. They'd both compliment Rose immensely.
Posted by: madisonsmadhouse Jun 22 2012, 02:40 PM
NBA draft.net has the Bulls with Deron Lamb UK
http://nbadraft.net/2012mock_draft
Posted by: Jake Jun 22 2012, 07:48 PM
http://nbadraft.net/2012mock_draft
I'd be happy with that. That site is a nice resource too.
Posted by: Quinarvy Jun 22 2012, 10:06 PM
I'd be happy with Lamb.
I also want Marcus Denmon as an undrafted FA. Kid could be a BG/Jason Terry in the NBA. Great spot up shooter, ice in his veins, and plays D.
I know I say that as a Mizzou homer, but of all the players I saw last year: Robinson, White, English (who I was lab partners with), Taylor, etc. Denmon impressed me the most. Yes, over Robinson who I'd love for the Bulls to snag if they move up to 5 and Barnes and Beal are gone. The kid single handedly defeated Kansas with some just flat out ridiculous shots. They knew he was getting the ball. With a man in his face, he just rose up and sunk a beyond NBA three.
Posted by: Jake Jun 23 2012, 09:20 AM
I also want Marcus Denmon as an undrafted FA. Kid could be a BG/Jason Terry in the NBA. Great spot up shooter, ice in his veins, and plays D.
I know I say that as a Mizzou homer, but of all the players I saw last year: Robinson, White, English (who I was lab partners with), Taylor, etc. Denmon impressed me the most. Yes, over Robinson who I'd love for the Bulls to snag if they move up to 5 and Barnes and Beal are gone. The kid single handedly defeated Kansas with some just flat out ridiculous shots. They knew he was getting the ball. With a man in his face, he just rose up and sunk a beyond NBA three.
I can't say I saw enough of Denmon to really know if he'd be worth a shot, but I wonder what it means that we seem eager to get many players that are predicted to go late in the 1st round in a supposedly very thin NBA draft.
Either the popular talent evaluation is sh!#, or we're missing something because I like Deron Lamb almost as much as anyone at his position.
Posted by: Quinarvy Jun 23 2012, 12:48 PM
Either the popular talent evaluation is sh!#, or we're missing something because I like Deron Lamb almost as much as anyone at his position.
I've never seen this described as a very thin draft. I've always heard it described as deep with talent and role players. Superstar talent towards the top, but likely only Davis becomes a superstar. The rest of top few picks have the talent to. Then some guys who could become all-stars (not perennial) in the right situation. Then just deep with role players.
Also, Doron Lamb*
But here's a video of Denmon.
I thought both would be clear misses when he took them.
Though he is responsible for 20% of Missouri's offensive possessions and 22.6% of Missouri's total field goal attempts, he has continued to play the same brand of extremely efficient basketball, shooting 53% from 2-point range and 42% for 3, while coughing the ball up on just 9% of his possessions and averaging only 1.3 turnovers per 40 minutes pace adjusted. This is particularly impressive given his expanded role as Missouri's primary scoring option.
On film, Denmon continues to excel as a perimeter shooter with his feet set, both guarded and unguarded, and he sports a picture perfect release with range that extends well beyond the NBA three-point line. Only 20% of his shots come off pull-up jumpers, demonstrating the narrowly tailored role Denmon plays for Missouri, as well as his patience and shot-selection—which helps explain why he's such an efficient player.
Despite looking slightly more aggressive looking to take his man off the dribble, Denmon remains a limited shot-creator due to his average size, strength, explosiveness and ball-handling skills. Very opportunistic in transition, off cuts, or on straight line drives, Denmon is able to keep defenses honest just enough to not be labeled as a one-dimensional player.
Denmon certainly has solid tools and fundamentals on the defensive end of the floor, where he guards every perimeter position. He displays good lateral quickness and quick hands, but at 6'3 with a wiry 185-pound frame and an average wingspan, it remains to be seen whether he can guard NBA-sized shooting guards on a consistent basis.
Despite coming off of an excellent senior season, Denmon still has work to do in terms of carving out a role for himself at the NBA level. Though he possesses excellent intangibles as an extremely tough, smart, hard-working and winning attitude, he is still not remotely a point guard; remains extremely undersized for the shooting guard position; and lacks the elite athleticism to compensate. He has improved his offensive arsenal as a senior, however, continuing to prove himself as an extremely efficient perimeter scoring threat, but will need to fall into the right situation in the NBA to stick and make an impact. Denmon should have plenty of opportunities in the NCAA Tournament, and during the pre-draft process to continue to prove to scouts that he has what it takes to fill a niche as a sparkplug scorer in the NBA.
From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz1ydwQ6J2W
http://www.draftexpress.com
Basically, I can see him filling a Korver role as the main shooter off the bench.
Posted by: ZoomSlowik Jun 23 2012, 09:18 PM
That seems to be fairly accurate. Everyone else in the top-10 has some flaws so you can't say it's a stellar draft, but there are a number of guys that can turn into starting caliber players. Getting someone as athletic as either Jones outside of the top-10 sounds pretty good to me.
Posted by: Jake Jun 24 2012, 11:04 AM
If you have the 5 pick, which SF do you want to see fall to you - Barnes or Kidd-Gilchrist?
The common thought I suppose is that Barnes has more upside while Kidd-Gilchrist is a "safer" pick. I don't know that either fits the team better, though I think Kidd-Gilchrist is a better defender. Neither shoots the ball well from deep or creates their own shot well, which are things that we'd ideally be getting from that position (or at least an impact acquisition in general). Kidd-Gilchrist may fit in better when we run the court and I think I like his driving ability in the half-court better than the inconsistent mid-range game of Barnes.
Posted by: Quinarvy Jun 24 2012, 12:56 PM
The common thought I suppose is that Barnes has more upside while Kidd-Gilchrist is a "safer" pick. I don't know that either fits the team better, though I think Kidd-Gilchrist is a better defender. Neither shoots the ball well from deep or creates their own shot well, which are things that we'd ideally be getting from that position (or at least an impact acquisition in general). Kidd-Gilchrist may fit in better when we run the court and I think I like his driving ability in the half-court better than the inconsistent mid-range game of Barnes.
Barnes is a good shooter though and one of his skills is that he can create his own shot, though limited. He can improve on both, but those are his skills. And while MKG will be a great defender, Barnes has the tools and work ethic to become a Deng-esque defender under Thibs.
I'd love to do this crazy fantasy:
Bulls In: #5, Garcia, #16/#17, #25
Bulls Out: Deng, Cats Pick, #29, $3M , Asik (in principle), Future Pick
Deng is sent to the Kings for #5 and Garcia, used on Barnes.
Cats Pick + Asik for #16 (Rockets) or #17 (Mavs). Used on Terrence Ross.
#29 + Future Pick for #25 from Grizzlies. Used on Melo or Ezeli.
Gives you:
PG - FA/Watson
SG - Rip/Ross/Garcia
SF - Barnes/Butler/Garcia
PF - Boozer/Taj
C - Noah/Melo or Ezeli
Now, this would make 2012-2013 a lost season unless Ross and Barnes make a crazy impact right away. But then we get this roster a year or two down the road:
PG - Rose
SG - Ross
SF - Barnes/Butler
PF - Mirotic/Taj
C - Noah/Melo-Ezeli
Two players would make a nice chunk of change off the bat: Rose and Noah
Two players would make decent change: Mirotic and Taj
Four players on rookie scale deals: Ross, Barnes, Butler, and Melo/Ezeli.
That leaves you plenty of cap to fill in holes.
...
But seriously, I'd love to walk away with Barnes and Ross in this draft.
Posted by: Jake Jun 24 2012, 12:58 PM
If I could have a second pick in the Top 15, I'd draft Meyers Leonard in a heartbeat and say goodbye to Omer forever
Posted by: Quinarvy Jun 24 2012, 01:03 PM
I feel Leonard will be the second biggest bust of this draft, behind Drummond.
Plus, we need someone who can become a starting SG, not someone to backup Rose's BFF.
Posted by: Jake Jun 24 2012, 01:10 PM
Plus, we need someone who can become a starting SG, not someone to backup Rose's BFF.
Unless his attitude gets worse (I don't think it will from my personal interactions with him), he's at worse a Joakim Noah type player. The difference? He's taller, more athletic, and has incredible offensive skills for a college sophomore post player. I think had he spent another year in college he would have been a Top 3 kind of pick...assuming Groce would have coached him.
Posted by: Quinarvy Jun 24 2012, 02:45 PM
I just think he's incredibly lazy. The anti-Noah.
Posted by: Jake Jun 24 2012, 04:28 PM
I don't think he's lazy at all. It's like Alex Rios -- dumb sometimes, yes. Lazy, no. I blame his coach for that.
Posted by: ZoomSlowik Jun 24 2012, 05:36 PM
Definitely Barnes over Gilchrist. MKG might be a better player, but he doesn't have any way to generate offense right now. Barnes can struggle with that as well, but he can at least shoot reasonably well.
As for Leonard, he strikes me as a backup center. He's not the most physical or consistent player in college and that's going to get tougher in the league. He has potential though.
Posted by: ZoomSlowik Jun 25 2012, 02:14 PM
The more scouting videos I watch on Draft Express, the more weird this draft starts to look to me. Every pick after Davis gives you reasons to be reasonably happy as well as reasons to be kind of disappointed. So many somewhat intriguing players with so many flaws.
Posted by: Jake Jun 25 2012, 03:51 PM
Makes you think there will be some stars, it's just terribly difficult to predict which will be.
Posted by: ZoomSlowik Jun 25 2012, 05:49 PM
Pretty much. It wouldn't surprise me if someone like Terrence Jones is better than a couple of people that go in the top-5.
Posted by: Jake Jun 25 2012, 05:52 PM
Or Doron Lamb
Posted by: madisonsmadhouse Jun 26 2012, 06:52 AM
Plus, we need someone who can become a starting SG, not someone to backup Rose's BFF.
I agree. He screams Euro big man, not NBA big man.
Posted by: madisonsmadhouse Jun 26 2012, 06:53 AM
That means getting the right kids matched with the right coach, and the right system, is bigger than ever.
Posted by: Jake Jun 26 2012, 07:50 AM
How a guy who scores most of his points from post moves is a Euro big man is beyond me
Posted by: Quinarvy Jun 26 2012, 09:12 AM
Pau Gasol...?
But I think it's because "Euro big man" means "Soft" to most people.
Posted by: WHarris1 Jun 26 2012, 09:56 AM
I don't think of a typical Euro big man possessing the elite athleticism that Leonard has.
I saw a tweet the other day where an NBA assistant GM said, "If Meyers Leonard were black he would be the number 2 pick in the draft"
Posted by: Quinarvy Jun 26 2012, 10:43 AM
I saw a tweet the other day where an NBA assistant GM said, "If Meyers Leonard were black he would be the number 2 pick in the draft"
Maybe it's my dislike of U of I coloring my vision. Then again, one of my best friends goes to Illinois, talked non-stop about how dreamy she thought Leonard was, then after a few games couldn't stand him, because she said he looked so lazy when he should have been dominating out there.
'
Same reason I don't like Austin Rivers in this draft...relied too much on athleticism.
And I might agree with that comment, since I think Drummond will be an epic bust.
Posted by: 2nd_city_saint787 Jun 26 2012, 10:54 AM
You cant teach athleticism...I see Leonard as Noah lite. If the Bulls were in a position to grab him and they filled their other holes Id grab him in a heartbeat and let Asik and his butter fingers go elsewhere.
Posted by: Quinarvy Jun 26 2012, 12:26 PM
While you can't teach athleticism, it's still really hard to teach work ethic.
Posted by: 2nd_city_saint787 Jun 26 2012, 12:43 PM
He says he models his game after Noah, I think if you put him on the same team with Jo then Jos work ethic will rub off on him.
Posted by: rockren Jun 26 2012, 01:23 PM
Rivers wasn't in a great situation at Duke last year IMO....Duke was as slow and clumsy as I've seen them in years. I do feel he would be the Bulls pick at #8 if indeed the Raps took Deng for the pick.
If Bryan Colangelo had a clue he would jump at the chance to get Deng for the #8 as Toronto needs another rookie like they need another hole in the head. However- this is the same GM who dismissed Jo Noah and draft picks for Bosh years ago. How he is still employed in Toronto is beyond me.
Posted by: 2nd_city_saint787 Jun 26 2012, 01:38 PM
If Bryan Colangelo had a clue he would jump at the chance to get Deng for the #8 as Toronto needs another rookie like they need another hole in the head. However- this is the same GM who dismissed Jo Noah and draft picks for Bosh years ago. How he is still employed in Toronto is beyond me.
What is this rumor now?? Just Deng straight up for the #8?? Id like it if we got Calderon back too, then instead of using the MLE on a PG give Brandon Roy a shot.
Based on the nbadraft.net mock I think I'd go with Terrance Ross over anyone else. In the above situation we're not getting Dengs replacement so Ross, a guy that can play the 2 and the 3 would be the guy I go with and hope either him or Butler steps up and can be a good starter.
Posted by: madisonsmadhouse Jun 26 2012, 01:41 PM
Based on the nbadraft.net mock I think I'd go with Terrance Ross over anyone else. In the above situation we're not getting Dengs replacement so Ross, a guy that can play the 2 and the 3 would be the guy I go with and hope either him or Butler steps up and can be a good starter.
Are the Raptors that far under the cap? Ideally totally moving Dengs deal, or at least moving him for an expiring deal would be the best thing financially for the Bulls.
Posted by: 2nd_city_saint787 Jun 26 2012, 01:50 PM
The NBA trade machines not working for me ATM and I dont feel like doing the added research on the cap number. Just to feel better about the trade Id wanna get an expiring contract back that helps us next year, Jose Calderon fits that bill perfectly.
Posted by: Balta1701-B Jun 26 2012, 01:56 PM
The Raptors are sitting at $41 million currently and would be at $45.2 million if they extend a qualifying offer to Jerryd Bayless. If the cap is close to $59 million they might be able to absorb Deng completely. However, they could also clear space by giving the Bulls Calderon's deal, which expires post 2013 ($10 million, they're under the cap so they can pocket the difference).
Posted by: madisonsmadhouse Jun 26 2012, 02:05 PM
Calderon would be a great deal to get back as it would give them a real PG with Rose out.
Posted by: rockren Jun 26 2012, 04:15 PM
The issue is the Raps wouldn't have a PG if they dealt Calderon....I don't see them bringing back Bayless at any capacity.
Posted by: 2nd_city_saint787 Jun 26 2012, 04:20 PM
So what was the rumor you heard?? Just Deng for the 8 straight up??
Posted by: Balta1701-B Jun 26 2012, 04:25 PM
If they don't offer Bayless the qualifying option, then they should be far enough under the cap to offer a max deal unless the cap is very low (currently $58 million, they'd be at just over $40 million).
If the Raps need a PG in this scenario I'm happy to include Watson.
Posted by: rockren Jun 26 2012, 08:00 PM
I apologize- just PURE speculation on my part.
I read on article in which Colangelo told a reporter he was offered immediate impact players straight up for the #8 pick, but was only thinking about it.
I'd be stunned if one of those players WASN'T Deng.
Again it is only speculation on my part and I apologize if I misled anyone. I'll see if I can dig up that article.
Posted by: rockren Jun 26 2012, 08:00 PM
If the Raps need a PG in this scenario I'm happy to include Watson.
+1
Posted by: Jake Jun 26 2012, 09:18 PM
If the Raps need a PG in this scenario I'm happy to include Watson.
That's a great idea.
I have a feeling our targets at 8 might be a little different than 5, is one of Barnes/MKG going to make it down there? If not, who's left?
Posted by: 2nd_city_saint787 Jun 26 2012, 09:46 PM
I have a feeling our targets at 8 might be a little different than 5, is one of Barnes/MKG going to make it down there? If not, who's left?
Its doubtful Barnes or MKG fall that far...I'd take Ross at 8.
That sounds like just the type of guy we need and would want.
If they trade Deng I think they almost have to amnesty Boozer and make a run at one of the prime free agent SGs next year, therefore I go with the SF Ross.
Posted by: Jake Jun 26 2012, 10:42 PM
-per nbadraft.net
That sounds like just the type of guy we need and would want.
If they trade Deng I think they almost have to amnesty Boozer and make a run at one of the prime free agent SGs next year, therefore I go with the SF Ross.
Forgot about Ross.
I'd assume this has been the plan all along. I don't know if anything short of a championship ring or an MVP trophy could keep Carlos here in 2013
Posted by: 2nd_city_saint787 Jun 27 2012, 06:52 AM
Perry Jones is listed as a 6-11 SF/PF on nbadraft.net...I've never seen him play, can he seriously be an NBA 3?? That would be pretty interesting to say the least.
Posted by: madisonsmadhouse Jun 27 2012, 08:24 AM
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
Sacramento at No. 5 and Toronto at No. 8. Those are the picks still generating the most trade chatter on the eve of the NBA Draft
Posted by: ZoomSlowik Jun 27 2012, 09:16 AM
I have a feeling our targets at 8 might be a little different than 5, is one of Barnes/MKG going to make it down there? If not, who's left?
Probably Lamb. Ross is an option, though he needs to develop his game a bit in the area between the 3 and the basket.
I hope it wouldn't be Rivers, he needs some serious adjustment to his shot selection.
Posted by: ZoomSlowik Jun 27 2012, 09:26 AM
Some people are talking about him at the 3, but I feel like that's a good way to guarantee that he's a horrible flop.
He's a decent ball-handler with good mobility, but the caveat is always "for his size". He's a pretty mediocre shooter too. He's good enough at all of those things to have potential as a stretch 4, but it'd be hard for him to generate offense unless he gets significantly better in those areas.
His best assets are his length, explosive leaping and his very good mobility for a big man. Playing him at the 3 reduces the impact of all of those. There are other issues if he's a 4 (plays soft, lacks aggression and toughness, no real post moves), but those are probably a little easier to fix given his standout physical profile at his position.
Posted by: 2nd_city_saint787 Jun 27 2012, 10:04 AM
He's a decent ball-handler with good mobility, but the caveat is always "for his size". He's a pretty mediocre shooter too. He's good enough at all of those things to have potential as a stretch 4, but it'd be hard for him to generate offense unless he gets significantly better in those areas.
His best assets are his length, explosive leaping and his very good mobility for a big man. Playing him at the 3 reduces the impact of all of those. There are other issues if he's a 4 (plays soft, lacks aggression and toughness, no real post moves), but those are probably a little easier to fix given his standout physical profile at his position.
Not that I want him on the Bulls or anything I'm just intrigued by a 6-11 SF...Would he be able to guard/keep up with guys like Lebron and Melo?
Posted by: rockren Jun 27 2012, 10:36 AM
He looks like Thad Young at best to me.....which isn't bad at all.
Posted by: ZoomSlowik Jun 27 2012, 11:01 AM
I don't know, Thaddeus actually hit the college 3 and was always a SF. I'm struggling to think of a good comparison if we assume he's a SF in the pros. Transitioning from a college 4 to a pro 3 is fairly tough, most of the guys I can think of that did it successfully were more natural 3's that played bigger in college.
If you can convince him that he's a 4 and he develops his skills as a stretch 4 (develops at least some post moves, learns to defend the interior at an acceptable level, develop his jumper and driving just a little since he's never going to dominate in the post), he could be a star PF in the mold of Chris Bosh or Lamarcus Aldridge. I don't know how likely that is though, and I struggle to see how he makes an impact as a perimeter player outside of occasionally bothering people with his length.
Posted by: rockren Jun 27 2012, 12:32 PM
If you can convince him that he's a 4 and he develops his skills as a stretch 4 (develops at least some post moves, learns to defend the interior at an acceptable level, develop his jumper and driving just a little since he's never going to dominate in the post), he could be a star PF in the mold of Chris Bosh or Lamarcus Aldridge. I don't know how likely that is though, and I struggle to see how he makes an impact as a perimeter player outside of occasionally bothering people with his length.
I agree if Jones wants to be successful he'll need to play like Aldridge or like Bosh use to play.
He just ticked me off watching in college because he was soft....if he was at all physical Baylor could have been elite his two years there.
Posted by: madisonsmadhouse Jun 27 2012, 12:35 PM
He just ticked me off watching in college because he was soft....if he was at all physical Baylor could have been elite his two years there.
That whole Baylor team seemed like a bunch of athletes instead of a team of basketball players. There is a lot of untapped potential there, they just need to work on basketball IQ and work ethic.
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Jun 27 2012, 03:43 PM
In an ideal world I hope the Bulls can get two of Quincy Miller, Toney Wroten, Doron Lamb, Jared Cunningham, Will Barton, John Jenkins.
Quincy Miller is intriguing for obvious reasons; his size and long wingspan at the 3 spot to go along with his offensive skill set, the clean footwork, the smooth style of play. The only thing that worries me is the mechanics on his jump shot. He gets no elevation on his shot and he shoots it almost from his chin instead of above his head where he can use that length to his advantage. The ACL injury I believe had a lot to do with his inconsistencies at Baylor but if he made it to 29 or we could creep up a few spots to take him, he'd be well worth it IMO.
Wroten is a guy that's going to break you down off the dribble. He's Tyreke Evans like in a lot of ways. Problem with him is that with all the good comes a lot of bad. His greatest strength at the college level was getting to the FT line but yet he only shot 58% from the stripe. That's got to improve, as does his jump shot. He is a good open floor passer but with that comes the carelessness and the high turnover % when he tries to do too much. If he had even a decent jump shot, he'd be a lottery selection. I like his potential though at only 19 years old. Hard to find a lot of 6'6 SG's that are as athletic and can finish as well as he does.
Jared Cunningham is my wildcard. I like him a lot. He has a little Avery Bradley/Russell Westbrook in his game. He's a pest out there defensively and his explosiveness and athleticism remind me of Westbrook when he attacks the rim. The Bulls need someone like Jared that can handle the ball and attack the rim with reckless abandon while not giving up much on the defensive end. He is going to bother a lot of people there because he has such quick hands. I think he will definitely be there at 29, but you could probably also pick up an early 2nd rounder and snatch him up if you wanted to.
Will Barton is a player that's hard not to like. He is an igniter on the floor with his high energy and competitiveness. At 6'6 he has the perfect size of a 2 guard with the exception of his body weight. That doesn't worry me though because he still averaged 8 rebounds a game last season, which shows me that he can still perform at a high level and won't be one of those guys that shy away from physical play. Offensively, though his jump shot is still somewhat raw, he has a smooth release. He was known to be a little selfish at times and at times he plays like a low IQ player, but his athletic ability and scoring ability are undeniable. He reminds me a lot of Josh Howard. It just so happens that he was also picked at #29.. Bulls just had him in for his second workout this morning. I have to believe he is their pick assuming he isn't taken before then.
Then there is John Jenkins and Doron Lamb. These are my complimentary guys. I would not want to pick both of them but I want at least one, if at all possible. These guys are high % 3pt shooters and were atop the NCAA last year in that category. Jenkins is more of a stand still shooter than he is a shot creator. Lamb can handle the ball a little bit and also create for himself if there is space to operate. Neither guy though is going to be putting up any high light real plays in their careers. They are really good at one thing and that is shooting. I'd love to have either one, just as long as they came with one of those other players I have listed above.
Posted by: Quinarvy Jun 27 2012, 03:46 PM
Jeremy Lamb is apparently slipping.
If there were some way to get a mid-teens pick and trade Deng for the #5...Barnes and Lamb/Ross seems to be slightly more realistic. And would be amazing.
Posted by: rockren Jun 27 2012, 05:44 PM
If there were some way to get a mid-teens pick and trade Deng for the #5...Barnes and Lamb/Ross seems to be slightly more realistic. And would be amazing.
Was his shoulder officially red flagged? I did hear it was Toronto or big slip for him.
Posted by: Jake Jun 27 2012, 10:57 PM
Then there is John Jenkins and Doron Lamb. These are my complimentary guys. I would not want to pick both of them but I want at least one, if at all possible. These guys are high % 3pt shooters and were atop the NCAA last year in that category. Jenkins is more of a stand still shooter than he is a shot creator. Lamb can handle the ball a little bit and also create for himself if there is space to operate. Neither guy though is going to be putting up any high light real plays in their careers. They are really good at one thing and that is shooting. I'd love to have either one, just as long as they came with one of those other players I have listed above.
Of those three, I have to think the latter two fit much better into our needs (and I think Lamb is the better overall player) and while there may be a higher chance of an all-around near star player in Will Barton, you're also looking at a much higher risk of a guy that just doesn't fit well into our offensive scheme.
Posted by: madisonsmadhouse Jun 28 2012, 08:02 AM
David Aldridge @daldridgetnt
Source: Bobcats have five legit offers they're currently exploring to trade the second pick overall in tonight's NBA Draft.
Posted by: knightni Jun 28 2012, 10:14 AM
I hope when Davis gets drafted and gets his first check that someone takes him to a salon for eyebrow manscaping.
Posted by: Jake Jun 28 2012, 10:18 AM
Source: Bobcats have five legit offers they're currently exploring to trade the second pick overall in tonight's NBA Draft.
MJ...please make a stupid deal that allows the Bulls to get Bradley Beal
I think he loves it. He was apparently trademarking some phrases related to the unibrow, lol
Posted by: knightni Jun 28 2012, 10:27 AM
Works so well for Joe Flacco and Alexei Ramirez.
Posted by: knightni Jun 28 2012, 10:27 AM
I'm no expert, but I watch Beal and see Dwyane Wade.
Posted by: ZoomSlowik Jun 28 2012, 10:33 AM
Totally different players. He's got a way better jumper and isn't nearly as explosive off the dribble.
Posted by: Brian Jun 28 2012, 12:09 PM
I don't wanna be an idiot, so here I am. Ha
Posted by: madisonsmadhouse Jun 28 2012, 12:42 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
Teams gauging Ohio State's Jared Sullinger believe he won't be selected before No. 20. Despite back problems, there's interest in 1st round.
Posted by: rockren Jun 28 2012, 12:44 PM
Beal is more like Ray Allen was IMO.
Wade was such a freak athlete at Marquette....when I used to like him as he was one of my Golden Eagles. Now? Not so much.
Posted by: Jake Jun 28 2012, 12:46 PM
If it's a point guard (a worthy choice in a vacuum), where are we improving at the SG position? I'd really like to at least have a guy on the bench like I envisioned Barton/Lamb/Jenkins who could take over and perhaps be a starter or at worst a role player. PG makes sense for this year and it's great to have a better backup for Derrick, but after this year I'm not sure how useful it really is. It's the one position where the ceiling of the pick doesn't matter (for us)
Posted by: Quinarvy Jun 28 2012, 01:24 PM
I want one of three things from this draft: Terrence Ross, Harrison Barnes, or Jeremy Lamb. Seriously, they'd be perfect fits for Rose.
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