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Posted by: DutheDoduhon21 Jul 14 2006, 12:54 PM

Posted by: eddog2 Jul 14 2006, 01:03 PM

This was the only good thing about that article

Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 14 2006, 01:08 PM

Posted by: steve9347 Jul 14 2006, 01:48 PM

haha, agreed.

Posted by: steve9347 Jul 14 2006, 01:49 PM

thats the worst emoticon ever. are you disappointed that eddog thinks songaila sucks?? make a point, man!

Posted by: hammerhead johnson Jul 14 2006, 01:49 PM

Darius is an excellent 9th man.

Posted by: eddog2 Jul 14 2006, 01:55 PM

It is just his sad response to my post. I don't know what is worse. Songaila's game or the face.

Posted by: eddog2 Jul 14 2006, 01:56 PM

Agreed. As long as the 9th man isn't in in the 4th quarter. Which Songaila always was before he got hurt.

Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 14 2006, 02:02 PM

Besides the fact that there is no vindication for your hate of Songaila, you are ignoring the fact that he was our best scoring big man last season.

Posted by: Bullies4Life Jul 14 2006, 02:37 PM

Agree....And I dont care what people say... The Bulls could use Songolia's offense this coming up season. The pick and Rolls is what Scott Skiles offensive system is mostly all about. And Songo is good at hitting the open J's.

Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 14 2006, 02:40 PM

DING DING DING!

Posted by: hammerhead johnson Jul 14 2006, 02:56 PM

Yeah, he will WHOOP anybody in a game of horse, but this is the NBA, and he can't create his own shot. His foot speed is atrocious, but like I said, he is a quality 9th man because he can shoot and he is arguably the best passer on the team. He doesn't help you, but he doesn't necessarily hurt you either.

Posted by: steve9347 Jul 14 2006, 03:00 PM

i honestly think that our roster may be set.

Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 14 2006, 03:01 PM

I'm going to have to agree. Pax hinted at 1 more veteran acquisition, I'm thinking Kukoc for a small 1 year deal so he can retire a Bull.

Posted by: eddog2 Jul 14 2006, 03:02 PM

I told you plenty of times. The guy played no defense and I feel that he cost us more loses then he provided wins. I recall on numerous occasions him turning the ball over or giving up easy baskets in the final minutes of close games that we eventually lost last year.

I wouldn't mind him being on the team if he was a 2nd/3rd quarter fill-in. But Skiles used him at keep stretches of games and I only recall one time where it ever worked out and he hit a three that forced overtime.

Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 14 2006, 03:04 PM

Thats because we had no big scorers. Thats why Skiles had him in the rotation so long. And as to why I think Songaila fits perfecty with the Bulls, see Bullies4Ever's post in this thread.

He is a good spot up shooter and is the perfect fit for the # of pick and rolls and screens the Bulls run.

Posted by: hammerhead johnson Jul 14 2006, 03:06 PM

We are arguably the deepest team in the league.

PG: Hinrich, Duhon
SG: Sefalosha, Gordon, Smith
SF: Deng, Thomas, Songalia, Khrypa
PF: Brown, Nocioni, Sweetney
C: Wallace

And Brown could obviously back up Wallace at C. We need to choose between Songalia and Khrypa, but otherwise, we are good to go at this point in time.

But a team that is quite possibly the deepest in the NBA doesn't have an SG/SF who can penetrate and get to the line a shitload of times, or a dependable frontcourt scoring option, and IMO, those are the two most important aspects of offense. We need at least one of the two.

Posted by: eddog2 Jul 14 2006, 03:12 PM

Between Songaila and Khryapa?

Songaila's not on the team (thank god) and even if he were he is a PF/C. Did you mean Tyrus Thomas. Because if you did I think Khryapa would get the edge based on him having experience already and he started some games for the Blazers last year.

Posted by: eddog2 Jul 14 2006, 03:14 PM

It's more like this

Hinrich, Duhon, Sefolosha
Gordon, Sefolosha, J.R. Smith
Deng, Nocioni, Khryapa, Thomas
Brown, Nocioni, Sweetney, Thomas, Allen
Wallace, Brown, Sweetney, Allen

But I think Brown may end up being the backup center which would allow Sweetney or Nocioni to start. More likely Nocioni.

Posted by: hammerhead johnson Jul 14 2006, 03:27 PM

I think both Brown and Sefalosha should be starting, and Gordon could be our 3 point specialist off the bench. But otherwise, that depth chart is about right. I didn't want to clutter the list too many numerous mentions of the same guy at different positions, but here it is:

PG: Hinrich, Duhon, Sefalosha
SG: Sefalosha, Gordon, Smith
SF: Deng, Nocioni, Thomas, Songalia, Khrypa
PF: Brown, Nocioni, Sweetney, Songalia
C: Wallace, Brown

I want to get Sefalosha the most minutes out of the SG slot so that Hinrich could guard opposing PGs full-time.

But it looks like we're on the same page with Nocioni providing a major spark off of the bench. He'll get his 25 to 30 minutes filling in at the SF and PF slots.

But let's say that Thomas is ready to contribute this year. Maybe then, you move Nocioni into the starting PF role and let PJ Brown be the super-sub at PF and C so that Tyrus can get enough minutes at the SF slot, as Deng's primary back-up.

Posted by: Bullies4Life Jul 14 2006, 03:35 PM

Also, I know people say that his defense sucks, but (me being a defensive guy pay attention to this kind of stuff) Songo made huge strides from the beginning of the year until he got injured. His defense improved alot. I was kinda scared when i saw Songo playing D for the first time. Roataion was horrible and all of that. But anyways, another year under the system, and it could help out a lot.

Posted by: Bullies4Life Jul 14 2006, 03:38 PM

Also, Songo is crafty, and finds ways to finish around the rim. His hook shot impressed me a lot too.

Posted by: Bullies4Life Jul 14 2006, 03:39 PM

Im Bullies4Life hehehe

Posted by: eddog2 Jul 14 2006, 05:35 PM

You still missed the point that songaila doesn't play SF.

Posted by: hammerhead johnson Jul 14 2006, 05:44 PM

Unless there are a couple of injuries, he won't sniff SF on the Bulls with Deng/Nocioni/Thomas, but he is a perimiter-oriented player, so it only makes sense that he'd qualfy at both SF and PF. He is oversized at SF, kind of like Radmanovic, but they could put him there on the strength of his outside shooting. He'd also need to be out there with the defensive unit (Hinrich/Sefalosha/Brown/Wallace) so they could get his back.

Posted by: eddog2 Jul 14 2006, 05:57 PM

I know this is from another post but it is the same thing as you making the Songaila argument for SF. If Deng can't play PF there is no way Songaila should be playing SF.

Posted by: hammerhead johnson Jul 14 2006, 06:04 PM

There is a huge difference, though. Putting Deng at PF is an injury risk. Putting Songaila at SF is not. Plus, Deng doesn't have a post game, while Songaila can shoot from the perimiter. See what I'm saying?

Posted by: eddog2 Jul 14 2006, 06:32 PM

I guess. But I still think both are grossly out of position.

Posted by: bulls91 Jul 14 2006, 06:36 PM

first of all songaila will not play the SF position and nither will thomas, thomas has the potential to become the same type of player and much better player then songaila with the spot up shoting like thomas has showen but needs work and is alos much more athletic so that will benefit him too. For thomas's spot on the SF string roaster it will be noch but if we do get cesperate they will put him in the PF position.

Second of all sweets will not play PF he played center last year and i think that he will still this year unless he is traded.

Posted by: bulls91 Jul 14 2006, 06:41 PM

I agree with you 100% they would be out of position termendously

Posted by: hammerhead johnson Jul 14 2006, 06:55 PM

Thanks, although I already said as much before you posted.



And Darius would not be grossly out of position if he had to play SF in the case of injuries, matchup, etc. Like I've said numerous times already, he is a perimiter-oriented player. He is, in essence, and oversized SF. He certainly can not bang with opposing PFs.

And with Sweets, again, he will play PF sporadically, and he would play regularly if/when someone gets injured, which is inevitable. No NBA team has perfect health over the course of a season.

And with Tyrus Thomas, he's looking like an SF to me, but I need to see more. He's probably more of a cross between an SF and a PF. You can't make a definitive assessment either way. And with your writing style, it sounds like you are trying to make a definitive assessment.

Recognize that I form my depth charts to account for injuries as well.

Posted by: hammerhead johnson Jul 14 2006, 06:59 PM

At 6'8 and 240, he is tremendously out of position?

Lebron James is 6'8 and 240 as well.

Posted by: bulls91 Jul 14 2006, 07:04 PM

sorry i just saw it and quoted back my bad

Posted by: Bullies4Ever Jul 15 2006, 03:19 PM

Gordon will start actually, Skiles said it yesterday on the radio from what i heard. He only said the obvious ones: Kirk, Gordon, and Wallace.. everything else is uncertain.

Dont quote me on this, its just what i heard. I think Gordon is definatley the starter right now, he has the edge on everyone else right now. Theres just so much more gameplanning on learning how to be effective on guarding Gordon. He already has a repuation and has an identity. The others dont yet... Someone is going to have to work hard and beat him out to start over Gordon.

And Songolia is not a SF at all. He cant make 3s consistently, He cant beat out SFs off the dribble and cant guard SFs.. Hes not the quickest guy. His position right now is PF. And he does have a lil bit of a post up game. The thing we desperately are going to need for the up coming season is for our guards being able to drive in to the lane, and dishing it out to a big guy... and that big guy being able to catch the ball and creating his own shot downlow. Songalia can do that stuff... He was kinda creative and crafty when he was near the basket. He impressed me a lot. Who will be able to do this this year for us? the only person i can think of is maybe Sweets...

Overall I think Songalia would be very nice to have back... I even said to myself towards the end of the season "wow.. this guy isnt that bad at defense like everyone else says... he works hard...puts his hands up and holds his ground... he's not much of a a shot blocker but he gets in peoples faces when they are near the basket and extends his long arms" -thats something ive always liked about him...

and just like Bullies4Life said he improved a lot towards the season ended.. he got used to the system and got experience.

Posted by: hammerhead johnson Jul 15 2006, 03:40 PM

He has no quickness, but he can hover around in the mid-range. I'd rather have him in the 10 to 15 foot range at all times, and when his man converges on the ball, he'll be left open for what is pretty much an automatic two. I want my PF underneath the rim banging with motherfuckers.

And not to bash Gordon yet again, but the dude can't penetrate, and therefore, Songaila ain't open for that automatic two. I want my SG penetrating and either drawing fouls, or hitting the wide open man. And like I have said before, I'll take the highest percentage shot available (mid-range) over a wide-open three every time.

Not that this matters, though. Paxson said Songaila won't be back next year.

Posted by: Bullies4Ever Jul 15 2006, 04:40 PM

Im confused..

lets say u were a coach in this league hammerhead... would u play Songalia at the SF position? Would u let him defend SFs? and let him get beat every single time because people would be too quick for him?

because i dont know about u.. I like when the opposing team's big man has to step out and actually contend Songos shot... that spreads the floor even more so that our guards can penetrate even easier... and I dont know about you.. but i liked when Songo actually got near basket and attacked the hole strong showcasing some nice spin moves and finish strong with a reverse lay up or something....

but like you said... not that this matters anymore... Songo is gone...

Posted by: hammerhead johnson Jul 15 2006, 06:37 PM

I said earlier in the thread that I'd put him at SF with a defensive unit (Hinrich/Sefalosha/Brown/Wallace) so that they could get his back.

Y'all keep making me reiterate stuff that I've already posted.

Also, if you really think about it, he's getting beat every single time by PFs because they are too strong for him.

It works both ways. Numerous people have said that he is too slow for the SF slot, but he also gets physically abused out of the 4. He doesn't fit in at any position if you ask me.

There are a lot of guys who are almost as slow as Songaila, but can play out of the 3 depending on the matchup. Radmanovic and Van Horn, for starters....

Posted by: Bullies4Life Jul 15 2006, 10:12 PM

Songolia is a PF. Scott Skiles has NEVER used him as a SF and never would. And yeah yeah yeah, i know we are loaded at the 3, but still. No coach will ever play him at the SF position for offense UNLESS its for a last second shot and the team lacks shooters... And so what if the guy has a nice mid range game? Good 4 him. As far as you bringing up Van Horn and Radmanovic.... those guys can do something that Songolia cant do consistently.... Hit the 3.

Also, yeah Songolia isnt the strongest guy, and that hurts him on defense... But it sure doesnt mean that he sucks or cant do anything out there... Songo is 354651654 times better at defending PFs then SFs. But yeah, my point is that just because he isnt that strong doesnt mean he cant bang w/ the big boys.... Just look at Tyson. He isnt the strongest guy, but he does bang w/ the centers. He fights through it..... They get paid for that....

Posted by: hammerhead johnson Jul 16 2006, 12:48 PM

I agree that he's much more effective out of the 4, but my original point is that he is not GROSSLY out of position at the 3. Shooting 3s is not necessarily a prerequisite for the SF slot, but an effective mid-range shot is, and Songaila is automatic on wide-open jumpers from 15 feet out. And if the primary aspect of this debate centers around his lack of quickness, I could put together a nice-sized list of players who are too slow for the 3 and not strong enough out of the 4. There is no question that Songaila would qualify. And again, if you're going to play him there depending on the matchup, injuries, etc, surround him with a defensive unit.

In the end, I don't want Songaila on my roster because he is a major defensive liability no mater where you put him, but I'll also concede that he is a quality 9th man.

Posted by: southsider2k5 Jul 17 2006, 08:06 AM

Exactly. He isn't great, but he is a good fit for the Scott Skiles offense. That has some value, but the point is moot since he isn't coming back to Chicago anyway.




To most teams he is not an asset, but for the Bulls having a big man who can pass and shoot from the perimeter is a big help. Granted he would only be in a reserve role, but he is a help to Chicago totally because of the Scott Skiles offense.