Rumors of a deal w/ Phoenix, involving #2 pick Options

[beck72]

http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1355

Further down in the link, "Phoenix Looking to Move Up?" DE stated that multiple sources indicated Phoenix wanted to package both its 1st rd picks [#21 and #27] to move into the teens to go after Carney, Thabo or Saer Sene. And that rumors had them talking with the bulls for the #2 pick. They mentioned that Shawn Marion would likely be involved [With Amare coming back, Marion is likely dealt now that he's at the top of his value].

Of all the deals/ rumors/ possible trades talked about, this would make a lot of sense for both teams.

If Marion was involved, with him making $15 mill in 2006-07, Tyson Chandler would have to be involved to make the salaries work [and either Sweetney or Duhon to get to the $15 mill]. The suns would get the #2 pick [probably to get Roy-if they like Carney and Thabo], Tyson, Duhon/ Sweetney, and maybe the #16 pick to Sene.

The Bulls would get Marion and picks #21 and #27. The Bulls could get a shot blocker/ C like Hilton Armstrong at #21. With #27, they could go for a SG [not sure who]. With a big body C like Pryzillba [sp?] in FA, and another guy like Nazr Muhammed, Tyson's absence wouldn't hurt as much.

Thoughts?

[sport1016]

so our lineup would be

hinrich/maybe still duhon
Gordon/#27pick
Marion/Deng/Noc
Muhammed/Allen
Pryzbilla/#21pick


this trade makes no sense for the bulls. Our post play would be even worse than last year and we still wouldnt have a decent shooting guard.

Even if Deng could play some two guard, this would not make us better. It would just be trading for a star, and paxson would not do that

[RememberThe90's]

I only wish Marion was taller, but he does play alot bigger
than 6-7. If its a choice b/t Tyrus Thomas and Marion..I'll take
Marion any day of the week.

[beck72]

so our lineup would be

hinrich/maybe still duhon
Gordon/#27pick
Marion/Deng/Noc
Muhammed/Allen
Pryzbilla/#21pick


this trade makes no sense for the bulls. Our post play would be even worse than last year and we still wouldnt have a decent shooting guard.

Even if Deng could play some two guard, this would not make us better. It would just be trading for a star, and paxson would not do that

MArion would play PF. Noc showed he also could play both spots, though he'd start at SF. Having a PF avg. 20 and 10 each night would open up things for both Kirk and Ben.

The trade would be basically the #2 pick and Chandler, Sweetney/ Duhon for Marion. Chandler is a great rebounder. But paying $10 mill + for a defensive only guy is a lot. Esp. if the Bulls can pick up good defensive bigs. If the Bulls included Duhon for Marion, they could likely trade Sweetney for a good defensive PF. Teams may like Sweetney's low post scoring ability but he's not a good fit for the Bulls. He should be able to net some talent back.

If the Bulls can get away with not including the 16th pick, they could likely draft Thabo for SG. With the 2 later first rounders, they can still get a PF/ C [Hilton Armstrong], and a speedy, defensive minded PG like Kyle Lowry.

PG-Kirk + Lowry
SG-Ben + Thabo
SF-Noc + Luol
PF-Marion +
C- Pyrzillba + Armstrong

A deal for Marion would better the Bulls.

[SoxFan1]

Marion is not a PF and I would hate to have him at PF. He just doesn't have the low post moves to be a PF.

[madisonsmadhouse]

I'd take Marion over any of the big guys in this draft. he would at least giving us an inside/outside scoring threat.

[sport1016]

First of all, Marion is not much of a inside scoring threat. If he was our starting pf we'd be even more perimeter oriented. His game is A LOT like noc's (though he is better than noc) in that he can guard some powerforwards and his game is shooting threes and driving on slower players. We already have noc.

MORE IMPORTANTLY, the only season marion was a starting power forward was the 04-05 season. Immediately after the season all of their moves brought in powerforwards. Kurt Thomas, Brian Grant, Boris Diaw, later Tim THomas.

It is abundantly clear that even the perimeter oriented "i don't care how undersized we are" suns didn't want marion to start at pf, but rather only play him there spot minutes and keep him on the wing.

I would rather see marion play shooting guard then power forward for the bulls. But beyond that, seeing as we have noc, I would rather see Brandon Roy or Bargs or Lamarcus than him.

[Balta1701-B]

If Marion was involved, with him making $15 mill in 2006-07, Tyson Chandler would have to be involved to make the salaries work [and either Sweetney or Duhon to get to the $15 mill]. The suns would get the #2 pick [probably to get Roy-if they like Carney and Thabo], Tyson, Duhon/ Sweetney, and maybe the #16 pick to Sene.

I'm almost certain you're incorrect here. The Bulls have something like $18 million in space under the salary cap this season. Therefore, they should be able to absorb a contract like Marion's with really no problems at all. They can make a deal for him without having to send Phoenix salary back, which would probably be the point of making a deal like this for Phoenix (lower overall salary = easier to hold onto guys like Diaw, Thomas, etc.)

[ZoomSlowik]

Marion would basically give us a more athletic version of Nocioni. That's not what we need. We're already too perimeter oriented, and Marion would just make it worse, while also blowing a good chance to add a solid young prospect. Marion's a good player, but unless he's going to replace Deng or Nocioni, he's not a good fit.

[Bullies4Life]

^ Zoom is exactly right

[beck72]

I'm almost certain you're incorrect here. The Bulls have something like $18 million in space under the salary cap this season. Therefore, they should be able to absorb a contract like Marion's with really no problems at all. They can make a deal for him without having to send Phoenix salary back, which would probably be the point of making a deal like this for Phoenix (lower overall salary = easier to hold onto guys like Diaw, Thomas, etc.)

Don't salaries have to match in order for trades to be completed? Even though the Bulls are under the cap and have cash to spend, the players involved in the trades have to match salaries.

[beck72]

First of all, Marion is not much of a inside scoring threat. If he was our starting pf we'd be even more perimeter oriented. His game is A LOT like noc's (though he is better than noc) in that he can guard some powerforwards and his game is shooting threes and driving on slower players. We already have noc.

MORE IMPORTANTLY, the only season marion was a starting power forward was the 04-05 season. Immediately after the season all of their moves brought in powerforwards. Kurt Thomas, Brian Grant, Boris Diaw, later Tim THomas.

It is abundantly clear that even the perimeter oriented "i don't care how undersized we are" suns didn't want marion to start at pf, but rather only play him there spot minutes and keep him on the wing.

I would rather see marion play shooting guard then power forward for the bulls. But beyond that, seeing as we have noc, I would rather see Brandon Roy or Bargs or Lamarcus than him.

Most of the scenarios bandied about as far as drafting/ trading/ Free agency go, there are no perfect solutions for the Bulls. But my first choice for the Bulls would be for them to draft Roy with the #2.

[beck72]

Marion would basically give us a more athletic version of Nocioni. That's not what we need. We're already too perimeter oriented, and Marion would just make it worse, while also blowing a good chance to add a solid young prospect. Marion's a good player, but unless he's going to replace Deng or Nocioni, he's not a good fit.

Marion probably wouldn't be worth the #2 pick and all the salary constraints it would put on the Bulls. It's fun to speculate though. Now, if a true PF/ C would give the Bulls a double-double each night became available, it might be worth re-doing the Bulls roster for. But those are few and far between

[Balta1701-B]

Don't salaries have to match in order for trades to be completed? Even though the Bulls are under the cap and have cash to spend, the players involved in the trades have to match salaries.

No, the salaries do not have to match...if one team has space under the cap to absorb the contract of the other side's player. If both teams are at/over the cap, then the salaries have to match within a certain percentage. But since we have that $18 mil in cap space, we can absorb salary from teams that are interested in dumping.

[sport1016]

If there's one thing the bulls do not need right now it is a lot more youth.

That is why a trade like #16 for #21 and 27 from phoenix, while very possible, it has to be assumed that another move would be made. There is no way the bulls want three players with guaranteed contracts on their roster next year that are rookies.

The Bulls would trade up or down or even out of the draft altogether, as paxson would do ANYTHING that meant getting a solid veteran instead of more youth.

Draft express reported two different things regarding the bulls recently. First is the #16 for #21 and #27 from phoenix and second is that it appears Tyrus thomas has a promise at #2, but draftexpress speculates it is not with the bulls, but that someone is going to trade for the bulls pick to take him, seeing as he is too small for what the bulls need.

So, the Bulls start with two trades. The first would be something like the #2 for a pick and a veteran shooting guard or post player. The worse the pick, the better the veteran and vice versa. Then the bulls trade with phoenix, giving the bulls three first round picks and a veteran.

They then trade those three picks to move up as high as they can (maybe only trading two or two and a guy like sweets) and take a shooting guard/post player, whatever position the veteran doesn't play probably.

This would also work without the phoenix trade, meaning we just use the pick we got for the #2 and #16 to move up, but i would guess paxson would gauge which has more value (#16 or 21 and 27) and simply decide based on that. Because the talent between 16 and 21 is probably identical, i would assume the two picks are better if the team he is dealing with is serious about adding a lot of youth.