Glass Half Full, A reflection on Pax's decisions Options

[sport1016]

Last night I, like many people on this board, was pissed as hell. I was angry, then I was upset, and then I was drunk. I slept on it, and I nowunderstand what paxson has done. I am not changing my view of tyrus, not conforming, not going from thinking he won't fit the team to thinking he's a savior, but rather trying to look inside Pax's head and connect the dots.

FOLLOW ME HERE, I THINK I CAN PUT IT TOGETHER:

1) Trading second round picks. IF we are going to become an elite team, 2nd rounders aren't making this roster anyway. Besides, we had two 2nd rounders next year anywway.

2) Taking Sefolosha instead of Brewer or Carney. I re-read his draft profile and found some amazing things that I missed before. He was to Euro league like Brandon Roy was to NCAA. He was clearly his team's best player but was happy being a cog in a system. He guarded the opponent's best player 1-4. Amazing defender, the best shotblocker on his team even, supposedly better defender than Pietrus, who we've wanted and almost drafted. He's a bigger talent than his projected draft position bc he was relatively unknown until recently. Could've been top ten in a later draft. Also, and I have been very very outspoken about the need of getting a guard who could play with both hinrich and gordon to make sure everyone gets enough minutes, Paxson himself said on the radio last night that Sefolosha can play point and that he would play with ben. He used to be a point forward for his team, like brewer in college or scottie for us. I like Brewer, but sefolosha apperars to be a very similar player with at least as good of a shot if not better and according to many GMs the best perimeter defender in the draft. This is one of those picks that I will trust that Pax knows more about this guy than us, as I never knew he could handle the ball.

3) Aldridge traded for tyrus. God did I hate that move, but Pax did it for two reasons I think. As we have discussed, expecially me, A good front court has one defensive and one offensive post player. If Pax didn't feel like aldridge was a good offensive player to put with chandler, he didn't want to set us back by taking someone who wouldn't pan out that way. Again, I am relying on the fact that paxson knows more about these guys than us. Reason 1: Tyrus, I think he could grow another inch or so (he's 19! so was deng and he grew another inch) and add a little weight and he would be an upgrade over chandler as our defensive big. He already seems to have more offense than him, just seeing him dribble and shoot a little in highlights means he can develop more offensive skills than chandler ever will, he could be a perfect complement to a big offensive center, which is someone we could get in FA, trade chandler for, or draft next year. Reason 2: The NBA game is changing. It's going to be more up and down, and if tyrus becomes what he is supposed to, though he isn't worth spiff now, he will thrive. Even if he isn't a low post scorer, all i care is he will be able to guard them. If he ends up at 6'9 1.2"-6'10 and 235-240 in a couple years, that'd be a nice thing to have next to someone who's bulky and can score a little.

Remember, with the new NBA style we really don't need a big guy to score 25 ppg. THat era is over. Besides Duncan, Garnett, Shaq, and JOneal, there is no one who is so overpowering that tyrus couldn't guard them once he ads weight. Don't forget his long arms make him play taller than he is. We just need a guy who when we throw it in to him ppl pay attention. I guy like Nene who can get 14 and 8 is fine bc he requires attention in the post like Curry did when he lit the world on fire averaging 16 and 5.

Maybe I judged too quickly. Maybe we all did. If tyrus never adds weight and aldridge is an all star, we can all say i told you so. If not, this could be an exciting team that plays the kind of ball that will be rampant in the NBA come time for us to grab a trophy.

[DutheDoduhon21]

i agree with alot of things you said i wasnt really happy with the sefolosha selection because i wanted brewer or carney but i think sefolosha will fit in nicely with our team, tyrus is still young and he can grow with our young team i thibk he will get better talent wise and size wise. i like thomas and i think he is a good peice to our team, we will sign a guy like nene or harrington to fill the C void

[SleepyWhiteSox]

I don't think an NBA team has ever won it all without a legitimate, productive C (unless you have Jordan) nor do I think they ever will...not buying this whole "new NBA" idea...

[SoxFan1]

Pax said the reason they traded for Thomas was because Portland offered Khryapa.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Pax said the reason they traded for Thomas was because Portland offered Khryapa.

[Bullies4Life]

Last night I, like many people on this board, was pissed as hell.  I was angry, then I was upset, and then I was drunk.  I slept on it, and I nowunderstand what paxson has done.  I am not changing my view of tyrus, not conforming, not going from thinking he won't fit the team to thinking he's a savior, but rather trying to look inside Pax's head and connect the dots.

FOLLOW ME HERE, I THINK I CAN PUT IT TOGETHER:

1)  Trading second round picks.  IF we are going to become an elite team, 2nd rounders aren't making this roster anyway.  Besides, we had two 2nd rounders next year anywway.

2) Taking Sefolosha instead of Brewer or Carney.  I re-read his draft profile and found some amazing things that I missed before.  He was to Euro league like Brandon Roy was to NCAA.  He was clearly his team's best player but was happy being a cog in a system.  He guarded the opponent's best player 1-4.  Amazing defender, the best shotblocker on his team even, supposedly better defender than Pietrus, who we've wanted and almost drafted.  He's a bigger talent than his projected draft position bc he was relatively unknown until recently.  Could've been top ten in a later draft.  Also, and I have been very very outspoken about the need of getting a guard who could play with both hinrich and gordon to make sure everyone gets enough minutes, Paxson himself said on the radio last night that Sefolosha can play point and that he would play with ben.  He used to be a point forward for his team, like brewer in college or scottie for us.  I like Brewer, but sefolosha apperars to be a very similar player with at least as good of a shot if not better and according to many GMs the best perimeter defender in the draft.  This is one of those picks that I will trust that Pax knows more about this guy than us, as I never knew he could handle the ball. 

3) Aldridge traded for tyrus. God did I hate that move, but Pax did it for two reasons I think.  As we have discussed, expecially me, A good front court has one defensive and one offensive post player.  If Pax didn't feel like aldridge was a good offensive player to put with chandler, he didn't want to set us back by taking someone who wouldn't pan out that way.  Again, I am relying on the fact that paxson knows more about these guys than us.  Reason 1:  Tyrus, I think he could grow another inch or so (he's 19! so was deng and he grew another inch) and add a little weight and he would be an upgrade over chandler as our defensive big.  He already seems to have more offense than him, just seeing him dribble and shoot a little in highlights means he can develop more offensive skills than chandler ever will, he could be a perfect complement to a big offensive center, which is someone we could get in FA, trade chandler for, or draft next year. Reason 2: The NBA game is changing.  It's going to be more up and down, and if tyrus becomes what he is supposed to, though he isn't worth spiff now, he will thrive.  Even if he isn't a low post scorer, all i care is he will be able to guard them.  If he ends up at 6'9 1.2"-6'10 and 235-240 in a couple years, that'd be a nice thing to have next to someone who's bulky and can score a little.

Remember, with the new NBA style we really don't need a big guy to score 25 ppg.  THat era is over.  Besides Duncan, Garnett, Shaq, and JOneal, there is no one who is so overpowering that tyrus couldn't guard them once he ads weight.  Don't forget his long arms make him play taller than he is.  We just need a guy who when we throw it in to him ppl pay attention. I guy like Nene who can get 14 and 8 is fine bc he requires attention in the post like Curry did when he lit the world on fire averaging 16 and 5.

Maybe I judged too quickly.  Maybe we all did.  If tyrus never adds weight and aldridge is an all star, we can all say i told you so.  If not, this could be an exciting team that plays the kind of ball that will be rampant in the NBA come time for us to grab a trophy.

Overall, nice post You said you think T2 can grow another inch or 2... Its more like you "hope"... I really hope so too

-And another thing... Nene most likely wont command "attention"...No where near Eddy did. He's not much of an offensive player... Just a strong finisher by the rim, which i really like. The guy hasnt even averaged over 12 points in a season. That being said, i still think he is young, a hard worker, and might become a go-to guy during some stretches of a game....

[sport1016]

Nene averaged 12 and 7 playing starters mins (33mpg) and starting every game in 03-04.

In 24mpg the next year he averaged 10 and 6. If he played starters mins like 35 mpg it would be almost 14 ppg and over 8 rpg.

And he's only 23. He will get even better, but he's more than serviceable now.

This whole team will have every player in their prime in 2-3 years. Like our last championship team, we will make a lot of noise these next few years and then take the next step with basically the same team. We could have another long run of championship contention when it is all said and done.

[erw9z3]

The way the NBA is played now I don't think that you need to have a dominant guy who can score in the post. I think Paxson went with Thomas knowing that Nazr Mohammed and Joel Przybilla woud be available in free agency to at least be a presence at center.

I did get pretty excited when I saw the highlights of Thabo Sefolosha.

[ZoomSlowik]

I don't think an NBA team has ever won it all without a legitimate, productive C (unless you have Jordan) nor do I think they ever will...not buying this whole "new NBA" idea...

I would ammend that to say post player or big guy. Pretty much every team that won had at least one above average post player, including the Bulls. Grant was pretty productive on the first team, and Rodman was stellar defensively and on the boards. Also, Jordan was one of the best offensive players in the post in the league. Even the recent teams had guys that can do damage in the post. Obviously Miami had Shaq, Detroit got post production from Rasheed, Prince and Billups, San Antonio obviously had Duncan, and the Lakers also had Shaq. The Bulls don't have anyone that can do that.

You need more than just defense down there, you need someone that can manufacture easy baskets and shoot a high percentage. Thomas isn't going to give you double-digit scoring for probably 2 full seasons.

[sport1016]

You said you think T2 can grow another inch or 2... Its more like you "hope"... I really hope so too 

Even now at 6'8 1/2" he isn't that short. A lot of power forwards are listed at 6'9 or 6'10 and are really about 6'8. Plus, his long arms make up for it.

Height has nothing to do with position in the nba, because you don't use the top of your head to play. You use your hands. His wingspan is like 7'5. So average those out and he plays like he is about 7 feet tall. (His arm socket is aproximately 3.5 inches lower than that of a seven footer but his arms are each about 2.5 inches longer so when he reaches up to block a shot, his arms reach as high as someone who is somewhere between 6'11 and 7 ft.)

Position has more to do with one's body. He doesn't need to grow really, he needs weight and bulk. Adding 20 lbs or so over 2 years shouldn't be a problem if he is committed to it.

237 is enough to guard most pfs if you have long arms like his.

[sport1016]

You need more than just defense down there, you need someone that can manufacture easy baskets and shoot a high percentage. Thomas isn't going to give you double-digit scoring for probably 2 full seasons.

I agree completely. And, even when thomas averages like 10 and 12 or whatever he is supposed to do, his scoring won't come from posting up.

You do need a presence in the paint, but not a world beater. Curry was not ever going to be more than the 16 and 5 he was giving, but that would have been enough. In a couple years the era of David Robinson, Hakeem, Shaq, Kareem, Ewing, Mourning, Barkely, Artis Gilmore, Ralph Sampson, and whoever else I am forgetting will be completely over as shaq retires and KG and Duncan slow with injuries and age.

Back then a team like the pacers had to feature a guy like Rick Smits because they needed a guy who was as close as possible in talent to all these guys just to compete.

It's different now. Team's don't have high scoring centers. Teams have high scoring power forwards and a center who rebounds and takes up space on D. Like Jermaine with Pollard/Foster, Garnett with Kandi/nesterovic/madsen, Duncan with Mouhammed/nesterovic/wilis/rose and Brand with Kaman and Dirk with Dampier/Diop.

These guys are amazing scorers, but they by no means have the size ('cept duncan, shaq and jermaine) of guys from the last era who will all be hall of famers. Unlike before, you don't need to counter a team's marquee big man with another all star. The chandlers, dampiers, and foyles of the world can handle these guys even if they aren't matching them on offense.

If we can get 14-16 ppg out of a post scorer, we'll be just fine.

[ZoomSlowik]

Even now at 6'8 1/2" he isn't that short. A lot of power forwards are listed at 6'9 or 6'10 and are really about 6'8. Plus, his long arms make up for it.

Height has nothing to do with position in the nba, because you don't use the top of your head to play. You use your hands. His wingspan is like 7'5. So average those out and he plays like he is about 7 feet tall. (His arm socket is aproximately 3.5 inches lower than that of a seven footer but his arms are each about 2.5 inches longer so when he reaches up to block a shot, his arms reach as high as someone who is somewhere between 6'11 and 7 ft.)

Position has more to do with one's body. He doesn't need to grow really, he needs weight and bulk. Adding 20 lbs or so over 2 years shouldn't be a problem if he is committed to it.

237 is enough to guard most pfs if you have long arms like his.

His wingspan is better than almost every guy his size (7'3" to be exact), but it's still lower than that a lot of the bigger guys. For instance, his standing reach is still two inches shorter than that of Aldridge, and that's going to be a case against most of the taller PF's. Many of them are also roughly as athletic as he is and have a big bulk advantage. Generally the taller you are the longer your wingspan is as well.

If he can get up to at least 235, he'll be a dangerous help defender and be able to hold his own on the ball. The bigger guys will still be able to shoot over him though. That still doesn't help him on the offensive end though.

[sport1016]

I think he will be fine as long as we move chandler.

They are both suited to be the "other" post player, getting all the weak side blocks and offensive rebounds and putbacks.

Can you imagine both waited to come off their man for the block? Or BOTH waiting for the putback that will never come because one of them would have to post up first?

I am still hoping we trade tyrus for KG, but if not, one of two things happens, depending on our free agent haul

1) We get a scoring big man this off-season and chandler starts alongside him, eventually (maybe 07-08) chandler becomes super sub and tyrus starts with scorer

Chandler/Tyrus/sweets
Nene/Chandler/malik
to
Tyrus/Chandler/sweets
Nene/Chandler/malik

or

2) We don't get anything more than a stop-gap this offseason and between chandler, sweets, and FA two start. When tyrus is ready to start at PF, we trade chandler and someone like Duhon for a legit scorer and our FA from this year becomes the super sub.

Chandler/tyrus/sweets
Muhammed/Chandler/Malik
to
Tyrus/Muhammed/sweets
SCORER/Muhammed/malik

[ZoomSlowik]

I think he will be fine as long as we move chandler.

They are both suited to be the "other" post player, getting all the weak side blocks and offensive rebounds and putbacks.

Can you imagine both waited to come off their man for the block? Or BOTH waiting for the putback that will never come because one of them would have to post up first?

I am still hoping we trade tyrus for KG, but if not, one of two things happens, depending on our free agent haul

1) We get a scoring big man this off-season and chandler starts alongside him, eventually (maybe 07-08) chandler becomes super sub and tyrus starts with scorer

Chandler/Tyrus/sweets
Nene/Chandler/malik
to
Tyrus/Chandler/sweets
Nene/Chandler/malik

or

2) We don't get anything more than a stop-gap this offseason and between chandler, sweets, and FA two start. When tyrus is ready to start at PF, we trade chandler and someone like Duhon for a legit scorer and our FA from this year becomes the super sub.

Chandler/tyrus/sweets
Muhammed/Chandler/Malik
to
Tyrus/Muhammed/sweets
SCORER/Muhammed/malik

I definitely agree with that, both players on the floor at the same time would hurt. I wouldn't be complaining anywhere near as much if we already had someone like KG or O'Neal. However, Chandler is probably going to be a more potent rebounder and shot-blocker for the next two years. I guess both of those players I mentioned are pretty decent themselves defensively though...

[sport1016]

I definitely agree with that, both players on the floor at the same time would hurt. I wouldn't be complaining anywhere near as much if we already had someone like KG or O'Neal. However, Chandler is probably going to be a more potent rebounder and shot-blocker for the next two years. I guess both of those players I mentioned are pretty decent themselves defensively though...

Yeah, they are both good defenders (shaq was until a couple years ago) and that reinforces my point. THey are both amazing post players on both sides of the ball. The two years in the fnals where it was Hakeem v. Ewing and Hakeem v. Shaq i saw more shots swatted then than the rest of my life put together.

But those world beaters are a dying breed. I think you will see the future a lot more like Randolph (O) and pryz (D) and Webber (O) and Dalembert (D) and Nowitzki (O) and Damp/diop (D). I could go on. We needed the O, pax didn't see the right guy, so now we have a better D. We'll see. I don't think Pax would've come out of the draft without a post scorer if he didnt have a target this offseason.

My gut says he thought aldridge might get us to be the 4 seed instead of the 7th, but wouldn't make us a champion. I hope to hell he is right.