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TalkBulls Forums _ Bulls Talk _ Bulls Acquire Salmons, Miller from Kings in 3-Team Trade
Posted by: SoxFan1 Feb 18 2009, 03:47 PM
Well, that helps a little.
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Feb 18 2009, 03:48 PM
From the SAC Blog:
Ike Diogu gets moved for Ruffin.
EDIT: Woops wrong place..
Anyways, I like the trade. We get rid of two guys that don't need minutes here anymore and we got rid of Noc's contract. We bring in a guy like Salmons who can score off the bench and Miller is a pretty decent backup center to spar Noah while he rests. I have a feeling Kirk is about to get traded to Minnesota.
ESPN is reporting Cedric Simmons was also included in the deal.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3916703
Posted by: Balta1701-B Feb 18 2009, 03:53 PM
This actually reduces our under-the-luxury-tax space this offseason by a significant amount since that was our only 2009 expiring deal. In other words, we can no longer offer Gordon the same deal we offered him last summer without going in to luxury tax territory.
That does clear a little bit of extra space after 2010 I believe though, and thus might give us a reasonable shot at offering Bosh/Wade a true max deal.
Posted by: soxfan3530 Feb 18 2009, 03:56 PM
this should officially kill all the amare and bosh rumors finally. another blah move for the bulls afte rumors of superstars coming to chicago. sigh.
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Feb 18 2009, 03:58 PM
We could still do a 3 way with Minnesota but the chances of that are slim and none.
How great would it be to get rid of Kirk for Boozer? That's what Sam Smith is reporting as a rumor.
Posted by: SoxFan1 Feb 18 2009, 03:58 PM
UNLESS, this whole time, Pheonix has really wanted Deng or Gordon...
Posted by: GreatScott82 Feb 18 2009, 04:05 PM
ESPN just reported that Ruffin was pulled off the team bus. Officials said that he may be involved with another player being traded to Portland.
I have a gut feeling that it will be Kirk Hinrich and Ruffin heading to Portland for Raef LaFrentz and his expirering contract. We are clearing cap space for 2010!
Portland has coveted Hinrich for quite some time now. Stay tuned!
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Feb 18 2009, 04:09 PM
I was going to say Kirk for Collins and McCants but we just got Salmons so idk.
Posted by: SoxFan1 Feb 18 2009, 04:14 PM
Gordon: 20.4 ppg
Salmons 18.3 ppg
Gordon: .450 FG%
Salmons: .472 FG%
Gordon: .417 3PT%
Salmons: .418 3PT%
Posted by: GreatScott82 Feb 18 2009, 04:22 PM
Salmons 18.3 ppg
Gordon: .450 FG%
Salmons: .472 FG%
Gordon: .417 3PT%
Salmons: .418 3PT%
Salmons pretty much replaces Gordon's role as a starting shooting guard next season? If my prediction of Hinrich's deal goes down, here is what our new depth chart looks like:
Rose PG (Hunter)
Gordon SG (Salmons, Sefelosha)
Deng SF (Hughes, Sefelosha)
Thomas PF ??
Noah C (Miller, Gray)
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Feb 18 2009, 04:25 PM
The next trade is going to be Kirk for expirings. Salmons can absorb Kirk's minutes. Thabo is pretty expendable and I think if we can trade Hughes also, we have done a pretty good job for ourselves.
Posted by: SoxFan1 Feb 18 2009, 04:25 PM
Rose PG (Hunter)
Gordon SG (Salmons, Sefelosha)
Deng SF (Hughes, Sefelosha)
Thomas PF ??
Noah C (Miller, Gray)
Hughes is pretty much done with the Bulls, whether he gets traded or not.
PG: Rose, Hunter
SG: Gordon, Salmons, Sefolosha
SF: Deng, Salmons
PF: Tyrus
C: Miller, Noah, Gray
Posted by: Balta1701-B Feb 18 2009, 04:27 PM
PG: Rose, Hunter
SG: Gordon, Salmons, Sefolosha
SF: Deng, Salmons
PF: Tyrus
C: Miller, Noah, Gray
We're now holding a ton of 2010 expiring deals. I have no problem holding on to Hughes for now for that reason...I'd just like to move Hinrich's contract.
Move Hinrich's contract, and then suddenly we've got a shot at a lineup like:
Rose
Salmons/Thabo
Deng/Salmons
Bosh/Tyrus
Noah/Gray
or
Rose
Wade
Deng
Tyrus
Noah
hehe.
Posted by: GreatScott82 Feb 18 2009, 04:29 PM
PG: Rose, Hunter
SG: Gordon, Salmons, Sefolosha
SF: Deng, Salmons
PF: Tyrus
C: Miller, Noah, Gray
The latest....
Apparently there was a third team involved as the Bulls shipped Ruffin to Portland and Portland sent Diagu to Sacremento.
Maybe Kirk is staying afterall.... unless that Minnesota deal is still under construction?
Posted by: Balta1701-B Feb 18 2009, 04:30 PM
Salmons 18.3 ppg
Gordon: .450 FG%
Salmons: .472 FG%
Gordon: .417 3PT%
Salmons: .418 3PT%
You're a good salesperson.
Posted by: SoxFan1 Feb 18 2009, 04:31 PM
Not to mention Salmons is a legit 6'6 and plays better defense.
Posted by: soxfan3530 Feb 18 2009, 04:37 PM
if we end up making all these cap saving moves so we have tons of cap relief in 2010 and end up with nothing again (like the mcgrady, duncan, hill offseason) i am going to loss it. these moves better land us bosh or wade. hell both of them!
Posted by: Balta1701-B Feb 18 2009, 04:41 PM
Ok, based on numbers at HoopsHype, here's how we look in 2010 if we don't move Hinrich. We currently have 7 players under contract through the 2011 season, Hinrich, Rose, Thabo, Tyrus, Salmons, Deng, Noah. Those contracts together add up to $44.9 million. The current cap this year is $58.68 million. That gives us $13.8 million under the cap...before this year's draft pick (s) and before adding in any kind of extension or new dollars for Gray. The cap has been going up by a couple million dollars per year, but it's hard to imagine it continuing to do so in this economy, but every little bit it goes up counts.
In other words, I think we're a few hundred thousand dollars away from being able to offer a true max contract in 2010 depending on what we do with this year's draft and where exactly the cap falls the next 2 years. We may very well have it.
Posted by: Balta1701-B Feb 18 2009, 04:42 PM
Landing both would be virtually impossible, unless we could pull off some remarkable sign and trade deals.
Posted by: MB33 Feb 18 2009, 05:52 PM
isnt miller still injured
Posted by: DutheDoduhon21 Feb 18 2009, 05:54 PM
im a fan of this trade. salmons has been quietly having a great year, and also miller will help in the post. ill miss noc, he always gave it 110% and kept things interesting. i read they were pulled off the team bus, thats a nice way to leave. now we jsut need to ship hughes out.
Posted by: D. Rose Feb 18 2009, 06:00 PM
He is listed as day to day.
Posted by: GreatScott82 Feb 18 2009, 06:51 PM
In other words, I think we're a few hundred thousand dollars away from being able to offer a true max contract in 2010 depending on what we do with this year's draft and where exactly the cap falls the next 2 years. We may very well have it.
Good info.
If this Hinrich deal goes down, then we will be $23.8 million under the 'current cap'. Assuming we aqcuire expirering contracts of corse. That should be pleanty to offer a true max contract in 2010...
Posted by: bschmaranz Feb 18 2009, 10:08 PM
In other words, I think we're a few hundred thousand dollars away from being able to offer a true max contract in 2010 depending on what we do with this year's draft and where exactly the cap falls the next 2 years. We may very well have it.
You can probably take Salmons numbers out of that equation. He can opt out of his contract after next season and based on what he's making and his production, he probably will.
Posted by: DutheDoduhon21 Feb 18 2009, 10:10 PM
pax's thoughts on the trade
just saw on sportsnite an interview w/ luol, he took the trade really hard, tough for him to see noc go, he couldnt even finish the interview, he had to walk away. best of luck to noc.
Posted by: SoxFan1 Feb 18 2009, 10:48 PM
Salmons will wear #5 and Miller will wear #52.
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Feb 18 2009, 11:18 PM
Even better news. A source close to Bosh says his first choice in free agency would be to come to Chicago 
Posted by: SoxFan1 Feb 19 2009, 01:03 AM
So after mulling this over for hours, I love the deal. Hearing now that Salmons is a quite guy makes me think he's gonna enjoy playing for a team with a shot at the playoffs. In Salmons, we get a new, much improved big man, upgrading from Nocioni to Salmons. He also improves our defense on the wings greatly. In Miller, we add a legit center who we can run some plays through. He's an excellent passer and is more consistent than Gooden. He also opens up the lane for Rose since he plays outside a bit more.
So our current rotation looks like this...
PG Rose
SG Gordon
SF Deng
PF Thomas
C Miller
6 Salmons
7 Noah
8 Hinrich
9 Sefolosha
10 Gray
11 Hunter
12 Hughes
Not to mention, it gives us another expiring contract for the 2010 off-season, and possibly a 2nd as Salmons can opt out for 2010. And on top of all that, if/when Gordon leaves this summer, we've got a big, legit SG who can take over for him next season.
Posted by: steve9347 Feb 19 2009, 08:54 AM
Reasons I like the deal
1. John Salmons - Being an avid fantasy basketball player, I've been able to follow this guy over the last few years. He's proven that when given the minutes, eh can be a very good scorer, a #2 option on a good team. Sure, he's 29, but we now have a relatively cheap option at SG for the next few years, and can let Gordon walk without worries. Gordon can go get overpaid somewhere as Salmons is 5 inches taller, plays defense, and can shoot/drive just as well as Gordon ever could. Getting Salmons at this price was a steal. He's a high-percent shooting guard and high-character as well.
2. Brad Miller is better than Noah, Gray, and Gooden - We actually have a center, now. I'd say Brad Miller is the best all-around center we've had since... Brad Miller. Sure, he's old, but his contract expires in 2010, so he's not going to hold us down, and our offense will run incredibly smoothly with him on the floor. It's going to be like we have two point guards.
3. We didn't trade anything of value to do this one - This means we still have some cards to play with as 2pm approaches today. If nothing more happens, I'll be disappointed, but even then at least we have a lot of valuable pieces. I've never seen a roster this chock full of guys who'd be an AWESOME #3 option on any team. Unfortunately, we need another #1.
Reasons I don't like the deal
1. For this year, too many guards - We still have half a season left. I would be in favor of Salmons starting for us, but we'll see if that comes to fruition. I'd hate to get a guy like that, who's just waiting for his shot, and then have him buried on a roster that also boasts Rose, Hinrich, Gordon, Thabo, etc etc. This is why I feel another deal must be made. You obviously can't trade Gordon (BIRD Rights), but Hinrich should be shipped out of here. I didn't include Hughes, because he's either going to be traded or going to be Starbury'd.
2. It doesn't really solve anything - A 32 year old center and a 29 year old SG. Sure, both are upgrades to the current roster, and might get us into the 7th or 8th seed of the playoffs. That's probably a bad thing though, as the best talent comes out of the lottery, and this would keep us out of there after a first round ass-kicking from the Celtics or Magic.
In Conclusion
Bulls win the trade. We look better for next year with Salmons locked up, but another year after this of being mediocre is ahead. The Bulls upgraded two spots in their lineup without giving up anything the franchise or any fans value. Obviously the Bulls have decided that they'll wait and make a run at a 2010 free agent. Whatever. You'd better f***ing land one of the top three then.
Posted by: MB33 Feb 19 2009, 09:53 AM
i think 2010 is over hyped why wait.If i was a gm i wouldnt want that thinking of lets wait a year or two.I will try and get the best players available that can improve the team now because there is no guarantees of players signing with u 2010.Also our GM/owners are a joke.Playoff experience pays off in the long run if we can make a push.Our coach VDN thats another joke.
Posted by: ZoomSlowik Feb 19 2009, 10:33 AM
In other words, I think we're a few hundred thousand dollars away from being able to offer a true max contract in 2010 depending on what we do with this year's draft and where exactly the cap falls the next 2 years. We may very well have it.
You're going to need $18 mil to offer a max deal to any of the studs, that's what the first year of the 5-105 maximum offer has to be in order for it to reach that total contract given the max raises. We're unlikely to get another $4 mil added to the cap given the state of the economy, in fact most expect the cap to go down. For us to be able to do a max offer we still need to clear out another contract or have Salmons opt out.
Posted by: jorgefabregas Feb 19 2009, 11:04 AM
Hollinger's take:
Chicago: This is an outstanding deal for the Bulls, who dump one bad contract in Nocioni and get a big boost for the playoff run with Salmons and Miller. Of course, the Bulls were hoping to strike richer with their combination of Drew Gooden's expiring contract and the $5 million exception from the Joe Smith trade, but once Chris Bosh and Amare Stoudemire were off the table this was the next best option.
The moves set the Bulls up for a nice free-agent run in 2010, especially if Salmons opts out of his contract that year. And since Chicago is enough of a major league city to be a free-agent lure despite its blustery weather, the Bulls stand a decent chance of ending up with Bosh or Stoudemire via that route a year and a half down the road.
In the short term it helps too. In Miller, the Bulls get a physical interior player who can shoot and pass, and one who may be rejuvenated by playing on a better team. He should be an excellent complement to the Bulls' more athletic but less skilled combo of Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah. Certainly he's better than Aaron Gray.
As for Salmons, he's quietly become among the most productive two-way wing players in the league and should supplant Larry Hughes and Thabo Sefolosha in Chicago's guard rotation. If the Bulls' discussions to move Kirk Hinrich pan out, it seems Salmons' role will be nearly as large in Chicago as it was in Sacramento. Certainly he's a major upgrade over Nocioni, who had taken to hoisting wild shots, and could put the Bulls over the top in their quest for a playoff berth.
However, if I'm wrong and the Bulls can't carve out playing time for Salmons, there could be trouble. The one negative about Salmons is his reputation as a me-first guy who gripes if he's not getting lots of minutes and shots. Grade: A-minus
Posted by: DutheDoduhon21 Feb 21 2009, 11:12 PM
noc made his debut with the kings today, had 10pts, 7 reb, and 3 ast. in 30 min, not too bad he was probably a little nervous. doesnt look so good in purple.
Posted by: SoxFan1 Feb 22 2009, 12:05 PM
He was 2-11 from the field. He played horrible.
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