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> The Nikola Mirotic Thread
Jake
post Jun 22 2012, 07:54 PM
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QUOTE (dasox24 @ Jun 22 2012, 01:01 PM) *
Oh, I know that all too well. Once the Grizz moved to Memphis, I adopted them as my 2nd team since I'm from there and would go to a few games each season.


I love how cheap games are there. I think we've been back and forth about this before but I go to Rhodes and that usually gets me about 5 free games a year as well biggrin.gif

QUOTE (Balta1701-B @ Jun 22 2012, 01:10 PM) *
I don't know what the problem was but the video shows up now, I just had to edit his post and turn the HTML on in the post. It was already allowed in the forum.


lolhitting.gif
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Quinarvy
post Jun 22 2012, 10:10 PM
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QUOTE (Balta1701-B @ Jun 22 2012, 01:10 PM) *
I don't know what the problem was but the video shows up now, I just had to edit his post and turn the HTML on in the post. It was already allowed in the forum.


I didn't have the option to turn it on...and if I did, it was in a different place than on SoxTalk.

And of course, now it's here.
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Quinarvy
post Jun 22 2012, 10:13 PM
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I honestly think the Bulls need to look at getting young shot creators/shooters to man SG and SF, because Mirotic I think is the perfect weapon for Rose and fit for Noah, and I think Butler can be a great sixth man.

I feel like the Bulls have been building a "Roster Mk. II" around Rose, and it's this:

PG - Rose
SG - [Draftee]
SF - [Draftee]/Butler
PF - Mirotic/Gibson
C - Noah

The oldest players there would be Noah and Gibson...and they both have low NBA mileage on their legs.

The way to get that SG and SF is the Bobcats pick and trading up in drafts.
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dasox24
post Jun 22 2012, 10:52 PM
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QUOTE (Balta1701-B @ Jun 22 2012, 02:10 PM) *
I don't know what the problem was but the video shows up now, I just had to edit his post and turn the HTML on in the post. It was already allowed in the forum.

That's weird. I did the exact same thing but there was just a large blank space (where the video should have been) when I tried to edit the post, so I just changed it back. Glad to see it's working now.
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dasox24
post Jun 22 2012, 10:56 PM
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QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 22 2012, 09:54 PM) *
I love how cheap games are there. I think we've been back and forth about this before but I go to Rhodes and that usually gets me about 5 free games a year as well biggrin.gif

Yep, I remember.

And yeah, tickets are really reasonable. I really like the Forum as a venue and it's great being so close to Beale St. On a side note, I'm not sure if you know this, but interesting fact: The zip code that the FedEx Forum is technically located in was the poorest zip code in the nation about 10 years ago. With the arena and other downtown revitalization, they've come along way in improving that.
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Jake
post Jun 23 2012, 08:51 AM
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QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 22 2012, 11:13 PM) *
I honestly think the Bulls need to look at getting young shot creators/shooters to man SG and SF, because Mirotic I think is the perfect weapon for Rose and fit for Noah, and I think Butler can be a great sixth man.

I feel like the Bulls have been building a "Roster Mk. II" around Rose, and it's this:

PG - Rose
SG - [Draftee]
SF - [Draftee]/Butler
PF - Mirotic/Gibson
C - Noah

The oldest players there would be Noah and Gibson...and they both have low NBA mileage on their legs.

The way to get that SG and SF is the Bobcats pick and trading up in drafts.


That looks like a really inexpensive roster...we could probably make a signing of a big name for one of those holes. Of course in the NBA the thought of having to draft two key starters/contributors is also a bit scary biggrin.gif ... the draft seems like such a crap shoot. Not like baseball where almost nobody makes it, but not like football where almost every first rounder is fairly good. You oftentimes get a great player or a complete non-factor.

QUOTE (dasox24 @ Jun 22 2012, 11:56 PM) *
Yep, I remember.

And yeah, tickets are really reasonable. I really like the Forum as a venue and it's great being so close to Beale St. On a side note, I'm not sure if you know this, but interesting fact: The zip code that the FedEx Forum is technically located in was the poorest zip code in the nation about 10 years ago. With the arena and other downtown revitalization, they've come along way in improving that.


I like the area as well, and the Forum is a really great addition to an all too empty downtown. Since Chicago was my main exposure to a city before moving down here, I can certainly say that the Forum beats the UC as far as the area outside the stadium goes. Beale is great being right outside there, really adds to the buzz and the two feed off each other during the season. But beyond that it's eerie at times walking around on Main, etc and not seeing anyone or seeing all the empty storefronts. There is some really good infrastructure there and I hope it gets developed because the city needs it. I've watched games/played at AutoZone and it's a nice place as well. From what I hear though, like you said, this area has come a long way and there is still probably a good portion of the populace that remembers the dangerous downtown too well to really want to go there and invest there.

Since I am a tour guide at Rhodes, I can recite the completely unverified information on my part that the Beale/Forum zip code is the "safest" in the state and of course the Rhodes area code is the second safest in the metro area (do you like the subtle and arbitrary switch from statewide statistic to a local statistic? I'm well trained).
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Quinarvy
post Jun 23 2012, 12:39 PM
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QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 23 2012, 09:51 AM) *
That looks like a really inexpensive roster...we could probably make a signing of a big name for one of those holes. Of course in the NBA the thought of having to draft two key starters/contributors is also a bit scary biggrin.gif ... the draft seems like such a crap shoot. Not like baseball where almost nobody makes it, but not like football where almost every first rounder is fairly good. You oftentimes get a great player or a complete non-factor.


Yes, but the Bulls draft history gives me confidence. The only player they'be blown under GarPax is Tyrus. Even James Johnson developed into a rotational player with Toronto. And Thibs won't let players loaf around.
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Jake
post Jun 23 2012, 12:59 PM
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QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 23 2012, 01:39 PM) *
Yes, but the Bulls draft history gives me confidence. The only player they'be blown under GarPax is Tyrus. Even James Johnson developed into a rotational player with Toronto. And Thibs won't let players loaf around.


I'm not quite sure that I'm as optimistic about our draft prowess as you are, but I certainly think that we can get at least 1 good player in the next two or three drafts, with the rest hopefully being contributors as well.

I know among many fans that Paxson is not that popular, many think he's long fired if he doesn't fix the draft lottery to get Rose. I'm not sure. I think these have been good teams with some good moves to bring in players around Derrick and hiring Thibodeau was great. We overpaid Hinrich and Deng but I'm glad we were able to let go of Gordon before we had to overpay him. Boozer is an underrated deal, we probably overpaid by a bit but he straight up made us a better team. The amnesty rule can easily make that deal fair. We HAD to make a somewhat big move when we got Booz and I'm glad we didn't go after David Lee instead.
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dasox24
post Jun 25 2012, 09:02 AM
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QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 23 2012, 10:51 AM) *
I like the area as well, and the Forum is a really great addition to an all too empty downtown. Since Chicago was my main exposure to a city before moving down here, I can certainly say that the Forum beats the UC as far as the area outside the stadium goes. Beale is great being right outside there, really adds to the buzz and the two feed off each other during the season. But beyond that it's eerie at times walking around on Main, etc and not seeing anyone or seeing all the empty storefronts. There is some really good infrastructure there and I hope it gets developed because the city needs it. I've watched games/played at AutoZone and it's a nice place as well. From what I hear though, like you said, this area has come a long way and there is still probably a good portion of the populace that remembers the dangerous downtown too well to really want to go there and invest there.

Since I am a tour guide at Rhodes, I can recite the completely unverified information on my part that the Beale/Forum zip code is the "safest" in the state and of course the Rhodes area code is the second safest in the metro area (do you like the subtle and arbitrary switch from statewide statistic to a local statistic? I'm well trained).

Haha, I do like that. Very nice.

And yes, the city itself has a ton of potential. They have come a long way, but it still has it's issues. AutoZone Park is a fantastic minor league stadium and I love the downtown atmosphere of the park. Really, building AutoZone was huge in beginning the resurgence of downtown. Before that it was pretty bad.
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madisonsmadhouse
post Jun 28 2012, 07:46 AM
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Tons of charts at link.

http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-bulls-co...ract-situation/

QUOTE
This is the third of four articles on 2011 Chicago Bulls draft selection Nikola Mirotić. Today we’ll dig into the calculus behind exactly what options Chicago has to bring him over before the 2017-2018 season (yes, you read that right), given the limitations of the new CBA.

Sharp-shooting Real Madrid PF Nikola Mirotic has been tearing it up with Real Madrid, becoming the first player in the history of the Euroleague to earn the Rising Star Trophy two consecutive years. Salivating Bulls fans have repeatedly asked what options the Bulls have to bring the Spanish-naturalized Montenegrin over before his contract expires, and beat writers have generally shrugged the question off by saying, in effect, “it’s complicated.”

As it turns out, it is very, very complicated. So we’ve rolled up our sleeves to do all of the painstaking computations for the curious. The rest of the article is like sitting through a high school math class, so I’ll start with the conclusions up front:

1.It is cost prohibitive for Mirotic to come over before the 2014-2015 season.
2.The Bulls will have to use an MLE, not the Rookie Scale, to sign Mirotic (they have this option beginning in 2014). This means, barring trades, Mirotic will be the major addition in the year they bring him over - they will be unable to sign another major free agent (Chicago will only have minimum contracts and possibly the Bi-Annual Exception left to offer).
3.The full Mid-Level Exception will probably be required to sign Mirotic. The mini-MLE would be a significant pay cut even if the buyout were negotiated down to zero. This means the Bulls will only be able to sign him in a non-taxpaying year. Deng’s contract comes off the books in 2014, Boozer’s in 2015.
In the 2011 Draft, the Chicago Bulls traded their 28th and 43rd picks to Minnesota in exchange for the Rocket's 23rd pick (owned by the Timberwolves), which was used to select Mirotic. They now own his “draft rights,” which is to say that he must sign with Chicago if he comes to the NBA. Including a unilateral team option, Mirotic is under contract with Real Madrid through the 2016-2017 season. The Bulls have his draft selection “on pause” until a year after his European contract expires, so they own his draft rights through 2018.

If Mirotic does not sign with the Bulls by 2018, he has the right to re-enter the draft and be selected by another team (this would be foolish, however, since the Bulls can pay him a lot more money). If Mirotic does not sign with the Bulls by 2014 - three years after he was selected - Chicago can treat him as any other free agent, paying him with a Mid-Level Exception or…ahem…cap space (yeah right). If Mirotic were to re-enter the draft in 2018 and be selected by a new team, he’d be stuck with a rookie scale contract again, though he would be selected much higher once free of his Spanish contractual obligations. If he did re-enter the draft, but also failed to sign with his new team for an entire year, he would become a full-fledged free agent in the summer of 2019.

The Buyout
An early termination clause in Mirotic’s contract with Real Madrid sets his “buyout” at $3,149,000 [see Note 1] to defect to an NBA team any earlier than 2017-2018. The new CBA limits the amount that the Bulls can pay without having it count against team salary. Here is what they can contribute each summer:


Signing Bonus Limitations
Chicago can pay more than the above listed amounts, but any more will count against team salary, and therefore essentially comes out of Mirotic’s pocket (Chicago is paying a portion of his salary to Real Madrid instead of Mirotic). Money paid towards an international buyout (in excess of the excluded amount) is treated as a signing bonus for salary cap purposes.

Signing bonuses are often a raw deal for the players. While they get a good chunk of change upfront (up to 15% of the total value of the contract), the overall value of the contract has to be slightly less in order to include the bonus. While the entire signing bonus is paid right away, for accounting/salary cap purposes it is divided up evenly amongst guaranteed years (years not 100% guaranteed are prorated). For example, normally a team (over the soft cap) could sign a free agent for the full MLE of $5 million (in 2012), with a max raise of $225,000 per year (4.5% of the first year salary). A four-year contract would be worth $21,350,000. If they gave him the maximum signing bonus, however, the bonus is divided up evenly amongst all guaranteed years (presumably all four) to count against team salary.

The first year still must fit within any exceptions or restrictions, leading to a smaller “base” salary. The 4.5% raise only applies to the base salary, while the ¼ of the signing bonus remains constant in each year. This leads to less money overall. To maximize the signing bonus in the case of the 2012 MLE, this “base” salary would be $4,207,400. The signing bonus would be $3,170,400, with $792,600 (one quarter) counting against team salary in each of the four years. The first year base salary ($4,207,400) plus that year’s share of the bonus ($792,600) still falls within the $5,000,000 MLE. But now the player’s raises are limited to $189,333 per year (instead of $225,000). The total value of the contract now is worth $21,135,998. In exchange for receiving a hefty payment upfront, the player gives up $214,000 overall (not too bad).

Rookie Scale
The situation is much more difficult, however, with rookie scale contracts. For rookies drafted in the first round, there is a set salary scale for each draft position (#1 makes more than #30). Teams must sign the player for somewhere between 80% and 120% of this scale (rookies are almost always signed for 120%). All rookie contracts are for four years, 100% guaranteed in the first two seasons and not guaranteed in the second two seasons. Any signing bonus (international buyouts count as signing bonuses) must be evenly divided between the first two seasons, with the first year salary falling within the 80%-120% restriction both with and without the bonus. Mirotic was drafted at #23, so here is his set rookie scale salary in each year:







Mirotic’s max signing bonus for 2012-2013 would be $803,040, which is double the difference between his 120% salary and his 80% salary (because it is applied to both years 1 and 2) [Note 2]. But because his base salary is only 80% of the scale, Mirotic would take a pretty big financial hit over the life of his four-year contract. In order to receive $803,040 upfront, he would earn more than $1 million less overall. The NBA is nothing short of a loan shark, charging that kind of interest for cash advances (125% for a two year loan!), and it still wouldn't cover the entire buyout. Mirotic is clearly better off with a private loan of some sort. The table below shows the impact of accepting a max signing bonus to assist with the buyout:



But we haven’t yet factored in the opportunity cost of Mirotic giving up his $4,408,600 Real Madrid salary. When we subtract his current salary, a negative number implies he's giving up money by coming to the NBA, a positive number means he's making more, and zero means he breaks even. His Real Madrid salary runs through 2016-2017, but for the sake of comparison we’ll assume that after 2017 he could continue to sign one-year contracts with Real Madrid each year for the same amount (in all likelihood he could get a raise). The updated chart shows the impact of the buyout and giving up his salary, and the total cost to Mirotic. Note that the signing bonus is not included in the total value of the contract, since it is paid directly to Real Madrid (otherwise it would be double-counted since it is already reflected by Mirotic paying a smaller amount himself).



As you can see, Mirotic would have to give up an obscene amount of money ($14-$16 million) to leave a team and country that he loves for a Rookie Scale contract before his Real Madrid contract runs out in 2017. Starting in 2014, though, Chicago’s options open up. They will be able to pay him the full Mid-Level Exception (or the mini-MLE in years where they are above the Luxury Tax threshold), and they can minimize the negative impacts of a signing bonus by guaranteeing all four years of the contract (instead of just the first two). The first table shows what MLE and mini-MLE contracts would look like (both with and without a signing bonus of the remaining buyout or the max 15%, whichever is less), while the second table includes the differential of his foregone ACB salary.



By subtracting his current Real Madrid salary from each year, it becomes clear where Mirotic’s break even point is:



Money isn’t everything, but anything short of the full MLE will cost Mirotic substantially. All indications are that he is very happy living in Spain, a key contributor for one of the better teams in the league widely considered the best outside of the NBA (the ACB). There is no reason to believe that he would pay millions of dollars to leave. Starting in 2014, and only with the full MLE, it will begin to make financial sense for Mirotic to transfer over to the NBA.

Looking at the data, I predict that Mirotic will come over to the NBA in Chicago’s first non-taxpaying year on or after the 2014-2015 season. This will either be in 2014-2015 (Deng’s contract expiring in conjunction with a Boozer amnesty), or in 2015-2016 (Boozer’s contract expiring, letting some non-guaranteed role players walk). It will require the full MLE to pay off his entire buyout, and it will also require the full MLE for Chicago to match or raise his current salary. I can’t see Mirotic coming early for the mini-MLE. Even after his European contract runs out the mini-MLE would be a pay cut, though it could be argued that he would be playing for a larger contract three years later. All of the numbers could be tweaked slightly by fluctuations in the exchange rate (if the euro continues to tank, the NBA is more appealing) or by negotiating his 2,500,000€ buyout down (which the Bulls are allowed to do with Real Madrid), but I stand by the prediction that it will take the full MLE. And he certainly seems to be worth it.

---------------------------------

All CBA information has been taken from Larry Coon’s legendary Salary Cap FAQ website. Larry Coon is a computer scientist that is famous for being the only human on earth that understands the intricacies of the unnecessarily complex Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Note 1: Based on the euro-dollar exchange rate on the morning of 15 June.

Note 2: It appears that international buyouts in conjunction with rookie scale contracts are exempt from the signing bonus cap (15% of the total value of the contract), as the rookie scale example in question 74 of the Salary Cap FAQ breaks the 15% rule. Attempting to confirm. If the 15% rule does apply, Mirotic’s max bonus in 2012 would be $732,878 (instead of $803,040) based on a base salary of 83% of the Rookie Scale and a 15% signing bonus allocated to the first two years.
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Steve9347
post Jun 28 2012, 07:52 AM
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Honestly, this f***ing sucks.
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Jake
post Jun 28 2012, 10:24 AM
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I don't know that he is going to be worth the MLE and I can't believe we would have drafted him had we known we couldn't pay him on the rookie scale.
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ZoomSlowik
post Jun 28 2012, 10:31 AM
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I didn't realize Mirotic was making that much in Europe. That's definitely going to hurt their cause.
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2nd_city_saint78...
post Jul 1 2012, 02:33 PM
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Damn didnt read all this...I think he'll be a real good player and worth the money but there goes my Big 3 scenario.
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Jake
post Jul 1 2012, 02:48 PM
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Reading that article makes me think it is very possible that Mirotic never plays for the Bulls
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