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TalkBulls Forums _ Bulls Talk _ The Kobe Thread
Posted by: DutheDoduhon21 Oct 27 2007, 04:01 PM
By Chris Sheridan
ESPN.com
(Archive)
Updated: October 27, 2007, 4:37 PM ET
Comment
The Kobe Bryant-to-Chicago trade talks are very real, and they've been real for a while.
The Los Angeles Lakers and Chicago Bulls have been having daily discussions about Bryant trade possibilities for at least the past week, with Bryant's no-trade clause throwing a unique wrench into the situation, according to sources.
The Lakers are asking for a package built around Luol Deng, Ben Gordon, Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah, which is more than Chicago is willing to surrender. Also, Bryant would not want to play in Chicago if the Bulls surrendered all four of those players, believing there would not be enough talent left to compete for a championship, and he would veto that trade even if the Bulls and Lakers were both in favor of it.
Further complicating matters is the division within the upper echelon of the Lakers front office, a house divided between the competing desires of owner Jerry Buss, his son, Jim, daughter Jeanie (and her boyfriend, coach Phil Jackson) and general manager Mitch Kupchak. According to sources, one faction seems more determined than ever to part with Bryant, while others still are hanging onto the belief that Bryant can still be persuaded to stay in Los Angeles.
Bryant sat out the Lakers' final exhibition game Friday night in Las Vegas after injuring his right wrist in the Lakers' previous game. It has become an accepted fact around the Lakers that Bryant still wishes to be traded, and two sources with direct knowledge of the ongoing trade discussions said Bryant's preferred -- and most likely -- destination remains Chicago.
So while the NBA's only no-trade clause gives Bryant a substantial amount of leverage in determining his future, it also is hampering the Lakers in their efforts to get something approaching fair value for arguably the best player in the league. One source said the Bulls' supposed opposition to including Deng in any deal had been overstated in recent media reports.
A source told ESPN.com that the likelihood of a Bryant trade before opening night seemed higher a few days ago than it does now, and a deal going down sometime before the end of November now seemed more likely. But the situation remained fluid, and with other teams trying to lobby the Bryant camp to get on the list of his acceptable destinations, the trade possibilities surrounding Bryant only figured to increase in the days leading up to Tuesday night's start of the NBA season.
Chris Sheridan covers the NBA for ESPN Insider.
hope this isnt true, and the bulls would NEVER give up luol deng and ben gordon, seems very unlikely the trade will happen.
Posted by: ZoomSlowik Oct 27 2007, 06:57 PM
That is why Pax isn't making any deals for these superstars, everyone wants several of our key players.
Posted by: Brian Oct 27 2007, 08:16 PM
Pax is way to smart to trade gordon/deng/tyrus/noah for kobe. Can't depleet your team like that. I say Gordon, Noc, draft picks, maybe one of Tyrus/Noah.
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Oct 27 2007, 10:23 PM
Nothing is going to happen until December 15th when Nocioni is able to be traded. Then we will see a Kobe trade if at all.
Posted by: soxfan101 Oct 28 2007, 03:33 AM
Im sorry I dont even want to give up 2 of those 4 players in any trade let alone all 4. Id maybe be fine with Gordon, Noah, and Nocioni but even than not a huge fan.
Posted by: steve9347 Oct 28 2007, 09:47 AM
OH MY GOD.
Why won't the press stop with this? Deng, Gordon, Tyrus, and Noah is a ridiculous amount and no team would ever make that trade. Kobe Bryant is good, possibly the best player in the game, but that is a ridiculous amount and until I hear that Buss isn't demanding Deng then I'm not going to think that anything will get done.
Posted by: 72-10 Oct 28 2007, 09:50 AM
i have an oddly strong feeling this will go down, but def without Lou. We wont part with him and thankfully Kobe's bitching will help us keep him. I just think the idea of a potential next Jordan/Pippen combo is too good. If we can keep Noah or Noc, I'd be happy enough--with Grey playing well and mature immediatley, we are deep enough.
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Oct 28 2007, 03:25 PM
Deng isn't even close to Pippen, but its a good thought. Apparently Phil Jackson is fed up with Kobe not putting his heart and soul into these preseason games and not being prepared. I smell a T.O tirade coming up soon after L.A goes 1-7 to open the season.
Whatever, however, GET A DEAL DONE that makes sense for Kobe. He's the best player on the planet it would be moronic not to make your best effort to bring him to Chicago especially knowing that he wants to come here.
Posted by: b-riann Oct 28 2007, 04:04 PM
this is why i repeatedly keep saying i will only be happy with this trade is if deng isnt involved. if they want gordon, noc, duhon, noah and/or tyrus, id do it in a heartbeat.
again, that is just me. my brothers friend saw kobe in a coffee shop in LA and he asked kobe if he wants to play in chicago, and kobe replied "man, i'd love to".
in my mind, the guy wants here. people can say he ruins teams and all that BS, but to me its like randy moss: if he comes here and wins, then he'll keep his mouth shut and be the best player in the world that he is
hinrich, deng, kobe, joe smith, and wallace, with sef, gardner, and gray coming off the bench
Posted by: SoxFan1 Oct 28 2007, 04:12 PM
again, that is just me. my brothers friend saw kobe in a coffee shop in LA and he asked kobe if he wants to play in chicago, and kobe replied "man, i'd love to".
in my mind, the guy wants here. people can say he ruins teams and all that BS, but to me its like randy moss: if he comes here and wins, then he'll keep his mouth shut and be the best player in the world that he is
hinrich, deng, kobe, joe smith, and wallace, with sef, gardner, and gray coming off the bench
Amazing starting 5, but an incredibly weak bench.
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Oct 28 2007, 07:41 PM
It is all about depth when it comes to the postseason and if you have none your chances of winning a championship are slim and none. See the Spurs and the Pistons..
Posted by: b-riann Oct 28 2007, 08:37 PM
right. but i call that a better starting 5 then cleveland's of last year and they made the finals. with this lineup i think we can do some things.
Posted by: Balta1701-B Oct 28 2007, 09:38 PM
Making the Finals from the East is not saying that much right now. "Doing some things" is not the goal. Winning it all is the goal.
If we're getting Bryant, I want to look at the deal and think it's a bargain, plain and simple.
Posted by: Wanne Oct 28 2007, 11:15 PM
Hey....if any deal is going to happen...it HAS TO HAPPEN by this Wednesday. It's deadline day for extensions.
So...if Gordon or Deng (which is actually doubtful...Deng anyway) are going to get dealt...they have to get extended to match salaries.
All of this also means that Noc won't be going anywhere because he couldn't be traded by the 15th of Dec.
So if the Lakers take anything it'll have to be Gordon, Thomas, Noah (probably Duhon for salary reasons) and a 1st. Deng isn't going anywhere. Wallace isn't going anywhere. Noc isn't going anywhere. Jerry Buss...if you don't like that deal...suck some friggin dirt....it's all you're getting.
I don't give a crap about those GM trader things...Paxson isn't going to purge the entire roster for Mr Rapist. I personally don't want to see it happen...and Pax doesn't have to do crap.
ps...the bears suck.
Posted by: sport1016 Oct 28 2007, 11:45 PM
About needing a good bench to win a championship, that is true. But if you look at the Pistons and spurs really, you are talking about needing 3 good bench players. One of the Bulls biggest problems is that it is hard to distinguish talent wise from our 7th to our 13th best player. That is why the rotations are always terrible early in the year. Too many guys playing a few minutes not developing a consistent role or any rhythm.
Now that our best players are veterans, they could honestly stand to lose some depth. Deng and Hinrich should both be close to 40mpg this year (35.5 and 37.5 respectively last year).
The bulls want kobe, but they also think the team could be damn good as is, so they wont make a desperate deal to get him until after the season. That means if a deal goes down now Paxson is in a position of considerable power.
That means holding onto Deng. I know Kobe and Deng wouldn't be as good as MJ/Pip, but who cares? The NBA is not as good now as it was then. I think that's pretty obvious. The Suns, blazers, Jazz, and probably even the Sonics and Knicks and Pacers teams in their primes would all destroy San Antonio, Miami, or Detroit in a 7 game series.
Kobe has said if he comes here he wants to play with Ben Wallace. Great. I'm sure Kobe would re-energize Big Ben. And you have to keep Hinrich. 1) He's already signed to a reasonable deal. 2) Oh yeah. He's a perfect compliment to Kobe. Probably the best PG he's ever played with even (no disrespect to Ron Harper). They'd be the best defensive backcourt in the league, and Kirk is enough of a combo guard that he could be a useful scorer when kobe is playmaking but also give him someone reliable to play off of, something he hasn't had in his last few years.
I really think if you Keep Hinrich and Deng somehow and get Kobe their averages would go through the roof. THe same way guys playing with Nash or Shaq always have better stats. Kobe gets the same kind of attention for aggressive guys like deng and krich to really put up numbers.
Based on all acounts, the Lakers basically want 2 of kirk, deng, BG, and one or both of noah/TT, and maybe nocioni too.
Pax has leverage, I think he'd be willing to give up BG, Noah, and Nocioni without thinking too hard about it.
So negotation wise they are basically a Kirk/Deng apart and then some.
So what is Kirk/Deng + worth? How about cap relief (5 million in expiring contracts via Duhon/Khryapa) and 2 first rounders? And we agree to take back a bad contract.
So we trade BG, Noah, Nocioni, Duhon, Khryapa, and 2008 and 2010 first rounders for Kobe and Brian Cook. The money works...after Dec 15.
Active Roster:
Kirk
Kobe
Deng
TT
Wallace
--bench rotation---
Thabo/Curry
Thabo/Gardner
Thabo/Griffin
Smith/Cook
Gray/Smith
It's actually a solid bench considering thabo can sub at 3 positions for guys who will all be playing lots of minutes. He covers for a lot of people but actually should be reasonably available to do so. Joe Smith will provide steady veteran scoring off the bench as would Brian Cook or whichever underachieving pf the Lakers send us. And you can't forget it was only 17 months ago Griff was starting in the finals for Dallas. If Gray, curry, and Gardner give anything off the bench you're talking about a rotation that could absolutely win it all. Maybe not this year. But, maybe, pretty soon, win a few.
It doesn't seem like a deep team because lately we've been so much deeper than this, but this is actually solid depth for a typical team with superstars.
This is a good trade for the bulls and decent for the Lakers. Pax has the leverage for the next few months, let's see if he can use it to put us over the top.
Posted by: ZoomSlowik Oct 29 2007, 12:52 AM
So...if Gordon or Deng (which is actually doubtful...Deng anyway) are going to get dealt...they have to get extended to match salaries.
All of this also means that Noc won't be going anywhere because he couldn't be traded by the 15th of Dec.
So if the Lakers take anything it'll have to be Gordon, Thomas, Noah (probably Duhon for salary reasons) and a 1st. Deng isn't going anywhere. Wallace isn't going anywhere. Noc isn't going anywhere. Jerry Buss...if you don't like that deal...suck some friggin dirt....it's all you're getting.
I don't give a crap about those GM trader things...Paxson isn't going to purge the entire roster for Mr Rapist. I personally don't want to see it happen...and Pax doesn't have to do crap.
ps...the bears suck.
That's not really the case at all. They're both under contract for this season, so a sign and trade wouldn't work. At best they'd be base year compensation players, meaning you could only count 50% of their new deal in trades, making it pretty pointless, at worst they'd have the poison pill provision like Hinrich had last year, meaning they could only take in their previous salary while the extension amount counts against your out-going total (and I'd believe that would be the case).
Gordon or Deng would simply be traded as is, with an extension needed at the end of the year (though I'm sure LA could talk to them and get a feel for their demands beforehand).
Posted by: madisonsmadhouse Oct 29 2007, 07:56 AM
Crap, I was hoping with the season approaching this would all start to go away...
I have no problem with Gordon going to LA, they just cannot trade Luol.
Posted by: steve9347 Oct 29 2007, 08:57 AM
If someone can show me a deal that doesnt include Wallace or Deng that matches up salary-wise, then I will start to believe.
At this point I don't even think a plausible deal is even possible.
Posted by: madisonsmadhouse Oct 29 2007, 09:39 AM
At this point I don't even think a plausible deal is even possible.
If Deng is included, we better get Bynum back as well to offset the losses of Noah and Thomas.
Posted by: steve9347 Oct 29 2007, 10:23 AM
They aren't trading Deng. Don't even bother talking about that.
Posted by: ZoomSlowik Oct 29 2007, 10:47 AM
At this point I don't even think a plausible deal is even possible.
There are financially feasible deals, it just involves giving up like 5 players minimum. Gordon and his 4.8 mil salary is a fairly major start, Noah and/or Tyrus adds a few more mil, and then you close the gap by throwing in guys like Duhon, Khyrapa, Griffin, Noc if you wait until December, or maybe a sign-and-trade with Brown. Then of course there's Kirk, but he's a base-year compensation guy so it doesn't help that much. The bigger thing is matching salaries and still getting the talent close, since you're basically throwing a lot of crap at them to match the salaries without sending Deng or Hinrich (neither of which makes much sense).
Posted by: b-riann Oct 29 2007, 03:25 PM
i'd give up noc, duhon, gordon, noah, and a 1st round pick for kobe
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Oct 29 2007, 03:52 PM
Before all of this I liked the idea of trading Kirk and Ben with a backcourt of Thabo and Kobe but now that I've seen Thabo's lack of progression I don't like that idea anymore.
I've read that Kobe wants to play with Big Ben and the Bulls have already stated they are not including Deng in any Kobe related trades so throw Wallace and Deng out of the picture for players going to LA. That leaves you with these "good" players.
Kirk
Ben Gordon
Nocioni
Also you have the "Young Talent" which includes
Tyrus
Joakim Noah
Thabo
LA is going to want atleast 2 of Chicago "Good" players and its not likely we give up Kirk because we would have no point guard capable of being a starter (Duhon still sucks). So now its..
Nocioni + Gordon
If they can't get equal value for Kobe (Which they can't) they will demand a young talented player or two to help sweeten the deal. That could mean Joakim or Tyrus basically and I think Pax has always left the option open that we may not keep Noah even if we drafted him. Especially because of the signs Aaron Gray has shown so far this preseason.
Nocioni + Gordon + Noah
Those 3 players equal a grand total of $15,517,069 which still doesn't quite equal Kobe Bryant's $19,490,625 contract. Now is where the fillers come into play. I don't see much sense in keeping Khryapa because he will never get any playing time even if Nocioni leaves so throw him on board. That just about equals Kobe's contract. Now we can't just send our whole team over there so we are going to need some of there lesser players as well to stay within 12 players so they can give us Maurice Evan's expiring contract. Then you can throw in Duhon's 3 million dollar contract to finalize the deal. So the deal could be..
Nocioni + Gordon + Noah + Duhon + Khryapa for Kobe Bryant and Maurice Evans
Which means..
PG Hinrich
SG Kobe
SF Deng
PF Smith
C Wallace
Bench:
Tyrus
Thabo
Gray
Griffin
JamesOn
Gardner
That bench kind of sucks and we still need 3 more players I believe to get to the 15 player roster so we'd have to sign guys. This is why this Kobe trade is so hard to even fathom. If we can't get rid of Big Ben or Kirk, that makes the deal so hard but I just showed you one way its possible hehe.
Posted by: GreatScott82 Oct 29 2007, 04:53 PM
Phil Jackson admitting there has been talks pretty much daily with the Bulls says a lot. It says Pax is interested after all. I expect nothing to get done before December 15th. At that date the Bulls can deal Nocioni. If they extend Deng they CANT deal him until the offseason. So i highly expect them to extend Deng, not Gordon. .
I'm guessing Paxson's final offer come December 15th will be:
Nocioni (8.5 Mill), Gordon (4.88 Mill), Thomas (3.5 Mill), Khryapa ( 2 Mill) =18.88 Mill
Bryant (19.49 Mill)
I think Tyrus Thomas being involved will be the key ingrediant that gets the deal done. The Bulls will still keep Noah as they will need a back up at PF for Joe Smith. Plus there are talks that the Bulls may aqcuire Juwan Howard to bring back alittle depth to the bench.
One thing that may prevent this deal from ever happening is the Lakers or Bulls getting off to amazing starts. If this happens I expect Pax to just "wait" for the offseason.
A lineup of:
Hinrich PG - Duhon, Curry
Bryant SG - Sefolosha, Griffin
Deng SF - Griffin
Smith PF - Howard, Noah
Wallace C- Noah, Gray
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Oct 29 2007, 06:42 PM
I just can't see us getting rid of Ty Thomas when they could get rid of Noah. Like I said before I think Paxon got him in case of a Kobe trade and from what I had read after the draft reporters didn't seem to confident this guy would even be on the opening day roster because they figured he might be traded. That trade would probably work though GreatScott82 ^^
Posted by: steve9347 Oct 29 2007, 07:16 PM
We get it, you loooove Tyrus. Tyrus can do no wrong, we must hedge all our wages on him, etc etc.
At least you stick to your guns though, I respect that, but I think if Kobe comes here, Mr. Thomas goes to LA. I have a feeling that the Lakers want Tyrus more than they want Noah, because they have to get some sort of highlight reel dunker coming back.
I think GreatScott's proposed deal is very realistic and one of the better ones I've heard out there. Good work, most of these Kobe to the Bulls proposed deals have been dumb but that one was good.
Posted by: GreatScott82 Oct 29 2007, 07:22 PM
By all means... If we can get Kobe for a package of Nocioni, Gordon, Noah and Krhyapa.. YOU DO IT in a heart beat... I think that only happens if Kobe continues to back LA in a corner by December 15th. We have to remember that Kobe has a no trade clause which not only gives him leverage but it gives the Bulls leverage because they won't have to give up as much. I love Noah's energy but you get that same energy in Thomas. And i also think Gray will be more valuable to this team than Noah because of his size down low.
The fact that they are talking every day makes things interesting.. that means that a trade can't involve Nocioni if they do it now. Which would also indicate that LA wants Deng AND Gordon with probably Noah in a deal. IMO the 2 guys you can't give up are Hinrich and Deng..the reason is, they play stellar DEFENSE which is hard to come by in the NBA.
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Oct 29 2007, 10:24 PM
I just think your giving a way a whole lot of talent if you include Tyrus in the deal instead of Joakim. Yeah I like Tyrus but Joakim just screams LA at you with his personality and all. He'd make a nice fit right next to Ronnie Turiaf who is another freak of nature.
Posted by: steve9347 Oct 30 2007, 10:02 AM
Tyrus isn't the kind of player that stops a trade to get Kobe.
Seriously.
Posted by: ZoomSlowik Oct 30 2007, 10:19 AM
GreatScott, your math is a little off, though I do think that if it gets done it will look similar to that. Nocioni is a base year compensation player, which means you can only count half of his current salary in an out-going trade. That means we'd have to add a bit more crap to get close, though to fit under the rules we only need to get to about $15.5 mil. That probably just means sending like Adrian Griffin or maybe Duhon as well.
Posted by: soxfan3530 Oct 30 2007, 10:45 AM
Today they are talking about a Gordon/Noah/Thomas plus a draft pick deal. Im not even sure that would work unless maybe they sign Gordon to an extension before the trade. Anyway, if that really is the case i would do it. Even though it means trading our two young big men. You would still have a nice starting five:
PG: hinrich
SG: kobe
SF: deng
PF: smith/nocioni
C: wallace
Posted by: madisonsmadhouse Oct 30 2007, 11:24 AM
PG: hinrich
SG: kobe
SF: deng
PF: smith/nocioni
C: wallace
It sounds like a deal would be impossible if they signed either Deng or Gordon (if they were in the final trade) to an extension before the trade.
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Oct 30 2007, 03:09 PM
Don't forget we still have PJ Brown's contract which isn't up until after October 31. I forgot about that until I saw it on another forum. We would do a sign and trade and we would be able to match salaries easier to finish off a trade. So I guess it makes since that this deal could get done by tomorrow.
Posted by: AtHomeBoy_2000 Oct 31 2007, 01:24 PM
I have a very good feeling this trade will get done. I am much more happy with a Gordon/Noah/Thomas/DraftPick trade than what i was hearing before. That seems pretty fair and not really a fleasing.
Posted by: steve9347 Oct 31 2007, 01:27 PM
Take it for what it's worth, but Dan Bernstein just said that he got information that said that a deal of the following is 90% to get done within the next 48-72 hours.
Lakers get
Ron Artest
Kings get
Kirk
Bulls get
Kobe
other pieces will move, supposedly, and gordon might be out the door... but this is what he just broke with.
Posted by: ZoomSlowik Oct 31 2007, 01:45 PM
I would definitely take that with a grain of salt, since the Bulls would need to add around $10 mil to make it work. That'd be hard to do without adding other major pieces, unless the Lakers are going to take a gigantic sign and trade with Brown.
Man, that means Duhon or Sefolosha starting at PG, or possibly Gordon. Yeesh. I'd MUCH rather see Gordon as the centerpiece, Kirk can have an awful lot of value as a complementary guard that can limit turnovers, play defense, and stick the wide-open jumpers he's bound to get with decent regularity. I just don't think Sefolosha is ready, Duhon can't score/shoot, and Gordon as a PG on both ends worries me.
Obviously value-wise it's a no-brainer, but it doesn't seem to make sense with the rest of the team, you take a major hit at PG and end up with two SG's.
Posted by: kyyle23 Oct 31 2007, 01:46 PM
Lakers get
Ron Artest
Kings get
Kirk
Bulls get
Kobe
other pieces will move, supposedly, and gordon might be out the door... but this is what he just broke with.
Ha, I would love to see Phil Jackson deal with Ron Artest. If Gordon is out the door, and Kirk goes to Sacramento, that really leaves a void at guard
Posted by: steve9347 Oct 31 2007, 02:29 PM
Phil Jackson has openly stated he'd love to have Ron Artest
Posted by: kyyle23 Oct 31 2007, 02:31 PM
There is always the saying "Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it"
Artest in LA is a recipe for disaster. Especially considering that he would be the star player on that team after the trade
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Oct 31 2007, 03:08 PM
The trade involves Sacremento giving up Ron Artest.
Chi gets: Kobe
SAC gets: Tyrus Thomas or Joakim Noah, Khryapa, Hinrich
LA gets: Artest, Gordon
Posted by: soxfan3530 Oct 31 2007, 03:29 PM
Im not sure the Score knows what they are talking about. They also said there was no way Paxson would trade Deng or Kirk so who knows. It might be too much giving up hinrich/gordon/noah/thomas. yikes.
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Oct 31 2007, 03:30 PM
My prediction:
Gordon, Kirk and the others start tonight, nothing happens tonight as far as a trade but tomorrow there will be a report that the deal has been made and everyone will go insane but they won't announce it till later tommorrow night and we give up my favorite player Tyrus Thomas 
Posted by: scs787 Oct 31 2007, 04:18 PM
if they can get a trade done that doesnt involve deng then i say go go for it. honestly i think the team would be clearly better. I like Duhon at the point with a player like kobe on the team, we dont really need hinrichs shooting with a guy like kobe and also deng getting the majority of the points, they just need a point that knows how to get the ball to the 2 stars. I would also like Kobe running the point strictly for the fact that he demands double teams and can be a slasher point like tont parker or well kobe bryant. If the deal does happen and noc isnt involved I can see kobe driving to the basket and kicking it out to noc for 3.
what would you guys rather see
pg kobe
sg thabo
or
pg duh
sg kobe
a stat i like lookin at is in the 04-05 season kobe bryant averaged 6 assists per game along with 27ppg. Hinrichs best season he averaged 6.3 and 16.6. if we can get a season like that out of kobe thats just a .3 drop off in assists with a 11 point upgrade.
make it happen pax.
anyone know if earl boykins is still a free agent....if so what do you guys think about him running the point
Posted by: SoxFan1 Oct 31 2007, 04:32 PM
Radio reports say Wallace and Gordon leaving...
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Oct 31 2007, 04:46 PM
ESPN reported that the deal with Chi sending Gordon and Wallace to LA for Kobe is not exactly dead but the deal fell through because LA balked at Wallace's contract. The deal also involved the Kings. He says talks are hotter than ever and its likely this deal gets tweaked to LA's liking within the next 24-48 hours.
Do we give in and let them have Deng instead of Gordon to get Kobe? I don't think so..
Posted by: scs787 Oct 31 2007, 05:07 PM
Do we give in and let them have Deng instead of Gordon to get Kobe? I don't think so..
lets hope not, with Deng and Kobe i see no less than the conference finals.
as for the wallace deal, if the deal is done with out T2 then im for it but i dont wanna see thomas and wallace leave.
can smith handle the Center position??
Posted by: DrunkBomber Oct 31 2007, 05:09 PM
Im damned curious to see whats gonna happen with this. As long as we dont give up Deng, which I really doubt we would, I would love to bring in Kobe.
Posted by: Bullseye Oct 31 2007, 06:13 PM
I don't love the idea of trading Wallace, but better him then Deng or Hinrich. Plus, it would be nice to get rid of his ridiculously overpriced contract for a player on the decline like he is.
Posted by: Sanitarium Oct 31 2007, 07:01 PM
I dont see LA taking Wallace at all. And we have the edge on this deal because if we give up anything that would detract from our core Kobe will nix the deal and it falls through. I'm kind of attached to most of the players we got and I think we have some good potential in Thomas so I don't really want to see anyone traded but I'm thinking the most likely man is Gordon, with Kobe taking over his spot. I don't see Deng going anywhere. Possibly Hinrich but Hinrich and Gordon would be bad for us because that means Duhon has to start. YIKES.
Posted by: steve9347 Oct 31 2007, 07:01 PM
I really think Kobe is going to be a Chicago Bull within 48 hours. 
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Oct 31 2007, 07:17 PM
We need him. I know its one game but from what I've seen so far we don't look like an exciting team.
Posted by: ZoomSlowik Oct 31 2007, 07:19 PM
Wow, all of one half of basketball. I love making conclusions based off 1/164th of the season.
Come on, it's the first game of the season against a team we've had trouble with in the past. I'm not worried, we'll still finish towards the top of the East regardless.
Posted by: Sanitarium Oct 31 2007, 07:20 PM
per ESPN the deal that fell through was:
Bulls GET: Kobe
Lakers GET: Ron Artest, PJ Brown
Kings GET: Ben Gordon, Ben Wallace
pretty sure thats what it was... i might have PJ and Wallace switched around.
Posted by: GreatScott82 Oct 31 2007, 07:22 PM
I agree.. Kobe is going to be a Bull and it will be very soon. Now its just a matter of who we give up? But i do know there will most definitley be a third team involved, rather it be Sacramento or Phoenix or whoever...
I know Kobe wants to play with big Ben but he MOST definitley wants to play with Luol. It appears that LA doesn't want Ben's contract so if the deal is tweaked i can see something happening...
Posted by: GreatScott82 Oct 31 2007, 07:26 PM
If Phoenix comes back into talks it can go like this:
Bulls: Kobe
Lakers: Marion, Gordon
Suns: Wallace
We lose that defensive presence down low, but that just means Ty Thomas and Noah really need to step it up.
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Oct 31 2007, 08:00 PM
Lol I thought it was funny to find out that if SAC doesn't get Kobe in the three way deal they want no part of it. Um, duh? Thats the whole reason they're involved to help us get Kobe and to help the Lakers get the pieces they want.
I can't understand why LA would rather have Gordon and Marion over Artest and Gordon; granted they may not want another "attitude if you know what I mean. I have a feeling that if nothing gets done by this coming weekend, Pax may just call this whole thing off either for good or until the trade deadline comes up. He won't want this to be a distraction and if LA is being ignorant with their trade demands the Bulls can't let this loom over there heads for an entire season.
Why does Chris Buchard keep bringing up Dallas as a front runner? They haven't been involved in any deals like ever.. Its the Bulls or nothing. I'm kind of hoping its maybe either Kirk and Wallace going or Gordon and Noah with picks. This assuming there is a 3rd team in this deal so LA can get the players they need.
Posted by: RME JICO Oct 31 2007, 08:27 PM
From Rotoworld:
The three-team deal with the Kings likely also would have involved Kirk Hinrich, but if Kobe ends up going to the Bulls, Sacramento apparently won't be a third team involved.
Hinrich and Wallace for Kobe. Do it now.
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Oct 31 2007, 08:48 PM
Hinrich and Wallace for Kobe. Do it now.
Where do I sign? And why the hell would SAC be out of it? They obviously know Kobe doesn't want to go there he is going to the Bulls or he's going nowhere.
Posted by: Schalke Oct 31 2007, 09:03 PM
No need to rush things. Pax just needs to play his cards right. 3 or 4 more stinkers in LA and Kobe will go crazy, leaving LA with no other choice. Cuban said today that Dallas isn't pursuing him anymore, that means the Bulls are basically the only team with any interest and should be able to get him for peanuts.
Posted by: GreatScott82 Oct 31 2007, 09:06 PM
well if we have peanuts on our roster that cost around 20 million than it can be done
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Oct 31 2007, 09:07 PM
I just don't want to get into such a deep hole early if nothing happens. I mean the players HAVE to be thinking about being traded even during the game, I think it showed early in the game today. If we keep bringing up rumors or proposed deals maybe a guy like Deng or Gordon will completely suck and LA won't want either one anymore. I'd like to know now or never if this deal is going to happen.
If I were Pax if this deal doesn't get completed by Sunday night I'd tell the team there will be no Kobe trades atleast until the deadline to relieve some stress on their minds. Although I still think something gets done tomorrow afternoon 
Posted by: Schalke Oct 31 2007, 09:23 PM
We only have to send out 14.6 million. So Gordon and Thomas, along with crap like Thabo and Viktor, and you're pretty close.
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Oct 31 2007, 09:34 PM
I've recreated a thread so that we can keep all the recent talks going in one thread. The other one was first off a initial report so this one can start with everything recent until the day he is traded, hopefully soon.
Cuban says NO!
ESPN -
During Wednesday night's game against the Cleveland Cavaliers , Mavs' owner Mark Cuban said that the team is not pursuing a trade for the Los Angeles Lakers star.
"We haven't talked to them," Cuban told ESPN's Lisa Salters during a sideline interview. "It's not gonna happen. We've got a great squad. We like it."
Cuban was asked if the team has any interest at all in Bryant.
"We're always looking for bargains, but I don't think they're going to give us any bargains," he said.
According to ESPN's Ric Bucher the Lakers are now actively looking to move the nine-time All-Star.
Initial trade that fell through
ESPN -
ESPN is reporting that a three-way trade involving the Lakers, Bulls and Kings is now dead but has been discussed.
The Lakers would acquire Ron Artest and Ben Wallace; the Kings would acquire Ben Gordon and P.J. Brown, while the Bulls would get Kobe Bryant.
Keeping everyone up to date on all the latest!
Posted by: Brian Oct 31 2007, 09:37 PM
Probably could just merge this with the thread below it...do we have admins around here?
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Oct 31 2007, 09:45 PM
This is for all the latest info. I thought we may need a more current thread now that everyone knows a trade is likely.
Posted by: TeaLeafReaderII Oct 31 2007, 10:28 PM
why were they screwing around trying to make this trade work while they should have been talking to Deng's agent?
Posted by: steve9347 Oct 31 2007, 11:23 PM
because kobe bryants the bes tFUCKING player in the NBA?
Posted by: TeaLeafReaderII Oct 31 2007, 11:49 PM
the deadline to trade for kobe wasn't tonight... the deadline for keeping deng at a somewhat reasonable price was.
Posted by: sport1016 Nov 1 2007, 01:56 AM
OK i merged these topics bc they are covering the exact same thing, but I think Kobe-gate has gotten big enough that multiple topics on the subject are acceptable at this point
Posted by: steve9347 Nov 1 2007, 01:20 PM
Dan Bernstein is talking about this right now. I'll try to keep up.
He still says "Kobe Bryant to become a Bull" by tomorrow afternoon still a 90% possibility.
He says Kobe is in charge of this. Deals are talked about that are put in front of Kobe and he has rejected them all... they have already agreed on deals and Kobe has turned them down.
The player mentioned the most by "people who know what's going on" is Kirk Hinrich.
Kirk is young, desirable, defends, and under contract for a reasonable amount. Kobe knows that Kirk dominates the ball, moreso than any other Bull (amount of time on shotclock with ball in hands, not necessarily shots).
The Deng stuff is purely Bryant. The Bulls are more than willing to deal Deng but Bryant refuses to move without Deng staying in Chicago. All names are on the table.
Kobe wants to be a Bull, Bulls want Kobe, Kobe wants to be a Bull entirely on his own terms.
There are a lot of people who want this deal to get done, but its incredibly complicated involving a 3rd team. A deal proposed yesterday would have involved a player going to the Lakers who was then sent to the Cavaliers (Bibby to the Cavs).
Paxson stayed home yesterday to work on this deal, but the game actually being played delayed negotiations. Until John Paxson says this thing is over, it is very active right now.
This is from Bernstein, who has very reliable connections with the Bulls.
Posted by: madisonsmadhouse Nov 1 2007, 02:15 PM
I wonder if the lack movement on a contract extention was the sign we all should have been looking for that Pax was willing to deal Ben and/or Deng? That makes a lot more sense.
Posted by: 72-10 Nov 1 2007, 02:33 PM
I recently heard the possibility of a Kirk and Ben Wallace package...
Posted by: steve9347 Nov 1 2007, 02:35 PM
you're about 24 hours late on breaking that news.
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Nov 1 2007, 02:45 PM
Hmm well Pax did what I thought he should, he put these talks to rest.
Chicago general manager John Paxson put an end to more than a week of feverish speculation, declaring, "There's not a deal to be done" in the Kobe Bryant sweepstakes following Thursday's practice.
"It's time to put it to rest," Paxson said.
Paxson acknowledged having several conversations with the Lakers regarding Bryant but refused to divulge specifics. It's known that the Bulls engaged in multiple talks trying to engineer three-team trades, but nothing ever got close, Paxson said.
Paxson refused to say his team was distracted by the daily rumors regarding the incident, saying merely that the Bulls "played poorly" in Wednesday's season-opening loss the Nets.
Though it could be likely that he is just saying this just to say it.. There has been so many rumors over the last 24 hours, maybe its his way of telling Kobe "Accept any trade or screw you" because of his trade clause Kobe doesn't want to lose Deng to the Lakers. I wish we got Kobe but of course nothing is going to happen...
Posted by: MurcieOne Nov 1 2007, 03:24 PM
John Paxon will be remembered in one of two ways
1) Genius.... he skipped on Kobe and the Bulls core led them to a championship
2) The GM who could have traded for the Next Jordan.... didnt.... and kept a mediocre team together that ultimately didnt have a superstar and never won a title
I'll be honest - I think there is a greater chance the latter of the two will happen.
Posted by: steve9347 Nov 1 2007, 03:27 PM
1) Genius.... he skipped on Kobe and the Bulls core led them to a championship
2) The GM who could have traded for the Next Jordan.... didnt.... and kept a mediocre team together that ultimately didnt have a superstar and never won a title
I'll be honest - I think there is a greater chance the latter of the two will happen.
As do I. How much better or different do the Bulls look in 2007-08 than they did in 2005-06?
Sure, he had to deal Eddy, but we cashed in Tyson for Ben Wallace... whee.
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Nov 1 2007, 03:34 PM
I hate to think he is a conservative gm but he is. I don't want to act like I knew what was going on in his office going through numerous trade offers but he's GOT to bring this guy to Chicago. If it means giving up Deng DO IT! But not Deng AND Gordon, one or the other or neither. I know Kobe wants Lu but if he wants to be traded he is going to have to accept the fact that he isn't always going to get what he wants. He wanted traded so the organization granted that to him but now he's acting like a GM which he is not. Either you want to come here Kobe or you don't, figure it out.
I think what might have happened here is that Pax went through about 2-3 different deals but LA backed off and it pissed Paxson off to the point where you just say "Screw them" and thats basically what he did today. I hate the fact that this happened but If im in that situation I'd get pissed off to if the Lakers were piddle farting around with this deal and being too picky. I'd just say "fish you, good luck this season with your disgruntled athlete." Pax probably did the right thing here if it is what I think it is. I hope im not right, hopefully talks are still very much alive and there will be a trade to announce within a day or so otherwise I'm going to get tired of it and say screw Kobe.
Posted by: Sanitarium Nov 1 2007, 07:40 PM
I doesn't matter if Paxson wants to give up deng or not - thats Kobe. Kobe wants to win a championship, and he knows hes going to have the best chance with Lu.
Posted by: GreatScott82 Nov 1 2007, 07:55 PM
Talks will once again heat up around December 15th when Nocioni can be dealt... Im sticking to my original deal:
Nocioni, Gordon, Thomas and Khryapa. This will happen esspecially if Kobe continues to bad mouth the Laker organization and state his unhappyness.
For now im going to enjoy watching this team.. we almost finally took one in NJ but came just short... Lets win the home opener tommorow and go from there.
Posted by: Sanitarium Nov 1 2007, 08:42 PM
General manager John Paxson basically squashed the notion that the Los Angeles Lakers' superstar will wind up in Chicago, saying the teams were never on the verge of a deal and talks were over for now.
"There's not a deal done," he said Thursday. "There's not going to be a deal done. All the things that were out there were really unfair to all of us who were trying to do our jobs. The misinformation ... I think gets in the way of the process. It's just such a complicated thing and we kind of put it to rest now."
Paxson said they discussed "parameters," but the sides "never got down to the nuts and bolts of it because there was never a deal to be done."
"That's the reality of it," he said. "People can make what they want of it, but what I know is that part of it is over with."
The trade deadline isn't until February, so it's possible talks between the Lakers and Bulls could resume.
"Who knows?" Paxson said. "The reality is that right now, it's done."
Paxson was concerned the issue would become a distraction, so he decided to put it to rest.
"I think today sends a message that our guys don't have to worry about anything right now," Paxson said.
Then again, coach Scott Skiles wondered: "What's resolving anything in all sports until the trading deadline?"
"Just because this rumor at some point dies down, does that mean another one's not going to crop up in two weeks?" he asked. "It's ongoing, it's all the time. Now, this is one that involves a very, very high profile player, so I understand the extra attention on it."
Luol Deng acknowledged the Kobe questions are wearing on him.
"I am," he said when asked if he's annoyed by them. "But you guys want to get to the bottom of it so I've just got to keep answering your questions."
Posted by: b-riann Nov 1 2007, 10:22 PM
Nocioni, Gordon, Thomas and Khryapa. This will happen esspecially if Kobe continues to bad mouth the Laker organization and state his unhappyness.
For now im going to enjoy watching this team.. we almost finally took one in NJ but came just short... Lets win the home opener tommorow and go from there.
not so fast on khryapa, hes a stud. kobe may veto the trade if hes involved
Posted by: MurcieOne Nov 1 2007, 11:01 PM
if the deal with the kings would have went through.... the Bulls would have been scary good.
Posted by: MurcieOne Nov 1 2007, 11:13 PM
I'm still in disbelief that Kobe Bryant could be a bull.... and for whatever reason (barring gutting a team) the deal isnt going to get done.
I understand what reservations people have about the guy.... but hes the best basketball player alive right now, and would completely take over Chicago.
Pax.... grow a pair, seriously.
Posted by: SoxFan1 Nov 2 2007, 12:19 AM
I understand what reservations people have about the guy.... but hes the best basketball player alive right now, and would completely take over Chicago.
Pax.... grow a pair, seriously.
Michael Jordan is still alive, last I checked.
Posted by: madisonsmadhouse Nov 2 2007, 07:16 AM
I think what might have happened here is that Pax went through about 2-3 different deals but LA backed off and it pissed Paxson off to the point where you just say "Screw them" and thats basically what he did today. I hate the fact that this happened but If im in that situation I'd get pissed off to if the Lakers were piddle farting around with this deal and being too picky. I'd just say "fish you, good luck this season with your disgruntled athlete." Pax probably did the right thing here if it is what I think it is. I hope im not right, hopefully talks are still very much alive and there will be a trade to announce within a day or so otherwise I'm going to get tired of it and say screw Kobe.
From what I read, it's Kobe that was screwing up the trades. It sounds like the Bulls and LA agreed a few times, and Kobe vetoed it because he didn't like the team he would be left with in Chicago.
Posted by: steve9347 Nov 2 2007, 09:29 AM
I'm over it. Let's move on with what we've got, and if Buss comes to us at the deadline with a good deal, we take it, if not, the Lakers can enjoy missing the playoffs.
Posted by: madisonsmadhouse Nov 2 2007, 10:29 AM
I agree. We have our core, let's play ball.
Posted by: Balta1701-B Nov 2 2007, 10:55 AM
Win the whole f***ing thing this year and the Kobe talk stops.
Posted by: Sanitarium Nov 2 2007, 03:25 PM
If this happens, way better than getting Kobe. If this team can prove it has the talent to win a championship... BOOM. Dynasty baby.
Posted by: The Dude Abides Nov 3 2007, 10:05 AM
My 2 cents...
I believe the trade is done and agreed to. Kobe wouldnt come to chicago if we traded Deng. Supposedly the Lakers 2nd choice was Nocioni. Since he can't be traded until 12/15, they announced there is no trade. This makes sense bc Pax doesnt want the bulls distracted for the next 6 weeks and brings Kobe here to a team with a losing record....
I wouldnt be suprised if this trade was announced at 12:01 am on 12/15...
Gordon, Nocioni, Wallace and a draft pick....(I think the Lakers will have to throw in 1 or 2 players for salary and roster purposes)
(I'm hoping Kobe wants Tyrus here too!)
You can tell this Bulls team is not right. They were completely inept in the 4th quarter last night against the sixers. Hinrich couldnt hit anything and kept turning it over and Gordon was forcing his game. If we had Kobe...we would win games like that in the 4th...Plus, he draws so much attention that Deng and Tyrus would benefit greatly.
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Nov 3 2007, 10:12 AM
I believe the trade is done and agreed to. Kobe wouldnt come to chicago if we traded Deng. Supposedly the Lakers 2nd choice was Nocioni. Since he can't be traded until 12/15, they announced there is no trade. This makes sense bc Pax doesnt want the bulls distracted for the next 6 weeks and brings Kobe here to a team with a losing record....
I wouldnt be suprised if this trade was announced at 12:01 am on 12/15...
Gordon, Nocioni, Wallace and a draft pick....(I think the Lakers will have to throw in 1 or 2 players for salary and roster purposes)
(I'm hoping Kobe wants Tyrus here too!)
You can tell this Bulls team is not right. They were completely inept in the 4th quarter last night against the sixers. Hinrich couldnt hit anything and kept turning it over and Gordon was forcing his game. If we had Kobe...we would win games like that in the 4th...Plus, he draws so much attention that Deng and Tyrus would benefit greatly.
I agree with your assessment on the Bulls looking lackadaisical this season. I never saw their second game but I've heard from everyone else they didn't play a tough 48 minutes. This trade needs to be done. I hope we include Nocioni in this deal because he has look awful, I mean not only dreadful but damn near ridiculously lousy. If we can give up him and Wallace's contract along with either Gordon or Deng I would just agree to the trade. Wallace currently sucks now, 3 rebounds the other day, 4 last night; that isn't what we are paying him for. I wonder if Tyrus can put a few games together like last night. I wish I freaking could have seen the game...
Posted by: MB33 Nov 4 2007, 09:17 AM
duno if the money is equal but i would trade gordon,nocioni,noah and a draft pick we need a change lets get something done if not wait till nocioni can get traded
Posted by: b-riann Nov 4 2007, 10:29 AM
how about wallace, noah, gordon, duhon, and a 1st round pick? that probably wouldnt work because they want tyrus
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Nov 4 2007, 11:44 AM
Right now I'd give them Deng, Kirk and Wallace for Kobe and a filler. That would be thee best deal they could ask for. I'm tired of watching the same spiff every year. Last year it was a 3-9 start, the year before that it was like 0-9.. SKILES, GET THE TEAM READY DAMN IT! 0-3 is pretty bad but even worse that all of those teams we lost to probably weren't really considered to be playoff contenders this year.
Posted by: b-riann Nov 4 2007, 01:40 PM
kobe says he'd veto it if we put deng in it, b/c he wants to play with luol. also, i dont want duhon as my starting PG if we trade kirk. how about- wallace, gordon, noah, and a 1st round pick
Posted by: Balta1701-B Nov 6 2007, 02:50 PM
Nothing new here, but I think folks absolutely must read this piece by http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=KobeWorth-071106&action=login&appRedirect=http:/%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dford_chad%26page%3dKobeWorth-071106on the true value of Kobe Bryant.
Posted by: steve9347 Nov 6 2007, 03:02 PM
If only it mattered what Chad Ford thinks.
Posted by: madisonsmadhouse Nov 6 2007, 03:12 PM
Its an interesting point/counterpoint, but I really think they are waiting until the Noc contract can be dealt to get a deal done.
Posted by: Sense-A Nov 18 2007, 10:57 AM
I would NOT like to see kobe as a chicago bull. I think I don't like Kobe for the same reasons Phil Jackson doesn't like Kobe. He doesn't give it his all 100% of the time. Same with shaq. kobe has a bigger ego than michael jordan or scottie pippen had, former chicago bulls that always played 100%..
Kobe would not make a good chicago bull player
Posted by: 72-10 Nov 18 2007, 11:24 AM
I heard that Kobe is going to be buying MJ's house in Lake forest (I believe) after all MJ's divorce stuff is settled....probably BS, but also might support the idea of waiting for Noc, etc...
Posted by: 72-10 Nov 18 2007, 11:26 AM
I would NOT like to see kobe as a chicago bull. I think I don't like Kobe for the same reasons Phil Jackson doesn't like Kobe. He doesn't give it his all 100% of the time. Same with shaq. kobe has a bigger ego than michael jordan or scottie pippen had, former chicago bulls that always played 100%..
Kobe would not make a good chicago bull player
----I absolutely hate Kobe's personality and attitude, but he always plays 100%, I cannot say any different. He is actually playing quite inspired right now, for whatever reason: unselfish, and of course, taking on the leadership in the clutch....The Lakers are not playing too shabby actually......
Posted by: Sense-A Nov 22 2007, 10:19 PM
Kobe would not make a good chicago bull player
----I absolutely hate Kobe's personality and attitude, but he always plays 100%, I cannot say any different. He is actually playing quite inspired right now, for whatever reason: unselfish, and of course, taking on the leadership in the clutch....The Lakers are not playing too shabby actually......
Perhaps i am incorrect with my "not 100%" comment. In other words what I mean to say is he is too flamboyant a player. Rather than cater to a star player like Kobe I'd rather the Bulls just come into their own or seek roster additions elsewhere, without sacrificing young prospering talent. playing musical chairs with their roster isn't going to get them a championship.
Posted by: MB33 Nov 25 2007, 09:07 AM
we need to shake this team up because we are not going anywhere with this passion of play!!Bring in a post player!
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