J.R. Smith, Maybe Paxson's only bad move? Options

[eddog2]

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nba/...5041317,00.html

I came across this article and was wondering if maybe Paxson gave away J.R. Smith for too little. Imagine how much more Denver may have been willing to give up if it had come close to the season without acquiring a SG. With Wells off the market I think Denver would have been willing to possibly give up a first rounder.

Anyway, I think J.R. is going to fit nicely next to Melo and Martin. It should really open him up to be a force offensively. He may not be the greatest defensive player but he can always improve in that area.

I must say I was really excited when we got J.R. from New Orleans and I was disappointed when we traded him away for so little. I'm not sure if the second round picks we picked up will amount to anything but I doubt they will amount to anything great. I really think we would have been better off keeping Smith at least until the season started or somewhere around the trading deadline when his value would likely have been much higher. However, Paxson made the choice to get rid of the "distraction"

I just wanted to revisit the issue and see what others thought of our trading for J.R. and then trading him away for not much in return?

[Balta1701-B]

I think that there was some risk and some level of disappointment in letting Smith go for practically nothing, and he'll probably make some people wish the Bulls had kept him if he performs well in Denver.

But here's my take: If Little Ben and Thabo can together put together good numbers out of the shooting guard spot this season...then no matter what Smith does in Denver, short of putting up 35 ppg this year, the Bulls will have made the right choice in letting him go.

All having him would have done is cut into the playing time of the other two...maybe significantly. With 2 young guys we're trying to develop at that position, adding in a 3rd just would cut down on playing time for everyone.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

What if jr turns out to be better than gordon??


I highly doubt it, but I definitely was hoping to get much more for (first) the tyson trade, and afterwards, jr smith.

[madisonsmadhouse]

Smith might end up being something, he might not be. But I will agree this kid wasn't the guy we needed right now. We needed someone who could step in and defend right away on the defensive end, not someone with a good offensive game and questionable work ethic. Plus the point about his taking away from the time of our other guards is spot on.

[eddog2]

Yeah. I agree that we need to play our other shooting guards more to continue to develop them. But maybe we made a bad trade. I love P.J. Brown but was it worth it to get him for one year (unless Paxson truly plans to resign him at the veteran minimum next season). Basically we traded a young talent for one year of an aging effective big man and two second round picks.

I think even at $10 million Tyson was worth more then that. Take a look at Nene. Everyone acts like he is an awesome players. He got $10 million and he is not even as good as Tyson. (better offensively not defensively.) Anyway, I really think a first round pick should have been involved. Why even take J.R. Smith in the first place. New Orleans could have give the Bulls a first rounder and P.J. Brown and then traded J.R. to Denver or elsewhere for 2 second round picks.

I really think that Paxson went too cheap on Tyson. He sucked the Knicks dry with Curry but he went to soft on the Hornets for Tyson. I fully expect Tyson to prove that in the next few years.

[Serbbojo]

well we didnt really trade Chandler for those guys specifically, we basically made that move for financial reasons. Brown comes off the books after this year meaning we will have more significant cap space to spend next offseason. Basically we traded chandler so we would have the opportunity to sign hinrich, noc, deng and gordon.

tho i think we couldve gotten more for JR Smith, maybe a future first rounder, but keeping JR would just take away minutes from gordon and thabo who i think will have good seasons this year

[eddog2]

Yes. I know that was Paxson's true motivation. We get a veteran free agent who will produce this year and maybe help up go deep into the playoffs. Then his money comes off the books and we can resign players or pursue another free agent. It is pretty smart.

But it doesn't hurt to have first round picks instead of second round picks. Second round picks rarely amount to anything. However, mid to late first rounders are valuable trade bait or usually produce a decent role player which championship teams need. Either way, our team is stacked. I just wish we could have gotten more for Tyson. (or J.R. whichever way you want to look at it). Other than Duhon which second rounders have made a significant impact on our team. (Nocioni wasn't drafted but finds like that don't happen very often).

Paxson has set the Bulls up to be contenders for several years. He is a great GM and I am sure he has plans with those second round picks. Hopefully his plans work out and Big Ben (earns his contract). Otherwise he will have an overpaid aging Tyson Chandler on his hands.

[Serbbojo]

there are actually quite a few second round players to make impacts

arenas, Ginobili, mehmet okur, michael redd, rashard lewis, Nick Van Exel, there are prolly a lot more. you can get good players if you look hard enough. Paxson seems to be good at evaluting talent so if he keeps this picks im sure he can get quality players

[eddog2]

there are actually quite a few second round players to make impacts

arenas, Ginobili, mehmet okur, michael redd, rashard lewis, Nick Van Exel, there are prolly a lot more. you can get good players if you look hard enough. Paxson seems to be good at evaluting talent so if he keeps this picks im sure he can get quality players

Well that wasn't my arguement. I said "we" "we as in the Bulls" "as in I know other teams have gotten steals in the 2nd round" really haven't utilized our second round picks too well. We got Duhon who is decent but we drafted players like Trenton Hassell over Arenas. We can maybe use the second rounders to move up a spot or 2 in the draft but the point is I think we could have gotten more then 2 second rounds for J.R. I think Denver would have given up a 1st rounder (or some other team might have).

"I said which 2nd rounders other than Duhon have had a significant impact on the Bulls?"

[Serbbojo]

the bulls havent had many 2nd round picks under Paxson. and paxson has proven he has the ability to select quality players

[eddog2]

the bulls havent had many 2nd round picks under Paxson. and paxson has proven he has the ability to select quality players

Here is a list of Paxson's second round picks

2003 - 2 round 7 pick Mario Austin (will he ever be a Bulls?) (Steve Blake was the 9th pick. Zaur Pachulia
was the 13th pick, Maurice Williams was the 18th pick, Kyle Korver
was the 22nd pick.)

2003 - 2 round 16 pick Matt Bonner (to Toronto)
2003 - 2 round 24 pick Tommy Smith
2004 - 2 round 2 pick Jackson Vroman (Anderson Varejao was picked one spot higher. He would look
nice as a back up PF on the Bulls. Trevor Ariza was taken as
the 14th pick in the second round. He wouldn't look bad either.
2004 - 2 round 9 pick Chris Duhon


I guess 1 out of 4 (really 5 but we traded one of our picks) is not bad. But there were players available the first time and second time around that could have made some positive impacts on our team.

Imagine having Zaza Pachulia to back up Ben Wallace/P.J. Brown. Zaza is only 22 years old going on 23. Anderson Varejao wouldn't be a bad back-up either. Nor would Trevor Ariza. The point is, there is usually some talent in the 2nd round. But the Bulls rarely if ever seem to find the steal of the second round. And that is w/ or without Paxson making the picks. Sure he might do a better job then Krause in the second round but thus far he hasn't produced much.

Krause was horrible though. Trenton Hassell over Gilbert Arenas & Mehmet Okur, Roger Mason Jr. over Carlos Boozer, A.J. Guyton Kalid El-Ahmin & Jake Voskhul over Micheal Redd (yes 3 chances to get it wrong), Shammond Williams over Cutino Mobley)

Anyway, you get the point. I don't think anyone can be as bad as Krause in terms of evaluating second round talent. So hopefully the Bulls do the smart thing and trade those second round picks in a package for something good.

[Serbbojo]

mario austin was a pretty good player, but he ran into some problems with his lungs which basically ended his chances of playing with the bulls.

Jackson Vroman and Matt Bonner were both traded. Vroman was included in the deal where we got Luol Deng. So our second rounds picks were just duhon, austin and smith, 1 out of 3 is pretty good

[madisonsmadhouse]

well we didnt really trade Chandler for those guys specifically, we basically made that move for financial reasons. Brown comes off the books after this year meaning we will have more significant cap space to spend next offseason. Basically we traded chandler so we would have the opportunity to sign hinrich, noc, deng and gordon.

We made the move to stay under the luxury cap while signing Wallace.