What should be the plan going forward? Options

[Chicago Bulls Fr...]

Now that Task 1 is finished (Firing Skiles) we must decide what to do next. I'm sure John is evaluating his players every second and even said that he was going to make some personnel changes which means a trade or two will be coming (yeah!). The players I see on the hot seat are.

-Gordon
-Deng
-Kirk
-Big Ben

Pax has also said he was going to be more involved with the rotation and how he wants players developed so if you see Tyrus playing 30 minutes a night that will be very telling.. He is the one guy I don't see going anywhere at all now. I'm sure that was probably brought up during the Skiles vs Paxson "Heated" argument Saturday night and Paxson wasn't pleased with his minutes and probably Thabo's.

There have been several rumors that Ben Wallace is going to be involved in a deal that could land us Jason Kidd and Jason Collins. The deal was thought to be Kirk and Ben. I say we go for the superstar and the one superstar that still has a little prime left in him is Tracy McGrady. If we can get him by selling them Big Ben and a few others I would do it in a heartbeat. It looks like he doesn't fit into their system.

It starts with a superstar, the next thing is to build around that guy and create the style of play that you want in your team. I think Paxson should go after a young coach or an assistant that has been around a winning organization like say the Spurs.. I also like Duwayne (sp?) Casey who I didn't think should have been fired by Minnesota anyways. The key is getting that superstar and now more than ever I think Pax has more of an emphasis of getting that guy because his job is probably on the line for next year now that he's fired "His thought to be guy".

[SoxFan1]

Deng is far from the hot seat. It's the 2 Ben's that are to be most accountable for. Them, and Kirk, but he's played better as of late.

You really need to stop thinking that this team is so in love with Tyrus. Skiles did not get fired because of Tyrus' lack of playing time, and he isn't going to magically start getting 30 minutes a game. You have to earn playing time, and he just hasn't done it this season. Seriously, the Tyrus love...tone it down man. 3/4 of your posts have something to do with Tyrus, relax man. He's not that great.

Besides, if a superstar is coming to play for the Bulls, Tyrus is as good as gone. He is still ovely hyped, even though he hasn't been getting the tick, so his value is still high, mainly because of his athleticism. Wallace/Gordon/Thomas is a nice package that could definitely get us a McGrady or a Gasol.

[MB33]

Lets see if pax has the ball to move some guys and get a post presence or an all star caliber player

[Chicago Bulls Fr...]

Deng is far from the hot seat. It's the 2 Ben's that are to be most accountable for. Them, and Kirk, but he's played better as of late.

You really need to stop thinking that this team is so in love with Tyrus. Skiles did not get fired because of Tyrus' lack of playing time, and he isn't going to magically start getting 30 minutes a game. You have to earn playing time, and he just hasn't done it this season. Seriously, the Tyrus love...tone it down man. 3/4 of your posts have something to do with Tyrus, relax man. He's not that great.

Besides, if a superstar is coming to play for the Bulls, Tyrus is as good as gone. He is still ovely hyped, even though he hasn't been getting the tick, so his value is still high, mainly because of his athleticism. Wallace/Gordon/Thomas is a nice package that could definitely get us a McGrady or a Gasol.

You don't think that topic came up during Paxson and Skiles heated argument? Paxson doesn't want to look bad for picking Tyrus so he wants him to play more than he has and Skiles probably had a major disagreement there. I highly doubt he goes anywhere now because Pax wants to see him grow now that Skiles is gone. But yes, I'm not saying I wouldn't trade Tyrus for T-Mac cuz I would, I'm just saying he would be a good fit right alongside him. If his jumpshot continues to improve and his free throw shooting is starting to pick up, I think he can give us a few more minutes at the small forward spot.

I think this all sort of started right when Skiles was told to apoligize to Tyrus about his "running the floor" comments. I give Skiles credit for turning this team of suckiness into a playoff contender but he wasn't going to get us much more than the playoffs. This team just quit on him, thats pretty obvious, Wallace even said it in KC's latest article.

[SoxFan1]

You don't think that topic came up during Paxson and Skiles heated argument? Paxson doesn't want to look bad for picking Tyrus so he wants him to play more than he has and Skiles probably had a major disagreement there. I highly doubt he goes anywhere now because Pax wants to see him grow now that Skiles is gone. But yes, I'm not saying I wouldn't trade Tyrus for T-Mac cuz I would, I'm just saying he would be a good fit right alongside him. If his jumpshot continues to improve and his free throw shooting is starting to pick up, I think he can give us a few more minutes at the small forward spot.

I think this all sort of started right when Skiles was told to apoligize to Tyrus about his "running the floor" comments. I give Skiles credit for turning this team of suckiness into a playoff contender but he wasn't going to get us much more than the playoffs. This team just quit on him, thats pretty obvious, Wallace even said it in KC's latest article.

I don't understand you some times. Are you a Tyrus Thomas fan, or a Bulls fan? Because taking minutes away from our best player in Luol Deng so we can play Tyrus is ludicrous. If we do get TMac, Tyrus is gone, period. Besides, we don't need Tyrus Thomas to be a jump shooter, we need him to be a post player. We didn't draft him so he could play like Rashard Lewis, we drafted him so he could play like Shawn Kemp.

Now please explain to me how Tyrus is a good fit next to TMac?

[Chicago Bulls Fr...]

I don't understand you some times. Are you a Tyrus Thomas fan, or a Bulls fan? Because taking minutes away from our best player in Luol Deng so we can play Tyrus is ludicrous. If we do get TMac, Tyrus is gone, period. Besides, we don't need Tyrus Thomas to be a jump shooter, we need him to be a post player. We didn't draft him so he could play like Rashard Lewis, we drafted him so he could play like Shawn Kemp.

Now please explain to me how Tyrus is a good fit next to TMac?

Because Tracy is a play maker and would create better shot oppurtunities for him. Duhon seems to be the only player that throws the oop to Tyrus effectively or gives him an easier shot at the basket. Adding a jump shot to his arsenal isn't a bad idea, I'd like to see him improve upon that but yes you are right, he needs to become a low post player ultimately.

[ZoomSlowik]

Pau Gasol just makes too much sense, especially since it seems like his value is dropping. I've heard Noc and Tyrus might do it in a few places, which would be so ridiculously good I can't believe Pax wouldn't have done it yet if it's true. Even if it ends up costing you one of your starting guards Gasol+Deng+Hinrich/Gordon is a pretty decent core, especially with what's starting to look like a late lottery pick and the potential to dump Wallace's absurd contract on someone (and if they don't deal him now that contract gets more and more valuable as it gets closer to expiring). That backcourt would look pretty nasty in the short-term if that was the case though.

Oh, and I REALLY don't want to see Jason Kidd come here. Come on now, Jason Kidd does not make this team a title threat or even a conference favorite all on his own, and he's going to be 35 by the time the playoffs roll around. He also doesn't solve the post problem, the jump-shooting problem, or the go-to-player problem.

[Jason82807]

I would like to keep Deng, but if we get someone great for him he's expendable. The Benjamins are a waste of the team's benjamins, we can find someone just as good for less. I liked Kirk until earlier this year, I forget which game, maybe Atlanta, when he stole the ball in the backcourt, had an easy dunk, and passed back to Noah who had good reason to not be expecting the ball.

[ZoomSlowik]

I would like to keep Deng, but if we get someone great for him he's expendable. The Benjamins are a waste of the team's benjamins, we can find someone just as good for less. I liked Kirk until earlier this year, I forget which game, maybe Atlanta, when he stole the ball in the backcourt, had an easy dunk, and passed back to Noah who had good reason to not be expecting the ball.

I personally can't see a realistic situation where I'd be happy if we dealt Deng. We'd basically have to get a similarly young player back that's better (or a big guy, which would have more value) for that to happen, and that doesn't seem likely to me. Even if someone like Kobe or T-Mac were coming back in the deal I'd be a little upset because we traded the one guy that's playing well right now and it would shorten our window for competition. Yeah, I know those guys would be an improvement, but we still wouldn't be a real threat because of our other problems, namely all of the guys that are playing below expectations still being on the roster. If you keep and extend Deng you've got considerably longer to figure things out, whereas with Kobe or T-Mac you've got to fix things FAST.

As for Kirk, it'd depend on the deal for me. Yeah, he's played like crap most of the year, but I still wouldn't GIVE him away. He's been a reasonably solid asset for the last several years and has started playing a bit better of late. He's not a real difference maker so I wouldn't exactly be heart-broken if he was the center-piece for a stud (don't see how that'd happen right now though), but he can still be a productive 3rd option on a good team (well, not the way he's playing right now though). The problem is that we'd be selling low right now, which probably wouldn't end up well, and it's starting to look like we need a second option that's better than Gordon.

[eddog2]

I don't understand you some times. Are you a Tyrus Thomas fan, or a Bulls fan? Because taking minutes away from our best player in Luol Deng so we can play Tyrus is ludicrous. If we do get TMac, Tyrus is gone, period. Besides, we don't need Tyrus Thomas to be a jump shooter, we need him to be a post player. We didn't draft him so he could play like Rashard Lewis, we drafted him so he could play like Shawn Kemp.

Now please explain to me how Tyrus is a good fit next to TMac?

Tyrus is a good fit next to T-mac b/c Tyrus can jump and T-mac can pass. T-Mac also demands the double team which would open up easy dunks for Tyrus. As for the jumper thing, it's nice to see Tyrus starting to hit jump shots. It's not the main thing I want him to do offensively but he does need to be able to hit that shot to keep defenses honest.

T-Mac could be a post player with the fadeaway shot. As playing him at SF I only like that idea if Nocioni is traded as part of the T-mac package. We could then play Tyrus as the backup SF and starting PF. It doesn't mean that Deng has to get less minutes. If Nocioni is traded, who do you want playing those minutes? Vicktor? Please!

I really think a deal could get done that doesn't involve Tyrus. Wallace, Gordon, & Thabo & a future pick would probably work.

As for the Bulls, I think they would be better off keeping Tyrus b/c he does have upside and I think with a new coach we could see a better Tyrus. I think his trade value will remain high for a couple more years so there is no rush to kick him out the door.

Noah/Gray
Tyrus/Nocioni
Deng/Nocioni/Tyrus
Tmac/Nichols????????
Hinrich/Duhon

Maybe we added D. Nichols b/c we plan on trading Thabo as part of the package. Just a thought. I personally was very happy when we added Nichols. Nichols has the size of a forward but I think he could easily play the 2 or 3.

[Chicago Bulls Fr...]

On the score this morning Pax was on and said he thought Tyrus' minutes were too erratic and he should be getting more PT based on his emergence of last season towards the end. He basically came out and said Thabo has been a disappointment and reminded the players the onus is on them now. He wants the new coach to have a better rotation and he says he doesn't expect Tyrus to come out and get 30 minutes a night right away but he wants us to use our length and athleticism better than we have been. Yeah, Tyrus is going nowhere...

[cars]

To me it's kind of simple. At this moment you have to eat crow. The downfall to this years team is Reinsdorfs forcing of Paxsons hand and telling him to sign Big Ben. The interesting point, however, is we don't beat the Heat last year without him. But I digress.

At this moment, I do everything in my power to trade Kirk and Ben Wallace. This offseason you must sign and trade Ben Gordon. And if you get a good offer, Noc is gone. You build this team around Luol. Is he a superstar? No. Will he be? No. But he's a solid shooter and good rebounder who can hit the 15 footer, which helps in spacing the floor.

Going forward, you start to play more minutes for Tyrus and Noah. Tyrus more than anyone else is going to need the floor time to develop his game: He got a late start into basketball and needs all the experience he can get.

The key is to realize that while the playoffs are attainable this year, it comes at a great expense: The future possibility for deeper playoff runs.

[ZoomSlowik]

Tyrus is a good fit next to T-mac b/c Tyrus can jump and T-mac can pass. T-Mac also demands the double team which would open up easy dunks for Tyrus. As for the jumper thing, it's nice to see Tyrus starting to hit jump shots. It's not the main thing I want him to do offensively but he does need to be able to hit that shot to keep defenses honest.

T-Mac could be a post player with the fadeaway shot. As playing him at SF I only like that idea if Nocioni is traded as part of the T-mac package. We could then play Tyrus as the backup SF and starting PF. It doesn't mean that Deng has to get less minutes. If Nocioni is traded, who do you want playing those minutes? Vicktor? Please!

I really think a deal could get done that doesn't involve Tyrus. Wallace, Gordon, & Thabo & a future pick would probably work.

As for the Bulls, I think they would be better off keeping Tyrus b/c he does have upside and I think with a new coach we could see a better Tyrus. I think his trade value will remain high for a couple more years so there is no rush to kick him out the door.

Noah/Gray
Tyrus/Nocioni
Deng/Nocioni/Tyrus
Tmac/Nichols????????
Hinrich/Duhon

Maybe we added D. Nichols b/c we plan on trading Thabo as part of the package. Just a thought. I personally was very happy when we added Nichols. Nichols has the size of a forward but I think he could easily play the 2 or 3.

I'd agree on the first part, anyone that draws double-teams is going to make life easier for Tyrus, since he's really only a major factor offensively when he can get the ball in space somewhere near the basket. You can say that about a lot of guys though, and if he could consistently hit a mid-range jumper he'd help a lot more with that (though in the grand scheme of things developing a post game would help A LOT more). I'd say T-Mac would help Deng and Kirk/Gordon if either is still here more, they should get a ton more open looks (though Tyrus would likely get a few when Tracy penetrates and the big leaves to help out).

T-Mac is obviously a highly-skilled player, but by no stretch of imagination can he be called a "post-player". Sure, he might occasionally post up here and there on a smaller guy, but his biggest strength is his jumper, and his driving ability is better than his post-up ability as well. He's not a guy that's going to consistently manufacture easy shots out of the post, as his shooting percentage shows. Some perimeter players can do it (Michael obviously comes to mind, though that was due more to his insanely good mid-range shooting), but T-Mac isn't really one of them.

I disagree that we could get a deal for a star done without Tyrus. He's one of the few pieces we have that isn't drastically declining in value, it's basically him and Deng, and MAYBE Noc or Noah (hard to say there, part of it is because they don't have as far to fall). Thabo isn't exactly going to be in demand with his current level of play, while even if Tyrus remains inconsistent teams will want him because he's a big guy with great athleticism and he's projectable. If we keep falling in the standings that package you suggested would gain value because of our pick increasing in value, but then again if we added a T-Mac that would reverse a bit. Yes, if you're going to drastically alter the roster Tyrus is a guy you'd generally want to keep around because of his upside, but unless a team gets pretty desperate it's going to be hard to get an All-Star caliber player without Deng or Tyrus being part of the deal.

[chilord]

Going forward? I'd give the team as is about 10 games with the status quo intact. That should give you some regard as to how low my regard for Skiles' abilities has fallen. I think substitution improvements alone (along with the end of the infamous 'Dog House') will lift this team to some semblance of the team we thought we had.

If you are gonna deal someone though, start with Wallace, one of Hinrich/Gordon, and Noc. A real two guard would be nice, and the one of Hinrich/Gordon you don't trade can run the point just fine. I actually think a PF/C combo of Smith/Thomas/Noah/Gray is just fine for now, so unless you're bringing Gasol there's no need to be desperate for a low post scorer... still be nice to get one, but if you can bring a T-Mac here he and Deng are enough of a scoring duo to overcome that little difficulty.

[motownbull71]

The plan should be to improve the roster by either getting a low-post threat or a slasher/scorer who can create his own shot, draw double-teams and get to the free throw line. Also, I think either Hinrich or Gordon should go the bench in favor of a bigger guard who can defend. Paxson needs to seriously evaluate this team and get some guys who can take this team to the next level.