Gasol on the block Options

[ZoomSlowik]

apparently the bulls offered gordon and PJ for Gasol.
Also, with a likely run on big men at the top of the draft, it's likely we could use our pick next year to get one of the best 2 guards in draft. Certainly someone good enough to back up thabo.

The problem with that is that this is a rather lackluster group of guards. The vast majority of the good players on the draft board are forwards or centers. A quick look at perimeter players that we could conceivably take with a top-15 pick:

Kevin Durant- Might be a fit. Potential superstar, but best position is SF. We'd have to get EXTREMELY lucky in the lottery to have a shotat him.

Julian Wright- Bad fit, true small forward with a questionable jumper.

Chase Budinger- Awesome fit if he's there. Big wing player with great athleticism and a solid perimeter shot. Possible top-5 pick, would be surprised if he's there past 8. Also, 2 of the sites seem to think he'll stay at Arizona another year.

Corey Brewer- Possible fit. Not entirely sure if he can play SG in the NBA, though I like him as a prospect. Stock is supposedly slipping.

Marcus Williams- Possible fit. Good athlete and a solid shooter, but streaky, and a little lax in the ball-handling department. Probably a better fit at SF.

Thaddeus Young- Bad fit. Kind of a tweener at SF/PF. Solid athlete with decent perimeter shot, but we don't want him playing 2-guard.

Dominic James- Bad fit. Undersized PG with questionable outside shot.

Daquan Cook- Decent fit. Athletic 2-guard with range, but a bit of a project.



So basically there are two true SG's and a bunch of small forwards that we'd be trying to jam into the 2-guard spot.

[nocka00]

Kevhead,

I was wondering which future draft pick they were shipping. I feel like if they give up the knicks pick they are giving up too much. If it is the 2008 first rounder i say pull the trigger in a heart beat. Also, I am not sure whether we should trade gordon instead of deng. Deng is not a second half player, horrible in the fourth quarter in my opinion. It seems like he has rocks for hands when trying to get a rebound, while gordon is the one clutch player we have. Also, with the kickout ability of gasol, how many good open looks could hinrich and gordon get when swinging the ball around after the ball leaves down low from gasol. I personally think the idea is scary. I just feel like in this new age of NBA, the small forward position isnt that tough to find nowadays. Hell with the knicks pick we could end up with corey brewer from florida, and he's a stud already.

Also, I know as Bulls' fans we want to win right now, but I wonder why rush so much. The only thing i can think of is having wallace for the next 3 years. Our guys are so young, hell we should be happy just by what they have done the last 2 years. I dont like to compare things to the past, but when michael and the crew were winning 35-45 games in the 80's we didnt panic, we let them develop. I say we let these guys develop and grow. I see Thabo looking like a scottie pippen clone, i dont know if thats overboard, but he is so silky smooth. Anyways, go chi-town, i'll do my job in columbus, ohio and continue telling cavs fans they will never win the big one. The East is open, lets take it.

[madisonsmadhouse]

The problem with that is that this is a rather lackluster group of guards. The vast majority of the good players on the draft board are forwards or centers. A quick look at perimeter players that we could conceivably take with a top-15 pick:

Kevin Durant- Might be a fit. Potential superstar, but best position is SF. We'd have to get EXTREMELY lucky in the lottery to have a shotat him.

Julian Wright- Bad fit, true small forward with a questionable jumper.

Chase Budinger- Awesome fit if he's there. Big wing player with great athleticism and a solid perimeter shot. Possible top-5 pick, would be surprised if he's there past 8. Also, 2 of the sites seem to think he'll stay at Arizona another year.

Corey Brewer- Possible fit. Not entirely sure if he can play SG in the NBA, though I like him as a prospect. Stock is supposedly slipping.

Marcus Williams- Possible fit. Good athlete and a solid shooter, but streaky, and a little lax in the ball-handling department. Probably a better fit at SF.

Thaddeus Young- Bad fit. Kind of a tweener at SF/PF. Solid athlete with decent perimeter shot, but we don't want him playing 2-guard.

Dominic James- Bad fit. Undersized PG with questionable outside shot.

Daquan Cook- Decent fit. Athletic 2-guard with range, but a bit of a project.
So basically there are two true SG's and a bunch of small forwards that we'd be trying to jam into the 2-guard spot.

It is infinately easier to deal big men for small guys than the other way around. If we were going to be short suited going into an off-season, I would much rather be needing to add backcourt guys versus the other way around.

Kevhead,

I was wondering which future draft pick they were shipping. I feel like if they give up the knicks pick they are giving up too much. If it is the 2008 first rounder i say pull the trigger in a heart beat. Also, I am not sure whether we should trade gordon instead of deng. Deng is not a second half player, horrible in the fourth quarter in my opinion. It seems like he has rocks for hands when trying to get a rebound, while gordon is the one clutch player we have. Also, with the kickout ability of gasol, how many good open looks could hinrich and gordon get when swinging the ball around after the ball leaves down low from gasol. I personally think the idea is scary. I just feel like in this new age of NBA, the small forward position isnt that tough to find nowadays. Hell with the knicks pick we could end up with corey brewer from florida, and he's a stud already.

Also, I know as Bulls' fans we want to win right now, but I wonder why rush so much. The only thing i can think of is having wallace for the next 3 years. Our guys are so young, hell we should be happy just by what they have done the last 2 years. I dont like to compare things to the past, but when michael and the crew were winning 35-45 games in the 80's we didnt panic, we let them develop. I say we let these guys develop and grow. I see Thabo looking like a scottie pippen clone, i dont know if thats overboard, but he is so silky smooth. Anyways, go chi-town, i'll do my job in columbus, ohio and continue telling cavs fans they will never win the big one. The East is open, lets take it.

Welcome to talkbulls.com

[ZoomSlowik]

It is infinately easier to deal big men for small guys than the other way around. If we were going to be short suited going into an off-season, I would much rather be needing to add backcourt guys versus the other way around.

That's true, I'm just saying our perimeter options in the draft will be somewhat limited. However, we could probably get fairly solid value for our pick, especially if we get a little lucky in the lottery.

[KevHead0881]

Kevhead,

I was wondering which future draft pick they were shipping. I feel like if they give up the knicks pick they are giving up too much. If it is the 2008 first rounder i say pull the trigger in a heart beat. Also, I am not sure whether we should trade gordon instead of deng. Deng is not a second half player, horrible in the fourth quarter in my opinion. It seems like he has rocks for hands when trying to get a rebound, while gordon is the one clutch player we have. Also, with the kickout ability of gasol, how many good open looks could hinrich and gordon get when swinging the ball around after the ball leaves down low from gasol. I personally think the idea is scary. I just feel like in this new age of NBA, the small forward position isnt that tough to find nowadays. Hell with the knicks pick we could end up with corey brewer from florida, and he's a stud already.

Also, I know as Bulls' fans we want to win right now, but I wonder why rush so much. The only thing i can think of is having wallace for the next 3 years. Our guys are so young, hell we should be happy just by what they have done the last 2 years. I dont like to compare things to the past, but when michael and the crew were winning 35-45 games in the 80's we didnt panic, we let them develop. I say we let these guys develop and grow. I see Thabo looking like a scottie pippen clone, i dont know if thats overboard, but he is so silky smooth. Anyways, go chi-town, i'll do my job in columbus, ohio and continue telling cavs fans they will never win the big one. The East is open, lets take it.

I was receiving this info from my father, and he didn't get into a whole lot of specifics, but he seemed to believe that the pick involved would be the one from the Knicks. But don't quote me on that.

[sport1016]

i dont think we can trade the knicks pick

it'd have to be 08 and i would throw in '09 pick to seal the deal, as they dont project to be more than late first rounders

Pau to chicago, it's all i can think about....we would be contenders for the next 5 years

let's not forget that we have griffin under contract for a bit, and he's played well when he's played...certainly enough to back up thabo kirk and du

[madisonsmadhouse]

i dont think we can trade the knicks pick

it'd have to be 08 and i would throw in '09 pick to seal the deal, as they dont project to be more than late first rounders

Pau to chicago, it's all i can think about....we would be contenders for the next 5 years

let's not forget that we have griffin under contract for a bit, and he's played well when he's played...certainly enough to back up thabo kirk and du

Good call on Grif. I tend to stick him more with the 3's, but he played the 2 for Dallas in the playoffs, so we know he can do it.

[KevHead0881]

i dont think we can trade the knicks pick

it'd have to be 08 and i would throw in '09 pick to seal the deal, as they dont project to be more than late first rounders

Pau to chicago, it's all i can think about....we would be contenders for the next 5 years

let's not forget that we have griffin under contract for a bit, and he's played well when he's played...certainly enough to back up thabo kirk and du

That's what I thought. Maybe I heard wrong.

[The Dude Abides]

I am completely against trading Gordon. He is the only clutch player we have. Hemight have off nights, but he has really stepped it up lately. We all know he can shoot lights out, but he has been taking the ball to the hoop and getting to the foul line this year. If he goes, we dont have a go to guy in the 4th.

Plus, if we are giving up the knicks pick as well???? I cant believe Pax would get fleeced like this.

I think they should trade
Hinrich
Brown
2008 1st rd/maybe 2009 1st round too if needed....

[ZoomSlowik]

I am completely against trading Gordon. He is the only clutch player we have. Hemight have off nights, but he has really stepped it up lately. We all know he can shoot lights out, but he has been taking the ball to the hoop and getting to the foul line this year. If he goes, we dont have a go to guy in the 4th.

Plus, if we are giving up the knicks pick as well???? I cant believe Pax would get fleeced like this.

I think they should trade
Hinrich
Brown
2008 1st rd/maybe 2009 1st round too if needed....

I don't really see how you can say dealing an-undersized 2-guard, an expiring contract, and what appears to be a late-lottery pick for a 26-year old All-star caliber center is getting fleeced.

You're not going to get a player like that without giving up something of value. I wouldn't really have a problem with it. Losing any of Deng, Gordon, or Hinrich obviously hurts, but Gordon is probably the easiest to find a reasonable replacement for in the future, and in the short term the added punch of Gasol in the post easily makes up for it IMO. Hinrich is the popular whipping boy right now, but I REALLY don't want to see Duhon getting starter-minutes, and then we don't have a true backup PG. A Hinrich-Duhon-Sefolosha backcourt would probably fair better, it'd give you much better ball-handling and still have reasonable scoring as opposed to a Duhon-Gordon-Sefolosha backcourt. Plus this coming PG class in the draft is atrocious unless Steele can ever get healthy, and real PG's are hard to come by and expensive in FA.

[dasox24]

Yeah, there's NO WAY I'd give up Gordon. He's just too good for how young he still is. In 2 years, I really think he'll be a Gilbert Arenas type. Hell, he's averaging over 20 pts. in only 31 minutes/game. That's awesome. Plus, the biggest and most important reason (which others have brought up) for keeping him is that he's awesome in the 4th and is our go-to guy that we can give the ball with 1-2 seconds left for a game-winning shot. If Pax really wants this done, give up Deng. I know he's gonna be really good, probably an All-Star, but I think Gordon is too important. Plus, Noc at SF really offsets the loss of Deng.

[The Dude Abides]

I don't really see how you can say dealing an-undersized 2-guard, an expiring contract, and what appears to be a late-lottery pick for a 26-year old All-star caliber center is getting fleeced.

You're not going to get a player like that without giving up something of value. I wouldn't really have a problem with it. Losing any of Deng, Gordon, or Hinrich obviously hurts, but Gordon is probably the easiest to find a reasonable replacement for in the future, and in the short term the added punch of Gasol in the post easily makes up for it IMO. Hinrich is the popular whipping boy right now, but I REALLY don't want to see Duhon getting starter-minutes, and then we don't have a true backup PG. A Hinrich-Duhon-Sefolosha backcourt would probably fair better, it'd give you much better ball-handling and still have reasonable scoring as opposed to a Duhon-Gordon-Sefolosha backcourt.

you are speculating that the knicks pick would be a late lottery pick..it could be a top 3. I'm sure if it is this years pick, we would have a condition attached to it. This draft is full of big men and I would hate to give up our only clutch player and a possible top 3 lottery pick. I know this trade is fair and looks good on paper, but I dont think Ben is as easy to replace as you say he is. I think he will continue to improve.
To me, Hinrich would be easier to replace bc we wouldnt need his scoring with Gasol. Hinrich hasnt distributed the ball well this year, he turns it over way too often, he dribbles way too much then will take bad shots, etc. He needs to become more of a passing pg and scoring 2nd. When he dribbles around for 10-15 seconds its not helping the team.

Either way, I trust Pax and will support the trade. I know getting gasol for gordon would be good for the bulls, I would just be concerned about loosing a clutch guy with potential. Also, gordon would only get better having Gasol as a low post threat.

[ZoomSlowik]

you are speculating that the knicks pick would be a late lottery pick..it could be a top 3. I'm sure if it is this years pick, we would have a condition attached to it. This draft is full of big men and I would hate to give up our only clutch player and a possible top 3 lottery pick. I know this trade is fair and looks good on paper, but I dont think Ben is as easy to replace as you say he is. I think he will continue to improve.
To me, Hinrich would be easier to replace bc we wouldnt need his scoring with Gasol. Hinrich hasnt distributed the ball well this year, he turns it over way too often, he dribbles way too much then will take bad shots, etc. He needs to become more of a passing pg and scoring 2nd. When he dribbles around for 10-15 seconds its not helping the team.

Either way, I trust Pax and will support the trade. I know getting gasol for gordon would be good for the bulls, I would just be concerned about loosing a clutch guy with potential. Also, gordon would only get better having Gasol as a low post threat.

Right now the Knicks are #11 in terms of worst record, and aren't likely to catch a lot of the teams below them thanks to the craptacular Atlantic division. They'd have to get EXTREMELY lucky in the lottery for it to be in the top 3.

I'm confused, we need Gordon's scoring, but we don't need Kirk's scoring? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Given that Hinrich is taking about 3 1/2 fewer shots per game than Gordon their production is fairly similar. Plus Kirk offers a lot more than scoring. He's a decent ball-distributor and actually plays defense, and turns it over less than Gordon does even though he has the ball more often (2.3 per game to 3.1). Plus I'd actually expect Gordon's scoring numbers to drop as he'd no longer be the number one option (though his percentages would likely improve, as would Kirk's probably). Plus Gordons clutchness is overrated to me, he hasn't really been stellar in late situations since that stretch in his rookie year, and he's not exactly a top-flight closer in tight games. If he were, I doubt we would have blown so many big leads in that recent losing stretch.

One can find a SG that has decent to good offensive capabilities, it's hard to find a legit PG that can score and distribute the ball without being a detriment to the team like Marbury or Davis. Kirk has generally shown that he can be that guy. He's nowhere near the Nash-Kidd-Paul level, and Williams and Billups have been better as well, but he's still better than an awful lot of PG's out there. I'd just hate to have to depend on Duhon to basically be our ONLY PG. If he's going to play 35+ minutes per game, we're in trouble, cause with him and Wallace on the floor we're virtually playing 3-on-5 on the offensive end.

I could live with any of our key players going if it nets us Gasol as long as it is only one of them. Of the big four, I'd rank them in the following order from the guy I most want to keep to least: Deng, Hinrich, Gordon, Noc.

From a philosphical standpoint Deng might make the most sense though for a few reasons: 1) We already have pretty good depth at the position with Nocioni and Thomas behind him, and there likely wouldn't be as many minutes to go around with Gasol and Wallace being on the floor a lot. 2) With Gasol in the post, we'd probably want a number of 3 point shooters. A Hinrich-Gordon-Noc perimeter trio would be a deadly combo. 3) If it's Deng instead of Gordon, we could probably get away with keeping the Knick's pick and making it a future first rounder.

I think Deng has the most potential though. He's already a solid all-around player at the young age of 21, and if he ever adds the 3-pointer to his repetoire he could become a true beast. Conversely, I don't see Hinrich improving by leaps and bounds, and Gordon will always be limited by his height and probably can't hack it at the point. He'll likely always be a bit one dimensional because of that.

[sport1016]

this espn article just came out with possible destinations for gasol

we're favored, and it isnt even close. It makes sense that they'd want two of our core players but settle for a draft pick and one of them (along with PJ) but i thought we couldnt trade that pick......confused

here's the article

Pau Gasol wants out of Memphis, and Grizzlies president Jerry West is probably going to trade him to keep everyone happy.

But there's no guarantee a deal will happen before the Feb. 22 trade deadline, because this is not the same type of situation that Allen Iverson went through leaving Philadelphia, or Ron Artest did in leaving Indiana. West can keep Gasol and try trading him again over the summer, and if Pau doesn't like it, too bad.

"There's no fire sale here," West insists.

But since a Gasol trade seems inevitable -- eventually -- let's look at some of the possibilities.


CHICAGO BULLS

The Bulls are currently puttering along at five games over .500 and sitting fifth in the weak Eastern Conference, needing a capable low-post scorer like humans need oxygen.

What's more, they're one of very few teams that can offer the three items that are believed to be exactly what West wants: a likely lottery pick; disposable good, young players; and financial relief.

Because Gasol makes $12.364 million this season (plus four more years at $13.7, $15.1, $16.4 and $17.8), the Bulls (or any other team over the salary cap) would have to send Memphis a minimum of nearly $10 million in salaries to comply with the 125 percent rule.

Bulls VP John Paxson could get most of the way to the threshold by starting the trade with P.J. Brown, whose $8 million salary comes off the books after this season. After that, it's merely a matter of finding a player or combination of players making between $1.98 million and $7.55 million.

West is believed to have varying degrees of interest in four of the Bulls' best young established players -- Luol Deng, Kirk Hinrich, Andres Nocioni and Ben Gordon -- and it's safe to assume West would probably want two of them. That would be especially true if he couldn't get Paxson to part with the other valuable commodity he holds -- the Knicks' first-round pick in the Greg Oden-Kevin Durant draft.

(Paxson acquired the right to swap 2007 first-round picks with New York in the Eddy Curry trade, along with two other not-to-be-overlooked pieces that could be the throw-ins to get a Gasol deal done: New York's second-round picks in 2007 and 2009.)

Paxson, however, has no interest in lumping together too many of his assets to overpay for Gasol, especially with the long-term cap planning complications it would cause. After all, Paxson has to look ahead to the summer, when he's due to negotiate extensions with Gordon and Deng while also trying to satisfy Nocioni, a restricted free agent.

While the Bulls are the natural front-runners for Gasol, there are 28 other teams out there who might be interested in trading for a young, 7-foot All-Star as well.

If one of them lumped enough assets together to meet West's price, it could give West the leverage to force Paxson's hand -- or to make him decide that the price is just too high.

There are dozens of combinations that could work for Memphis and Chicago, and there is no telling what the final middle ground will be. But Brown, Gordon and the Knicks' pick for Gasol might be a trade both teams can live with.

So, all in all, what are the chances the Bulls get a deal done, on a scale from 1 (least likely) to 5 (most likely)?

Trade Machine: Gasol for Brown, Gordon and Knicks' pick

Probability factor: 4


NEW JERSEY NETS

Nets president Rod Thorn has been rattling the trees trying to establish what kind of value there is out there for Jason Kidd and Vince Carter. That's about all he can do now that his two young starters (and trade assets) Richard Jefferson and Nenad Krstic are recovering from ankle and knee surgery, respectively.

Carter might interest the Grizzlies since he's expected to opt out of his contract this summer, which would take an additional $16.3 million off Memphis' payroll this summer (Eddie Jones' $15.7 million salary also comes off the cap).

An offer of Carter, Marcus Williams and the Nets' No. 1 pick for Gasol and Chucky Atkins might be alluring to both teams.

Trade Machine: Gasol and Atkins for Carter, Williams and a pick

Probability factor: 2


LOS ANGELES LAKERS

You seldom see a team part with two bigs in a trade, but you could imagine Kwame Brown and Andrew Bynum being expendable in exchange for Gasol.

It wasn't so long ago, remember, when we saw what Phil Jackson could do when he had a dominant post player to pair with Kobe Bryant.

So, Brown, Bynum, Jordan Farmar, Aaron McKie and a No. 1 for Gasol and Atkins, anybody?

Trade Machine: Gasol and Atkins for Brown, Bynum, Farmar and McKie

Probability factor: 2


BOSTON CELTICS

The Grizzlies already know the Celtics are interested, so now it's a question of whether West wants what Celtics exec Danny Ainge can offer.

You can assume West would begin his wish list with Al Jefferson and Delonte West, but their salaries don't add up to anything close to the $10 million requisite, so the Celtics would have to add in Theo Ratliff, too, and he is still due to make $11.67 million in '07-'08.

In other words, Memphis could probably do better elsewhere.

Trade Machine: Gasol for Jefferson, West and Ratliff

Probability factor: 2


ORLANDO MAGIC

The Magic might lose Darko Milicic as a free agent next summer. For that reason, it would make sense for Orlando to explore the idea of Milicic, Travis Diener (a shooter to replace Mike Miller after he's traded, too) and Carlos Arroyo (a new point guard, which West craves) for Gasol.

The Magic could not give Memphis an '07 first-round pick, however, since they traded it to Detroit in the Darko deal. But Orlando is looking to move the rights to '05 first-round pick Fran Vazquez.

Trade Machine: Gasol for Milicic, Diener and Arroyo

Probability factor: 2


INDIANA PACERS

Just for argument's sake, let's assume the exile of Al Harrington and Stephen Jackson to Golden State was just the first move in a massive breakup, and that Jermaine O'Neal and Jamaal Tinsley will be the next to go.

Well, if you packaged them for Gasol, Mike Miller and Chucky Atkins, you'd be one of the very few teams that could give Jerry West both an All-Star and a starting point guard.

Trade Machine: Gasol, Miller and Atkins for O'Neal and Tinsley

Probability factor: 1


TORONTO RAPTORS

The Raptors would be the toast of Barcelona and Milan if they could get Gasol together on the same team with Jose Calderon, Jorge Garbajosa and Andrea Bargnani, but they'd have to surrender Chris Bosh to get Gasol, and they're not surrendering Chris Bosh.

Trade Machine: One possible scenario

Probability factor: 1


CHARLOTTE BOBCATS

West is a big fan of Emeka Okafor, but the cheapskate Bobcats would never swap him for a player making nearly three times as much money.

The Bobcats also aren't likely to part with their two No. 1 picks -- their own and Toronto's (protected 1-15 in '07, 1-14 in '08 and unprotected in '09).

They also ask for $3 million in cash in nearly every trade discussion they have, and Michael Heisley isn't paying anyone if he gives them Gasol.

Trade Machine: Gasol for Okafor

Probability factor: 1


PHOENIX SUNS

Yes, we know it would be crazy to mess with the Suns now that their winning streak is up to 14 games following their beat-down of the Wizards in Washington on Tuesday night.

But we also know that Suns owner Robert Sarver has given serious thought in the past to trading Shawn Marion, and he has to at least consider whether Gasol could be the final piece to get Phoenix its first title, which would make Sarver a hero in Phoenix, which is what he ultimately wants.

The Suns also have three first-round picks (their own, Cleveland's and Atlanta's -- though it's top-3 protected) to entice Memphis.

Would Jerry West do a deal of Marion, Marcus Banks and the first-round pick of the Cavs or the Suns for Gasol and Chucky Atkins?

A better question: Would the Suns?

Trade Machine: Gasol and Atkins for Marion, Banks and pick

Probability factor: 1

[CryptViLL]

Damn. its getting intresting.