Darko, Was money on Nocioni well spent? Options

[eddog2]

Okay so Milicic reportedly signed with Memphis for 3 years $21 million. I pose the question of whether or not the Bulls paying Nocioni roughly the same (actually slightly more) for his $5 year $38 million. That averages to $7.6 million a season whereas Darko reportedly will be making $7. No to mention Nocioni isn't a starter and is a SF. The only positions in this league were a bench guy could demand starters money are PF/C and PG. Other than that SF's are a dime a dozen.

I don't agree with the practice but it is what it is.

I question whether or not we would have been better off making a strong push to Milicic instead of resigning Nocioni. It just would seem that for the same money I'd much rather have Darko at the 4/5 and play Tyrus at 3/4 than have Nocioni creating a log jam at 3/4 when we already have Deng & Tyrus. I think Darko could have solidified our low post needs for at least the next 3 years and possibly longer if he were willing to sign a 5 year deal.

It is pretty frustrating that instead, Memphis forced us to overpay for Nocioni while also getting the player that I really wanted in free agency.

Darko/Gasol
Gasol/Warrick/Swift
Gay/Miller
Miller/Kinsey
Conley/Stoudamire/Lowry

That is going to be a pretty good lineup. Good outside shooting with Gay/Miller. Good PG play. Good low post game with Darko/Gasol. Athleticism with Gay/Warrick/Swift. They are going to be very good in a couple of season if not pushing for the playoffs this year.

[SoxFan1]

Memphis really kicked our ass this offseason. The only thing that would make it much worse would be for us to trade Deng, Tyrus, and Gordon for Gasol.

[eddog2]

Memphis really kicked our ass this offseason. The only thing that would make it much worse would be for us to trade Deng, Tyrus, and Gordon for Gasol.

That's probably what they are praying for after outplaying Paxson so far this offseason.

They would probably be better in the long run if they gave up Gasol for Tyrus, Noah, & Gordon. However, although many people here (including yourself) would probably love that deal, I don't think it would make us a for sure title team.

However, it would lead to Memphis becoming one of the elite teams in the West in the next few years.

Darko/Noah
Noah/Tyrus
Gay/Tyrus
Miller/Gordon (?)
Conley/Lowry

That's one super young team with great outside shooting, great defensive players, and explosive athletes that can run on both ends of the court.

[SoxFan1]

Let's say we did deal Tyrus/Noah/Gordon for Gasol. Meaning, Gasol and Thabo immediately replace PJ and Gordon.

Pau + Thabo = 24.1 ppg, 11.7 rpg combined (07)
PJ + Gordon = 26.5 ppg, 8.5 rpg combined (07)

When you take into account the additional numbers Thabo will put it with more playing time and consisten starts, it would undoubtedly be more points and far more rebounds, not to mention much better D at the SG pos, and more blocks from our bigs.

[dasox24]

They would probably be better in the long run if they gave up Gasol for Tyrus, Noah, & Gordon.

Oddly enough, I am beginning to think that I wouldn't make that trade, but the Grizz would. A few weeks ago, I would have been all for that trade, but I think I'd like to give it another year (or at least until the trade deadline) to decide whether we really need to give up all that for a low-post scorer.

Anyway, you're right that the Grizzlies' lineup is shaping up pretty well right now with the addition of Conley, Darko, and a fully healthy Pau next year. People in Memphis are being cautiously optimistic right now about Darko (as they should), but I really do think he's gonna pay off big time for them.

[ZoomSlowik]

The way Tyrus has been developing, I don't think you can give them Gordon and Tyrus anymore. Tyrus looks a lot more likely to be pretty good than he did a year ago, and to make the money work you'd still have to give up Noc as well.

Memphis probably should have jumped on it when we offered basically that same package you guys mentioned. Instead they blew it demanding Deng and more, so they probably missed their chance.

As for Noc, they would have had to out-right him first to clear enough money, I don't think they'd have done that unless they KNEW they'd get Darko. They probably thought they'd have a shot at him with the MLE (not too bright to be honest) and didn't want to GIVE away Noc, and Memphis came to them with that first. Realistically, that's probably why they threw that kind of money at Darko, since they went after Nocioni first and fell short (either that or their management is FAR more crafty than I think, basically eliminating a major competitor).

[madisonsmadhouse]

I'd guess the Bulls still win around 20 more games than Memphis does this year.

You also have to take into account the fact that the Bulls could sign Nocioni without giving up anything else, and because of salary cap restrictions, they would have had to been able to negotitate with Milicic while working out a palatable sign and trade deal with Orlando. It isn't nearly as simple as the fact that the contract money is close to the samething. That is a gross misgeneralization of the facts here.

[ZoomSlowik]

I'd guess the Bulls still win around 20 more games than Memphis does this year.

You also have to take into account the fact that the Bulls could sign Nocioni without giving up anything else, and because of salary cap restrictions, they would have had to been able to negotitate with Milicic while working out a palatable sign and trade deal with Orlando. It isn't nearly as simple as the fact that the contract money is close to the samething. That is a gross misgeneralization of the facts here.

It would have been pretty close if they would have out-righted him. Their cap figure was $47 mil without counting Noc's contract or the draft picks. Add Darko's $7 mil and you're at $53 mil, still around $2 mil under the new cap total, which I believe is enough to cover Noah...

[madisonsmadhouse]

It would have been pretty close if they would have out-righted him. Their cap figure was $47 mil without counting Noc's contract or the draft picks. Add Darko's $7 mil and you're at $53 mil, still around $2 mil under the new cap total, which I believe is enough to cover Noah...

And it also leaves roster spots open.

[eddog2]

And it also leaves roster spots open.

What's the difference b/t letting Nocioni walk and signing Darko instead of signing Nocioni?

That's still adds up to 1 player. We didn't have to keep Nocioni. I'm sure San Antonio would also have taken Nocioni in a sign and trade for the draft rights to Scola. Not that I'd for sure take Scola over Nocioni but he'd seem to fit our needs better.

[Bullseye]

Darko > Noc & Smith...

[Chisoxfn]

Okay so Milicic reportedly signed with Memphis for 3 years $21 million. I pose the question of whether or not the Bulls paying Nocioni roughly the same (actually slightly more) for his $5 year $38 million. That averages to $7.6 million a season whereas Darko reportedly will be making $7. No to mention Nocioni isn't a starter and is a SF. The only positions in this league were a bench guy could demand starters money are PF/C and PG. Other than that SF's are a dime a dozen.

I don't agree with the practice but it is what it is.

I question whether or not we would have been better off making a strong push to Milicic instead of resigning Nocioni. It just would seem that for the same money I'd much rather have Darko at the 4/5 and play Tyrus at 3/4 than have Nocioni creating a log jam at 3/4 when we already have Deng & Tyrus. I think Darko could have solidified our low post needs for at least the next 3 years and possibly longer if he were willing to sign a 5 year deal.

It is pretty frustrating that instead, Memphis forced us to overpay for Nocioni while also getting the player that I really wanted in free agency.

Darko/Gasol
Gasol/Warrick/Swift
Gay/Miller
Miller/Kinsey
Conley/Stoudamire/Lowry

That is going to be a pretty good lineup. Good outside shooting with Gay/Miller. Good PG play. Good low post game with Darko/Gasol. Athleticism with Gay/Warrick/Swift. They are going to be very good in a couple of season if not pushing for the playoffs this year.

I want to know how the Bulls were going to offer Darko 7 million. They couldn't. Even if Noc wasn't here they wouldn't have had the ability to do that. I would have loved to get Darko but the reality is he was gonna get more than the MLE and that meant the Bulls weren't gonna be able to land him.

[Balta1701-B]

I want to know how the Bulls were going to offer Darko 7 million. They couldn't. Even if Noc wasn't here they wouldn't have had the ability to do that. I would have loved to get Darko but the reality is he was gonna get more than the MLE and that meant the Bulls weren't gonna be able to land him.

Ok, so there seems to be 2 sides here...would the Bulls have been able to offer more than the MLE if they did not resign Nocioni or not? Otherwise this whole discussion is moot.

[Chisoxfn]

Ok, so there seems to be 2 sides here...would the Bulls have been able to offer more than the MLE if they did not resign Nocioni or not? Otherwise this whole discussion is moot.

I didn't think you could offer the MLE or use the MLE along with caproom. I thought the whole point of the exception was for teams right up against the cap.

[sport1016]

u cant add cap room to the mle

bc then you'd have players with partial salaries counting agst the cap. Then every team would use its MLE on a big deal, like Rashard Lewis could have 5 million less of his salary agst the cap so the magic couldve had a shot to keep darko.

Cant do it