Depth roaster, wow, we are deep Options

[bulls91]

i was just looking at the bulls roster i think that we are deep at all positions with very good talent at every position at least 2 deep. look

PG Hinrich, Duhon, Sefolosha
SG Gordon, Sefolosha, Griffin
SF Deng, Nocioni, Khyrapa, Griffin
PF Brown, Nocioni, Thomas, Allen
C Wallace, Sweetney, Brown

all has really good talent that will give thomas time to develope and gain weight with not much pressure on him but will get some minutes.

[HoofHearted]

Hard to predict the minute sharing with all the depth we have. That almost sounds like a good thing to me, play your main guys 35 in the tough ones, the other nights we can cruise with a lockdown D team for an entire half. I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I see Allen picking up the majority of Ben's bench minutes, he could see just under 10 or so a night there. Like I said in the "starting PF" thread, we are going to have a lot of different options down low, give teams a bunch of different looks, and dictate the way they match-up against us.

[SoxFan1]

This team reminds me of the Kings of a few years ago. Very deep and a great mix of veterans and youngsters.

You've got your defensive stopper in Wallace (Christie), your court captain in Hinrich (Bibby), your veteran leaders in Brown and Griffin (Divac and Jackson), your sharpshooter in Gordon (Stojakovic), your versatile back-up big man in Sweetney (Miller), your wiley 6th man in Nocioni (Turkoglu), but the only thing missing is your go-to, low post scorer. Who is going to be out Chris Webber?

[Iguana]

This team reminds me of the Kings of a few years ago. Very deep and a great mix of veterans and youngsters.

You've got your defensive stopper in Wallace (Christie), your court captain in Hinrich (Bibby), your veteran leaders in Brown and Griffin (Divac and Jackson), your sharpshooter in Gordon (Stojakovic), your versatile back-up big man in Sweetney (Miller), your wiley 6th man in Nocioni (Turkoglu), but the only thing missing is your go-to, low post scorer. Who is going to be out Chris Webber?

Sounds like a job for Luke Schenscher !! LOL

(hey mods, when I click on the smilies, it comes up as File Not Found. Odd...)

[eddog2]

Hard to predict the minute sharing with all the depth we have. That almost sounds like a good thing to me, play your main guys 35 in the tough ones, the other nights we can cruise with a lockdown D team for an entire half. I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I see Allen picking up the majority of Ben's bench minutes, he could see just under 10 or so a night there. Like I said in the "starting PF" thread, we are going to have a lot of different options down low, give teams a bunch of different looks, and dictate the way they match-up against us.

Problem was, even with Webber that team came up short. We have Nocioni and Deng, whichever is on the bench I think that our bench is still a lot stronger then the Kings.

2001-2002 when they went to the conference finals this was their bench.

31 Scot Pollard F - C 211 120 27 1975 5 19-97
51 Lawrence Funderburke PF 206 104 32 1970 5 51-94
5 Hidayet Turkoglu SF 203 100 23 1979 2 16-00
3 Gerald Wallace SF 201 97 20 1982 1 25-01
24 Bobby Jackson PG 185 84 29 1973 5 23-97
52 Chucky Brown SF 203 100 34 1968 13 43-89
8 Mateen Cleaves PG 188 93 25 1977 2 14-00
25 Brent Price PG 185 84 34 1968 9 32-92

Although Wallace is a great player now he didn't much playing time for the Kings back then. Turkoglu and Jackson are good bench players and some might even argue that Jackson was even good enough to be a starter on most teams.

But the same can be said of Nocioni/Deng. Duhon is also good bench player. Add Sefolosha to the mix and Sweetney and I have to say that our bench is a step or two better then the Kings.

The fact remains that the Kings didn't play defense. Other then Christie the team was aweful defensively. So I think that pretty much takes away at least half of Webber's offensive production because the team gave up just as many easy points as he scored for them. Add the difference in our bench and I think we could put up a similar record and make a serious push in the playoffs (the same way the Kings did). However, when the game is on the line it would be nice to have a power forward who can play the screen and role and hit the 18 ft. jump shot with consistency. Same can be said of having a gaurd that can do the same. Bibby made just about every jumper off of screens that Webber set. I don't think that is something that either Gordon or Hinrich can do consistently. Ben Gordon's the best finisher on the Bulls but sometimes it is hard to get him the ball or for him to get a good look when someone is guarding him.

I think until we get that scoring big man whether it be a center or power forward, I don't think this team will be able to win it all. I hope I am wrong but if you look at the last 8 championships they have all had a low post threat. But the team to last win without an all-star caliber low post threat was the Bulls. Luc Longley was decent but far from being an all-star. That being said he was still better offensively then any big man we currently have.

Last 8 titles
Shaq - 4
Duncan -3
Rasheed Wallace - 1

[ZoomSlowik]

I think until we get that scoring big man whether it be a center or power forward, I don't think this team will be able to win it all. I hope I am wrong but if you look at the last 8 championships they have all had a low post threat. But the team to last win without an all-star caliber low post threat was the Bulls. Luc Longley was decent but far from being an all-star. That being said he was still better offensively then any big man we currently have.

They got away with it because Jordan was one of the best offensive post players in the league, he absolutely destroyed people with his turnaround. His career FG% was 49.7, which is pretty ridiculous for a guard.

[eddog2]

They got away with it because Jordan was one of the best offensive post players in the league, he absolutely destroyed people with his turnaround. His career FG% was 49.7, which is pretty ridiculous for a guard.

Don't forget about Pippen who was better then anyone on the Bulls right now.

[SoxFan1]

To say the Bulls bench is better than the Kings bench was is asinine IMO. That Kings team made the playoffs like 5-6 years in a row and made the conference finals twice I believe. And if it wasn't for Robert Horry and a lucky ass 3 at the buzzer, the Kings would have been in the Finals, and likely would have won.

That team was always hampered with injuries. Webber was always down, Stojakovic had problems, etc.

As far as the bench, they had veterans who knew about winning and they had the best 6th man in the league in Bobby Jackson. The Bulls have done nothing to show me that they are a better Bench than those Kings. Pollard and Funderburke are beter than Schencher and Sweetney.

[ZoomSlowik]

Don't forget about Pippen who was better then anyone on the Bulls right now.

Well, Pippen was also a factor with his high FG%, but he didn't really do any damage in the post, which is what I was commenting on.

[RememberThe90's]

Pollard and Funderburke are beter than Schencher and Sweetney.

I really don't even see Schencher making the team.

**crosses fingers**

[eddog2]

To say the Bulls bench is better than the Kings bench was is asinine IMO. That Kings team made the playoffs like 5-6 years in a row and made the conference finals twice I believe. And if it wasn't for Robert Horry and a lucky ass 3 at the buzzer, the Kings would have been in the Finals, and likely would have won.

That team was always hampered with injuries. Webber was always down, Stojakovic had problems, etc.

As far as the bench, they had veterans who knew about winning and they had the best 6th man in the league in Bobby Jackson. The Bulls have done nothing to show me that they are a better Bench than those Kings. Pollard and Funderburke are beter than Schencher and Sweetney.

First of all don't say my opinion is asinine when you specifically wanted me to stop making criticism of other people's ideas. 2nd as you read in my previous post I did acknowledge that the Kings did make it to the conference finals, and I did acknowledge that Bobby Jackson was good enough to start on most teams in the league. So that takes away from two of your arguements. As for the rest the Kings won primarily because of Bibby and Webber in those playoff games. Their starting 5 carried them through the playoffs with the exception of Turkoglu and Jackson stepping in. I remember countless times seeing Webber set the screen and Bibby knocking down the shot or Webber getting the pass and hitting the jumper. They had a 2 man game going on for much of each 4th quarter. They lost because of Horry but that doesn't mean their bench is better then the Bulls.

2nd don't question my post because it makes complete sense. And if before wasn't good enough here is more proof.

Pollard 6.4 pts, 7.1 rebs, 55% fg, 69% ft (in 23 minutes)
Jackson 11.1 pts, 2 asst, 36 % 3 pt (22 minutes)
Turkoglu 10.1 pts, 2 asst, 37% 3pt (25 minutes)
(the next guy in terms of production was Funderburke)
Funderburke 4.7 pts, 3.5 rebs (13 minutes)

Now to say the Bulls bench this year doesn't compare or isn't better is asinine. The Kings had 2 legitimate bench players and a few role guys. The Bulls have 4 plus legit bench players. (Sweetney, Sefolosha, Duhon and either Nocioni or Deng)(this doesn't include Thomas because I don't think he will make much impact in his rookie campaign. But then again who knows?). I take those four over the four listed above.

Either Deng or Nocioni is a bench player (however you want to view it)

Deng 14.3 pts, 6.6 rebs (33 minutes)
Nocioni 13 pts, 6.1 rebs (27 minutes)
Sweetney 8.1 pts, 5.3 rebs (18.5 minutes)
Sefolosha (to be seen) (probably something like this 9 pts, 5 reb, 2 stl, 1 blk in 23-25 minutes)
Duhon 8.7 pts, 5 asst, 1 stl (29 minutes)

Now tell me again why my idea was so asinine!

(I also would rather have Sweetney who has a legitimate low post game instead of Pollard. And look his offensive production was better in less minutes). The Bulls have a good back-up at every spot on the floor.

Looking back at the list of names on the Kings bench if they all were there in their prime then no doubt their bench would have been better. Chucky Atkins, Gerald Wallace, Turkoglu, Jackson and Pollard. That is a sick lineup and would even have been good enough to beat the Bobcats a few years ago. That being said the only players at the time who were at a stage in their career to significantly produce wre Turkoglu and Jackson. The Bulls have 4 or more players who can come off the bench and be contributors or who can legitimately fill in as starters when other players miss a game.

[Bullseye]

so, what type of food does this depth roaster roast?

[SoxFan1]

First of all don't say my opinion is asinine when you specifically wanted me to stop making criticism of other people's ideas. 2nd as you read in my previous post I did acknowledge that the Kings did make it to the conference finals, and I did acknowledge that Bobby Jackson was good enough to start on most teams in the league. So that takes away from two of your arguements. As for the rest the Kings won primarily because of Bibby and Webber in those playoff games. Their starting 5 carried them through the playoffs with the exception of Turkoglu and Jackson stepping in. I remember countless times seeing Webber set the screen and Bibby knocking down the shot or Webber getting the pass and hitting the jumper. They had a 2 man game going on for much of each 4th quarter. They lost because of Horry but that doesn't mean their bench is better then the Bulls.

2nd don't question my post because it makes complete sense. And if before wasn't good enough here is more proof.

Pollard 6.4 pts, 7.1 rebs, 55% fg, 69% ft (in 23 minutes)
Jackson 11.1 pts, 2 asst, 36 % 3 pt (22 minutes)
Turkoglu 10.1 pts, 2 asst, 37% 3pt (25 minutes)
(the next guy in terms of production was Funderburke)
Funderburke 4.7 pts, 3.5 rebs (13 minutes)

Now to say the Bulls bench this year doesn't compare or isn't better is asinine. The Kings had 2 legitimate bench players and a few role guys. The Bulls have 4 plus legit bench players. (Sweetney, Sefolosha, Duhon and either Nocioni or Deng)(this doesn't include Thomas because I don't think he will make much impact in his rookie campaign. But then again who knows?). I take those four over the four listed above.

Either Deng or Nocioni is a bench player (however you want to view it)

Deng 14.3 pts, 6.6 rebs (33 minutes)
Nocioni 13 pts, 6.1 rebs (27 minutes)
Sweetney 8.1 pts, 5.3 rebs (18.5 minutes)
Sefolosha (to be seen) (probably something like this 9 pts, 5 reb, 2 stl, 1 blk in 23-25 minutes)
Duhon 8.7 pts, 5 asst, 1 stl (29 minutes)

Now tell me again why my idea was so asinine!

(I also would rather have Sweetney who has a legitimate low post game instead of Pollard. And look his offensive production was better in less minutes). The Bulls have a good back-up at every spot on the floor.

Looking back at the list of names on the Kings bench if they all were there in their prime then no doubt their bench would have been better. Chucky Atkins, Gerald Wallace, Turkoglu, Jackson and Pollard. That is a sick lineup and would even have been good enough to beat the Bobcats a few years ago. That being said the only players at the time who were at a stage in their career to significantly produce wre Turkoglu and Jackson. The Bulls have 4 or more players who can come off the bench and be contributors or who can legitimately fill in as starters when other players miss a game.

My opinion is that your opninion was asinine. Big deal. I don't know why you're getting all personal.

Anyways, the only reason the Bulls players have better stats is because the Kings essentially had an 8 man rotation, as to where the Bulls had all 12 guys play in almost every game. Majority of games (especially in the playoffs) the Kings had a starting line up of Bibby, Christie, Stojakovic, Webber, and Divac and brought Jackson, Turkoglu, and Pollard. And BTW, Pollard didn'y score much because the Kings didn't run there offense with the center being a scoring threat. The Center's were always there to set picks, pass, and rebound. Divac was the best passing Center the game has ever seen, and the offense was run perfect with him in there.

And to add, you can't assume Sefolosha will have good numbers. Neither Tyrus nor Thabo have done anything to prove they will be legitimate NBA players. I fully expect Thabo to be just that, but he has to prove it. Besides, all this is moot until we seen the team on the court.

[ZoomSlowik]

Deng 14.3 pts, 6.6 rebs (33 minutes)
Nocioni 13 pts, 6.1 rebs (27 minutes)
Sweetney 8.1 pts, 5.3 rebs (18.5 minutes)
Sefolosha (to be seen) (probably something like this 9 pts, 5 reb, 2 stl, 1 blk in 23-25 minutes)
Duhon 8.7 pts, 5 asst, 1 stl (29 minutes)

Now tell me again why my idea was so asinine!

Those numbers seem a bit high outside of Nocioni. With the additions we have made, probably only Nocioni sees as many minutes as he did last year. There will be fewer minutes to go around, meaning the numbers go down. Plus as much as we like Sef, that's pretty optomistic. Think about it, the math won't allow those guys to all play that much. Let's see what we come up with making some assumptions on minutes for our key guys:

post- There are only two post spots, which means there are 96 minutes to go around. 35 or so go to Wallace, around 30 to Brown, let's just say 10 for Nocioni (that might even be a little low). That only leaves 21 minutes total for Sweetney, Thomas, and whomever else we have down there.

SF- Even assuming he plays some 2-guard, it's at least 28 a game for Deng here, and another 17 or so for Nocioni. That leaves only about 3 minutes at SF for Griffin, or maybe playing Sef or Gordon here in a 3-guard look occasionally.

SG- Gordon plays at least 30 a game, probably more. Sef probably gets another 10 to 15. That leaves 8 minutes max for Griffin or possibly another PG.

PG- Hinrich plays 35 a game. Let's just assume 10 for Duhon. Sef gets what's left.

So unless one of the key guys plays less (only one I can see is Brown), Sweetney's absolute tops is about 15 minutes, Sefolosha's is about 20, and Duhon's is under 15. It'd be very difficult for those guys to put up solid numbers with that little playing time.

[HoofHearted]

post- There are only two post spots, which means there are 96 minutes to go around. 35 or so go to Wallace, around 30 to Brown, let's just say 10 for Nocioni (that might even be a little low). That only leaves 21 minutes total for Sweetney, Thomas, and whomever else we have down there.

I dont see PJ getting more than 20 minutes a game. A nice breakdown of post time to me is.......

PF
Sweetney-20
Thomas-12
Brown-18
Wallace-33
Allen-13


I'd like to see Allen more than 13 mpg this season, and really get a look at what he can do, he looked pretty good in the limited time he got down the stretch.