Here's what I don't get about the love of the Celtics right now. Forgive me if I'm restating anything else they've said.


1. Remember the Rockets? You know, the team with Barkley, Pippin, and Olajuwon? What did they win exactly? The key always seems to be 2 top tier players, not 3. How do you share the ball among all 3 players?
2. Everyone focuses on the fact that all these guys average 20 points per game. Is that fully possible with the 3 of them trying to share the ball? I'm not so certain.
3. Point Guards are still important. Can this team be a championship contending team with Rajon Rondo, he without an outside shot at all, as the point guard? I don't really think so.
4. Depth. So these 3 guys are going to have to play 40+ minutes a game basically as their depth is terrible. Brian Scalabrine is a key minutes contributer. They don't have a true backup at PG, SG, or SF. And they're at cap level already and awfully close to luxury tax. With only 3 players under contract.
5. Injuries. The past few years both Pierce and Allen have missed a lot of time. They played 46 and 55 games, respectively. Are they breaking down a bit?

Will they be improved? No question. But a championship contender? No depth, no key vets, no solid pg play....I can see another early playoff exit.

Allen is still an elite shooter, and Pierce and Garnett have shown no signs of wearing down whatsoever (Pierce's injury was a broken bone, can't really avoid that). Though two of them had injury problems last year, they were still all more effective scorers than anyone on the Bulls. Plus two of them are jump-shooters, so they're not going to totally fall off the face of the earth. Basketball players can easily still play at a high level until 35, these guys should easily have a few years.

I'm not arguing the supporting cast, that's why I still have the Bulls ahead of them. Still, I can't really see them winning fewer than about 45 with that core unless serious injuries strike. After that, it'll depend on how much they get from other people.

1) All of those guys were shells of their former selves by then, and it happened during the lockout year where everyone had a considerable amount of rust. Hakeem and Barkley were 36, and Pippen was 33 and starting to have injury issues. That's not really the same at all, the only one you can even remotely argue has started to fall off is Allen, and he still averaged 26 a game last year when he played.

Same with the Lakers when they had Kobe, Shaq, Malone, and Payton. Payton was 35 and no longer a top option, Malone was 40 and missed half the year, and Shaq was also starting to get less effective at that time (still only 31, but injuries were starting to mount).

The last time we saw 3 guys like that was the mid-80's Celtics, though they don't have anywhere near that supporting cast.

2) It can definitely be done, especially since KG and Allen don't really dominate the ball. Trio's combining for 60+ points is entirely possible. The Bulls did it for years with Michael, Scottie, and Grant/Kukoc, the Lakers did it with Shaq, Kobe, and Rice/Fisher, The Rockets did it for the second title with Hakeem, Drexler, and Thorpe/Maxwell (both averaged 13), the Celtics did it with Bird, McHale, and Parish, The Lakers did it with Magic, Worthy, and Scott, even getting Jabbar 17 a game as well the first time. I'm sure I can keep going. There are definitely enough shots to go around, especially when they don't have anyone else that'll take a significant number of shots.

3) The Lakers didn't have a real PG when they won their 3 titles either. Derek Fisher was basically a 2-guard in a PG's body, Kobe led the team in assists each of their title years. The Bulls never had a real PG either, Ron Harper played there but certainly didn't do much ball-distributing. The big 3 are going to have the ball basically all the time, you don't want a guy that's going to dominate possession. All they need is a guy that can play D and hit the occasional open jumper. He can at least do the former.

4) Depth is an issue, but Tony Allen is a capable backup at either wing spot (he could even start for a lot of teams), and if their owner endorsed adding those two big salaries I don't see another few mil for some backups stopping him. They still have their exemption, and with that core they can likely convince someone to take less pay to take a shot at a title. That will be a factor though, they need at least one good veteran glue-guy to have any shot at beating the other top teams.

5) Pierce has played at least 79 games for the previous 6 years and his injury was a broken bone, which isn't an endurance/age thing. Garnett has been one of the most durable guys in the league for a LONG time, so he's not really a concern at all. You do worry about Allen a bit, he's missed a fair number of games in the past. As long as he's healthy for the playoffs though that's all that'll really matter, as Pierce and Garnett have both carried crappy teams on their own for long stretches.

While I don't think they'll inevitably win the title, I just don't see how you can rule out a team with 3 guys THAT good, especially in a conference that doesn't have a whole lot of dominant teams.

I definately agree with you on the fact that we are talking 2 different leagues when you try and compare the scoring of Allen/KG/Pierce with Deng/Gordon/Hinrich (Hinrich of all people are you kidding me). I really like your post Zoom.

Anway, let me add my piece to it.

Let's start off by saying that next year the most improved player will be none other than Rajon Rondo. That's right. I said it first. I've been so high on this guy from day 1 and now I'm even more excited to see my boy from Kentucky represent. Imagine what he is going to do with so many options to pass the ball to. Rajon and his super quick first step will get to the hole and either be able to set up KG nice and pretty or he'll be able to break the defense down and find either Pierce or Allen wide open at the arc. I hate to say it but I'm going to love watching the Celtics next year. That's simply as a basketball fan.

Okay, so I think this could go down as on of the best 3 superstar pairings this league has seen in a long time. In terms of the way their games all completment each other I really couldn't draw it up much better. The only thing I am worried about is age. If one of them goes down with injury, the team will take a major hit.

As for the bench, I think we are underestimating it a bit. Did Lebron and the Cavs have a good bench? I would say it was decent but nothing great. Not to mention they went to the finals with basically no production from Hughes.

As it stands, the Celtics have Tony Allen (who's a pretty good option), Glen Davis who is unproven but who at the least will be a big body down low with scoring ability, Leon Powe who's going to be better in his second year, & they just signed Eddie House who will be a good backup PG who can hit the outside shot.

Not to mention that Doc Rivers is strongly pursuing Dikembe Mutombo. If they get Dikembe they are going to be very, very, strong defensively in the paint. Zoom you don't give Pierce much credit on defense but I think he's a good defensive player. The one I worry about is Allen who's getting older, but that's like Ben Gordon except at least he has height. As for Rondo he's a good defender and an excellent lane defender with his long arms. We all know KG plays good D. Kendrick Perkins' D will only get better when he's next to KG.

The Celtics have also been in talks with Jalen Rose, and I wouldn't be shocked if they landed someone like PJ Brown or another good vet. The Celtics have $3.8 million of their mid-level left which is more than enough to get a decent player to sign a 1 year contract. Players looking to win that title would definately be willing to go there to try and win on before they retire.

Even without getting any good players, this team is still in a good position to make the finals if they can avoid any big injuries.


Players that are still available: Chris Webber, (imagine them adding Chris Webber), Matt Barnes, Dikembe Mutombo, Ime Udoka (a defensive stud who would make a lot of sense), PJ Brown, Malik Allen, Austin Croshere, Kevin Willis, Aaron McKie, Eddie Jones, Gary Payton, Melvin Ely, Jarvis Hayes, Danny Fortson, Jalen Rose, Devin Brown (who really played well at the end of last year), Mike Wilks (not a great option but showed some potential last season)

Oh, I forgot to mention Troy Hudson, Ruben Patterson who would make great additions. And last but not least, James Posey (who I hate, and is one of my least favorite players)

In short, I'm picking them as an 80% likelihood to make the finals if they don't have a major injury. However, it will be a tough series b/t them and the Bulls. The Bulls, if the rookies step up and Tyrus/Deng & Gordon all are significantly better could beat any team in the league. Hopefully, they do.

As for the Rockets, if they lose Dikembe they are going to be in a tough situation unless they can trade a couple of PG's for a good backup center.

Even if they only get 45 wins which isn't likely (they will be 50+) and they just sneak into the playoffs, which again isn't likely, if their team is healthy they still will be the most dangerous team in the playoffs. It's that simple when you have that much star power.

Yeah those celtics in the playoffs....bc, u know, all 3 of those guys have had good success in the playoffs. the pressure of not blowing it will be enough to keep this team down to earth

but i do think 45 wins isnt insane bc u have to figure one of them will miss like 15 games at least

This team will be like the wizards in the sense that when the big 3 are "on" they will win and when they arent they will lose. The only difference is if all three guys have their A games on the wiz, they can still lose to the better teams.

That's far from a lock, Garnett has played at least 76 games each of the last 8 years (and maybe a few more if his team was going somewhere), Pierce's broken foot last year, which isn't exactly an age/endurance injury, broke a 6 year streak of playing at least 79, and even the fairly fragile Ray Allen has played 76 or more 3 of the last 5 years. It's not like we're talking about Chris Webber, Grant Hill, and Shaq. Also, this is BY FAR the best core any of them have had, so I wouldn't put too much stock in the past playoff performances. Playing with these guys is a bit different than the one year KG had a good team with Sprewell and Cassell that he carred to the conference finals, or a while back when Pierce and chucker-supreme Antoine Walker did the same thing.

As for Washington, Boston still has an advantage over them in that they'll play at least SOME defense. Garnett and Rondo are both beasts on that end, about all Washington has on that front is Stephenson.

Ray allen is a terrible defender. Terrible. Pierce is a smaller sf at 6'6. It will be interesting to see him guard 6;9 and 6'10 guys like rashard lewis and lu. What about lebron, melo etc? Pierce has always guarded 2s. Most games will match him up agst an unfamiliar defensive assignment. I dont think he can guard big strong sfs like lebron and melo. Just isnt happening.

The interior D will be good, but again depth is an issue. Tony allen is a ?. And behind KG and Perkins are there any reliable shot blockers or rebounders?

Im not worried about them really. If they are legitimate contenders they should be more worried about us. I dont see how we arent an elite team in the east right now that shouldnt be worried about a team like Boston. We know that we will own Miami if we face them in the playoffs. Cleveland has never matched up well against us and has yet again not done anything big to improve. Detroit is our biggest concern and they are a year older and we are a year more experienced and have added more depth and talent while only really losing PJ.

I honestly think that the 3 teams the Bulls have to worry most about are

1. The Celtics
2. The Magic
3. The Pistions

Celtics

I really think it is in that order. I really think they would have trouble matching up with the Celtics b/c they don't have anyone to guard KG, Lu would have difficulty guarding Pierce, Gordon would difinately have trouble guarding Allen (though Thabo probably could do a good job), & although everyone thinks Kirk is a great defender, I think Rondo would be too quick for him.

Of course, the Celtics would have trouble guarding Gordon, Deng ect. and the Bulls have a deeper bench, but that is a lot of star power to overcome.

Magic

The Magic really give us problems for some reason. I know the main reason is that we have no answers for Dwight Howard. Howard was very good last year, and he'll be even better next year. Especially with Lewis taking the double team away from him. I really think Lewis is going to have a huge impact not only in the offense and 3 point shooting he provides, but just by being on the court, it will open up so many opportunities for Nelson, Turkoglu, Howard, ect. Not to mention that Reddick likely will play a lot more this year and he'll likely be a very good outside shooter.

The Pistons

The Pistons are the Pistons and they are always tough. However, every year, they get a little older. Plus they likely will be without Chris Webber next year. However, Maxiell is not a bad option and will likely be better next eyar. Rasheed Wallace will be 33 this year. Billups will be 31. Hamilton is 29. The only real good "young" player they have is Prince who is 27. If Stuckey, or Amir Johnson make big contributions next year, then I'll have to reconsider my post. However, my money is that this team takes a step back from last year. Plus, we'll have more depth (and I think homecourt advantage) should we have to meet them again next year.




I guess I could have put Toronto higher than the Pistons as well. They are going to be better with another year together, plus they also added Kapono who could be lethal in that style of offense that rely's on the 3. The more I think about it, Toronto may even be the 2nd most scary team for the Bulls to face in the playoffs.

I think that Miami if they get healthly could potentially be more dangerous than the Pistons. Especially if they get Ron Artest or Corey Maggette sometime next season.

I think the Cavs have given the Bulls some problems in the past as well. Its pretty hard stoppin LeBron in the playoffs.

The Bulls also have one of the best one on one defenders in the NBA, who just happens to play LeBrons same position. I actually think we get burned worse by guys like Ilgauskus and Gooden than we do James. We just have to make sure that the secondary players don't beat us.

And you'll notice one thing about those 2 guys...they happen to both have this wierd thing called "Size" which for the last 2 years was a pretty big weakness on the Bulls, but which now has become a strength.

Definitely agree, with Smith and Noah joining the team as well as Tyrus developing I don't think we'll see guys like Mikki Moore and Drew Gooden consistently getting 16 a game against us.

I really hope that starts to end now. Really that has been our weakness for years now. If we can stop those kind of nights, this team is a NBA finals type group.