Tyrus v Lamarcus, Did we make the right choice? Options

[Chicago Bulls Fr...]

Ok, Im calling it, a Tyrus v Lamarcus thread just for discussion. Do you think we still made the right choice with Tyrus? Or do you think we should have kept Lamarcus?

Right now Tyrus is averaging 4.6 ppg 3.4 rpg and 1.1 bpg

Right now Lamarcus is averaging 9.1 ppg 5.0 rpg and 1.2 bpg

It looks as though Lamarcus may have been the better choice by those stats but I beg to differ. Right now I would say Aldridge might help us a tad bit more than Tyrus could because of his low post scoring ability and his 6'10 frame but Tyrus ever since allstar break has definitely grown up and has shown signs of becoming the player I had invisioned later on in his career. In terms of blocking shots, Tyrus is among the top 5 in blocks per 48 minutes but his offensive game is not great right now. The only reason Lamarcus is averaging more points is because he is starting and playing considerably more minutes per game than Tyrus Thomas. In the future I see Tyrus blowing by Lamarcus Aldridge because he is the more physical of the two and if he can just get stronger he will be unstoppable with a low post game.

IMO Tyrus's cieling is around 20 ppg 12 rpg 3-4 bpg and 2 apg

Thats about what I'd say is his Maximum potential.

This is what I feel is like Aldridge's cieling. 21 ppg 10 rpg 2 bpg 3 apg

Pretty close but like I said, I think Tyrus can surpass him within 2-3 years, we won't even be having this discussion after both there careers are over.

But going back to the question, would you rather have Aldridge or Tyrus for the future?

[TeaLeafReaderII]

I really think Tyrus isn't too far off from finding a nice outside shot. He just needs an offseason or two to perfect it. When he does, I don't think there is going to be any question that he was the better pick.

[ZoomSlowik]

Wow, you need to put down the Tyrus kool-aid. Kareem and Hakeem are about the only guys EVER to do that for more than one season (well, and probably Wilt, they didn't keep track of blocks back then). He has potential, but that's like Top-50 player ever level. Even his rebounding and block numbers are high in that scenario, and those are his strengths. I would expect something more like Tyson Chandler for the near future, or at least until he shows some kind of ability to consistently create his own shot.

Aldridge has been damn good of late, averging 16.4 points, 8.5 rebounds and 1.69 blocks this month while shooting almost 54%. Yeah, playing time is a factor, but you still have to earn it. Also, realistically with Nocioni out their potential for minutes isn't really that different. Don't get me wrong, Tyrus looks better than I expected, but Aldridge appears to be much farther along at this point, which makes him a safer bet while still having a solid ceiling (which is I believe what I said leading up to the draft).

Yes, it's still WAY too early to make any conclusions, but Aldridge looks like the early leader (and on a side note, Brandon Roy was an absolute steal). However, maybe in 3 years Tyrus is another Shawn Marion while Aldridge is more like Drew Gooden, it's hard to say when both guys are fairly raw.

[sport1016]

aldridge
worst case: jamal magloire
best case: chris bosh
Best guess: Juwan Howard......Aldridge looks like a bosh clone, except that in college he didnt appear to be able to carry a franchise...can he develop this? More likely while his moves may resemble bosh's his stats will simply be less significant...think juwan howard....solid, maybe a couple all star games, but not a superstar

TT
worst case: 6'9 Tyson Chandler
Best case: ???????? AK47 wearing a jetpack
Best Guess: Here's the thing about tyrus, as all the analysts say he was the only one in the '06 draft who had enough talent to be a top 10 player in the league. And they are right. He has shown that his unique explosiveness can take over a game and set a tenacious defensive tone. He is the kind of player who could win defensive player of the year and blocking titles for 5 years in a row. However he could also be an undersized 4 without enough perimeter skills to be a 3.

What should the Bulls have done:
First of all, a lot of people approached this topic with who will be a better player. I can assure you that it will be tyrus. I think aldridge could have a good career, even maybe a chris webber quality career. He will probably be a 20 10 or thereabouts guy at his ceiling. But while aldridge is no slouch defensively, I believe once tyrus bulks up a little will transcend the game defensively. We all worried that tyrus would be another chandler bc we all heard he was "raw." While tyrus is raw in the sense he doesnt have refined moves on offense, he already has two things chandler never had that I think we all associated with the "raw" label. His Timing and Hands are amazing compared to chandler. Chandler always had one block a game he rose high for and sent into the seats, but tyrus gets up there for every shot and tips the ball to himself or a guard. He gets in passing lanes and strips balls where chandler would have fouled. We're always complaining about him running the break, but it's bc his basketball IQ and athleticism already add up to a very well rounded defensive player (he can guard 4 positions). I fully expect tyrus to be able to be top 5 in blocks and steals and rebounds (explosive jump + timing = rebounding title) in 4-5 few years, like wallace was in his prime. But tyrus, unlike wallace or chandler, already scores. In only 27 minutes he had 13 points tonight. And he always scores when he gets decent minutes. And this is without a reliable jump shot or post move. Just his timing and athleticism allow him to make so many drives and putbacks around the basket already. In 4 years tyrus is going to one of the most unique and exciting players in the nba. Though he could score as much as aldridge, he probably won't. But he should go down as one of the best defensive players ever.

However, this is not how i choose to approach the debate. If the bulls knew they were getting wallace, aldridge fits perfectly with him bc of his size and inside scoring. If the Bulls were planning on trying to win a championship with wallace they should have picked aldridge plain and simple. But, as we all know, the bulls never expected wallace to leave detroit and tried to rectify said mistake by getting PJ in hopes of a midseason trade. Drafting tyrus puts us in a precarious situation. Because tyrus isnt tall enough to play center, assuming your front line of the future is tyrus, deng and someone, you are now forced to draft a center in the next draft that primarily features post scorers who are power forwards. Unless you hope to play tyrus at center one day, you have to draft a big to backup wallace and be his successor in 2 years. If we had drafted aldridge, who can play the 4 or 5, you would have more players to choose from in this draft.

Personally, I hope we trade the knicks pick unless we're getting oden or hibbert for a veteran center. Tyrus doesnt fit great with wallace, but in the future he could be that franchise player that pundits still argue the bulls need. Imagine having a scorer at the 5 along with tyrus who will be a feared defensive player and can score with deng. Bc of tyrus' versatility he can guard the best player in the front court bc deng can slide over and guard a 4 at 6'9 1/2.

[madisonsmadhouse]

Ask me in a couple of years, but this is how I see it. Aldridge has a much more polished game today, but a much lower ceiling. Thomas is a freak athlete, who needs to listen to Scott Skiles every second of everyday to learn the game of basketball. If they can hone his ability, and narrow his focus to optimize his game, he is going to be an elite player. The question becomes can they do it? He will be a project. The nice thing is that with the Bulls depth, they can bring him along as they need to.

[Balta1701-B]

I did this quick analysis and posted it a few days ago over @ the mother ship. The numbers may have changed slightly (TT did grab a double-double last night), but I think the point still holds.

I leaned strongly towards Aldridge before the draft, but the more I watch Thomas, the more I think the Bulls made the right choice. Tyrus is a year younger than Aldridge, but when you count how each of them have performed per minute of game time, Thomas gets almost 2x the amount of blocks per minute, 1.2 times the number of rebounds per minute, and .9x the amount of points per minute. In other words, they're almost the same on scoring, but on the defensive parts, Thomas has so far been significantly more productive in the time he's been given.

Either way, neither of these guys came into this season ready to be full time starters on playoff caliber teams. Aldridge has had the luxury of being able to take his time and grow on a team that needs him; that team is pretty desperate for anyone who can play. TT has been stuck on the bench for much of the year on a team that is playoff bound and may get a #2 seed. That's going to depress anyone's numbers, and probably depress anyone's #'s per minute as well.

Overall, I'm leaning more and more towards thinking the Bulls made the right choice. Hopefully next season that begins to be shown more completely.

[soxfan3530]

Alridge also plays a lot more than Tyrus. Ill take Tyrus' upside and athletic ability. I still like the choice we made

[ZoomSlowik]

Ask me in a couple of years, but this is how I see it. Aldridge has a much more polished game today, but a much lower ceiling. Thomas is a freak athlete, who needs to listen to Scott Skiles every second of everyday to learn the game of basketball. If they can hone his ability, and narrow his focus to optimize his game, he is going to be an elite player. The question becomes can they do it? He will be a project. The nice thing is that with the Bulls depth, they can bring him along as they need to.

I wouldn't say that his ceiling is MUCH higher. Most people say that Aldridge has 20-10 potential, and he isn't a slouch athletically. It's hard to get too much better than that as a big man. I would say it is a bit higher because Tyrus appears to be much more likely to be a defensive stopper, but it also looks like Aldridge is more likely to be a major offensive threat, which means Tyrus has to close that gap a bit.

Best case scenarios, I'd say Tyrus turns into Shawn Marion (only switch the steals and blocks) and Aldridge turns into Chris Bosh. You can debate which one you'd rather have, I'd personally lean towards Bosh a bit. Of course the real question is which is more like to get there? The jury is still out on that one...

[Balta1701-B]

Best case scenarios, I'd say Tyrus turns into Shawn Marion (only switch the steals and blocks) and Aldridge turns into Chris Bosh. You can debate which one you'd rather have, I'd personally lean towards Bosh a bit. Of course the real question is which is more like to get there? The jury is still out on that one...

I don't think Tyrus has a shot at developing the kind of outside shot presence and threat that Marion has. If we're looking to the Suns and saying "highest possible ceiling", I think TT fits the Amare role a lot more than the Marion role.

[madisonsmadhouse]

I wouldn't say that his ceiling is MUCH higher. Most people say that Aldridge has 20-10 potential, and he isn't a slouch athletically. It's hard to get too much better than that as a big man. I would say it is a bit higher because Tyrus appears to be much more likely to be a defensive stopper, but it also looks like Aldridge is more likely to be a major offensive threat, which means Tyrus has to close that gap a bit.

Best case scenarios, I'd say Tyrus turns into Shawn Marion (only switch the steals and blocks) and Aldridge turns into Chris Bosh. You can debate which one you'd rather have, I'd personally lean towards Bosh a bit. Of course the real question is which is more like to get there? The jury is still out on that one...

I think if Tyrus works on it, he could be a hell of a low post scorer, and a great one on one scorer. You cannot teach the explosiveness first step and leaping ability that Tyrus has. If someone sits down with him and teaches his footwork to him, he could be a guy who scores 20-25 a game. That being said, the odds are probably long of that happening, because Tyrus seems to have a pretty short attention span about things. I do think he will settle in the 15 point 12 rebound 2 block area in his career, which will be nice with the guard work the Bulls have.

[ZoomSlowik]

I don't think Tyrus has a shot at developing the kind of outside shot presence and threat that Marion has. If we're looking to the Suns and saying "highest possible ceiling", I think TT fits the Amare role a lot more than the Marion role.

I'd say he'll be closer to Marion than Amare. I don't think he's ever going to be that kind of post scorer, though he'll also likely be a better defender than Amare is right now. The only real difference I see between him at his peak and Marion is that 3-pointer, and that's more of a style/shot selection difference than anything...

I think if Tyrus works on it, he could be a hell of a low post scorer, and a great one on one scorer. You cannot teach the explosiveness first step and leaping ability that Tyrus has. If someone sits down with him and teaches his footwork to him, he could be a guy who scores 20-25 a game. That being said, the odds are probably long of that happening, because Tyrus seems to have a pretty short attention span about things. I do think he will settle in the 15 point 12 rebound 2 block area in his career, which will be nice with the guard work the Bulls have.

It'd take A TON of work to turn him into a serious scorer at this point. He has virtually no experience/moves with his back to the basket, doesn't yet have a reliable jumper, and lacks the solid ball-handling skills necessary to be an elite slasher. That makes it a little hard to develop into an elite scorer. Impossible? No, but it does seem like a stretch until we at least see some significant progress.

Yes, that last scenario is roughly what I see as a reasonable expectation for him in a few years (though 12 boards is probably a bit of a stretch with his current bulk level, I'd expect more like 9 or 10), basically what Josh Smith gives you right now. Obviously I wouldn't have a problem with that kind of production.

[sport1016]

Tyrus reminds me a lot of Jermaine O'neal in the sense that he came in raw but appeared to have immediate ability, and bc of said ability he developed a refined offensive game over a few years.

I don't like comparing tyrus to marion bc he will never have the offensive variety or ball handling. He's not amare bc he's not physically imposing. He's more of a hrybrid, probably closer to garnett (who also came in as a sf/pf and turned into a pf/c).

He will be unique bc he will be more dominant on defense then all three if he bulks up enough to play the 4 consisently. Which he can absolutely do. He's only 20 and I really haven't seen him have any trouble yet anyway. He's so long. Remember how thin Amare and JOneal and Dwight howard were when they came in?

If he can develop a reliable midrange jump shot a la PJ he can use his explosiveness to drive past bigger and slower pfs the way luol and noc have done when matched up on bigger guys. And though he isn't 6'11 like amare, oneal, and howard, driving past rasheed wallace yesterday he showed that his wingspan and explosiveness make up for that.

I don't know about 20-25 points a game, but if he works hard and bulks up I can see 16-18 easily with double digit rebounds, and game changing defense.

I wish we could get him to start working with luol, who is well-known for putting in the most time afterhours at the berto center. Deng has already said he will be working on his lost post game and re-adding the 3 to his game. If tyrus could bulk up with him and work in the low post, if those two could develop good chemsitry, they could become one of the best front lines in the league, probably best in the east.

[Chicago Bulls Fr...]

Wow, you need to put down the Tyrus kool-aid. Kareem and Hakeem are about the only guys EVER to do that for more than one season (well, and probably Wilt, they didn't keep track of blocks back then). He has potential, but that's like Top-50 player ever level. Even his rebounding and block numbers are high in that scenario, and those are his strengths. I would expect something more like Tyson Chandler for the near future, or at least until he shows some kind of ability to consistently create his own shot.

Aldridge has been damn good of late, averging 16.4 points, 8.5 rebounds and 1.69 blocks this month while shooting almost 54%. Yeah, playing time is a factor, but you still have to earn it. Also, realistically with Nocioni out their potential for minutes isn't really that different. Don't get me wrong, Tyrus looks better than I expected, but Aldridge appears to be much farther along at this point, which makes him a safer bet while still having a solid ceiling (which is I believe what I said leading up to the draft).

Yes, it's still WAY too early to make any conclusions, but Aldridge looks like the early leader (and on a side note, Brandon Roy was an absolute steal). However, maybe in 3 years Tyrus is another Shawn Marion while Aldridge is more like Drew Gooden, it's hard to say when both guys are fairly raw.

I don't understand why 20 and 12 is not feasable for Tyrus as his max potential. Just because I threw this number out there doesnt mean he will average that throughout his career. Kevin Garnet is averaging 23 ppg and 13 rpg so I don't understand your point.

[ZoomSlowik]

I don't understand why 20 and 12 is not feasable for Tyrus as his max potential. Just because I threw this number out there doesnt mean he will average that throughout his career. Kevin Garnet is averaging 23 ppg and 13 rpg so I don't understand your point.

So now he's KG with twice as many blocks? Those projected numbers would put him as the leader for defensive player of the year (since he'd basically be leading the league in rebounds and blocks at those levels) as well as averaging 20 a game, which is a major stretch from his current production/talent level. Has he shown any indication of being THAT type of player yet, especially in the scoring department? I don't know how you can say that. The only guys who have been put up those kind of numbers in recent history are Shaq, Duncan, Robinson, Ewing and Olajuwon (notice all of them are also considerably bigger).

Garnett was light-years better, he averaged 10 and 6 in his first year out of high school. Tyrus had 2 years at LSU and is still not at that level yet. Tyrus has talent, but let's not get carried away here. I'd be pretty happy with 15 points, 9 boards, and 2 blocks, even that would be a huge step up...

[Chicago Bulls Fr...]

So now he's KG with twice as many blocks? Those projected numbers would put him as the leader for defensive player of the year (since he'd basically be leading the league in rebounds and blocks at those levels) as well as averaging 20 a game, which is a major stretch from his current production/talent level. Has he shown any indication of being THAT type of player yet, especially in the scoring department? I don't know how you can say that. The only guys who have been put up those kind of numbers in recent history are Shaq, Duncan, Robinson, Ewing and Olajuwon (notice all of them are also considerably bigger).

Garnett was light-years better, he averaged 10 and 6 in his first year out of high school. Tyrus had 2 years at LSU and is still not at that level yet. Tyrus has talent, but let's not get carried away here. I'd be pretty happy with 15 points, 9 boards, and 2 blocks, even that would be a huge step up...

If you remember, Olajuwan had little offensive game to begin with when he came out and developed it as the years went by. Your blowing this whole thing WAY out of proportion. Tyrus was listed as the most athletic freakish player in the draft and he looks like he has the most "potential" out of all of them. Thus meaning his potential stats should be based on his potential or atleast thats what im telling you.

sorry for saying potential so much lol