The Differences B/W Tyson Chandler and Tyrus Thomas, And why Derrick Rose won't make Tyrus better Options

[SoxFan1]

I've been hearing a lot recently about how Rose would be the right pick because he would make Tyrus a much better player, and I'm beginning to wonder where people are getting these assumptions from. The immediate comparison (and most oft used here) has been Rose/Tyrus = Paul/Chandler. It seems people are a bit high on the lottery still and thinking unrealistically.

First off, to those who think Rose is going to come in an light the world on fire, be cautiously optimistic. Chris Paul as a rookie (80 starts) dropped 16.1 ppg and 7.8 apg. Deron Williams as a rookie (47 starts) scored 10.1 with 4.5 apg. People are expecting CP3 2008 numbers out of Rose as a rookie and it just doesn't happen like that. He'll be good, damn good, but he's not a finished product yet. And on top of that, there are no guarantees we will pick him anyway.

Now, as far as the Tyson/Tyrus comparisons, they really disappoint me. I don't know how many times people have said Tyrus is a good defender down low. Are you watching the same team as me? Tyrus is a poor man on man defender. Nearly all of his blocks come from help defense or from scuffles down low. His rebounding isn't really a skill, just more so that he is able to out-jump a ton of other players. But anyway, people are saying that Paul has helped Chandler so much and made him the player he is....umm, no. First off, Chris Paul is a top 2 PG in the league. Between he and Deron Williams, its very close. Rose isn't going to come in and be an MVP candidate right away. Second, Tyson Chandler has comparable numbers to what he had in his career in Chicago. His rebounding and scoring increases are pretty much because of more minutes and consistent minutes.

Now, as far as abilities, we all know Tyrus is a freak athlete, but he has very little skill. Tyson possesses skills. He is a great defender, one of the top in the game. He displays passion that are rarely seen by anyone in the league, let alone on the Bulls. Tyrus only gets excited when he gets a huge dunk and-one. Then he misses the FT and goes back to his mediocre self. I'll never forget Tyson's block on Paul Pierce to save a game and help clinch a playoff birth for the Bulls a few years back. Tyson actually has skill as a defender. When the hell has Tyrus Thomas ever shown ANY kind of defensive abilities like Chandler. And blocks don't really count for TT because he attempts to block everything, and with his jumping ability, he'll run into a few.

Don't get me wrong, he's definitely benefited from having CP3 tossing him alley oops 6 times a game, but basically that's all of his offensive output. He still doesn't have any real offensive game. Balta, you've been throwing around the "Put Rose/Tyrus in a room and make them watch Tyson/CP3 videos" stuff, but you have to want to be good. Tyrus has no work ethic whatsoever. He is pretty content with rotting away on the bench. He said it himself, the dunk contest was all about the free money. He seems like he has no motivation. Instead of working to gain starting minutes, he just thinks it should be granted to him. I recall draft day 2006 that some people proposed we take Tyrus over Aldridge because Tyrus had much better potential and wasn't "soft" and had a great attitude. Yes, great attitude. I have yet to see that.

When have we ever read about Tyrus Thomas busting his ass at practice, or getting to practice early or something? Never. We only hear about how he skips practice, is a numskull, and lashes out as his coaches. Tyrus has passion, sure. But his passion is different than Chandlers. Tyrus passion is selfish. Tyson's passion was always team oriented. He was excited to be on the court and to contribute. Skiles said it himself, "the next time Tyrus runs down the court hard will be the first." I specifically recall one possession where Tyrus stood in the half circle behind the free throw line nearly the entire possesion while the offense passed it around the perimeter. He had his arms out asking for the ball with a guy standing right on him. And when he didn't get the ball, he threw his arms down in disgust and jogged back down to the other end of the court.

One thing I'll give Tyrus is that he actually has SOME (not very much) offensive ability. He has an ok jump shot (though extremely inconsistent) but still has no low post moves. He can't post up because he can't control his dribble long enough to do so, he doesn't have enough strength, and he is a terrible finisher. He's one of the worst finishers in the league because of it, uncontested dunks/layups are virtually all he makes. I'd still much rather have Tyson Chandler. Tyson's offensive potential never really came to fruition, but he still worked on his defense. I don't see any of that in Tyrus. Now he is going to be working out with Thorpe? Whoop dee doo, he coached Bosh and Harrington...both of them are PF's who rely a TON on jumpshots. That is not what we want from Tyrus. We need him to be a PF and bang down low. Tyson at least had the size, where as Tyrus is an undersized PF.

Tyrus' best opportunity would have come had D'Antoni been hired as Coach. Now, I have a hard time thinking he'll even be on the Bulls come October.

[Chicago Bulls Fr...]

Many people overestimate Derrick Rose as a rookie. I look at this kinda like Kirk's rookie year. He averaged 35 mpg, he averaged about 12 ppg and 7 apg, I think Rose can match that.

As for Tyrus, if all he has to do is stand in the paint and wait for a Rose pass he will tear it up. His only hope is to either get a back to the basket game, or become a jump shooter/driver ala Chris Bosh, Lamarcus Aldridge. Even though Lamarcus has a little bit of a post up game, I find it funny how people consider him being a low post scorer when 65% of his shot attempts are jumpers.. go figure.

Comparing Tyson to Tyrus isn't really that fair either. Tyson is 4 inches taller and has been in the league longer, obviously. You also have to note that he came in with Eddy Curry where all he had to rely on was his defense and rebounding. Tyrus has nobody to rely on because Noah is just as bad as he is when it comes to scoring down low.

[SoxFan1]

As for Tyrus, if all he has to do is stand in the paint and wait for a Rose pass he will tear it up.

No. No he will not.

I keep hearing this, but no one elaborates.

[TeaLeafReaderII]

Tyrus' improvement will come from more minutes and more expirience. Getting Rose means that might happen on the Bulls. Getting Beasley means it will occur somewhere else.

Do you have a contact in the Berto center? It seems like you are basing an awful lot on the fact the Tyrus was rude to Sam Smith, a quote that Skiles immidiately retracted, and the fact that Tyrus was among the 15 Bulls that Boylan rubbed the wrong way.

Coming into this year Tyrus had no jump shot. Now he is relatively consistant with that 15 footer. That tells me he is putting in time in the offseason. If he is able to keep adding things like that to his game, he will continue to improve. If he doesn't, he will stay where he is at and provide a couple "high energy" plays a game and otherwise be completely useless.

The only comparison between Tyrus and Tyson that I see is that Skiles stunted their developement by destroying their confidence.

[eddog2]

The only comparison between Tyrus and Tyson that I see is that Skiles stunted their developement by destroying their confidence.

Skiles stunted everyones growth (Gordon's, Tyrus', Tyson's, and to some extent Kirk's) None of these players played consistent minutes except for Kirk. Gordon would go from starter to bench player. And none of them ever got to play with a consistent lineup b/c Skiles was always freaking changing the lineup. I remember the year with Songaila/Piatkowski. That was the dogshit year where Skiles would throw in the worst lineups ever.

They need a real coach and I can see this team growing it's players and soaring to new heights.

[Chicago Bulls Fr...]

No. No he will not.

I keep hearing this, but no one elaborates.

Put it this way.. You see Derrick Rose coming at you full boar, he drives past the first guy and the second guy in the paint must step up to stop him from getting all the way to the basket; that leaves room for Tyrus to finish off an easy basket because he's not guarded. Don't get me wrong, this will not happen all the time but this is how Tyrus' point production could go up with a guy like Rose, where all the attention goes to him and they forget or are forced to step up and help which allows one of the bigs to score easy buckets down low. Kobe Bryant is a perfect example of this. Gasol gets atleast 2 baskets a game because of Kobe's driving ability and vision while he's in the air. I'm not going to write off Tyrus until I see that he is totally not willing to get better and prove himself not only to Bulls fans, but to the NBA. Supposedly he's working out this summer, this is Tyrus' defining year IMO as a Bull.

[eddog2]

Put it this way.. You see Derrick Rose coming at you full boar, he drives past the first guy and the second guy in the paint must step up to stop him from getting all the way to the basket; that leaves room for Tyrus to finish off an easy basket because he's not guarded. Don't get me wrong, this will not happen all the time but this is how Tyrus' point production could go up with a guy like Rose, where all the attention goes to him and they forget or are forced to step up and help which allows one of the bigs to score easy buckets down low. Kobe Bryant is a perfect example of this. Gasol gets atleast 2 baskets a game because of Kobe's driving ability and vision while he's in the air. I'm not going to write off Tyrus until I see that he is totally not willing to get better and prove himself not only to Bulls fans, but to the NBA. Supposedly he's working out this summer, this is Tyrus' defining year IMO as a Bull.

Tyrus got better this year even if he stats didn't show it. His FG% went down but it was b/c he was taking more jump shots. His jumper is improved and will only get better with work. The area that impressed me the most about his game was him FT% improvement. Tyrus looked very solid from the line this year. He improved his FT% from 60.6% to 74.1%. That's a huge improvement. If he can keep it at that percent or improve it further that will only help his overall game. You don't improve your FT% that much if you are not working on your jump shot or FT shot. He's working out this summer and hopefully with the right coach and with Rose his abilities will be maximized.

[ZoomSlowik]

One or two more uncontested shots a game isn't going to take Tyrus from inconsistent, marginally useful player to star, he's actually going to have to figure out how to finish with contact/traffic and/or hit more than 35.5% of his jumpers (a lot more if it's "or"). I wouldn't call that "consistent", though it isn't as bad as his interior finishing percentage (48.7%, a depressingly low percentage given his length and leaping ability and one of the worst totals in the league).

And seriously, LaMarcus Aldridge and Pau Gasol comparisons (okay, not comparisons, but mentions in regards to Thomas like it's relevant)? Yeah, Aldridge shoots a lot of jumpers, so do Garnett and Bosh, that doesn't mean they're not good options in the frontcourt that can hurt you inside. Heck, even Amare Stoudemire takes 50% of his attempts on 2-point jumpers and Tim Duncan is at 55% from there. The point is that he hits 61.4% of his interior shots and 41.7% on the jumpers in only his second season, giving him a diverse offensive game that we could really use up front. He's considerably more skilled than Tyrus, if Thomas had half as much offensive ability we'd be set. I won't even bother with the Gasol stats, let's just say he doesn't need a whole lot of help to score. He's not forcing things as much with Kobe to take over. While that helps, the guy still has to improve quite a bit on his own.

I've tried to stay out of more of these things of late, but geez. I haven't totally written Tyrus off yet, but I'm also not going to make massive leaps of faith with him either, he still needs to work on his game quite a bit.

[Chicago Bulls Fr...]

One or two more uncontested shots a game isn't going to take Tyrus from inconsistent, marginally useful player to star, he's actually going to have to figure out how to finish with contact/traffic and/or hit more than 35.5% of his jumpers (a lot more if it's "or"). I wouldn't call that "consistent", though it isn't as bad as his interior finishing percentage (48.7%, a depressingly low percentage given his length and leaping ability and one of the worst totals in the league).

And seriously, LaMarcus Aldridge and Pau Gasol comparisons (okay, not comparisons, but mentions in regards to Thomas like it's relevant)? Yeah, Aldridge shoots a lot of jumpers, so do Garnett and Bosh, that doesn't mean they're not good options in the frontcourt that can hurt you inside. The point is that he hits 61.4% of his interior shots and 41.7% on the jumpers in only his second season, giving him a diverse offensive game that we could really use up front. He's considerably more skilled than Tyrus, if Thomas had half as much offensive ability we'd be set. I won't even bother with the Gasol stats, let's just say he doesn't need a whole lot of help to score. He's not forcing things as much with Kobe to take over. While that helps, the guy still has to improve quite a bit on his own.

I've tried to stay out of more of these things of late, but geez. I haven't totally written Tyrus off yet, but I'm also not going to make massive leaps of faith with him either, he still needs to work on his game quite a bit.

wtf? I was just giving out an example of what kind of baskets Tyrus could get from a guard that penetrates, I could have said Jason Maxiel or Kenyon Martin if I wanted to it doesn't matter.. and notice how I said "this won't happen all the time"...

[Cowch]

If Tyrus doesn't make a step up this offseason, I hope he isn't expecting minutes. Assuming the Bulls will go with Rose, I would rather have Tyrus start just because he is fast. I don't want some guy chugging along just to keep up with Rose. Anyway, Tyrus, for now, is not the same player as Tyson is. He definitely still has lots to prove. Give it another season or so before you make or break the guy. I would HATE if the Bulls traded him solely because I can imagine that he would develop on another team just like we see happen all the time.

[SoxFan1]

If Tyrus doesn't make a step up this offseason, I hope he isn't expecting minutes. Assuming the Bulls will go with Rose, I would rather have Tyrus start just because he is fast. I don't want some guy chugging along just to keep up with Rose. Anyway, Tyrus, for now, is not the same player as Tyson is. He definitely still has lots to prove. Give it another season or so before you make or break the guy. I would HATE if the Bulls traded him solely because I can imagine that he would develop on another team just like we see happen all the time.

If he is to be part of a package thats gets us an Elton Brand, Michael Redd, Carmelo Anthony, or Allen Iverson and Paxson nixes it to hold on to Tyrus and his "potential", I will be uber pissed.

[heirdog]

No. No he will not.

I keep hearing this, but no one elaborates.

See Rose drive. See Tyrus jump. See Tyrus dunk. Any questions?

[Cowch]

If he is to be part of a package thats gets us an Elton Brand, Michael Redd, Carmelo Anthony, or Allen Iverson and Paxson nixes it to hold on to Tyrus and his "potential", I will be uber pissed.

That would also piss me off. It seems we have a lose-lose situation.

[Steve9347]

If he is to be part of a package thats gets us an Elton Brand, Michael Redd, Carmelo Anthony, or Allen Iverson and Paxson nixes it to hold on to Tyrus and his "potential", I will be uber pissed.

This team does not want AI.

Melo is too pricey.

Let's talk about Brand, since chances are Skiles doesn't want any Bulls for Redd.

[Balta1701-B]

This team does not want AI.

Melo is too pricey.

Let's talk about Brand, since chances are Skiles doesn't want any Bulls for Redd.

I could certainly see Skiles being interested in Hinrich.

Melo is only too pricey if the Nuggets aren't serious about trying to fix their cap situation.

My problem with Brand, Redd, etc., is that even with a guy like Chris Paul, it took him 2-3 years from the moment he entered the league to develop in to a star. Even if you put absolutely stellar talent around Rose right now, he's just not going to be ready to lead us on a real run for a couple years. By then, picking up guys like Redd and Brand means we'll have shelled out a lot of money, made sure we didn't build up salary cap space, and gotten ourselves locked down with guys on the wrong side of 30 for the time Rose really does start taking off.