Sam Smith still hates Tyrus Thomas, and he actually has sources this time Options

[TeaLeafReaderII]

Rare Bulls risk isn't delivering
Skiles tries everything to reach Thomas


November 21, 2007


DENVER -- It didn't appear to be out of anger, deep and bubbling over after simmering for weeks, the result of the early-season frustration because of the Bulls slow start.

For Bulls coach Scott Skiles on Tuesday it appeared more a cumulative frustration as he seemingly is unable to dislodge the tantalizing talent of Tyrus Thomas at a time the Bulls remain in desperate need.


There has been so much hope for Thomas as a rare Bulls experiment, not exactly the usual, blue-collar solid guy model of the team, but an exceptional athlete whose ceiling seemed even above his uncanny leaping ability.

But you begin to wonder, though he is in just his second season, whether Thomas is going to be more promise than performance, a good idea that failed to develop.

That possibility ostensibly is what Skiles was contemplating in what was almost a plea before Tuesday night's loss to see more commitment and purpose from Thomas.

"I'm always in a difficult spot with a player like that," Skiles offered calmly and seemingly without rancor.

He seemed to understand where he was going with Thomas, a fan favorite because of his spectacular dunking and occasional brilliance in games. He has shown his promise, such as when he scored 21 points with 12 rebounds in a victory over the 76ers and had 19 points with 14 rebounds in another over the Pistons.

The excellence seems right there, but no one can quite grab it. It's like a fog, which Skiles seemed to suggest often envelops Thomas.

"I understand the fans see one side of it," Skiles said "We see the other. We know what's supposed to be done out there. We ask him to sprint the floor. To my knowledge in his career he hasn't done it one time.

"Not one time."

Still, Skiles gave Thomas an early run against the Nuggets. It perhaps was the team's worst individual display of the season. Thomas came in for Adrian Griffin with 7 minutes, 40 seconds left in the first quarter and the Bulls down six.

The first time Thomas touched the ball, he committed a turnover, stripped as he tried to drive. On the next possession, he committed an offensive foul. Then he fouled Carmelo Anthony on a drive. All this within 42 seconds before he was yanked in favor of rookie Joakim Noah with the Bulls down 18-8.

Skiles seemed determined to get something out of Thomas, bringing him back early in the second quarter as the Bulls opened with a 7-0 run before the Nuggets scored 13 straight.

"Watch when he gets in there," Skiles said Tuesday morning. "Is he jogging or is he sprinting the floor? So I have to look out not only for … 'Can somebody help me win a game tonight?' but balance that against trying to get him to be a high-level player.

"He's not going to be if he doesn't do that one thing. That's about all he has to do, change ends like a train. We have not been able to get him to do that.

"I'm not not playing him to penalize him for that. I went in a different direction. We played great in the Clippers' game. I didn't see any reason to disrupt the lineup. The Lakers game we were right there when they kind of blew the doors open.

Skiles had more to say.

"And that's just one thing," he said. "He doesn't have the habit of doing it, of being on all the time and into the game. He's much better than he was.

"If verbally telling someone and not getting the result … you have to try another avenue to get to them. That's just common sense. He's leaving an awful lot [of scoring] on the table by not doing that. We need that scoring. With our guys, the way they pass the ball ahead, if we take an early jump shot and you just run down the middle, there are tip-ins and rebounds, no one is boxing you out. He knows it. We show him over and over. It's something he has to do."

Asked about Skiles' comments, Thomas had little to say:

"He's the man who makes the call," Thomas said quietly. "I guess you have to adjust. It's as simple as that. There it is."

Where, exactly, is much more uncertain.

Thomas is going to continue to play. He has to because his trade value given the current situation is probably nil. The Bulls spent a No. 2 overall draft pick on him. He is still very young, having played just one season in college.

Did the Bulls give up on Tyson Chandler too soon?

Sometimes it takes awhile for a player to develop. Sometimes it doesn't happen. It's much more difficult to make an assessment of young players. Ask the Pistons about Darko Milicic. The Bulls want Thomas to run. Whether that's toward the exit will be the question.

[eddog2]

Thankfully it's still early in the season.

The problem is...the season does have an end, and every loss brings us closer to that end.

I still have difficulty figuring out how this team has taken such a big step backwards from last year.

Well I hate to be negative but maybe it's b/c the East is 10 times better this year and b/c the Bulls overachieved the last couple of seasons. Ben Wallace is a year older, Deng & Gordon are very upset they didn't get contract extensions, & Kirk is Kirk. Just an average player that hasn't even been average thus far.

Not to mention we lost a solid veteran in PJ who really did a good job holding the team together. But when you are the coach and you are playing Adrian Griffin there are some issues. Skiles is arrogant and thinks that his changes to the lineup (no matter how stupid) will produce wins. It just doesn't happen like that.

Could the Bulls turn it around? Sure. But will they win a title this year? Highly unlikely.

In the east the Wizards (even without Arenas), the Celtics, the Bucks (if they stay healthy), and the Magic are all significantly better than last year.

And that doesn't take into account the Pistons who when healthy will also be better. So unless New Jersey, Cleveland, or Toronto start tanking I wouldn't be surprised if the Bulls missed the playoffs again. I also wouldn't be surprised if the Bulls got hot in the 2nd half and made the playoffs. But there comes a point when making the playoffs vs contending for a title has to become the goal.

If we don't have the money to sign a big time free agent then we have to do it in the draft, by trade, or pray our players develop into stars. I'm thinking the first 2 options are more realistic. I don't think we are going to be winning any titles by keeping the players we have. Especially with east getting stronger. In a few years Cleveland will be able to clear some cap room and get Lebron the stud 2nd man he needs and Dwight Howard will be 2nd best player in the game. If that happens the Bulls better have some stars or it won't even matter.

This is also a good time to mention to all you haters that Rashard Lewis is having a better year than Deng like I said he would. He doesn't even have to shoot as much. He's just a deadly 3 point shooter. His rebounds are down (b/c he plays with the beast) but he is the better player.

We were hoping for a multiple all-star representation and are going to end up with 0 again. That's rediculous and that's when you know something has to change.

[Chicago Bulls Fr...]

a little more than 1/8th of the season is over with and we have 10 losses...

50 wins this season was generally where all of us saw this team coming into this year and to make the playoffs with a good seed, so we need to go 48-22 for the rest of the season to get there.

That's a 68% winning percentage which going to be tough to do in the improved east and seeing how we have already bottomed out as one of the worst teams in the league (record wise). This team needs to win and WIN NOW, if they are thinking about the playoffs.

Drastic changes need to be made that's for sure.

[eddog2]

a little more than 1/8th of the season is over with and we have 10 losses...

50 wins this season was generally where all of us saw this team coming into this year and to make the playoffs with a good seed, so we need to go 48-22 for the rest of the season to get there.

That's a 68% winning percentage which going to be tough to do in the improved east and seeing how we have already bottomed out as one of the worst teams in the league (record wise). This team needs to win and WIN NOW, if they are thinking about the playoffs.

Drastic changes need to be made that's for sure.

I love that picture. That's exactly what Skiles thinks. They just need to make their shots. Has nothing to do with his coaching.

[ZoomSlowik]

This is also a good time to mention to all you haters that Rashard Lewis is having a better year than Deng like I said he would. He doesn't even have to shoot as much. He's just a deadly 3 point shooter. His rebounds are down (b/c he plays with the beast) but he is the better player.

We were hoping for a multiple all-star representation and are going to end up with 0 again. That's rediculous and that's when you know something has to change.

Just be glad you didn't take that sig bet.

He's a very good shooter, but he's not playing THAT much better than Deng did last year (though he's obviously off to a mediocre start), and no way he's averaging 25 like you predicted.

[Chicago Bulls Fr...]

Has it been since Jordan was here the last time this team has had an Allstar?

[eddog2]

Just be glad you didn't take that sig bet.

He's a very good shooter, but he's not playing THAT much better than Deng did last year (though he's obviously off to a mediocre start), and no way he's averaging 25 like you predicted.

The season is still young. Lewis will have some huge games this year. He may not get to 25 ppg but Orlando doesn't need him to. Do you see how much better Turk & Bogans are playing since Lewis joined the team. Anyway, I still think that Lewis is the better player. I love Deng but I still feel that way. If Lewis didn't play with Dwight he'd definately have to score more and he'd be shooting a lot more.

One thing I have noticed that Lewis isn't that strong at is driving on his left side (I think it's his left). He's not a great dribbler with one of his hands and sometimes he bobbles the ball or turns it over by trying to drive. But his post up game is definately better than Deng's. But Deng is very young and still has a few years to pass where Lewis is at this point. Will it happen? Hopefully it will if he is still a Bull.

[eddog2]

Has it been since Jordan was here the last time this team has had an Allstar?

I think so. Brand would have been but we traded him. His first year in LA he was an all-star. Jalen Rose & Toni Kukoc were probably the closest other players to make an all-star team.

The list of former Bulls players that either have been or likely have a chance to someday make an all-star team
Ron Artest
Brad Miller
Elton Brand
Tyson Chandler
Eddy Curry

[Steve9347]

The season is still young. Lewis will have some huge games this year. He may not get to 25 ppg but Orlando doesn't need him to.

After the Lewis acquisition in TalkBulls fantasy last night, Hitched Chocolate GM Steve Harnden echoed Edwin's comments.

"He's sick as spiff, can't believe all it took was Carmelo Anthony and D-Wade to get that huge upgrade at center and a stud like Lewis."

Edwin now must deal with Dwight Howard's lousy free throw percentage and the fact that he is no longer a guaranteed winner in 3 pointers, an advantage he had taken to the bank in the first three weeks of fantasy basketball.

"I like men," Edwin chimed in. "My main goal with that deal was to increase the fruitiness of my franchise, and I believe I've done so ten-fold."

[eddog2]

After the Lewis acquisition in TalkBulls fantasy last night, Hitched Chocolate GM Steve Harnden echoed Edwin Rivera's comments.

"He's sick as spiff, can't believe all it took was Carmelo Anthony and D-Wade to get that huge upgrade at center and a stud like Lewis."

Rivera now must deal with Dwight Howard's lousy free throw percentage and the fact that he is no longer a guaranteed winner in 3 pointers, an advantage he had taken to the bank in the first three weeks of fantasy basketball.

"I like men," Rivera chimed in. "My main goal with that deal was to increase the fruitiness of my franchise, and I believe I've done so ten-fold."

Steve is ****. "I like big white stiffs he spewed last night as Kaman dribbled between his legs and past Yao for the dunk on his way to 20 points 13 boards and 7 turnovers. (too bad those still counted against me)" "I'll trade you Josh Howard for Melo he said just minutes after the deal b/c he couldn't stand to lose his baby blue mistress." Edwin will hear that trade offered for a few weeks and after Melo scores 30+ points 5 games in a row, Steve will be asking to trade back for his girlfriend that he can't live without. It will take time but he will eventually offer Rashard Lewis to get him back. Just give it time.

Edwin received D-Wade (for the 2nd time) a player who when healthy gives you the assists of a good PG, steals the ball like Puerto Rican's steal tv's (I can say that b/c I steal TV's. JK), & scores points like a God. Come the end of the season, D-Wade will be rated at least 20 spots higher than the big white mush that I took in the 8th round. Once again Edwin's fantasy dominance shines through as he took a center with the 86th pick that is a top 4 center in the league. Then flipped that player and Rashard into 2 prolific scorers while obtaining Dwight Howard (his second pick in the draft and a mighty fine one at that) back on his team just days before. So he might lose FT%, & TO's for the rest of the season. It will still be hard for any team to beat me in 3 of the other 7 categories meaning at worst I'll win every week at least 5-4 if my players stay healthy. (Rebounds, Blocks, Steals, Points, FG% will be my new strongest categories and if Navarro continues to play and Caron keeps hitting 3's I'm still the best long shooter in the league outside of Sup Jordan).

Rashard will be greatly missed. But with Dwight, his rebound #'s are down and not likely to equal that of last year. He's a solid player and hits the 3 with little effot. I have faith that Rashard will be on my team again before the season is over.