Isiah after Artest... Options

[madisonsmadhouse]

I guess Thomas is out to prove that you can never have enough criminals out on the floor...

http://fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/11631

Isiah Thomas yesterday admitted he and Ron Artest were often at odds during their three years together in Indiana, but noted the controversial small forward played his best ball under him. While the Knicks are trying to land Artest in a trade, they are unwilling to part with their two top prospects, David Lee and Renaldo Balkman.

[Chisoxfn]

This would be a hillarious move. On paper the Knicks would be a very good team, but they will have some kind of crazy lockeroom.

I would think that it would not take much talent to get Artest (think addition by subtraction).

[madisonsmadhouse]

This would be a hillarious move. On paper the Knicks would be a very good team, but they will have some kind of crazy lockeroom.

I would think that it would not take much talent to get Artest (think addition by subtraction).

I think it would look similar to the Randolph package, there they would send whatever just to match up salaries. The talent wouldn't be important.

[dasox24]

haha, I'd be all for an Artest to NY trade. Like Jason said, they'd look good on paper, but I just don't think that adding Artest would be good for that team.

[rangercal]

Knicks would be a legit east contender if they land artest cheap

[Sanitarium]

All I can do is laugh when I hear something about Artest. This is no exception.

[ZoomSlowik]

Knicks would be a legit east contender if they land artest cheap

On paper you would think so, but that's just not the case. They have too many shoot-first-pass-rarely players and are a bad defensive team that just got even worse, and also has a tendency to turn the ball over at a high rate. Curry and Randolph has got to be the worst defensive post combo in the league, probably by a wide margin. Their rebounding will also suffer a bit with Randolph eating up a lot of David Lee's minutes. Artest would be the ONE good defender they have, with Lee as borderline.

Plus you gotta remember the stats are going to drop with guys splitting time/opportunities more. No way in hell Randolph gets 18.8 shots a game with their guard combo and Curry taking a lot of post opportunities, even the 16 he got the few years before that are a stretch (Crawford led the Knicks last year at 15 even). You'd have a lineup with 5 guys that think they're #1 options, which really hurts their effectiveness and drops their production.

What they need is 2 or 3 more guys like David Lee that'll do the dirty work and not force their shot attempts, not another shot-happy wing player (even if he does play very good D).

[dasox24]

On paper you would think so, but that's just not the case. They have too many shoot-first-pass-rarely players and are a bad defensive team that just got even worse, and also has a tendency to turn the ball over at a high rate. Curry and Randolph has got to be the worst defensive post combo in the league, probably by a wide margin. Their rebounding will also suffer a bit with Randolph eating up a lot of David Lee's minutes. Artest would be the ONE good defender they have, with Lee as borderline.

Plus you gotta remember the stats are going to drop with guys splitting time/opportunities more. No way in hell Randolph gets 18.8 shots a game with their guard combo and Curry taking a lot of post opportunities, even the 16 he got the few years before that are a stretch (Crawford led the Knicks last year at 15 even). You'd have a lineup with 5 guys that think they're #1 options, which really hurts their effectiveness and drops their production.

What they need is 2 or 3 more guys like David Lee that'll do the dirty work and not force their shot attempts, not another shot-happy wing player (even if he does play very good D).

That's exactly why I'd be in favor of a deal that sent Artest to the Knicks. They'll continue to be dysfunctional until, as you said Zoom, they get some role players that'll play D and do the dirty work. Having 5 guys who think they're #1 doesn't work. We all saw how the Lakers did that one year with Shaq, Kobe, Malone, and Payton in the lineup. Sure, they made the playoffs, but they didn't win a Championship, which is what really matters. Plus, the Knicks lineup would be nowhere near as talented as that Lakers one, so I don't see how that team would work...

[rangercal]

On paper you would think so, but that's just not the case. They have too many shoot-first-pass-rarely players and are a bad defensive team that just got even worse, and also has a tendency to turn the ball over at a high rate. Curry and Randolph has got to be the worst defensive post combo in the league, probably by a wide margin. Their rebounding will also suffer a bit with Randolph eating up a lot of David Lee's minutes. Artest would be the ONE good defender they have, with Lee as borderline.

Plus you gotta remember the stats are going to drop with guys splitting time/opportunities more. No way in hell Randolph gets 18.8 shots a game with their guard combo and Curry taking a lot of post opportunities, even the 16 he got the few years before that are a stretch (Crawford led the Knicks last year at 15 even). You'd have a lineup with 5 guys that think they're #1 options, which really hurts their effectiveness and drops their production.

What they need is 2 or 3 more guys like David Lee that'll do the dirty work and not force their shot attempts, not another shot-happy wing player (even if he does play very good D).

I disagree. That's why they play the games.

[ZoomSlowik]

I disagree. That's why they play the games.

Real insightful response...

Seriously, what screams contender on that team? The terrible D? The high turnover rate? The lack of a true PG? The abundance of ballhogs? The awful team chemistry? The lack of any real depth (since it'd probably cost something like Richardson and Robinson)?

About the only thing they can do fairly well is score, and that's not enough to cut it, especially when the team makeup is going to prevent anyone from being a consistent go-to scorer. There are numerous other teams that can score too, and most of them have better chemistry and/or actually play defense. Maybe if they could somehow move Marbury for a real PG and get another big that would play defense that could work, but that's not too likely...

[madisonsmadhouse]

Real insightful response...

Seriously, what screams contender on that team? The terrible D? The high turnover rate? The lack of a true PG? The abundance of ballhogs? The awful team chemistry? The lack of any real depth (since it'd probably cost something like Richardson and Robinson)?

About the only thing they can do fairly well is score, and that's not enough to cut it, especially when the team makeup is going to prevent anyone from being a consistent go-to scorer. There numerous other teams that can score too, and most of them have better chemistry and/or actually play defense. Maybe if they could somehow move Marbury for a real PG and get another big that would play defense that could work, but that's not too likely...

I agree with you Zoom. What player on that team is going to suck it up and do the dirty work? Artest might help at times, but then there are the others where he will be pissed off and pouting because Marbury, Curry, and Randolph are hogging the ball. Its a disaster waiting to happen. No one is going to be willing to play a role, other than selfish bastard.

[rangercal]

Real insightful response...

Seriously, what screams contender on that team? The terrible D? The high turnover rate? The lack of a true PG? The abundance of ballhogs? The awful team chemistry? The lack of any real depth (since it'd probably cost something like Richardson and Robinson)?

About the only thing they can do fairly well is score, and that's not enough to cut it, especially when the team makeup is going to prevent anyone from being a consistent go-to scorer. There are numerous other teams that can score too, and most of them have better chemistry and/or actually play defense. Maybe if they could somehow move Marbury for a real PG and get another big that would play defense that could work, but that's not too likely...

Sorry about the short response. I really don't feel like defending a team I hate. If they get artest at a low price, then I think they have something there. That added D is the spark the Knicks may need. If everyone had a specific role on that team and did not need 5 basketballs, then yes, They could be a legit contender in the weak east. The only thing I would question is work ethic.

This would be a talented roster
Curry
Randolph
Artest
Lee
Balkman
Crawford
Marbury
Richardson
Robinson

I don't want to speculate who the Knicks would have to give up to obtain artest, My debate is based on getting him cheap.