Tonight was the night Options

[TTRUWITHME]

welcome to the new era of chicago bulls basketball. Noah is gonna lead this team for years to come along with kirk. i honestly do not agree with many trade rumors out there because none of the people suggested would help with what the bulls had to give up. tonight maybe showed what the bulls could be minus ben gordon, luol and ben wallace from a trade. the difference would be the stud player we got in return woulda been out there playing instead of griffin. it also made me realize that this team cannot trade noah because he is turning into the player people keep saying the bulls need. not sure if anyone agrees, but tonight was the turning point, this team will come out with energy for the next few weeks and i think gett lou and ben back will only help.

[Steve9347]

Noah is playing well, but he's not a pure low post scorer. He can be a Tyson Chandler in the ways of offensive production and rebound output, but I doubt he'll ever be the defensive force.

Last night was nice, but that's not going to be the Kirk you see on a regular basis... Deng would have been the guy in Griffin's place and I doubt you'd get anyone better than him in a trade. However, I'm sure if Pax could get fair value (in his mind) for Gordon he'd trade him now and he'd probably give Ben Wallace away.

[ZoomSlowik]

Noah is playing well, but he's not a pure low post scorer. He can be a Tyson Chandler in the ways of offensive production and rebound output, but I doubt he'll ever be the defensive force.

Last night was nice, but that's not going to be the Kirk you see on a regular basis... Deng would have been the guy in Griffin's place and I doubt you'd get anyone better than him in a trade. However, I'm sure if Pax could get fair value (in his mind) for Gordon he'd trade him now and he'd probably give Ben Wallace away.

Agree with that entirely, a Chandler-type player is Noah's likely ceiling and the most likely outcome is a slightly better Anderson Varejao. He's going to have a hard time adding bulk with his frame, his jumper is brutal, and he hasn't really shown much as a shot-blocker on the NBA level yet (yeah, I know, double his minutes and he's averaging 1.16 blocks. Well, he actually averaged more when he WASN'T playing as much). Sure, he's a definite asset, but not the kind of guy that's going to turn into a superstar. I'd have no real issue with him leaving if it brings back a star-caliber player, though barring that yeah, they need to keep him. Let's keep in prospective though, he's averaging about 6 points and 7 rebounds on the month and hasn't exactly been as good as he was last night in every game.

And yeah, there's no way Kirk is going to become a big time scorer on a regular basis. We saw about the most he can do offensively the last few years. Indiana is a horrendous defensive team, especially without Jermaine O'Neal. However, that does show that he hasn't totally forgotten how to play, and that he could be dangerous again if he doesn't have to force as many difficult shots, much like if we could acquire a good big man.

I'd be shocked if Pax wasn't trying to move Wallace for an expiring contract right now. I'm sure he is trying to move Gordon as well to fill some holes, but unless they get a guard back in any deal that'd put a serious strain on the backcourt right now, as you probably can't count on Kirk and Thabo to carry you with Duhon off the bench (and he's hurt right now).

[Steve9347]

you basically stated everything i did, without really adding anything, in about three times the space.

That's ZOOMTASTIC!

[ZoomSlowik]

you basically stated everything i did, without really adding anything, in about three times the space.

That's ZOOMTASTIC!

I try.

[cars]

He can be a Tyson Chandler in the ways of offensive production and rebound output, but I doubt he'll ever be the defensive force.

I'd like to argue that point with you. Chandler is not a defensive force. In his time with the Bulls his foul trouble was caused by his poor defensive recognition and his slow rotations. And as I type this, he's got a 1.1 block per game average while he plays 34 minutes a game.

To compare, Noah at the very least is much better at filling passing lanes and stealing passes. Playing 14 minutes a game on average, Noah averages .8 steals a game. And .6 blocks. Simply doubling his time makes him a 1.6 steal and 1.2 block per game player, which is above the performance we see from Tyson. And his rebounding is on it's way up as we saw.

We are right in assuming he'll never have the post game, but neither will Tyson. As long as he starts hitting his outside jumpers and grabbing boards and attacking the rim...he's everything we've wanted Tyson to be with a bit more potential defensively.

[ZoomSlowik]

Except that the doubled minutes=doubled production theory doesn't work. Noah is stealing the ball at a good rate regardless of minutes, but he actually averaged MORE blocks when he was playing about 12 minutes a game in November and December than he has in January when he's averaging almost 19 minutes a game (about .65 to .40), and in games where he's played 20 minutes (there are 6 of them) he's averaging .666 blocks. There's no real trend with that stat for him, so you can't assume that he's going to get over a block a game with more minutes. Shot blocking/altering ability is generally considered to be one of the main assets of being a defensive stopper inside, so that's a fairly major thing to consider (though obviously not the be-all-and-end-all, you can still be a solid on the ball defender and rebounder in the Udonis Haslem vein, it just hurts your overall impact a bit). Joakim fouls at a pretty high rate himself as well, he's averaging almost 2 a game in those 14 MPG, though in this recent stretch he's been better.

This is also Chandler's worst season in the blocks department he's had in his career thus far statistically after posting 1.8 BPG last year, so it's not really accurate to say that Chandler "only" gives you 1.1 blocks per game. Noah also hasn't shown to be anywhere near as dominant on the boards yet, at least not consistently (yes, playing time is an issue, we'll have to see how that turns out in time). So far in New Orleans Chandler is playing at a higher level than he did with the Bulls, his foul rate has gone down while basically every other stat has gone up.

I hate to be the buzz-killer here, but I try to be realistic and honest with my asessments and not crown a guy as the next Tyson Chandler/Ben Wallace because he's a productive energy guy in the relatively few minutes he gets. There's quite a difference between filling that Anderson Varejao role and being a dominant force for well over 30 minutes a game with consistency. He can still be quite valuable in that role, though you'd still probably want to pair him with a more offensive minded post player that can produce easy baskets and draw fouls inside. Noah is more advanced than Tyson was coming into the league in terms of basketball IQ and passing ability, but then again that's not really a fair comparison since Tyson was 18 and Joakim is about to turn 23.

[Chicago Bulls Fr...]

Noah can be twice the defensive player Chandler is, but will never be as athletic which doesn't really matter when you consider how he rebounds and defends..

[hinrich fan]

Three words Kirk.... "KEEP IT UP!" I knew ya had it in ya!

[eddog2]

If the new era of Bulls basketball lies solely in the hands of Noah and Kirk I might puke and then that new era will start with one less Bulls fan.

I like Noah a lot and I really enjoy the way he's been playing lately. He was the player I wanted the Bulls to pick after Yi, Horford, & Conley were off the board. I told everyone then who was in love with Hawes that he sucked and he's proving me right this year. Aaron Gray in about the same number of minutes is averaging about twice the production as Hawes.

Anyway, we all know what Kirk is and I've said what I think he is for years. He's a good player but not a star and one game isn't going to change my opinion on that and I don't know why people don't realize the same thing.

As for trading Gordon & Deng I'm all for it if it brings back a star. If it brings back Gasol count me out. We should have traded those two for Kobe (even though I hate Kobe) when we had the chance.

[Balta1701-B]

As for trading Gordon & Deng I'm all for it if it brings back a star. If it brings back Gasol count me out. We should have traded those two for Kobe (even though I hate Kobe) when we had the chance.

We never did.

[Chicago Bulls Fr...]

Noah is going to be one of those leaders on a team where he just goes and does his business every night but doesn't wow you. He'll put up 8 and 10 but give you tremendous defense and block about a shot a game. He is a valuable piece on a championship team if he develops the way he should.

Same can be said for Thabo as well. If he just develops into a not good but great defensive player, he can turn the tides of a game pretty quickly along with Noah. The one thing we don't have is a superstar and until we get one, were not winning anything.

[TTRUWITHME]

just watch the game tonight, you will see a new energized bulls core out there. this team is ready to go, and i will go out on a limb and say thabo will give the bulls 20 pts, 10 rebs tonight with at least 3 steals. mark it down. i really think i saw something the other night that shows this team is not the same one we have watched for the last few months.

[Steve9347]

just watch the game tonight, you will see a new energized bulls core out there. this team is ready to go, and i will go out on a limb and say thabo will give the bulls 20 pts, 10 rebs tonight with at least 3 steals. mark it down. i really think i saw something the other night that shows this team is not the same one we have watched for the last few months.

I think they are going to lose.

[bschmaranz]

Never seen anyone so excited over beating a pretty bad team. I was happy with the result but the Pacers are garbage, especially without Tinsley and Jermaine O'Neal.

Let the record show Hinrich was guarded for most of the night by Travis Diener.