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TalkBulls Forums _ Bulls Talk _ Gordon and Deng to Join Hinrich and Noc

Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 19 2006, 12:30 AM

We all know about Hinrich playing for the US national squad and Noc plays for Argentina's but it appears that Great Britain (England) is making an effort to put Gordon and Deng on there squad. It would be cool to have multiple guys playing in the international spotlight.

Obviously I'd hate to see any of our guys get hurt, but I think that type of play would help our young players continue to mature. I also think playing in that type of spotlight will take the pressure off of bigger games (since playing on the national stage is a big deal) and make them more prepared for the playoffs.

QUOTE
Great Britain has a new American coach, Chris Finch, who was in Vegas scouting some of his players (such as Portland draftee Joel Freeland and free-agent hopeful Pops Mensah-Bonsu) while also continuing his attempts to secure Chicago's Luol Deng and Ben Gordon as national team teammates.

Deng and Gordon both have London backgrounds and have been invited to join the newly formed G.B. squad as early as this fall as the Brits attempt to climb sufficiently high on the world ladder to claim the automatic bid that awaits them for the 2012 Summer Olympics. The host nation is guaranteed a spot in the 2012 field, but the British Olympic Association and the sport's world governing body (FIBA) will allow Finch's team to use that spot only if the team proves itself to be competitive, starting with a legitimate run at qualifying for the 2009 European Championships.

Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 19 2006, 12:43 AM

International sports are getting ridiculous.

Deng should play for Sudan. Gordon should play for the US.

The World Cup was bad too. Italy had an Argentinian (Camoranesi). Mexico has a Brazilian (Zinho). Sweden had a Bosnian (Ibrahimovic).

Posted by: SleepyWhiteSox Jul 19 2006, 01:03 AM

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 19 2006, 01:36 AM) *
The World Cup was bad too. Italy had an Argentinian (Camoranesi). Mexico has a Brazilian (Zinho). Sweden had a Bosnian (Ibrahimovic).


It was worse than that...

But what criteria would you use? Ben was born in britain...

Posted by: dasox24 Jul 19 2006, 01:04 AM

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 19 2006, 01:36 AM) *
International sports are getting ridiculous.

Deng should play for Sudan. Gordon should play for the US.

The World Cup was bad too. Italy had an Argentinian (Camoranesi). Mexico has a Brazilian (Zinho). Sweden had a Bosnian (Ibrahimovic).

Yeah, I definitley have to agree with you. Actually, some of my buddies and I were talking about this very thing while playing FIFA tonight. I don't get how some of these players can choose which country they want to play for. It should be pretty simple/set in stone. The only way a person should be able to get away with having a choice is if they're dual citizens (I'm pretty sure Gordon is not, and I doubt Deng is. Not sure about the soccer players) and actually split time b/t the countries. Otherwise, it should probably be the country the player has lived longer in as long as they are a citizen of that country as well.

Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 19 2006, 01:30 AM

Both guys spent some time in England so I don't see where they are drawing straws. Its not like they spent a day in the country.

Honestly I don't have much of a problem with how things work and as long as they pick a country and stick with it I'm perfectly fine with it. Now if Ben went to England and than somehow afterwards joined a US squad a few years down the road, well than that wouldn't exactly be fair.

Posted by: soxfan101 Jul 19 2006, 03:11 AM

Gordon was born in England right? So than whats the problem with that. Also I wouldnt have a problem if he played for America either since he lives here and everything. Its guys that have never been to a country except on vacation and only tied to it through parents that I think is ridiculous. Which correct me if im wrong is what the Nomar situation was in baseball and was why Ozzie made fun of him.

Posted by: Bullies4Life Jul 19 2006, 07:11 AM

If Deng and Gordon do play on the same team... I would root for them biggrin.gif

I wouldnt mind if they went all the way biggrin.gif

How bout you guys? huh.gif

Posted by: Iguana Jul 19 2006, 07:34 AM

I see that Gordon was born in GB but what is Deng's ties? I thought he was from Africa?

Posted by: southsider2k5 Jul 19 2006, 08:27 AM

QUOTE (Iguana @ Jul 19 2006, 08:27 AM) *
I see that Gordon was born in GB but what is Deng's ties? I thought he was from Africa?


His family fled the genocide in Sudan to GB.

Posted by: Iguana Jul 19 2006, 09:01 AM

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 19 2006, 09:20 AM) *
His family fled the genocide in Sudan to GB.


Oh, I see. smile.gif

Posted by: steve9347 Jul 19 2006, 09:17 AM

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 19 2006, 01:36 AM) *
International sports are getting ridiculous.

Deng should play for Sudan. Gordon should play for the US.

The World Cup was bad too. Italy had an Argentinian (Camoranesi). Mexico has a Brazilian (Zinho). Sweden had a Bosnian (Ibrahimovic).


put perfectly.

QUOTE (Bullies4Life @ Jul 19 2006, 08:04 AM) *
If Deng and Gordon do play on the same team... I would root for them biggrin.gif

I wouldnt mind if they went all the way biggrin.gif

How bout you guys? huh.gif


USA! USA! USA!

Posted by: Jake Jul 19 2006, 09:45 AM

So how long did Ben live in Great Britain?

Posted by: southsider2k5 Jul 19 2006, 09:52 AM

QUOTE
Gordon, who has played for the US national team at high-school level, was born in London before his parents separated and his mother took him to New York at the age of one. His father, Howard, still lives in London and, well into his teens, Gordon would visit family in London every summer.


http://sport.guardian.co.uk/london2012/story/0,14213,1641612,00.html

Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 19 2006, 10:53 AM

QUOTE (soxfan101 @ Jul 19 2006, 02:04 AM) *
Gordon was born in England right? So than whats the problem with that. Also I wouldnt have a problem if he played for America either since he lives here and everything. Its guys that have never been to a country except on vacation and only tied to it through parents that I think is ridiculous. Which correct me if im wrong is what the Nomar situation was in baseball and was why Ozzie made fun of him.

You also had Piazza playing for the Italian team. I dont' think Piazza spent any time in Italy but at the same time I think that was more about trying to improve baseball in Italy. Hell maybe it was Greece but I think it was Italy.

Posted by: ZoomSlowik Jul 19 2006, 11:20 AM

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 19 2006, 11:46 AM) *
You also had Piazza playing for the Italian team. I dont' think Piazza spent any time in Italy but at the same time I think that was more about trying to improve baseball in Italy. Hell maybe it was Greece but I think it was Italy.


The Italian baseball team was even worse. Their only requirement was that one of you parents was Italian. I think the Greeks did the same thing.

Posted by: southsider2k5 Jul 19 2006, 11:25 AM

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 19 2006, 12:13 PM) *
The Italian baseball team was even worse. Their only requirement was that one of you parents was Italian. I think the Greeks did the same thing.


Those were actually the WBCs rules, the countries involved just took advantage of them.

Posted by: bulls91 Jul 19 2006, 11:41 AM

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 19 2006, 01:36 AM) *
International sports are getting ridiculous.

Deng should play for Sudan. Gordon should play for the US.

The World Cup was bad too. Italy had an Argentinian (Camoranesi). Mexico has a Brazilian (Zinho). Sweden had a Bosnian (Ibrahimovic).

i agree with all that you said but with gordon, i think taht he should play for england because first of all there is no way that he will be on the U.S team because they have people like wade and kobe.

In england he will be one of the best players so pressure will be on him (and will be more prepared for the playoffs next year) and he will play for from where he was born and brought up at.

Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 19 2006, 12:05 PM

Here's my thing, you play for the country you have ethnic and nationality ties with.

I'll use myself for example, my entire family is Serbian, I am Serbian but I was born here in the US. Would I ever play for the US? fish no. Would I ever join the US Army? fish no.

Posted by: SleepyWhiteSox Jul 19 2006, 12:19 PM

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 19 2006, 12:58 PM) *
Here's my thing, you play for the country you have ethnic and nationality ties with.

I'll use myself for example, my entire family is Serbian, I am Serbian but I was born here in the US. Would I ever play for the US? fish no. Would I ever join the US Army? fish no.


So you are born and raised in the US but would not support your country?? blink.gif

Actually, you don't have to answer. I don't want to make it into a patriotism argument.

Anyways, my way of thinking is that you either choose your country of birth or country of residence for 10+ years. I don't like hearing about athletes being made citizens months before events, much less the silly wbc rules...

Posted by: Iguana Jul 19 2006, 12:46 PM

LOL. does GB even have basketball teams?

Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 19 2006, 01:07 PM

QUOTE (SleepyWhiteSox @ Jul 19 2006, 01:12 PM) *
So you are born and raised in the US but would not support your country?? blink.gif

Actually, you don't have to answer. I don't want to make it into a patriotism argument.

Anyways, my way of thinking is that you either choose your country of birth or country of residence for 10+ years. I don't like hearing about athletes being made citizens months before events, much less the silly wbc rules...

Yes, I was born and raised in the US, but does that make me American?

If my entire family was Mexican and I was born in Japan when they went on vacation, should I support Japan? This whole citizenship thing is BS. I'm not American, I was born in America and I am an American citizen, but I am not American and America is not my country. Not 1 drop of Non-Serbian blood in me.

Posted by: hammerhead johnson Jul 19 2006, 01:23 PM

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 19 2006, 01:00 PM) *
Yes, I was born and raised in the US, but does that make me American?


If you were born and raised in Eastern Europe, then I'd be able to see where you're coming from.

However, America is all that you've ever known, correct?

Yes, that would make you an American, and a full-blown American at that. You wouldn't qualify as the typical United States mutt like Sleepy, but anyway you slice it, you are a product of American culture.

I'm 75% German, but I don't know Germany from a hole in the wall. I have no loyalty to that country whatsoever. Going there to visit relatives or whatever will not change that.

Posted by: Bullies4Life Jul 19 2006, 01:30 PM

QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jul 19 2006, 02:16 PM) *
If you were born and raised in Eastern Europe, then I'd be able to see where you're coming from.

However, America is all that you've ever known, correct?

Yes, that would make you an American, and a full-blown American at that. You wouldn't qualify as the typical United States mutt like Sleepy, but anyway you slice it, you are a product of American culture.

I'm 75% German, but I don't know Germany from a hole in the wall. I have no loyalty to that country whatsoever. Going there to visit relatives or whatever will not change that.


Im Mexican, my parents were born over there.... And so was I. However, i did come to the US when i was about a year old, and ive been living here ever since. Heck, some people dont even think i speak spanish biggrin.gif

I feel both as a Mexican, and American... What do i like more? probably the US... but my point is that everyone is different, and they have different believes. Everyone has their views, and thats why this whole thing about where should players play is complicated as well.

Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 19 2006, 02:01 PM

QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jul 19 2006, 02:16 PM) *
If you were born and raised in Eastern Europe, then I'd be able to see where you're coming from.

However, America is all that you've ever known, correct?

Yes, that would make you an American, and a full-blown American at that. You wouldn't qualify as the typical United States mutt like Sleepy, but anyway you slice it, you are a product of American culture.

I'm 75% German, but I don't know Germany from a hole in the wall. I have no loyalty to that country whatsoever. Going there to visit relatives or whatever will not change that.

Like Bullies4Life said, everyone has a differenct perception on what they are. I do not consider myself American one bit, and to answer you're question, America is NOT all I have ever known. I have gone to Serbia a few times, speak the language fluently, hang out with other Serbians, go to a Serbian Orthodox Church, and follow a strong Serbian/Orthodox tradition.

Posted by: soxfan101 Jul 19 2006, 02:56 PM

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 19 2006, 02:54 PM) *
Like Bullies4Life said, everyone has a differenct perception on what they are. I do not consider myself American one bit, and to answer you're question, America is NOT all I have ever known. I have gone to Serbia a few times, speak the language fluently, hang out with other Serbians, go to a Serbian Orthodox Church, and follow a strong Serbian/Orthodox tradition.


You see your one of the people id find it ridiculous if Serbia was in it that you would play for them. You were born here and have lived here your entire life. Yes your whole family is foreign but your not. Now if you were born here but lived a good chunk of your life in Serbia or was living there currently than Id say it wouldnt make a difference between the 2.


For example my dad is from Pakistan but I have lived and was born here my whole life and if I had to choose I would of course pick an american team. And btw you are american.. doesnt matter if you hate it or not but you were born here and lived here your entire life....

Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 19 2006, 03:59 PM

QUOTE (soxfan101 @ Jul 19 2006, 03:49 PM) *
You see your one of the people id find it ridiculous if Serbia was in it that you would play for them. You were born here and have lived here your entire life. Yes your whole family is foreign but your not. Now if you were born here but lived a good chunk of your life in Serbia or was living there currently than Id say it wouldnt make a difference between the 2.
For example my dad is from Pakistan but I have lived and was born here my whole life and if I had to choose I would of course pick an american team. And btw you are american.. doesnt matter if you hate it or not but you were born here and lived here your entire life....

Uuum, no, I am an American citizen.

Posted by: Brdrckr Jul 19 2006, 04:11 PM

If Gordon or Deng play for the GB team, I think that means when they are older and better, they can't play for the US team later down the raod. Tell me if Im wrong but that is what I believe. So I would not want to see either on the GB team, just for the fact they then couldn't play on the US team.

Anyone?

Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 19 2006, 04:17 PM

QUOTE (Brdrckr @ Jul 19 2006, 05:04 PM) *
If Gordon or Deng play for the GB team, I think that means when they are older and better, they can't play for the US team later down the raod. Tell me if Im wrong but that is what I believe. So I would not want to see either on the GB team, just for the fact they then couldn't play on the US team.

Anyone?

I'm not sure about International Basketball, but I know that in football, a player can change countries if his citizenship changes, or, in some cases, then can change countries depending on ancestry. For example, Zlatan Ibrahimovic could have chosen to play for Bosnia or Sweden, but chose to play in Sweden. He has Bosnian blood but moved to Sweden and was raised there.

Posted by: Brdrckr Jul 19 2006, 04:38 PM

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 19 2006, 05:10 PM) *
I'm not sure about International Basketball, but I know that in football, a player can change countries if his citizenship changes, or, in some cases, then can change countries depending on ancestry. For example, Zlatan Ibrahimovic could have chosen to play for Bosnia or Sweden, but chose to play in Sweden. He has Bosnian blood but moved to Sweden and was raised there.



http://www.fiba.com/asp_includes/download.asp?file_id=328

look at page 13, it really doesnt say anything about playing for two different teams, its just up to each countries own rules.

Posted by: TeaLeafReaderII Jul 19 2006, 08:11 PM

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 19 2006, 02:00 PM) *
Yes, I was born and raised in the US, but does that make me American?

If my entire family was Mexican and I was born in Japan when they went on vacation, should I support Japan? This whole citizenship thing is BS. I'm not American, I was born in America and I am an American citizen, but I am not American and America is not my country. Not 1 drop of Non-Serbian blood in me.


Just curious... but what are you going to do when you turn 18? Sign up for selective service, leave the country, or break the law?

I guess it probably isn't that big of a deal... because I don't see them reinstating the draft any time soon... but it is an interesting question.

Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 19 2006, 09:14 PM

QUOTE (Brdrckr @ Jul 19 2006, 03:04 PM) *
If Gordon or Deng play for the GB team, I think that means when they are older and better, they can't play for the US team later down the raod. Tell me if Im wrong but that is what I believe. So I would not want to see either on the GB team, just for the fact they then couldn't play on the US team.

Anyone?

I'd have to hope that would be the case. I think its a joke if you could go from country to country. I think once you play in international competition with a team you should be stuck with that country.

Posted by: dasox24 Jul 20 2006, 03:04 AM

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 19 2006, 10:07 PM) *
I'd have to hope that would be the case. I think its a joke if you could go from country to country. I think once you play in international competition with a team you should be stuck with that country.

That's for sure. If they're gonna allow people to pick and choose based on their personal feeling, then at least they should make that player stick with their 1st choice, so he can't switch back and forth.

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