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TeaLeafReaderII
Posted on: Jun 15 2009, 04:56 PM


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QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jun 9 2009, 02:39 PM) *
European banks aren't even CLOSE to being in as bad condition as Americas.


Um... wrong. Though there are some exceptions (France). America may have started it, but they brough most everyone down with them.
  Forum: Bulls Talk · Post Preview: #41007 · Replies: 15 · Views: 7,819

TeaLeafReaderII
Posted on: Apr 20 2009, 03:49 PM


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QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Apr 20 2009, 11:48 AM) *
LOL, whatever. Tyrus was a complete non-factor for the bulk of the game, suddenly he hits a few jumpers and he's a big-game player. I'm glad he hit them, but let's not go crazy here...


Come on. You're honestly telling me that when some other than Ben wants the ball and actually does something with it during a big moment at the end of game that it isn't time to celebrate?

And a non-factor offensively and on the glass? Yes. Defensively, he was significantly better than miller and TiT.
  Forum: Bulls Talk · Post Preview: #40281 · Replies: 24 · Views: 12,802

TeaLeafReaderII
Posted on: Apr 19 2009, 11:08 AM


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it may be a little early, but after their first playoffgame with any significant minutes. Tyrus showed he's been getting transfusions ice into his veins... and Lamarcus aldridged completely choked away any chance the Blazers had of winning a home playoff game.

Maybe there was a reason why Skiles refused to talk to him at lunch. He recognized that he is player that wilts in the big moments (see game against LSU).

Tyrus for all his much discussed faults has a sack and wants the ball in the big games.


I was pissed as hell at Tyrus's minutes... but Vinny had him in the game with 5 fouls for all of overtime. If Vinny had handled it differently chances are he would have fouled out... gotta hand it to him.
  Forum: Bulls Talk · Post Preview: #40261 · Replies: 24 · Views: 12,802

TeaLeafReaderII
Posted on: Apr 18 2009, 01:47 PM


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Tyrus Thomas with a bunch of clutch jump shots in overtime...

Ben Gordon keeping the Bulls in the game in the fourth.

oh, and Rose is spectacular.
  Forum: Bulls Talk · Post Preview: #40250 · Replies: 24 · Views: 12,802

TeaLeafReaderII
Posted on: Feb 16 2009, 05:35 PM


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Some insight on Tyrus from a dude that worked with him (David Thorpe)

Do you think that Tyrus Thomas will live up to the massive hype that the fans and the Bulls organization have put up for him?

Yeah, I do. First of all, I think, since December 1 if you do PER, I think he's close to right around 18, which is really good and remember that he's still 22. The question is, he did it December, he did it January. I think his December numbers, his PER was just under 18. In January, it was just under 16. In February, it's sky-rocketed because he's done so well in February so far. He got to keep doing that and if he does, as long as he gets 30+ minutes, he normally does, then he's going to be a very similar player to guys like Kirilenko. He's going to be just an absolute stat-stuffer. He's going to be one of those guys that does 16 points, 11 rebounds, 2.5 block shots, 2 steals, 3.5 assists and take 2 charges every game. He's definitely aware.


He's such a defensive threat because not just his steals and his block shots, but when he's really plugged in, which he's been doing a lot lately, he's contesting every shot around the rim and that drives field-goal percentages down. He's deflecting passes that would otherwise would be lay-ups for someone. He's just all over the place. Even if he's a step below Aldridge, and the argument I'll make right now is that he'll never be the scorer that Aldridge is. It's just not who he is. Of course he has no choice when nothing is run for him like it is for LaMarcus. I'm not saying anything should be run for Tyrus.


LaMarcus is a low-post threat. Tyrus never played the post until he got to college. He's had four coaches in five years now. He still has a long way to grow and learn but even if he's just an above-average offensive player, he has a chance to be a dynamic rebounder. I would say starting next year he's going to be on people's Top 10 for All-Defensive team. He's really good defending pick & rolls. He's really good helping his space against smaller guys. He's obviously a Top 10 elite shot blocker already, playing 25 minutes a game. Defensively, he has a chance to be a big-time difference maker.


Offensively, his game is improving. He's a way underrated passer. He's sometimes impetuous with turnovers and that's just experience. Ask Joakim Noah, Aaron Gray, or Lu Deng, guys that score buckets inside, it's because of pinpoint passes that Tyrus is throwing. The other night, I thought Vinny did a smart thing. The Hornets were pressing and they had a little trouble. They just started Tyrus back in the backcourt and he just brought the ball up, no problem. He made the pass to Derrick Rose and they started their offense. I think that as Vinny learns his players more and more, I mean, he just got there his first year himself. He's going to realize that he's got the ball skills. I think the debate between Aldridge and Thomas is going to end up always being had and I think it's going to be a much more closer match than people probably suspected a year ago
.

Do you think the coaching changes and the inconsistencies in minutes has maybe affected Thomas' development a little bit. Maybe not stunted his growth, but maybe stopped it a little bit. Do you think that's played a little bit of a factor?

I don't think there's any question of that. When you go through what they've gone through with a young player, there's going to be setbacks and there's going to be learning curves. Especially someone like Tyrus who's never really been a part of any kind of strong foundation. It wasn't like his high school program was great. He didn't go to junior college or prep school for a year. He went right to LSU. He red-shirtted because he got hurt and then he basically played for John Brady. No one accused of Brady of really having a tight disciplined Dean Smith style program. And then Scott Skiles did.


I think Tyrus would have been just fine with Scott and the myth that people think that Tyrus didn't like Coach Skiles. I don't think anyone liked Coach Skiles as a coach. He's not a guy that really cares what you like. When I first met Tyrus, he did nothing but praise to be sung about the kind of coach Skiles was and how much he respected him as a coach. Tyrus even said to me when I first met him last year last January, 'I missed that. I don't need freedom right now. I need structure.' He liked it. He knew where he needed to be on the floor. He's too talented, like Andray Blatche. They're so good, they're so talented and so tall and athletic and long. They can do almost anything. Skiles, I think, helped Tyrus locked him in with a laser-locked focus and a more tighter role. I think they're getting back to that now with Vinny. That's why I think he's gotten so much better, in terms of an efficient production.
  Forum: Bulls Talk · Post Preview: #39613 · Replies: 23 · Views: 9,949

TeaLeafReaderII
Posted on: Feb 13 2009, 03:09 PM


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the latest version of the trade which was Tyrus + Junk + Pick for Amare. I would do in a heart beat.

Though I still won't be upset if they don't break up the core. I really think terrible coaching is holding them back... for instance why the hell was Rose on the bench with 4.7 seconds left, the score tied and the bulls inbounding?
  Forum: Bulls Talk · Post Preview: #39568 · Replies: 153 · Views: 52,297

TeaLeafReaderII
Posted on: Feb 12 2009, 12:40 PM


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QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Feb 12 2009, 01:36 AM) *
Zach Randolph, Jason Kidd and John Stockton also had the surgery, and probably a bunch more of late if I tried to research it more. Not everyone gets a full recovery from it, but if you do you can still have a productive career. Amare was also a lot younger than most of the guys that had it, giving him a better chance for a full recovery. If he's showing no ill effects 3 years later I can't imagine it's a major issue.

Being younger only means that we will be on his new wheels longer so there is a larger chance of them breaking down. The surgery generates a replacement cartilidge which isn't as resiliant as the cartilage you're born with. It stands to reason that if his orriginal cartilidge ended up breaking down eventually the new stuff will. Its like joint replacement. If you have it done very early in your life, your chances of recovery are extremely high. However because you are young and active the chances of you needing a second and third joint replacement surgery are also quite high. The only player you listed who benifited as greatly from leaping ability as Amare is Chris Webber.



It doesn't really matter what his other offers are if the Bulls choose to let him go. They don't appear to be inclined to approach the luxury tax to retain Gordon, not with the team playing the way it has the last two years. I'd much rather pay the tax because of Amare than Gordon, I would hope the team feels the same way.

They will likely offer him the same offer they gave him last offseason and stay under the cap. Who will beat that dea in this economyl?



If we still had those pieces on the roster we wouldn't have the cap space (Tyrus and Thabo would account for $10 mil in cap holds in 2010), at least not without dumping Hinrich or Nocioni for an expiring deal. Plus that approach has worked out SOOOO well for the Bulls so far.

And making moves for established players like Ben Wallace at the cost of potential has worked out soooo well too. they held onto Thomas and Noah during the lean years... when they should have made the trade... now that there stock is finally going up. Should they really be so quick to let them go?


Given their lack of bulk/strength and fairly poor basketball IQ, it's far from a lock. Amare blocked a lot of shots when he was young too.

I disagree. I suppose time will tell.

Hughes' problems have little to do with his attitude, he's just not that good of a player. He's a career 41% shooter that still jacks up shots without a conscience, the only reason he ever cracked 15 points a game is he could fire away with impunity on bad teams. Why don't I just compare Amare to Shaq, that has just as much validity if not more.

Hughes was a highly regarded player in Washington, who had a precipitous drop in production when he left. After he started sucking, then we started hearing about the attitude issues. Thats the only point thatI was making. It had nothing to do with the type of game they play.


If you pass on the Amare deal, you better be damn sure that this current core is actually going to take you somewhere, because they won't have the opportunity to add someone significant for quite a while if they pay to keep them all around. They haven't exactly done a whole lot to make you think that this is a championship core, so you better do something. They're especially screwed if Gordon walks because they won't have the cap space to replace him. I'm sick and tired of seeing the Bulls mired in mediocrity because they don't have the balls to make a move and have this need to keep their mediocre core intact.

Amare gives them a major opportunity to boost their core and is by far the biggest impact move out there. Just look at how much Gasol helped the Lakers improve and then consider that Amare is a better player. Acquiring Stoudemire gives you a much better foundation to work with between him and Rose and you have a lot more margin for error with the rest of their roster, and he's still young so you don't exactly have to win right now. There really isn't a particularly good chance that the Bulls will find a better fit than this in the near future and eventually they're going to need to get some more help for Rose.


I won't be upset if they make the deal. Amare definitely isn't a scrub and it will be pretty fun watching him play with Rose. But I won't be upset if they don't make the deal either. I think Tyrus on Noah are going to keep improving and if they don't? Well then at least we get rid of an incompetent GM.

Gasol and KG play both ends of floor and actually have some leadership qualilties. I would take either of them way before taking Amare.
  Forum: Bulls Talk · Post Preview: #39507 · Replies: 153 · Views: 52,297

TeaLeafReaderII
Posted on: Feb 11 2009, 05:03 PM


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QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Feb 11 2009, 03:21 PM) *
-He had microfracture surgery 3 years ago and has been doing just fine since then.

How long will that last? What other basketball players can you point to who came back from that surgery and had a long career?... Chris Webber, maybe, but he stopped jumping after he came back. Amare is really the first guy to come back as good after the surgery and how long he will stay explosive is really an unknown.

-Yes, he's better than any package we can send that doesn't involve Rose. There's a reason the team is still only 23-29 on the year.

This year? definetly. Next year? probably. Year after that? Toss up.

-All signs point to Gordon leaving anyways, and theoretically if they have a contender JR just may pay the luxury tax (purely hypothetical)

Gordon will go where the money is. In this economy. What team is going to offer more than the Bulls?

-Him leaving is a concern, but if you're winning and/or giving him the ball a ton he's far more likely to stay. Plus if he doesn't, then you have that much desired cap space in 2010. While not ideal, that's better than where we are now.

But we would be worse than we would be had we kept Thomas, Noah, Sef and Draft pick, and let them develop

-His defense is bad, but it's not like the guys currently on the roster do a whole lot to stop opposing big men as it is.
In a year or two do you really think Noah and Tyrus won't be plus defenders?

-He didn't have attitude problems (or at least ones we knew about) until this season. Plus we're talking about a team that already has Larry Hughes on the roster and has had numerous flare-ups over the last two years, with none of the players involved having half the talent of Amare.

Funny you mention Larry Hughes... He was once considered a good player who was just starting to have attitude issues when he was 26 too....

You're very rarely going to find an opportunity to get a player of his caliber in his prime, and it's not like the rumored package includes even one All-Star going the other way. You're basically trading potential for production, and in basketball the team getting the star player basically ALWAYS wins the deal. How many times have we griped about the lack of major moves in the past? Now we're flip-flopping on that because Tyrus and the Bulls have played well over the last 7 games or so?This team is not going to make any serious noise as constructed, has no flexibility to add a significant piece until MAYBE 2010, and may be losing their best scorer because they've pissed him off and don't want to go over the luxury tax to keep the current team together.

If you're going to pass on Amare, exactly who are you waiting for to be available to upgrade this team? Lebron, Wade or Bosh falling into your lap in 2010? Even if that were to happen, Gordon and at least one of Tyrus/Hinrich/Nocioni would have to be gone to make it feasible financially. Amare is one of the major targets for 2010 anyways, you might as well try to get him for 60 cents on the dollar while you still can.


Your right. It is potential versus production. But we aren't talking about draft picks. We aren't talking about complete unknowns. We are talking about players that we are watching improve everyday, and they are improving. Something has clicked and we are watching them play much better. If you look at Thomas' per 36 numbers since Dec 1st and compare it against Amare's last season pre D'Antoni and Nash, they look pretty darn similar. (footnote: totally stole this last thought from a blogabull post)
  Forum: Bulls Talk · Post Preview: #39493 · Replies: 153 · Views: 52,297

TeaLeafReaderII
Posted on: Feb 11 2009, 02:55 PM


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QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Feb 11 2009, 01:39 PM) *
You're kidding, right? I mean...you have to be. Amare is 26! He's not some veteran who is on the decline. Ever since PHX has changed their philosophy, he has "struggled", if you want to call 22/9 a night struggling. Either way, like Zoom said, Tyrus's upward trending stats still don't sniff Amare's averages. And I can nearly guarantee Tyrus will never amount to what Amare has amounted too.


How old are his knees? And I don't think anyone will sit here and tell you that Tyrus is better than Amare. But is (Tyrus and/or Noah + Sef + first round pick better than Amare? Well thats a much better question.

And he wipes out any hope of resigning Ben Gordon.

And he can jump ship in 2010.

And his defense is so bad even D'Antoni didn't like it.

And he has attitude problems.

That said I still think he is great, but with the way Tyrus and Noah have reacted to increased playing time... unless I'm certain Amare puts the bulls over the hump this year or next... I'm not sure I make the trade
  Forum: Bulls Talk · Post Preview: #39488 · Replies: 153 · Views: 52,297

TeaLeafReaderII
Posted on: Feb 11 2009, 01:27 PM


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QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Feb 11 2009, 10:07 AM) *
You're unlikely to get Amare without giving up Tyrus, and frankly who cares. Amare AVERAGES better than what Tyrus typically does on one of his good nights.


Yeah, but Amare's stats are trending downward. Tyrus's are trending up.

Its another Wallace/Tyson situation. Do you think Amare can put the Bulls over the top in the next 1.5 years? Go for it.

If you think it will be about 3 years before Rose is ready to take the Bulls on a deep playoff run, hang on to the young guys and hope they can develop some chemistry.

Which way to go? I'm not sure.
  Forum: Bulls Talk · Post Preview: #39480 · Replies: 153 · Views: 52,297

TeaLeafReaderII
Posted on: Feb 9 2009, 10:49 AM


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Looking at the whole season Tyrus' 1:1 hasn't been to good. However, now that he has seen consitant minutes and seems more engaged, he is looking better. (i.e. getting killed by Yao Ming is a lot more excusable then getting killed by Gadzuric)
  Forum: Bulls Talk · Post Preview: #39393 · Replies: 23 · Views: 9,949

TeaLeafReaderII
Posted on: Jan 19 2009, 10:55 AM


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hmmm your anti tyrus rhetoric echos that which was directed towards Tyson Chandler. Maybe you can keep it up and convince the bulls brass to ditch Tyrus for pennies on the dollar and then they can pick up an aging defensive/rebounding ace like Camby watch him decline faster than expected and see the franchise set back several more years. Are you guys allergic to letting young bigs develope?

We knew Tyrus was a project. He didn't play organized ball until his senior year of highschool. Pax picked him with the expectation that he wouldn't be playing much until wallace started to decline which most didn't think would be for 2 or 3 years. He screwed up. Wallace gave up on the team and for the last 2 years Lamarcus would have been better, but that doesn't mean he will be better for the next 2.

I don't want to make it seem like I'm against trading Tyrus. I'm not. No one on this team is untouchable but Rose. But they shouldn't get rid of him for the sake of getting rid of him.

And don't throw Hughes stats at me. When he is out there they aren't playing team basketball. Swap Hughes minutes for Hinrich and this team becomes watchable. In Hughes defense there was about a month where he wasn't too selfish and the team looked good. Sadly it didn't last.
  Forum: Bulls Talk · Post Preview: #39210 · Replies: 34 · Views: 13,194

TeaLeafReaderII
Posted on: Jan 16 2009, 04:36 PM


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QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jan 16 2009, 01:42 PM) *
Whoopie, he had a good game and helped us win against a tough team. The problem is on the flip side if he had shown up against OKC we probably win that one too, instead he put up a dis-interested 6-2 in 26 minutes. He's been a bit more consistent of late, but he's still not exactly setting the world on fire and we're still a bad team. I really wish people would get off his jock every time he has a good game, I don't see everyone flipping out because Deng put up 22-8 with 4 steals one night after he went for 16-14. It's one thing to get excited about the team's performance now and then, but I've never seen so much fellating of a guy that averages 10-6 in a good month.

If he were really making such a HUGE difference we'd be better than .500 in this recent stretch. We got one win against a Cleveland team we shouldn't have and two losses against OKC/Minnesota teams we shouldn't have, that's not exactly significant progress.


See, but its a 10-6 guy with loads of potential. Every big game like this there is a chance he turned the corner. That is exciting. Especially because he is tall, fast, and can jump high. You know the type of guy that should be able to fit in with Derrick Rose in a fast paced game really well.

He played awesome defense against the MVP of the league. You saw the game, no? Did it look like Lebron was hampered because of his cold? Was that why he was missing layups? Or was he tentative because he was worried about TT altering/blocking his shot? To quote Henry Abbot: "His next matchup with LeBron James will be must-watch, because last night Thomas got himself on the short list of defenders who can bother LeBron James once in a while."


This spiff is exiting. Felating is acceptable. Go ahead and touch it, Dave.


P.S. the game against OKC was different. Larry Hughes played. Those games don't count.

PPS If Hinrich and Deng keep playing like they are the Bulls are going to be above .500 and back in the playoff picture in no time.
  Forum: Bulls Talk · Post Preview: #39190 · Replies: 34 · Views: 13,194

TeaLeafReaderII
Posted on: Jan 15 2009, 04:00 PM


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QUOTE (Chicago Bulls Franchise @ Jan 15 2009, 01:37 AM) *
I haven't seen the Bulls play since Kirk has been back. How's he looking?


Active on defense and he made some shots. I think his defense looked much better than last year.
  Forum: Bulls Talk · Post Preview: #39171 · Replies: 8 · Views: 4,262

TeaLeafReaderII
Posted on: Dec 29 2008, 03:17 PM


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Mike McGraw's blog had a pretty good reference to KC's column:

"Since the purpose of this blog is to share information, I'd like to mention that I work under the assumption every basketball player at any level wants more playing time. So I see no reason to run up to guys who get their court time cut hoping they'll say something controversial. If you disagree, feel free to send a note."
  Forum: Bulls Talk · Post Preview: #38972 · Replies: 9 · Views: 4,811

TeaLeafReaderII
Posted on: Dec 18 2008, 11:16 AM


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I don't know. I think Reinsdorf is the real problem. I think if Pax had his way D'Antonio would be on the Bench and we would be watching 120pt+ games with Rose putting up double doubles (pts and assists) like they are going out of style while the bulls would be looking like one of the elite teams in the east (maybe not on the same level as the boston celtics or the cleaveland lebrons but certainly better then the magic and the hawks.)
  Forum: Bulls Talk · Post Preview: #38783 · Replies: 26 · Views: 8,958

TeaLeafReaderII
Posted on: Dec 3 2008, 09:18 PM


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Maybe if the Bulls had a center on the floor. Gadzuric wouldn't have gotten the game ending offensive rebound?
  Forum: Bulls Talk · Post Preview: #38684 · Replies: 16 · Views: 6,880

TeaLeafReaderII
Posted on: Dec 3 2008, 09:10 PM


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Its kind of curious that Noah hasn't made it back in yet... 2 blocks and 5 rebounds in 9 minutes ain't all bad. Its certainly better than what nocioni and gray have done... although I am just following the game tracker...
  Forum: Bulls Talk · Post Preview: #38682 · Replies: 16 · Views: 6,880

TeaLeafReaderII
Posted on: Dec 3 2008, 09:04 PM


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Gordon got his breather, get your hottest shooter back in there and Hughes the hell out. Pull Nocioni here wouldn't be all bad either...
  Forum: Bulls Talk · Post Preview: #38681 · Replies: 16 · Views: 6,880

TeaLeafReaderII
Posted on: Dec 3 2008, 08:52 PM


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So Gordon comes out cold has hell shooting 1-8 from the floor. Vinny sticks with him and next thing you know Gordon is shooting 50% from the field and Bulls are in striking distances after he explodes in the third quarter.
  Forum: Bulls Talk · Post Preview: #38679 · Replies: 16 · Views: 6,880

TeaLeafReaderII
Posted on: Nov 30 2008, 06:43 PM


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Bull's win! How bout that, a not terrible road trip. Noah and Tyrus didn't look terribe against a couple quality bigs. Maybe there's hope yet.
  Forum: Bulls Talk · Post Preview: #38653 · Replies: 2 · Views: 1,833

TeaLeafReaderII
Posted on: Nov 30 2008, 05:05 PM


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Watching the game, Bulls just went on an 18-2 run to take the lead. Some of the best basketball I've watched in a long time. The three days off really paid off.
  Forum: Bulls Talk · Post Preview: #38652 · Replies: 2 · Views: 1,833

TeaLeafReaderII
Posted on: Nov 24 2008, 08:57 PM


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lindsay hunter should not be getting this many minutes in any circumstance
  Forum: Bulls Talk · Post Preview: #38607 · Replies: 10 · Views: 4,363

TeaLeafReaderII
Posted on: Nov 22 2008, 08:45 AM


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In the Tribune they said it was a bruised hip. Rose said he just needed it iced and massaged. Said he wouldn't be missing any games. I wonder if Rose has turned a corner and just became spectacular or if the warriors are just a great match up for him.
  Forum: Bulls Talk · Post Preview: #38564 · Replies: 14 · Views: 6,976

TeaLeafReaderII
Posted on: Nov 21 2008, 11:56 PM


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That run Rose had in the 4rth quarter was spectacular. Too bad he messed up his... hip?
  Forum: Bulls Talk · Post Preview: #38562 · Replies: 14 · Views: 6,976

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