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TalkBulls Forums _ Bulls Talk _ Rumor: Chandler to the Hornets
Posted by: BuLLzDoMaIn Jul 2 2006, 01:26 AM
The hornets. So i have been reading alot around realgm and the horents fourm and bulls. the trade inculdes Chandler and Allen for Pj and JR smith
I think this is an ok trade IF we get ben wallace. Cause with wallace high contract we are able to get rid of chandlers. And this is the last year on PJ's big contract. Which gives us cap space for next season.
THOUGHTS?
Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 2 2006, 01:33 AM
Do you have a link to the rumor? What are the sources?
Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 2 2006, 01:45 AM
Ah, now I see that this was an inside source for the Hornets that revealed this rumor and the rumor that Peja was signing with the Hornets. If he called Peja, he must be in the know...
Posted by: HoofHearted Jul 2 2006, 01:49 AM
This trade doesnt make any sense, another SG/SF and an OLD PF, while taking away a very good young defender and depth from the weakest spot in our rotation. Getting PJ takes away 5 points and boards a game from our post, why would we even consider this deal? Yes Smith has superstar athletic ability, but why would we ever want to make our frontcourt any weaker. Hey but It's such a financial strain to keep Tyson with our 16 million in cap space, but lets invest 16 million in the same type of one dimensional "but proven" player.
Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 2 2006, 01:53 AM
QUOTE (HoofHearted @ Jul 2 2006, 02:42 AM)
This trade doesnt make any sense, another SG/SF and an OLD PF, while taking away a very good young defender and depth from the weakest spot in our rotation. Getting PJ takes away 5 points and boards a game from our post, why would we even consider this deal? Yes Smith has superstar athletic ability, but why would we ever want to make our frontcourt any weaker. Hey but It's such a financial strain to keep Tyson with our 16 million in cap space, but lets invest 16 million in the same type of one dimensional "but proven" player.
Well, PJ is an expirign contract and getting rid of Chandler frees up some more cap space. There are a few scenarios here:
1.) PJ Brown is our stop-gap PF or C.
2.) This might be a 3-way trade.
3.) This might be a precursor to another deal (KG, O'Neal).
As far as smith, I think he is probably part of the deal in case Sefolosha has trouble adjusting to the NBA right away.
Posted by: HoofHearted Jul 2 2006, 02:00 AM
QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 2 2006, 01:46 AM)
Well, PJ is an expirign contract and getting rid of Chandler frees up some more cap space. There are a few scenarios here:
1.) PJ Brown is our stop-gap PF or C.
2.) This might be a 3-way trade.
3.) This might be a precursor to another deal (KG, O'Neal).
As far as smith, I think he is probably part of the deal in case Sefolosha has trouble adjusting to the NBA right away.
1.) PJ Brown is our stop-gap PF or C.
2.) This might be a 3-way trade.
3.) This might be a precursor to another deal (KG, O'Neal).
As far as smith, I think he is probably part of the deal in case Sefolosha has trouble adjusting to the NBA right away.
Why do we need to free up more space right now? We have 16 million to do what we need now, and we can decide what to do depending on our performance with this team. Im sorry but giving up Tyson now is just dumb, sell high buy low, not the other way around. WE have the cap situation to allow us to see how he works out this year, if he sucks forget him, it's not like we could do worse than PJ Brown and another SF for him.
Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 2 2006, 02:02 AM
QUOTE (HoofHearted @ Jul 2 2006, 02:53 AM)
Why do we need to free up more space right now? We have 16 million to do what we need now, and we can decide what to do depending on our performance with this team. Im sorry but giving up Tyson now is just dumb, sell high buy low, not the other way around. WE have the cap situation to allow us to see how he works out this year, if he sucks forget him, it's not like we could do worse than PJ Brown and another SF for him.
Only logical reason I see for trading Chandler and getting rid of his contract is because they will sign or have an agreement to sign a very expensive player...
And if Chandler sucks in 2006, no one is going to want to trade for him. What don't you understand about that? After 04/05, his value was at it's highest and its still high now. If he has another 06/07 season like 05/06, we can shove his contract up our asses because no one will want him.
Posted by: HoofHearted Jul 2 2006, 02:03 AM
QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 2 2006, 01:55 AM)
Only logical reason I see for trading Chandler and getting rid of his contract is because they will sign or have an agreement to sign a very expensive player...
Two more very expensive players you mean, we havent signed Ben yet, and like I said that shouldnt change a thing.
Posted by: WHarris1 Jul 2 2006, 02:16 AM
The original source of this rumor seems to be VERY reliable.
Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 2 2006, 02:17 AM
QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jul 2 2006, 03:09 AM)
The original source of this rumor seems to be VERY reliable.
Definitely. He called Simmons with the 15th pick, he called Peja going to NO/OK, and now he's giving us this rumor. Many seem to think it's as close to done as it gets.
Posted by: WHarris1 Jul 2 2006, 02:17 AM
QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 2 2006, 03:10 AM)
Definitely. He called Simmons with the 15th pick, he called Peja going to NO/OK, and now he's giving us this rumor. Many seem to think it's as close to done as it gets.
Seems like the driving force behind this deal would be to free up cap space down the road to resign the rest of our core.
Posted by: WHarris1 Jul 2 2006, 02:22 AM
We also have no use for JR Smith so it seems like it could be a precursor for another move.
Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 2 2006, 02:24 AM
QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jul 2 2006, 03:10 AM)
Seems like the driving force behind this deal would be to free up cap space down the road to resign the rest of our core.
Yup, with Brown's contract expring after 07, we'd have the space to re-up Noc, Deng, and Kirk.
Not sure what this means on the Ben Wallace/Free Agency front...
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 2 2006, 04:28 AM
QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jul 2 2006, 12:10 AM)
Seems like the driving force behind this deal would be to free up cap space down the road to resign the rest of our core.
Thats not the issue, but it could give us enough money to make a nice push at someone once again next year cause after that we'll be entirely capped out for a long time (especially if all goes well).
Posted by: B-4-Bulls Jul 2 2006, 09:19 AM
Guys this is a dumb trade IMO. Why would we want to give up a great defensive player for some old guy that really cant play anymore with another SG?
Posted by: bschmaranz Jul 2 2006, 09:47 AM
If it allows us to have the space to keep the core together after next season, I'm all for it. Chandler is a waste of money imo.
Posted by: DutheDoduhon21 Jul 2 2006, 10:30 AM
we need chandler he is a big part of our deffensive game there is no need for pj, hes old, and jr smith is just another sg or sf, there is no point of this trade
Posted by: The Gladiator Jul 2 2006, 10:31 AM
QUOTE (DutheDoduhon21 @ Jul 2 2006, 10:23 AM)
we need chandler he is a big part of our deffensive game there is no need for pj, hes old, and jr smith is just another sg or sf, there is no point of this trade
I agree
Posted by: The Gladiator Jul 2 2006, 10:50 AM
QUOTE
Do people forget that he is factually the most skilled and productive rebounder in the NBA?
Do people forget that he is known to make dramatic, game saving incredible blocks on "closers" like Paul Pierce?
Do people forget that he is 23 years old? (younder than Kirk, for example)
Do people forget that about half of all good big men take years in the NBA to reach their potential?
Do people forget that there are only a couple guys in the whole league that can guard the basket better than Tyson?
Do people forget that as a pencil thin 20 year old he was having 20+ pt and 20+ rebound games, against guys like Shaq in his prime?
Do people forget that Ben Wallace rebounds less frequently than Tyson but is almost a decade older and will cost twice as much, but unlike Tyson is certain to never have an offensive game?
Do people forget that Joel Przybilla is, indeed, Joel Przbilla (I actually liek him as a Chandler backup but come on he is certainly no better than Tyson)?
Do people forget that Tyson is the only real player on this team over 6'9"?
Do people remember that without Tyson playing well (as he played down the stretch this year), we are a well below .500 team?
I mean come on people, he is a limited player and makes physical mistakes but he is excellent on rebounding and altering shots, just excellent, and those qualities are very rare and we will not get a better one than him without giving uo the core. I'm not his biggest fan but it doesn't make any sense to let him go when he has proven to be integral to our success. Don't tell me you want to get rid of his salary. Why? Anyone on this board who thinks we won't pay Deng, Ben, Kirk, Noc etc because we're paying Tyson does not know this organization very well. That is the only reason to get rid of Tyson, and it's null.
Do people forget that he is known to make dramatic, game saving incredible blocks on "closers" like Paul Pierce?
Do people forget that he is 23 years old? (younder than Kirk, for example)
Do people forget that about half of all good big men take years in the NBA to reach their potential?
Do people forget that there are only a couple guys in the whole league that can guard the basket better than Tyson?
Do people forget that as a pencil thin 20 year old he was having 20+ pt and 20+ rebound games, against guys like Shaq in his prime?
Do people forget that Ben Wallace rebounds less frequently than Tyson but is almost a decade older and will cost twice as much, but unlike Tyson is certain to never have an offensive game?
Do people forget that Joel Przybilla is, indeed, Joel Przbilla (I actually liek him as a Chandler backup but come on he is certainly no better than Tyson)?
Do people forget that Tyson is the only real player on this team over 6'9"?
Do people remember that without Tyson playing well (as he played down the stretch this year), we are a well below .500 team?
I mean come on people, he is a limited player and makes physical mistakes but he is excellent on rebounding and altering shots, just excellent, and those qualities are very rare and we will not get a better one than him without giving uo the core. I'm not his biggest fan but it doesn't make any sense to let him go when he has proven to be integral to our success. Don't tell me you want to get rid of his salary. Why? Anyone on this board who thinks we won't pay Deng, Ben, Kirk, Noc etc because we're paying Tyson does not know this organization very well. That is the only reason to get rid of Tyson, and it's null.
Great post by a guy on another Bulls MB, Thats why I want to keep Tyson
Posted by: Bullies4Ever Jul 2 2006, 11:07 AM
QUOTE (DutheDoduhon21 @ Jul 2 2006, 10:23 AM)
we need chandler he is a big part of our deffensive game there is no need for pj, hes old, and jr smith is just another sg or sf, there is no point of this trade
exactly.. i dont find this trade to be very good..
PJ is up there in age.. hes becoming kinda slow... and JR Smith.. why do we want another SG? we are already full at SF so he wont play that..
why dont we keep chandler? Hes developing as our core is too.. it would be better if they all get close to their prime at the same time... once our core gets pretty good and are close to their prime, PJ will be too slow, probably not even in the NBA..
And we would all say... why did we trade Chandler for nothing? we would probably have our other part of the core... but what about a big guy? whos that going to be? If we did sign BWall he would be up there in age...
guys Chandler still has a ton of potential.. if this guy can get up to 260 in 2 years, he would be a force puching people around.. the guy still has potential.. Hes not dumb... he wants to stay in this Bulls team.. he knows he has a huge contract to live up too... thats why he practicing his butt of right now... or else he knows what will happen to him... He would hear the boos.. and eventually get traded...
The guy has showed flashes to be a pretty good player.. he just needs to get consistent... and hopefully the refs will give him the veteran calls one day...
I say we keep chandler!!! yeahh!!!!! He didnt have the best season.. so what? are we ready to give up on this guy yet? Hes only 23 years old.. scheesh...
Hes a pretty good darn rebounder.. he wasnt ranked 1st in tbe NBA for minutes for nothing...
Posted by: WHarris1 Jul 2 2006, 11:17 AM
QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 2 2006, 05:21 AM)
Thats not the issue, but it could give us enough money to make a nice push at someone once again next year cause after that we'll be entirely capped out for a long time (especially if all goes well).
Trading Tyson for PJ Brown provides much more financial flexability for a few years to come.
Whether it directly leads to cap room doesn't matter. Not having a huge contract already on the team could make JR more willing to give Ben, Kirk, Luol, and Noc whatever they need.
Posted by: Bullies4Life Jul 2 2006, 11:22 AM
I just really hope that Chandler starts getting veteran calls one day... kinda like the Pistons, and Spurs do... I think that maybe once we become a very good team, then refs will look at our team as a team that should beat the "Blanck" team, and we will be getting those calls... Cuz Wow Chandler gets treated like a rookie out there soo many times... And Same with Kirk Hinrich... I cant stand that sometimes... 
Posted by: The Gladiator Jul 2 2006, 11:44 AM
plz dont trade chandler pax, I will be very furious because he can still be that "Star" That we foresaw when we drafted him. HES ONLY 23 YEARS OLD!
Posted by: soxfan101 Jul 2 2006, 11:56 AM
QUOTE (The Gladiator @ Jul 2 2006, 11:37 AM)
plz dont trade chandler pax, I will be very furious because he can still be that "Star" That we foresaw when we drafted him. HES ONLY 23 YEARS OLD!
im so sick of only 23. First it was only 21 than it was only 22 now its only 23.... soon it will be only 25 than still only 28.......
Posted by: bulls91 Jul 2 2006, 12:00 PM
QUOTE (HoofHearted @ Jul 2 2006, 01:42 AM)
This trade doesnt make any sense, another SG/SF and an OLD PF, while taking away a very good young defender and depth from the weakest spot in our rotation. Getting PJ takes away 5 points and boards a game from our post, why would we even consider this deal? Yes Smith has superstar athletic ability, but why would we ever want to make our frontcourt any weaker. Hey but It's such a financial strain to keep Tyson with our 16 million in cap space, but lets invest 16 million in the same type of one dimensional "but proven" player.
the old one will help out with ty thomas and maybe that is what chandler needs is a older player ot help him out and becaome a basketball player that he should be. they are also thinking that there is another trade in the works with another one of our SG perhaps gordon or hinrich .
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 2 2006, 12:08 PM
QUOTE (DutheDoduhon21 @ Jul 2 2006, 08:23 AM)
we need chandler he is a big part of our deffensive game there is no need for pj, hes old, and jr smith is just another sg or sf, there is no point of this trade
I'm guessing this is one of those deals that gets made once a FA signing happens. If it doesn't happen it doesn't go down.
Thats my guess, but I do think Pyrzbilla or Nene could be similar players for a lot less money than we pay Chandler so regardless I'm not against this trade. I do wonder if another team may be interested in Smith.
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 2 2006, 12:18 PM
The same Charlotte source has indicated the deal may not be as much of a lock anymore.
QUOTE
I expected the Bulls deal to be finalized this weekend. I'm not sure if it will happen as scheduled or not. From what I'm hearing, another team has entered the pursuit of Chandler. I think the asking price may have gone up. Like I've said in the past, until it's done, you can't call it a slam dunk.
It sounds like there are some definate legs to this, but my guess is Pax wants to explore every angle and get as much as possible in return for Chandler, who I can pretty much guarantee will be moved at some point this year.
We can get similar production for half the price out of a guy like Pyrzbilla or someone like Nene (or get way more production at a similar price out of Big Ben).
I'm curious to know who the 3rd team is. Is Golden State still talking, do the Knicks want him, lol.
Posted by: The Gladiator Jul 2 2006, 12:20 PM
I will cry if Chandler is traded 
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 2 2006, 12:21 PM
QUOTE (The Gladiator @ Jul 2 2006, 10:13 AM)
I will cry if Chandler is traded
He's so over-rated its a joke. He got his contract and now expectations have went up (whether fair or unfair) and he didn't come even close to being a good player. He still comitts stupid foul after stupid foul and really in general is so incredibly streaky.
I have always liked his attitude, but for what we pay him, if we can get some good stuff for him and free cap space, go for it.
Posted by: WHarris1 Jul 2 2006, 12:21 PM
Heres an interesting post on it...
QUOTE
As of last night, it was supposed to finalize on Sunday. Of course things can change quick. Haven't talked with anyone today, but No1's mention that another team is interested in PJ could slow and change the process. When I talked with my friend last night, he called the Chandler/Tyson for JR/PJ deal about an 85% chance of being finalized.
Posted by: The Gladiator Jul 2 2006, 12:25 PM
QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 2 2006, 12:14 PM)
He's so over-rated its a joke. He got his contract and now expectations have went up (whether fair or unfair) and he didn't come even close to being a good player. He still comitts stupid foul after stupid foul and really in general is so incredibly streaky.
I have always liked his attitude, but for what we pay him, if we can get some good stuff for him and free cap space, go for it.
I have always liked his attitude, but for what we pay him, if we can get some good stuff for him and free cap space, go for it.
Chandler is one of the Top 5 best rebounders in the NBA and remember this was his first season not playing with Eddy Curry (His Best Friend) so I REALLY want to give him another chance. I think if we trade him now it will defentaley come back to haunt us! And WTF, Why are we suposeably trading him for PJ BROWN OMG The guy is 37 Years old. STUPID TRADE! PLZ DONT TRADE TYSON
Posted by: BuLLzDoMaIn Jul 2 2006, 12:28 PM
Paxson is trading tyson if we get wallace i think. If we sign wallace he takes up alot of money. We trade chandler and get more money back so we can sigh free agents next season or we cant trade PJ. Dont forget we still got to resign Kirk ben noc and deng, Cant have too many big contracts here. and im sure none of them want to make less then what chandler is.
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 2 2006, 12:31 PM
QUOTE (The Gladiator @ Jul 2 2006, 10:18 AM)
Chandler is one of the Top 5 best rebounders in the NBA and remember this was his first season not playing with Eddy Curry (His Best Friend) so I REALLY want to give him another chance. I think if we trade him now it will defentaley come back to haunt us! And WTF, Why are we suposeably trading him for PJ BROWN OMG The guy is 37 Years old. STUPID TRADE! PLZ DONT TRADE TYSON
I don't think Chandler is a top 5 rebounder simply because he can't stay on the court. Otherwise I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with that cause he is a very good rebounder. PJ Brown would provide leadership, but more importantly he gives the Bulls an option to be players in both this years FA class and next years FA class, which could be huge when it comes to putting the Bulls OVER the top.
Posted by: The Gladiator Jul 2 2006, 12:34 PM
QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 2 2006, 12:24 PM)
I don't think Chandler is a top 5 rebounder simply because he can't stay on the court. Otherwise I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with that cause he is a very good rebounder. PJ Brown would provide leadership, but more importantly he gives the Bulls an option to be players in both this years FA class and next years FA class, which could be huge when it comes to putting the Bulls OVER the top.
Ya but we cant just GIVE Tyson away if we are going to trade him. PJ Brown will do nothing for this team. Tyson atleast did something and who knows maybe hes working on his offensive game this summer and may become a better scorer wich I think he will. Thats why I want to give him another chance. I hate this trade, it makes me sick
Posted by: BuLLzDoMaIn Jul 2 2006, 12:36 PM
You guys are thinkin so wrong about this trade. Your saying you cant trust paxson??? come on everything paxson has done has worked out GREAT.
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 2 2006, 12:36 PM
QUOTE (The Gladiator @ Jul 2 2006, 10:27 AM)
Ya but we cant just GIVE Tyson away if we are going to trade him. PJ Brown will do nothing for this team. Tyson atleast did something and who knows maybe hes working on his offensive game this summer and may become a better scorer wich I think he will. Thats why I want to give him another chance. I hate this trade, it makes me sick
I actually think Brown may have been a better player than Chandler last year, but I don't watch enough of there games to say that for sure. But Chandler was pretty spiffy last year so I'd be hard pressed if Brown wasn't better.
Now I'm obviously not taking upside into account, but quite frankly I'm sick of that word and Chandler cause its been a long while now.
Posted by: The Gladiator Jul 2 2006, 01:39 PM
QUOTE
"The one disappointment in all this is Paxson saying the Bulls still value 7-footer Tyson Chandler, the way pigeons value roof tops. A bold move would be dumping his ridiculous salary"
that was a little piece of an Article talking about the bulls, well thats good. Atleast we still value him and I really dont think he will be traded.
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Jul 2 2006, 01:57 PM
It would be sad to see Tyson go, but if its for the good of the team then Im ok with it. Remember the 2007 free agent class is much better than this year. Dumping Chandlers salary will allow us to pursue another Big Time Free Agent.
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 2 2006, 02:30 PM
QUOTE
The Spurs also will explore trading for a center. Milwaukee's Jamaal Magloire is on the market, Philadelphia and Chicago could entertain trades, respectively, for Samuel Dalembert and Tyson Chandler. Dalembert and Chandler would fit well with the Spurs. Both are young, run the floor well and block shots. Both, however, also have significant contracts: Dalembert has five years and $55.7million remaining; Chandler, five years and $54million.
The Spurs could have interest in Chandler, but I have no idea in what they'd be able to offer us that the Bulls would be interested in, so a 3rd team would likely have to be involved.
If we netted Dalembert (who I think is better than Tys) I wouldn't be opposed to such a deal
Posted by: Bullies4Ever Jul 2 2006, 03:17 PM
QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 2 2006, 12:14 PM)
He's so over-rated its a joke. He got his contract and now expectations have went up (whether fair or unfair) and he didn't come even close to being a good player. He still comitts stupid foul after stupid foul and really in general is so incredibly streaky.
I have always liked his attitude, but for what we pay him, if we can get some good stuff for him and free cap space, go for it.
I have always liked his attitude, but for what we pay him, if we can get some good stuff for him and free cap space, go for it.
ha ha... that was a funny post... overrated? hmm.. i think underated..
he commits stupid fouls? yeah.. i would agree to some extend... but some blame has to go to the refs too.. not all the blame.. but a little...
have u ever seen KG,ben wallace, Shaq.... Jermaine play? When i watch them play i always see some contact before the block and they get away with it... And u hear me yell out "What!! that wasnt a foul??!!!! jeez.. if that was chandler that would have easily been a foul..." ive seen it so many times... its not even funny....
I say we give him another chance... He was the only guy that was above 6'9 in our roster other than Luke... when a team only has one guy that tall i would attack the crap out of him knowing the refs would always blow the whistle on him....
in which teams did do that....
u know whats funny... i dont think no one complained when we reached an agreement with chandler last year.. everyone was just happy we signed him back because without him we would absolutely have no imtidation factor.... and then he has an ok season (not bad but not good kind of season) and everyone wants to trade him already... Pax is smart guys... he knows all of this.... theres a reason why Chandler got offered that big contract... I dont think hes ready to give up on him yet...
Plus the guy didnt even work on his game last summer because of his freaking agent. (which is a smart move.. u dont want to be injured when a new contract is on the way)..... And skiles says... why is everyone surprised?..... do u expect to him get better like that??
Skiles is the man.. without him this bulls team would be nothing.. ha ha
Posted by: WHarris1 Jul 2 2006, 05:06 PM
By the way the source on the Hornets board that started this also called the Bobby Jackson signing which just happend. He definitely knows something.
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 2 2006, 05:22 PM
QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jul 2 2006, 02:59 PM)
By the way the source on the Hornets board that started this also called the Bobby Jackson signing which just happend. He definitely knows something.
Simmons - RIGHT
Jackson - RIGHT
Peja - RIGHT (and no one saw that coming)
Definately has some sources and connections.
Posted by: Chicago Bulls Franchise Jul 2 2006, 05:34 PM
Do you think theyd throw in Cedric Simmons?
Posted by: dasox24 Jul 2 2006, 10:29 PM
I really want to give Chandler another year to try to prove something unless we get rid of him for KG. Otherwise, I want to see how he does this year.
Btw, didn't Jermaine O'Neal take 5-6 years until he actually did something worth noting in the league? Now look at what kind of player he is. Who knows if Chandler will ever amount to that (probably not), but there's always that chance. And, it's a chance I'm willing to take.
Also, for those of you worried about how much Tyson gets called for fouls, I don't think he'd have to worry as much with a guy like Ben Wallace playing next to him. He'd be much more free to roam around w/ Ben as our first line of defense and Chandler coming over to help, rather than Chandler having to be that guy who has to make the initial contact. We all know Wallace gets away with a lot of calls, and I think Chandler would benefit from having him be the guy that goes after anyone attacking the rim, which would allow Chandler to come over to help and get more blocks.
Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 2 2006, 10:35 PM
It took O'Neal 4 season to get it together. After his 4th season in Portland, he was traded to Indiana. Tyson is entering his 6th season. And that is a bad comparison, considering Jermaine has an offensive game.
Posted by: dasox24 Jul 2 2006, 11:00 PM
QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 2 2006, 10:28 PM)
It took O'Neal 4 season to get it together. After his 4th season in Portland, he was traded to Indiana. Tyson is entering his 6th season. And that is a bad comparison, considering Jermaine has an offensive game.
Well, maybe I don't remember much about Jermaine when he was in Portland, so I don't know what his "game" consisted of... although how could you either when he only averaged 11.4 minutes/game in his first 4 seasons.
And don't try to spin it by using terms like 4th year and 6th year. You try to make Chandler sound worse by saying "Tyson is entering his 6th season" and O'Neal sound better by using "4th season" in describing him. That makes it sound like Tyson has taken two years longer to contribute, whereas if he were to make a big time impact this year, it would only be one year after O'Neal made his first signifant impact.
So, while Chandler has had more overall PT during his first few years in the NBA, he's also had a back injury to deal with (which basically took a year out of his development), stupid advice from his agent (to not work out over summer while trying to get a big contract, which basically made the first half of this year a wash), and other little things that have stunted his growth.
However, now he has no choice but to produce. There are no more excuses for him to make. He's out of them.
BTW, I'm kinda just playing devil's advocate here b/c if we did make the Hornets trade, and then spun Brown to Detroit in a sign and trade for Wallace, followed by a signing of, let's say, Drew Gooden, I'd absolutely love that. I'm just trying to stick up for Tyson b/c I do like him.
Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 2 2006, 11:14 PM
QUOTE (dasox24 @ Jul 2 2006, 11:53 PM)
Well, maybe I don't remember much about Jermaine when he was in Portland, so I don't know what his "game" consisted of... although how could you either when he only averaged 11.4 minutes/game in his first 4 seasons.
And don't try to spin it by using terms like 4th year and 6th year. You try to make Chandler sound worse by saying "Tyson is entering his 6th season" and O'Neal sound better by using "4th season" in describing him. That makes it sound like Tyson has taken two years longer to contribute, whereas if he were to make a big time impact this year, it would only be one year after O'Neal made his first signifant impact.
So, while Chandler has had more overall PT during his first few years in the NBA, he's also had a back injury to deal with (which basically took a year out of his development), stupid advice from his agent (to not work out over summer while trying to get a big contract, which basically made the first half of this year a wash), and other little things that have stunted his growth.
However, now he has no choice but to produce. There are no more excuses for him to make. He's out of them.
Also, I'm kinda just playing devil's advocate here b/c if we did make the Hornets trade, and then spun Brown to Detroit in a sign and trade for Wallace, followed by a signing of, let's say, Drew Gooden, I'd absolutely love that. I'm just trying to stick up for Tyson b/c I do like him.
And don't try to spin it by using terms like 4th year and 6th year. You try to make Chandler sound worse by saying "Tyson is entering his 6th season" and O'Neal sound better by using "4th season" in describing him. That makes it sound like Tyson has taken two years longer to contribute, whereas if he were to make a big time impact this year, it would only be one year after O'Neal made his first signifant impact.
So, while Chandler has had more overall PT during his first few years in the NBA, he's also had a back injury to deal with (which basically took a year out of his development), stupid advice from his agent (to not work out over summer while trying to get a big contract, which basically made the first half of this year a wash), and other little things that have stunted his growth.
However, now he has no choice but to produce. There are no more excuses for him to make. He's out of them.
Also, I'm kinda just playing devil's advocate here b/c if we did make the Hornets trade, and then spun Brown to Detroit in a sign and trade for Wallace, followed by a signing of, let's say, Drew Gooden, I'd absolutely love that. I'm just trying to stick up for Tyson b/c I do like him.
Of course, how could I remember the Bulls trying everything to land the guy who averaged 3 points in 11 minutes....
And I have no clue what you mean with the 4th season/6th season thing. Am I wrong? No. In O'Neals 5th season, he finally got PT in Indiana and blossomed. Tyson Chandler has received ample PT in 5 season with the Bulls and has yet to do much.
Jermaine O'Neal ALWAYS has good low post moves. His mental immaturity and selfishness held him back on the Blazers. And don't act like Jermaine O'Neal never had any troubles either. We give Tyson all the excuses..."he got bad advice from his agent"..."he was injured"...give me a break. O'Neal only played 36 games in 98/99 and got 9 mpg. The next season, 12 mpg. Chandler never got less than 19.6 mpg in his career and hes yet to amount to anything. In 4 years, O'Neal started 18 TOTAL games with Portland. Chandler started 31 his rookie year. The only thing I give credit to Chandler for is being a good rebounder. Le
The comparisons are pointless and so is the hope. Brand for Chandler = worst deal in Bulls history.
Posted by: dasox24 Jul 2 2006, 11:45 PM
QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 2 2006, 11:07 PM)
Brand for Chandler = worst deal in Bulls history
That is something I can definitely agree with.
Oh, and the whole 4th/6th year thing got a little complicated, but I just wanted to point out that it's possible Chandler could still show more than he has. Basically, they would only be 1 year apart in "breakout" years.
Posted by: soxfan101 Jul 3 2006, 12:18 AM
Yeah the O'Neal CHandler thing shows nothing considering Chandler always got playing time here where O'Neal was blocked in Portland and basicly contributed as soon as he got playing time.
Posted by: HardWorkin'Hinrich Jul 3 2006, 01:11 AM
Chandler also needs to seriously show up like 30lbs heavier this season. But I just dont think he has the type of body like that. His metabolism must be lightning quick.
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 3 2006, 01:47 AM
QUOTE (dasox24 @ Jul 2 2006, 08:22 PM)
I really want to give Chandler another year to try to prove something unless we get rid of him for KG. Otherwise, I want to see how he does this year.
Btw, didn't Jermaine O'Neal take 5-6 years until he actually did something worth noting in the league? Now look at what kind of player he is. Who knows if Chandler will ever amount to that (probably not), but there's always that chance. And, it's a chance I'm willing to take.
Also, for those of you worried about how much Tyson gets called for fouls, I don't think he'd have to worry as much with a guy like Ben Wallace playing next to him. He'd be much more free to roam around w/ Ben as our first line of defense and Chandler coming over to help, rather than Chandler having to be that guy who has to make the initial contact. We all know Wallace gets away with a lot of calls, and I think Chandler would benefit from having him be the guy that goes after anyone attacking the rim, which would allow Chandler to come over to help and get more blocks.
Btw, didn't Jermaine O'Neal take 5-6 years until he actually did something worth noting in the league? Now look at what kind of player he is. Who knows if Chandler will ever amount to that (probably not), but there's always that chance. And, it's a chance I'm willing to take.
Also, for those of you worried about how much Tyson gets called for fouls, I don't think he'd have to worry as much with a guy like Ben Wallace playing next to him. He'd be much more free to roam around w/ Ben as our first line of defense and Chandler coming over to help, rather than Chandler having to be that guy who has to make the initial contact. We all know Wallace gets away with a lot of calls, and I think Chandler would benefit from having him be the guy that goes after anyone attacking the rim, which would allow Chandler to come over to help and get more blocks.
But in O'Neals case, he wasn't really getting minutes in Portland so that really limited his growth. Portland was a top team competing for titles with the Lakers and really had no place for the young Jermaine O'Neal. He got some minutes, but he didn't get near the experience and playing time that Chandler has gotten.
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 3 2006, 01:49 AM
QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 2 2006, 09:07 PM)
Of course, how could I remember the Bulls trying everything to land the guy who averaged 3 points in 11 minutes....
And I have no clue what you mean with the 4th season/6th season thing. Am I wrong? No. In O'Neals 5th season, he finally got PT in Indiana and blossomed. Tyson Chandler has received ample PT in 5 season with the Bulls and has yet to do much.
Jermaine O'Neal ALWAYS has good low post moves. His mental immaturity and selfishness held him back on the Blazers. And don't act like Jermaine O'Neal never had any troubles either. We give Tyson all the excuses..."he got bad advice from his agent"..."he was injured"...give me a break. O'Neal only played 36 games in 98/99 and got 9 mpg. The next season, 12 mpg. Chandler never got less than 19.6 mpg in his career and hes yet to amount to anything. In 4 years, O'Neal started 18 TOTAL games with Portland. Chandler started 31 his rookie year. The only thing I give credit to Chandler for is being a good rebounder. Le
The comparisons are pointless and so is the hope. Brand for Chandler = worst deal in Bulls history.
And I have no clue what you mean with the 4th season/6th season thing. Am I wrong? No. In O'Neals 5th season, he finally got PT in Indiana and blossomed. Tyson Chandler has received ample PT in 5 season with the Bulls and has yet to do much.
Jermaine O'Neal ALWAYS has good low post moves. His mental immaturity and selfishness held him back on the Blazers. And don't act like Jermaine O'Neal never had any troubles either. We give Tyson all the excuses..."he got bad advice from his agent"..."he was injured"...give me a break. O'Neal only played 36 games in 98/99 and got 9 mpg. The next season, 12 mpg. Chandler never got less than 19.6 mpg in his career and hes yet to amount to anything. In 4 years, O'Neal started 18 TOTAL games with Portland. Chandler started 31 his rookie year. The only thing I give credit to Chandler for is being a good rebounder. Le
The comparisons are pointless and so is the hope. Brand for Chandler = worst deal in Bulls history.
When the Bulls wanted to get O'Neal, he was flashing a few signs but I dont' think anyone really expected him to turn into the player he did today. There was just as much of a shot of him totally bellying up like when the Lakers acquired Kwame Brown from the Wizards.
O'Neal didn't emerge till he joined the Pacers and was really able to play (although I vaguely remember him starting to show some sort of game late in his final season with the Blazers, but he really rarely played).
Posted by: southsider2k5 Jul 3 2006, 09:13 AM
I don't know if this is a domino type of deal, but in a vaccuum it sucks.
Posted by: BuLLzDoMaIn Jul 3 2006, 09:41 AM
IF chandler gains alot of pounds i think we should wait to see what he does. but if he shows up the same....... I think its time for him to go.
Posted by: ChWRoCk2 Jul 3 2006, 11:43 AM
QUOTE (BuLLzDoMaIn @ Jul 3 2006, 11:34 AM)
IF chandler gains alot of pounds i think we should wait to see what he does. but if he shows up the same....... I think its time for him to go.
If you get Big Ben he should go, Wallace will play the majority of the game with Sweets behind him. Id love to see Tyson and Wallace on D, something tells me they could click but PJ Brown scores more points even though he only averages about 9 a game.
Only problem I have with this is that PJ Brown is in his thirtys and if were gonna have him for a year or two might as well just call the deal off, the thing in this trade that wins me over is JR Smith, he can be an absolute stud on our team. And I like to watch his dunks.
This trade can go either way, something tells me Pax is throwin Tysons name in the air to see if he can catch a breeze of interest.
Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 3 2006, 12:34 PM
QUOTE (ChWRoCk2 @ Jul 3 2006, 12:36 PM)
Only problem I have with this is that PJ Brown is in his thirtys and if were gonna have him for a year or two might as well just call the deal off, the thing in this trade that wins me over is JR Smith, he can be an absolute stud on our team. And I like to watch his dunks.
I think you're looking at this deal totally in the wrong way. Brown is a proven PF/C at the NBA level. He is a leader and he has skill. He is Antonio Davis, but a better player. He can definitely score, he's averaged over 10 ppg in quite a few season in hiis career, but he was never a #1 option, so hit totals aren't as high as they could be. He is polished down low, and with his veteran leadership and knowledge of the game, he could help out or young guys down low in Thomas and Sweetney. He want to win a title and he'll do whatever he is asked to do...thats always been a staple with Brown. He's a good guy and a good player. And,we would only have him for 1 year (9 mil), which would save us some cap room in the future to resign Kirk, Luol, Noc, and Ben. This trade makes complete sense for the Bulls. It makes even more sense if Big Ben comes to Chicago.
Looking at JR Smith, he has a lot of talent and athletic ability, but he won't receive to much playing time in Chicago. That's what he complained about in NO, and if h was here, he'd complain about it again. BUT....Scott Skiles is the type of coach who could straighten a guy like that out and bring the best out of him.
Honestly, I have no clue what could happen. I can only hope that Ben Wallace signs with the Bulls and that this trade goes down. If it does, I wouldn't be surprised to see another deal involving Brown and/or Smith.
Posted by: Clifton Pondexter Jul 3 2006, 12:39 PM
Get rid of Chandler now. The guy has back issues at 23. They haven't invented a game short enough for him not to be in foul trouble. He can't score down low. He's a great defender and decent rebounder, but that said, game after game how many times does he have more fouls than points and snags about 5 rebounds? That's not worth the money on his contract. Let some other team wait for him to play up to his potential, and free up some cap space for basketball players not projects.
Posted by: allbullz Jul 3 2006, 12:53 PM
I'd applaud any deal that trades Chandler and that undeserved contract away from here. The kid does have a great attitude and can rebound and block a little but NOTHING else. He can't shoot from the perimeter, can't shoot free throws, has no low post moves of any kind, can't finish at the basket whether it's on a fast break or off an offensive rebound and gets into foul trouble early and often. Why that's worth keeping, I have no idea.
Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 3 2006, 01:04 PM
Welcome aboard to the both of you! 
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 3 2006, 01:22 PM
QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 3 2006, 07:06 AM)
I don't know if this is a domino type of deal, but in a vaccuum it sucks.
The talk is that the Bulls either do that after getting Big Ben cause they get more scoring or this is part of a sign and trade with Brown (and possibly Smith) both going to Detroit for Wallace.
We get Wallace and than still have pretty much a max contract left to hand out this year (or we could divide that up to two other people) and add two more players to go with Ben.
People like Pyrzbilla, Harrington, Gooden, Nazr, etc.
Think of it this way, what if:
Detroit gets: Jr Smith and PJ Brown (expiring contract Detroit wants)
New Orleans gets: Tyson Chandler and Malik Allen
Bulls get: Ben Wallace (4yr 13 or 14 mill; but counting 12 mill against the cap this year)
Bulls than have about 12 mill left in FA and offer up about 6 mill (just over the exemption) for Pyrzbilla per year and than about that same amount for Drew Gooden.
Drew Gooden, Joel Pyrzbilla, and Ben Wallace = major upgrade over Tyson Chandler, Malik Allen and Darius Songalia
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 3 2006, 01:24 PM
QUOTE (Clifton Pondexter @ Jul 3 2006, 10:32 AM)
Get rid of Chandler now. The guy has back issues at 23. They haven't invented a game short enough for him not to be in foul trouble. He can't score down low. He's a great defender and decent rebounder, but that said, game after game how many times does he have more fouls than points and snags about 5 rebounds? That's not worth the money on his contract. Let some other team wait for him to play up to his potential, and free up some cap space for basketball players not projects.
Welcome aboard...Great to have another Bulls fan over here
I agree with moving Chandler for a lot of the reasons you gave, although his back injury is in the past (he's strengthened his core and thats not an issue). However, why pay 12 mill a year long term when you can get a similar player in Pyrzbilla (if thats what Pax wants) for 6 mill per (probably a year or two less as well) or go after a guy like Ben Wallace (who gets paid about the same, but is infinetly better).
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 3 2006, 01:25 PM
QUOTE (allbullz @ Jul 3 2006, 10:46 AM)
I'd applaud any deal that trades Chandler and that undeserved contract away from here. The kid does have a great attitude and can rebound and block a little but NOTHING else. He can't shoot from the perimeter, can't shoot free throws, has no low post moves of any kind, can't finish at the basket whether it's on a fast break or off an offensive rebound and gets into foul trouble early and often. Why that's worth keeping, I have no idea.
We upgrade with a better kind of Chanlder (Ben Wallace) and than go find a scorer when we move Chandler's contract.
I think thats a winning idea and its what Pax is banking on. Of course this could all blow up in the Bulls face if Ben Wall stays in Detroit. I really think Wallace is the key to this off-season.
Thats not to say there isn't a plan B, but Plan A is a whole lot better.
By the way, welcome aboard
Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 3 2006, 01:26 PM
QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 3 2006, 02:15 PM)
The talk is that the Bulls either do that after getting Big Ben cause they get more scoring or this is part of a sign and trade with Brown (and possibly Smith) both going to Detroit for Wallace.
We get Wallace and than still have pretty much a max contract left to hand out this year (or we could divide that up to two other people) and add two more players to go with Ben.
People like Pyrzbilla, Harrington, Gooden, Nazr, etc.
Think of it this way, what if:
Detroit gets: Jr Smith and PJ Brown (expiring contract Detroit wants)
New Orleans gets: Tyson Chandler and Malik Allen
Bulls get: Ben Wallace (4yr 13 or 14 mill; but counting 12 mill against the cap this year)
Bulls than have about 12 mill left in FA and offer up about 6 mill (just over the exemption) for Pyrzbilla per year and than about that same amount for Drew Gooden.
Drew Gooden, Joel Pyrzbilla, and Ben Wallace = major upgrade over Tyson Chandler, Malik Allen and Darius Songalia
We get Wallace and than still have pretty much a max contract left to hand out this year (or we could divide that up to two other people) and add two more players to go with Ben.
People like Pyrzbilla, Harrington, Gooden, Nazr, etc.
Think of it this way, what if:
Detroit gets: Jr Smith and PJ Brown (expiring contract Detroit wants)
New Orleans gets: Tyson Chandler and Malik Allen
Bulls get: Ben Wallace (4yr 13 or 14 mill; but counting 12 mill against the cap this year)
Bulls than have about 12 mill left in FA and offer up about 6 mill (just over the exemption) for Pyrzbilla per year and than about that same amount for Drew Gooden.
Drew Gooden, Joel Pyrzbilla, and Ben Wallace = major upgrade over Tyson Chandler, Malik Allen and Darius Songalia
I totally agree. That is one great scenario for the Bulls, I'd love for it to play out like so. But what I am hearing, is that the 3-way would go:
Bulls Get: Ben Wallace
Hornets Get: Tyson Chandler
Pistons Get: PJ Brown, Malik Allen, JR Smith
But either way, the Bulls get their guy and clear up some room. Gooden and Pryz would only make it that much sweeter.
PG: Hinrich, Duhon
SG: Sefolosha, Gordon
SF: Deng, Nocioni
PF: Gooden, Thomas, Sweetney
C: Wallace, Pryzbilla
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 3 2006, 01:33 PM
QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 3 2006, 11:19 AM)
I totally agree. That is one great scenario for the Bulls, I'd love for it to play out like so. But what I am hearing, is that the 3-way would go:
Bulls Get: Ben Wallace
Hornets Get: Tyson Chandler
Pistons Get: PJ Brown, Malik Allen, JR Smith
But either way, the Bulls get their guy and clear up some room. Gooden and Pryz would only make it that much sweeter.
PG: Hinrich, Duhon
SG: Sefolosha, Gordon
SF: Deng, Nocioni
PF: Gooden, Thomas, Sweetney
C: Wallace, Pryzbilla
Bulls Get: Ben Wallace
Hornets Get: Tyson Chandler
Pistons Get: PJ Brown, Malik Allen, JR Smith
But either way, the Bulls get their guy and clear up some room. Gooden and Pryz would only make it that much sweeter.
PG: Hinrich, Duhon
SG: Sefolosha, Gordon
SF: Deng, Nocioni
PF: Gooden, Thomas, Sweetney
C: Wallace, Pryzbilla
Keeping Smith is even better because it gives the Bulls Gordon at the 2 guard as the smaller/quicker pure scorer. Smith is a pretty big guy whose a tremendous athlete that can score and has a solid shot (just needs to learn when to shoot and when not to as well as work on his defense) and than Sefolosha whose the defensive stopper for the bigger 2's and could also get some minutes at the 3 and run the point if necessary.
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 3 2006, 01:36 PM
By the way, it should be noted that no trade can go down until FA begins. The period between July 1 and July 12 has a moretorum of sorts and no deals can officially be made (they can be done, but they won't fully go through).
Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 3 2006, 01:39 PM
QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 3 2006, 02:29 PM)
By the way, it should be noted that no trade can go down until FA begins. The period between July 1 and July 12 has a moretorum of sorts and no deals can officially be made (they can be done, but they won't fully go through).
Yeah, Chandler still has the BYC tag until Free Agency officially starts July 12th. Thats when all the contracts will be signed and all deals will become official.
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 3 2006, 01:40 PM
And if that Charlotte guy is right this deal is going down regardless of whether Ben Wall comes to the Bulls. Pax may just be holding out for a draft pick as well or something else.
Posted by: dasox24 Jul 3 2006, 02:48 PM
QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 3 2006, 01:15 PM)
Think of it this way, what if:
Detroit gets: Jr Smith and PJ Brown (expiring contract Detroit wants)
New Orleans gets: Tyson Chandler and Malik Allen
Bulls get: Ben Wallace (4yr 13 or 14 mill; but counting 12 mill against the cap this year)
Bulls than have about 12 mill left in FA and offer up about 6 mill (just over the exemption) for Pyrzbilla per year and than about that same amount for Drew Gooden.
Drew Gooden, Joel Pyrzbilla, and Ben Wallace = major upgrade over Tyson Chandler, Malik Allen and Darius Songalia
Detroit gets: Jr Smith and PJ Brown (expiring contract Detroit wants)
New Orleans gets: Tyson Chandler and Malik Allen
Bulls get: Ben Wallace (4yr 13 or 14 mill; but counting 12 mill against the cap this year)
Bulls than have about 12 mill left in FA and offer up about 6 mill (just over the exemption) for Pyrzbilla per year and than about that same amount for Drew Gooden.
Drew Gooden, Joel Pyrzbilla, and Ben Wallace = major upgrade over Tyson Chandler, Malik Allen and Darius Songalia
This is exactly the type of thing that I envisioned at the thought of us making this trade. If we could add Gooden and Pryz, I'd be fine with letting Tyson go. If we were to make this trade, and then not get anyone but say Pryz, I'd be thoroughly pissed off.
Posted by: The Gladiator Jul 3 2006, 02:50 PM
PG Hinrich 12 ppg 8 apg 3-4 rpg
SG Gordon 20.1 ppg 1 rpg
SF Deng 15.7 ppg 8 rpg
PF Murphy 11.1 ppg 5 rpg
C Wallace 6 ppg 10 rpg
That would be awesome
Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 3 2006, 02:54 PM
I'd take Gooden, Boozer, and Wilcox over Murphy.
Posted by: The Gladiator Jul 3 2006, 02:57 PM
QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 3 2006, 02:47 PM)
I'd take Gooden, Boozer, and Wilcox over Murphy.
Idk, how much do you think we'd have to give up to get Boozer? Id rather have boozer to.
Posted by: GreatScott82 Jul 3 2006, 03:42 PM
Do you guys think the Bulls will keep Chandler if we won't be able to sign Wallace?
Posted by: The Gladiator Jul 3 2006, 03:49 PM
QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jul 3 2006, 03:35 PM)
Do you guys think the Bulls will keep Chandler if we won't be able to sign Wallace?
Yes
Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 3 2006, 03:53 PM
QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jul 3 2006, 04:35 PM)
Do you guys think the Bulls will keep Chandler if we won't be able to sign Wallace?
If Ben Wallace is not signed by the Bulls, then I think Chandler will remain a Bull. So, yes.
Posted by: The Gladiator Jul 3 2006, 04:02 PM
What are the chances Big Ben SIgns with us you think?
I say 90%- I think hes fed up with Detroit. He says his meeting with Skiles and Pax went quote "Real Good".
Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 3 2006, 04:05 PM
QUOTE (The Gladiator @ Jul 3 2006, 04:55 PM)
What are the chances Big Ben SIgns with us you think?
I say 90%- I think hes fed up with Detroit. He says his meeting with Skiles and Pax went quote "Real Good".
I say 90%- I think hes fed up with Detroit. He says his meeting with Skiles and Pax went quote "Real Good".
50-50 Chance. Sure he said the meeting went real good but you just never know in Free Agency.
He could be using the Bulls to get more money from Detroit. He could be holding out for a sign & trade. He could be waiting for another team to enter the picture. Or, he might simply be going for the most money.
Don't forget, he said that the whole Flip Saunder's thign was blown out of proportion.
Posted by: The Gladiator Jul 3 2006, 04:09 PM
QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 3 2006, 03:58 PM)
50-50 Chance. Sure he said the meeting went real good but you just never know in Free Agency.
He could be using the Bulls to get more money from Detroit. He could be holding out for a sign & trade. He could be waiting for another team to enter the picture. Or, he might simply be going for the most money.
Don't forget, he said that the whole Flip Saunder's thign was blown out of proportion.
He could be using the Bulls to get more money from Detroit. He could be holding out for a sign & trade. He could be waiting for another team to enter the picture. Or, he might simply be going for the most money.
Don't forget, he said that the whole Flip Saunder's thign was blown out of proportion.
True, I think that Detroit offers another deal to Wallace and the Bulls will offer that 60 million for 4 year deal after that proposal and I think that deal would sweep Big Ben off his feet. IMO if I had to guess, Ben is going for the most money. But your right, you just never know.
Posted by: GreatScott82 Jul 3 2006, 04:16 PM
I just hope the Bulls aren't being used by Wallace to help him get more money in Detroit. I know thats how the whole free agency process works and all, but Wallace should seriously consider coming to Chicago. THe fans would embrace him and his hard work ethic like we did with Rodman in the glory days.
Posted by: soxfan101 Jul 3 2006, 04:22 PM
I dont think the Pistons can offer any more money to Wallace....
Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 3 2006, 04:22 PM
QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jul 3 2006, 05:09 PM)
I just hope the Bulls aren't being used by Wallace to help him get more money in Detroit. I know thats how the whole free agency process works and all, but Wallace should seriously consider coming to Chicago. THe fans would embrace him and his hard work ethic like we did with Rodman in the glory days.
Hey GS, would you mind making your sig a bit smaller? It's pretty big. If you'd like me to resize it, I can.
Posted by: soxfan101 Jul 3 2006, 04:24 PM
QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 3 2006, 04:15 PM)
Hey GS, would you mind making your sig a bit smaller? It's pretty big. If you'd like me to resize it, I can.
booooh dictatorship!
Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 3 2006, 04:30 PM
QUOTE (soxfan101 @ Jul 3 2006, 05:17 PM)
booooh dictatorship!
Haha, it's like 500x300.
it will make for faster browsing.
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 3 2006, 06:27 PM
QUOTE (The Gladiator @ Jul 3 2006, 01:42 PM)
Yes
Nope, I think Pyrzbilla will be here for sure if we don't sign Wallace and Chandler is out of here regardless.
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 3 2006, 06:28 PM
QUOTE (soxfan101 @ Jul 3 2006, 02:15 PM)
I dont think the Pistons can offer any more money to Wallace....
They can offer him more, but I don't know if they will.
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 3 2006, 07:42 PM
The Hornets source is now saying this signing finalizes the proposed Hornets and Bulls trade involving Brown and Jr Smith.
Could the Bulls than take Brown and deal his expiring contract for a more valuable big man, that may be the plan (this last sentence is me making some assumptions). Brown may end up being more valuable to another team than say Chandler.
Maybe the Wolves or Pacers have told the Bulls give us Deng, Duhon and someone that will allow us to free up cap space as well as the rights to the Knicks pick next year and you got yourself a deal.
Than we keep JR Smith who helps out with depth on the wings with the loss of a guy like Deng. Just throwing something out there.
Either way I'm all jacked up right now.
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 3 2006, 08:20 PM
Here is the latest info from Hornets report:
QUOTE
1) JR Smith isn't wanted by many teams, including the Bulls (that's not to say that he wont still be packaged in the deal)
QUOTE
3) Bottom line: The Bulls want PJ and the Hornets want Chandler
QUOTE
5) Arvydas Macijauskas will be traded and could be involved in the Bulls trade, possibly instead of JR. If not, he could be packaged with some of our other expiring contracts of veteran players to a team that wants cap relief.
QUOTE
7) Back to the Bulls trade, as I said a couple days back, I was very confident that once Ben Wallace was signed, our Bulls trade would go through (at the very least invovling the two principle players--PJ and Tyson). I stand by my words.
8) If for some reason PJ is not involved in that trade, don't expect him to leave. I also want to add that PJ and Byron are very close and that PJ must approve of the trade before he is shipped out. I don't foresee any problems there.
9) John Paxson has talked to a few teams regarding Tyson Chandler and he does have some other teams vying for his services as well. Most importantly, however, is that Paxson feels PJ is exactly the PF and classy veteran they need to groom Tyrus Thomas and go far into the playoffs. I think PJ is still there best bet.
10) I expect the Bulls trade to happen by tomorrow at the latest but most likely tonight.
8) If for some reason PJ is not involved in that trade, don't expect him to leave. I also want to add that PJ and Byron are very close and that PJ must approve of the trade before he is shipped out. I don't foresee any problems there.
9) John Paxson has talked to a few teams regarding Tyson Chandler and he does have some other teams vying for his services as well. Most importantly, however, is that Paxson feels PJ is exactly the PF and classy veteran they need to groom Tyrus Thomas and go far into the playoffs. I think PJ is still there best bet.
10) I expect the Bulls trade to happen by tomorrow at the latest but most likely tonight.
Thought I'd share all this. The gist is that we don't really want JR and could obviously package him elsewhere. Instead we may be asking for Arvydas' and don't ask me a thing about him cause I couldn't tell you since I didn't watch many Hornets games, but it sounds like he's a decent enough player with some upside.
As far as PJ Brown goes, according to this Pax wants him here to groom Tyrus Thomas, but I wonder about that, couldn't Ben Wall help groom him (he's a proven vet).
Posted by: soxfan101 Jul 3 2006, 08:36 PM
I dont know why we wouldnt want JR Smith... he has tremendous upside... and at worse could be part of another deal.
Posted by: soxfan101 Jul 3 2006, 08:37 PM
also since Paxson is so into athletes JR Smith definitely fits that too... just felt like adding that as well.
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 3 2006, 08:37 PM
QUOTE (soxfan101 @ Jul 3 2006, 06:29 PM)
I dont know why we wouldnt want JR Smith... he has tremendous upside... and at worse could be part of another deal.
I agree with that. On the other hand he has complained about not getting enough minutes and if we know one thing about Skiles he's not about to hand anyone anything. I think Pax and Scott know after the Tim Thomas fiasco that they need to be careful and make sure they get players (hopefully talented ones) who are willing to work hard and do all thats asked of them because Skiles doesn't give anyone leeway and he expects everyone to show up and practice and do there work.
Posted by: soxfan101 Jul 3 2006, 08:42 PM
Yeah but I think he will be able to get the minutes here... im sure we are going to have 2 trades go down this off-season. One thats hopefully this one with Chandler and another probably involving Deng or Nocioni with PJ Brown and maybe Duhon or the draft pick.... because we are still way overloaded at SF.
Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 3 2006, 11:26 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2508889
Posted by: WHarris1 Jul 3 2006, 11:47 PM
This deal seems done, just waiting till the 12th.
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 3 2006, 11:51 PM
QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jul 3 2006, 09:40 PM)
This deal seems done, just waiting till the 12th.
I will say this, I do really hope there is something else to this deal than us simply getting PJ Brown simply because we are getting reamed in the talent end of things.
Of course I also understand the whole 54 million being left on Chandlers contract over the next 5 years and the value of unloading that.
I like the idea of Brown and wouldn't generally mind JR Smith, but Smith really doesn't fit in here considering the amount of wing players we have and this deal actually hurts us cap wise this year.
Right now we are 5.5 mill under the cap and that gives this team enough to potentially go out and get Pyrzbilla, but maybe thats the ploy, sign Pyrzbilla (if we can) and than move Brown and if we can't get another big we keep Brown for his veteran leadership (plus he's still a solid player, I don't care how old he is).
The reason I mention Pyrzbilla is because i see both him and Chandler being relatively similar players and Pyrzbilla can be had for half of what Tys makes. Although he is a few years older.
Posted by: BFirebird Jul 4 2006, 12:08 AM
QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 3 2006, 11:44 PM)
I will say this, I do really hope there is something else to this deal than us simply getting PJ Brown simply because we are getting reamed in the talent end of things.
Of course I also understand the whole 54 million being left on Chandlers contract over the next 5 years and the value of unloading that.
I like the idea of Brown and wouldn't generally mind JR Smith, but Smith really doesn't fit in here considering the amount of wing players we have and this deal actually hurts us cap wise this year.
Right now we are 5.5 mill under the cap and that gives this team enough to potentially go out and get Pyrzbilla, but maybe thats the ploy, sign Pyrzbilla (if we can) and than move Brown and if we can't get another big we keep Brown for his veteran leadership (plus he's still a solid player, I don't care how old he is).
The reason I mention Pyrzbilla is because i see both him and Chandler being relatively similar players and Pyrzbilla can be had for half of what Tys makes. Although he is a few years older.
Of course I also understand the whole 54 million being left on Chandlers contract over the next 5 years and the value of unloading that.
I like the idea of Brown and wouldn't generally mind JR Smith, but Smith really doesn't fit in here considering the amount of wing players we have and this deal actually hurts us cap wise this year.
Right now we are 5.5 mill under the cap and that gives this team enough to potentially go out and get Pyrzbilla, but maybe thats the ploy, sign Pyrzbilla (if we can) and than move Brown and if we can't get another big we keep Brown for his veteran leadership (plus he's still a solid player, I don't care how old he is).
The reason I mention Pyrzbilla is because i see both him and Chandler being relatively similar players and Pyrzbilla can be had for half of what Tys makes. Although he is a few years older.
The thing I like about this whole trade is getting rid of Chandler's contract...trading bad contract for bad contract and the fact that no matter what the Bulls are only stuck with PJ for 1 year max. Smith is an extra bonus I guess but does not really fit and maybe someone would want him and could get something useful for him.
Posted by: soxfan101 Jul 4 2006, 12:13 AM
Smith is very talented.... and if we trade Deng we could groom him to be the future star of the team. He has been one of my favorite players to watch and i was ticked to see he wasnt getting minutes for the hornets anymore thanks to their coach. I have a feeling that there will be another trade for the Bulls this off-season besides this one so going to be fun to watch.
Posted by: hammerhead johnson Jul 4 2006, 02:02 AM
QUOTE (Clifton Pondexter @ Jul 3 2006, 12:32 PM)
Let some other team wait for him to play up to his potential, and free up some cap space for basketball players not projects.
Yeah, let the Spurs have him. Or better yet, let him go to the Cavs and play with Lebron. At least on those teams, you have coaches who know what they're doing.
But I couldn't be happier with the Wallace acquisition. Ben has been one of my favorite players in this league for a while now.
Chandler is like the equivalent of a major stud pitching prospect in baseball. Those guys eventually become major championship pieces. You don't just give up on that type of defensive upside. It's ridiculous.
But whatever, who am I to argue with 95% of our fanbase.
Posted by: BigBen Jul 4 2006, 02:11 AM
QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jul 4 2006, 01:55 AM)
Yeah, let the Spurs have him. Or better yet, let him go to the Cavs and play with Lebron. At least on those teams, you have coaches who know what they're doing.
But I couldn't be happier with the Wallace acquisition. Ben has been one of my favorite players in this league for a while now.
Chandler is like the equivalent of a major stud pitching prospect in baseball. Those guys eventually become major championship pieces. You don't just give up on that type of defensive upside. It's ridiculous.
But whatever, who am I to argue with 95% of our fanbase.
But I couldn't be happier with the Wallace acquisition. Ben has been one of my favorite players in this league for a while now.
Chandler is like the equivalent of a major stud pitching prospect in baseball. Those guys eventually become major championship pieces. You don't just give up on that type of defensive upside. It's ridiculous.
But whatever, who am I to argue with 95% of our fanbase.
If Chandler is like the equivalent of a major stud pitching prospect in baseball, he's Scott Ruffcorn or Jon Rauch. The guy has to be one of the weakest 7'1" players in the history of the NBA. 7'1" and he can't even score to save his life. What a waste of that height. Chandler dug his own hole by playing like a pussy, don't blame the coaching staff. And stud prospects don't earn the insane money that Tyson is.
Regardless, now that we have Big Ben we need a scoring big man to complement him. That would definately not be Tyson. The sad thing is that P.J. Brown probably isn't even a downgrade from Chandler and we get J.R. Smith as a throw-in. And dumping an extremely overpaid and overrated player is nice.
Posted by: BigBen Jul 4 2006, 02:22 AM
http://www.nba.com/news/305671.html
This deal HAS to be going through if they put it up on NBA.com.
Posted by: hammerhead johnson Jul 4 2006, 02:29 AM
QUOTE (BigBen @ Jul 4 2006, 02:04 AM)
If Chandler is like the equivalent of a major stud pitching prospect in baseball, he's Scott Ruffcorn or Jon Rauch. The guy has to be one of the weakest 7'1" players in the history of the NBA. 7'1" and he can't even score to save his life. What a waste of that height. Chandler dug his own hole by playing like a pussy, don't blame the coaching staff.
The scoring doesn't matter. There is not a 7'0 player in this league who is anywhere near as quick as Tyson is. And then you have to take into account his attitude, work ethic, heart, etc. He's gonna go somehwere and thrive out of the PF slot. In my mind, there is no question that he will turn out to be a major rebounding/shot-altering force in this league. But then again, I'm one of the few fans that you will find who actually has patience along with a 'defense rules all' philosophy. Never on my worst day would I give up on a guy with such upside.
Posted by: BigBen Jul 4 2006, 02:30 AM
QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jul 4 2006, 02:22 AM)
The scoring doesn't matter. There is not a 7'0 player in this league who is anywhere near as quick as Tyson is. And then you have to take into account his attitude, work ethic, heart, etc. He's gonna go somehwere and thrive out of the PF slot. In my mind, there is no question that he will turn out to be a major rebounding/shot-altering force in this league. But then again, I'm one of the few fans that you will find who actually has patience along with a 'defense rules all' philosophy. Never on my worst day would I give up on a guy with such upside.
My patience ended when he got a fat contract and didn't produce. His numbers don't match his salary, period.
Every year we have heard the same garbage about Curry and Chandler and their big futures since they were drafted. Neither has panned out like they were supposed to. All we ended up doing is losing out on a true stud in Brand.
The fan base has soured on Tyson but so has Paxson. That definately says something about Chandler. Paxson realizes his mistake in signing him to that huge deal and is getting rid of his mistake.
Posted by: hammerhead johnson Jul 4 2006, 02:37 AM
QUOTE (BigBen @ Jul 4 2006, 02:15 AM)
http://www.nba.com/news/305671.html
This deal HAS to be going through if they put it up on NBA.com.
This deal HAS to be going through if they put it up on NBA.com.
Well, if this is true, then the Hornets just became my second favorite team in the NBA. I'm definitely a Chris Paul fan. Peja ain't exactly one of my guys, but he'll provide solid shooting from the outside. David West projects out to be a quality bench player. Bobby Jackson is a nice bench player too.
I still need time to observe this year's draft picks, though.
Posted by: BigBen Jul 4 2006, 02:40 AM
QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jul 4 2006, 02:30 AM)
Well, if this is true, then the Hornets just became my second favorite team in the NBA. I'm definitely a Chris Paul fan. Peja ain't exactly one of my guys, but he'll provide solid shooting from the outside. David West projects out to be a quality bench player. Bobby Jackson is a nice bench player too.
I still need time to observe this year's draft picks, though.
I still need time to observe this year's draft picks, though.
I still don't even understand our draft. Are the Bulls hoping that Tyrus Thomas grows an inch or two and gains 30 pounds so he can play PF or do they see him as a SF? If they see Tyrus as a SF, what is wrong with Deng? We will need a PF to replace P.J. Brown after this upcoming season.
If we do end up trading Chandler for P.J. Brown and J.R. Smith, Aldridge still seems like he would have been the right pick for now and the future. It seems like the Bulls just went for the guy with superstar upside, regardless of the positional need.
Posted by: hammerhead johnson Jul 4 2006, 02:42 AM
QUOTE (BigBen @ Jul 4 2006, 02:23 AM)
Every year we have heard the same garbage about Curry and Chandler and their big futures since they were drafted. Neither has panned out like they were supposed to. All we ended up doing is losing out on a true stud in Brand.
There is an enormous difference between Curry and Chandler, though. One of them actually wants to win. I had Curry down as a complete stroke early on in his Bulls career. Chandler is the dude with the legendary defensive upside.
Like I said before, it's all about having patience when it comes to top level defensive prospects, especially dudes at 7'0 plus with elite quickness and a will to win.
Posted by: hammerhead johnson Jul 4 2006, 02:45 AM
QUOTE (BigBen @ Jul 4 2006, 02:33 AM)
I still don't even understand our draft. Are the Bulls hoping that Tyrus Thomas grows an inch or two and gains 30 pounds so he can play PF or do they see him as a SF? If they see Tyrus as a SF, what is wrong with Deng? We will need a PF to replace P.J. Brown after this upcoming season.
If we do end up trading Chandler for P.J. Brown and J.R. Smith, Aldridge still seems like he would have been the right pick for now and the future. It seems like the Bulls just went for the guy with superstar upside, regardless of the positional need.
If we do end up trading Chandler for P.J. Brown and J.R. Smith, Aldridge still seems like he would have been the right pick for now and the future. It seems like the Bulls just went for the guy with superstar upside, regardless of the positional need.
I have no problem with the Tyrus Thomas pick. He has 1st Team Defender written all over him. He's gonna be a major championship piece, in time.
I'd be looking to trade Deng right now, despite the fact that he projects out to be an elite mid-range scoring threat. There's just no room for him with Tyrus on board. He doesn't have SG foot speed, and he'd be a joke out of the 4.
I could (obviously) live with Chandler and Deng for Kevin Garnett.
Posted by: Rowand44 Jul 4 2006, 02:47 AM
QUOTE (soxfan101 @ Jul 4 2006, 12:06 AM)
Smith is very talented.... and if we trade Deng we could groom him to be the future star of the team. He has been one of my favorite players to watch and i was ticked to see he wasnt getting minutes for the hornets anymore thanks to their coach. I have a feeling that there will be another trade for the Bulls this off-season besides this one so going to be fun to watch.
Lu>>>>>>JR Smith.
Posted by: BigBen Jul 4 2006, 02:48 AM
QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jul 4 2006, 02:35 AM)
There is an enormous difference between Curry and Chandler, though. One of them actually wants to win. I had Curry down as a complete stroke early on in his Bulls career. Chandler is the dude with the legendary defensive upside.
Like I said before, it's all about having patience when it comes to top level defensive prospects, especially dudes at 7'0 plus with elite quickness and a will to win.
Like I said before, it's all about having patience when it comes to top level defensive prospects, especially dudes at 7'0 plus with elite quickness and a will to win.
Well, now that we have Wallace we actually couldn't and shouldn't have kept Chandler anyways. Two defense-first big men each with monstrous contracts seems like a bad idea -- it would be pretty sad if Sweetney was our best scoring big man next year.
Posted by: BigBen Jul 4 2006, 02:51 AM
QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 4 2006, 02:40 AM)
Lu>>>>>>JR Smith.
I hope he knows that. Right now, J.R. Smith is a crazy athlete with massive dunking ability but he can't shoot a lick. But Paxson saw all of last year that we had no athletic guys who could drive to the basket so he added (or will add) a few insane athletes in Wallace, Tyrus Thomas, and J.R. Smith.
Posted by: BigBen Jul 4 2006, 03:03 AM
Also looks like the Bulls will be throwing in Malik Allen.
Posted by: DBAH0 Jul 4 2006, 03:24 AM
I'll repost what I said on Soxtalk;
"If I'm Otis Smith, I try to sell John Paxson the idea of doing a DeShawn Stevenson for J.R Smith sign and trade deal. Stevenson doesn't look like he's going to re-sign with the Magic and he wants $4-5M a season for about 4.
The reason I suggest this and why I think it would make sense for the Bulls is because it would be beneficial for you to have a defensive stopper at SG, so you can let Ben Gordon become instant offense off the bench again. He's got the perfect size at 6'5 and I think it would make a lot of sense for both teams.
Don't know if I could see Smith and Gordon co-existing on the same team when they both play the same position."
Posted by: HoofHearted Jul 4 2006, 04:06 AM
Ive gotten over the T2 pick A LOT, since draft day, but let me say this, if Paxson makes this deal, there will no longer be any respect for him from me. I know yeah, he really cares about the respect of some shlub on his computer, but this deal, for lack of a better word, is retarded. Why not just trade him for a bag of potato chips, at least Sweetney will be happy with that.
Posted by: RememberThe90's Jul 4 2006, 09:07 AM
QUOTE (HoofHearted @ Jul 4 2006, 03:59 AM)
Why not just trade him for a bag of potato chips, at least Sweetney will be happy with that.
because P.J Brown has an attractive expiring contract.
Posted by: Tony82087 Jul 4 2006, 09:15 AM
Am I looking at this wrong when im sort of seeing this whole situation like the Pods-Carlos Lee deal for the Sox in 05?
Obviously,they got the more talented player, but it was really about getting financial flexibility in the future.
Posted by: The Gladiator Jul 4 2006, 09:18 AM
QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jul 4 2006, 09:08 AM)
Am I looking at this wrong when im sort of seeing this whole situation like the Pods-Carlos Lee deal for the Sox in 05?
Obviously,they got the more talented player, but it was really about getting financial flexibility in the future.
Obviously,they got the more talented player, but it was really about getting financial flexibility in the future.
No because Podsednik was an Allstar, PJ Brown is nothing more than a scrub off the bench.
Posted by: RememberThe90's Jul 4 2006, 09:23 AM
QUOTE (The Gladiator @ Jul 4 2006, 09:11 AM)
PJ Brown is nothing more than a scrub off the bench.
That scrub...Brown has a post game that Chandler only has in his wet dreams
Posted by: The Gladiator Jul 4 2006, 09:37 AM
QUOTE (RememberThe90's @ Jul 4 2006, 09:16 AM)
That scrub...Brown has a post game that Chandler only has in his wet dreams
Scoring is not everything man... Chandler out rebounds PJ Brown by almost 3 but doesnt score as much. Would you really want to trade for a guy that scores 3 points more than Tyson but 2 rebounds less? Lets not forget the fact that Tyson can block shots. This trade is stupid but I trust Pax
Posted by: TeaLeafReaderII Jul 4 2006, 10:34 AM
QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jul 4 2006, 09:08 AM)
Am I looking at this wrong when im sort of seeing this whole situation like the Pods-Carlos Lee deal for the Sox in 05?
Obviously,they got the more talented player, but it was really about getting financial flexibility in the future.
Obviously,they got the more talented player, but it was really about getting financial flexibility in the future.
WE DON'T NEED FINANCIAL FLEXIBILITY!!! The soft cap lets the Bulls secure their own players. What FA do you expect to be available that will be an upgrade over Kirk, Gordon, Noc, Deng, Thabo, Chandler, and Tyrus? Right now we are watching all the big name players gets locked up by their teams long term. Bulls are a big market team... they can afford the luxary tax.
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 4 2006, 10:48 AM
QUOTE (BigBen @ Jul 4 2006, 12:04 AM)
If Chandler is like the equivalent of a major stud pitching prospect in baseball, he's Scott Ruffcorn or Jon Rauch. The guy has to be one of the weakest 7'1" players in the history of the NBA. 7'1" and he can't even score to save his life. What a waste of that height. Chandler dug his own hole by playing like a pussy, don't blame the coaching staff. And stud prospects don't earn the insane money that Tyson is.
Regardless, now that we have Big Ben we need a scoring big man to complement him. That would definately not be Tyson. The sad thing is that P.J. Brown probably isn't even a downgrade from Chandler and we get J.R. Smith as a throw-in. And dumping an extremely overpaid and overrated player is nice.
Regardless, now that we have Big Ben we need a scoring big man to complement him. That would definately not be Tyson. The sad thing is that P.J. Brown probably isn't even a downgrade from Chandler and we get J.R. Smith as a throw-in. And dumping an extremely overpaid and overrated player is nice.
Welcome aboard Big Ben
I think the problem with Tys stemmed from last year where he took a major step backwards after having a pretty damn good season the year before (which earned him that big contract).
Had he not done that, who knows what would have happened. And I can't call him a Rauch due to attitude issues, but I'd say a Kip Wells type. A guy that has had some success, but its been mixed around with a lot of questionable performances as well.
Hopefully we don't get a Todd Ritchie back though
Posted by: RememberThe90's Jul 4 2006, 10:49 AM
QUOTE (The Gladiator @ Jul 4 2006, 09:30 AM)
Scoring is not everything man... Chandler out rebounds PJ Brown by almost 3 but doesnt score as much. Would you really want to trade for a guy that scores 3 points more than Tyson but 2 rebounds less? Lets not forget the fact that Tyson can block shots. This trade is stupid but I trust Pax
You can't look at just numbers.
Brown has a nice aresnal of low post moves. He is a threat to score under the basket.
Name me one low post move that Chandler has besides a put back 2 feet under the basket?
Bottom line...teams can cheat defensivley off Chandler where they would have to respect Brown.
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 4 2006, 10:50 AM
QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jul 4 2006, 12:30 AM)
Well, if this is true, then the Hornets just became my second favorite team in the NBA. I'm definitely a Chris Paul fan. Peja ain't exactly one of my guys, but he'll provide solid shooting from the outside. David West projects out to be a quality bench player. Bobby Jackson is a nice bench player too.
I still need time to observe this year's draft picks, though.
I still need time to observe this year's draft picks, though.
The Hornets are gonna have some expectations this year and Byron Scott will probably show why he's really not that good of a coach (although he did do a great job last year).
I don't necessarily think Pax is giving up on Tys, I'm starting to think its far more about the money and the Bulls ensuring themselves they don't go way over the luxury threshold next year when Hinrich is due a fat raise.
Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 4 2006, 10:51 AM
QUOTE (The Gladiator @ Jul 4 2006, 10:30 AM)
Scoring is not everything man... Chandler out rebounds PJ Brown by almost 3 but doesnt score as much. Would you really want to trade for a guy that scores 3 points more than Tyson but 2 rebounds less? Lets not forget the fact that Tyson can block shots.
Thats why we got Ben Wallace.
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 4 2006, 10:51 AM
QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jul 4 2006, 12:35 AM)
There is an enormous difference between Curry and Chandler, though. One of them actually wants to win. I had Curry down as a complete stroke early on in his Bulls career. Chandler is the dude with the legendary defensive upside.
Like I said before, it's all about having patience when it comes to top level defensive prospects, especially dudes at 7'0 plus with elite quickness and a will to win.
Like I said before, it's all about having patience when it comes to top level defensive prospects, especially dudes at 7'0 plus with elite quickness and a will to win.
If Curry had Chandlers attitude, he'd be a star in this league (assuming there is nothing wrong with his heart anymore).
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 4 2006, 10:53 AM
QUOTE (BigBen @ Jul 4 2006, 12:44 AM)
I hope he knows that. Right now, J.R. Smith is a crazy athlete with massive dunking ability but he can't shoot a lick. But Paxson saw all of last year that we had no athletic guys who could drive to the basket so he added (or will add) a few insane athletes in Wallace, Tyrus Thomas, and J.R. Smith.
Smith has a decent 3 point shot, but the problem is he takes a lot of garbage shots. He has had some attitude issues in New Orleans and Skiles doesn't usually work well with those type of guys but if they can mesh he could turn into a really nice player.
Smith definately is full of talent and could become a real nice scorer/slasher off the bench.
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 4 2006, 10:54 AM
QUOTE (DBAH0 @ Jul 4 2006, 01:17 AM)
I'll repost what I said on Soxtalk;
"If I'm Otis Smith, I try to sell John Paxson the idea of doing a DeShawn Stevenson for J.R Smith sign and trade deal. Stevenson doesn't look like he's going to re-sign with the Magic and he wants $4-5M a season for about 4.
The reason I suggest this and why I think it would make sense for the Bulls is because it would be beneficial for you to have a defensive stopper at SG, so you can let Ben Gordon become instant offense off the bench again. He's got the perfect size at 6'5 and I think it would make a lot of sense for both teams.
Don't know if I could see Smith and Gordon co-existing on the same team when they both play the same position."
"If I'm Otis Smith, I try to sell John Paxson the idea of doing a DeShawn Stevenson for J.R Smith sign and trade deal. Stevenson doesn't look like he's going to re-sign with the Magic and he wants $4-5M a season for about 4.
The reason I suggest this and why I think it would make sense for the Bulls is because it would be beneficial for you to have a defensive stopper at SG, so you can let Ben Gordon become instant offense off the bench again. He's got the perfect size at 6'5 and I think it would make a lot of sense for both teams.
Don't know if I could see Smith and Gordon co-existing on the same team when they both play the same position."
I think the Bulls are happy with Sef as the future defensive stopper at SG and may actually like the idea of Smith being a bigger offensive type guy.
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 4 2006, 12:39 PM
The latest has it being a 3 for 2 trade:
QUOTE
The trade as it now stands: PJ/JR/AM to CHI for TC/MA. I suppose it could change, but that is what we are hearing.
There is also mention of a potential 3rd team being involved and they did say that the Pistons could have some interest (if the Bulls opted to go with a sign and trade and obviously there is time to do something like that).
You also have to think with Pax picking up two more guards that something else would be up if this deal were to go down.
Posted by: BigBen Jul 4 2006, 01:02 PM
QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 4 2006, 12:32 PM)
The latest has it being a 3 for 2 trade:
There is also mention of a potential 3rd team being involved and they did say that the Pistons could have some interest (if the Bulls opted to go with a sign and trade and obviously there is time to do something like that).
You also have to think with Pax picking up two more guards that something else would be up if this deal were to go down.
There is also mention of a potential 3rd team being involved and they did say that the Pistons could have some interest (if the Bulls opted to go with a sign and trade and obviously there is time to do something like that).
You also have to think with Pax picking up two more guards that something else would be up if this deal were to go down.
AM = http://www.nba.com/playerfile/arvydas_macijauskas/index.html?nav=page ?
I guess getting even more players for Chandler and Allen isn't a bad thing. Whoever this dude is at RealGM, he's been on the money with his rumors.
Posted by: The Dude Abides Jul 4 2006, 03:15 PM
QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 4 2006, 10:44 AM)
If Curry had Chandlers attitude, he'd be a star in this league (assuming there is nothing wrong with his heart anymore).
Just because Chandler bangs his chest, pumps his fist and screams on the court doesnt mean he plays with lots of heart or has a championship attitude.
In 5 years, he hasnt put on 5lbs of muscle, hasnt developed 1 low post move, cant shoot free throws, cant hit a shot 5 ft from the basket, etc....but somehow if curry had that attitude, he would be an all star. If tyson was a champion and was committed to the bulls and becoming an all star-don't you think he would have worked his butt off in the offseason the last couple of years and improved his game?
Posted by: HoofHearted Jul 4 2006, 07:13 PM
No1hornet is reporting the trade was agreed to today, what a freaking whopper of a mistake, a spiff attitude SG, and a geriatric PF who puts up mediocre numbers his entire career, and is even worse now. I hope to high hell this deal falls through. Everyone who bashed on Tyson will be begging for him back, "10 million dollars is too much for what he does," we just payed 15 a year to the same one dimensional. What a fat load of donkey spiff, one step forward three steps back. I guess Paxson putting a team together up to this point in fantastic, but making the playoffs in the NBA is not exactly a crown achievment. I hope PJ fails his physical.
Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 4 2006, 07:18 PM
QUOTE (HoofHearted @ Jul 4 2006, 08:06 PM)
No1hornet is reporting the trade was agreed to today, what a freaking whopper of a mistake, a spiff attitude SG, and a geriatric PF who puts up mediocre numbers his entire career, and is even worse now. I hope to high hell this deal falls through. Everyone who bashed on Tyson will be begging for him back, "10 million dollars is too much for what he does," we just payed 15 a year to the same one dimensional. What a fat load of donkey spiff, one step forward three steps back. I guess Paxson putting a team together up to this point in fantastic, but making the playoffs in the NBA is not exactly a crown achievment. I hope PJ fails his physical.
I'm glad that whole "I trust Paxson" thing is still in effect.
Posted by: BigBen Jul 4 2006, 07:20 PM
QUOTE (The Dude Abides @ Jul 4 2006, 03:08 PM)
Just because Chandler bangs his chest, pumps his fist and screams on the court doesnt mean he plays with lots of heart or has a championship attitude.
In 5 years, he hasnt put on 5lbs of muscle, hasnt developed 1 low post move, cant shoot free throws, cant hit a shot 5 ft from the basket, etc....but somehow if curry had that attitude, he would be an all star. If tyson was a champion and was committed to the bulls and becoming an all star-don't you think he would have worked his butt off in the offseason the last couple of years and improved his game?
In 5 years, he hasnt put on 5lbs of muscle, hasnt developed 1 low post move, cant shoot free throws, cant hit a shot 5 ft from the basket, etc....but somehow if curry had that attitude, he would be an all star. If tyson was a champion and was committed to the bulls and becoming an all star-don't you think he would have worked his butt off in the offseason the last couple of years and improved his game?
Posted by: HoofHearted Jul 4 2006, 07:22 PM
QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 4 2006, 07:11 PM)
I'm glad that whole "I trust Paxson" thing is still in effect.
Why should we trust Paxson, exactly what has he done? He put a team together that made the playoffs a couple seasons and got bounced in the first round both times, EIGHT teams make the playoffs in the NBA big flipping whoop. He put together a good team, yes, but he just seems hell bent on clearing all of Krauses players out for one reason or another.
Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 4 2006, 07:22 PM
QUOTE (HoofHearted @ Jul 4 2006, 08:15 PM)
Why should we trust Paxson, exactly what has he done? He put a team together that made the playoffs a couple seasons and got bounced in the first round both times, EIGHT teams make the playoffs in the NBA big flipping whoop. He put together a good team, yes, but he just seems hell bent on clearing all of Krauses players out for one reason or another.
Yes, I'm sure the "big picture" is getting rid of all of Krause's players.
Posted by: BigBen Jul 4 2006, 07:24 PM
QUOTE (HoofHearted @ Jul 4 2006, 07:15 PM)
Why should we trust Paxson, exactly what has he done? He put a team together that made the playoffs a couple seasons and got bounced in the first round both times, EIGHT teams make the playoffs in the NBA big flipping whoop. He put together a good team, yes, but he just seems hell bent on clearing all of Krauses players out for one reason or another.
Because all of Krause's players suck. Curry is a fat, lazy bum and Chandler is the weakest 7 footer in the history of the NBA. I still can't believe that we gave up Brand for this twig who can't even gain 5 pounds of muscle.
Posted by: SleepyWhiteSox Jul 4 2006, 07:28 PM
QUOTE (The Dude Abides @ Jul 4 2006, 03:08 PM)
Just because Chandler bangs his chest, pumps his fist and screams on the court doesnt mean he plays with lots of heart or has a championship attitude.
In 5 years, he hasnt put on 5lbs of muscle, hasnt developed 1 low post move, cant shoot free throws, cant hit a shot 5 ft from the basket, etc....but somehow if curry had that attitude, he would be an all star. If tyson was a champion and was committed to the bulls and becoming an all star-don't you think he would have worked his butt off in the offseason the last couple of years and improved his game?
In 5 years, he hasnt put on 5lbs of muscle, hasnt developed 1 low post move, cant shoot free throws, cant hit a shot 5 ft from the basket, etc....but somehow if curry had that attitude, he would be an all star. If tyson was a champion and was committed to the bulls and becoming an all star-don't you think he would have worked his butt off in the offseason the last couple of years and improved his game?
i <3 u
Posted by: HoofHearted Jul 4 2006, 07:30 PM
QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 4 2006, 07:15 PM)
Yes, I'm sure the "big picture" is getting rid of all of Krause's players.
Just let me say this, Tyson will take a spiff on PJ Brown's number and everyone will be laughing at how we got fleeced not only this season, but many down the road. Saying Tyson is overpayed when we shelled out superstar dough for a defensive player with no scoring moves whatsoever is a freaking joke. Redundancy is one thing, just giving up a player for spiff because you decided to overpay for the same type player with more notoriety is another. Seriously, why dont we all just stab our eyes out and have Pax lead us around by a leash. I mean he's shitting out gold nuggets and farting out gold dust with first round playoff teams, so he has definitely proved he can do it all.
Posted by: HoofHearted Jul 4 2006, 07:32 PM
QUOTE (BigBen @ Jul 4 2006, 07:17 PM)
Chandler is the weakest 7 footer in the history of the NBA.
Another rediculously overstated and asinine comment made out of spite for a certain player. Yeah, I mean he is by far the weakest 7 footer EVER!!!
Posted by: BigBen Jul 4 2006, 07:32 PM
QUOTE (HoofHearted @ Jul 4 2006, 07:23 PM)
Just let me say this, Tyson will take a spiff on PJ Brown's number and everyone will be laughing at how we got fleeced not only this season, but many down the road. Saying Tyson is overpayed when we shelled out superstar dough for a defensive player with no scoring moves whatsoever is a freaking joke. Redundancy is one thing, just giving up a player for spiff because you decided to overpay for the same type player with more notoriety is another. Seriously, why dont we all just stab our eyes out and have Pax lead us around by a leash. I mean he's shitting out gold nuggets and farting out gold dust with first round playoff teams, so he has definitely proved he can do it all.
I predict that P.J. Brown's numbers will be similar to Chandler's this upcoming season and we will be able to sign/draft a better big man than both Brown/Chander after the season is over.
Posted by: SleepyWhiteSox Jul 4 2006, 07:33 PM
QUOTE (HoofHearted @ Jul 4 2006, 07:25 PM)
Another rediculously overstated and asinine comment made out of spite for a certain player. Yeah, I mean he is by far the weakest 7 footer EVER!!!
shawn bradley and manute bol would manhandle him...
Posted by: HoofHearted Jul 4 2006, 07:34 PM
QUOTE (BigBen @ Jul 4 2006, 07:25 PM)
I predict that P.J. Brown's numbers will be similar to Chandler's and we will be able to sign/draft a better big man than both Brown/Chander next year when Brown is gone.
The only numbers he will be able to equal are the scoring numbers, big flipping deal, ten points a game with deminished defensive skills, "but hey, he's a leader".
Posted by: Bullies4Life Jul 4 2006, 07:34 PM
The question is... can PJ do this for us?!?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFLYqdd_fMI&search=tyson%20chandler
Posted by: BigBen Jul 4 2006, 07:35 PM
QUOTE (HoofHearted @ Jul 4 2006, 07:27 PM)
The only numbers he will be able to equal are the scoring numbers, big flipping deal, ten points a game with deminished defensive skills, "but hey, he's a leader".
I'm sick of people crying over this weakass bum. I think I have bigger biceps than Chandler. That's just freaking sad.
Posted by: HoofHearted Jul 4 2006, 07:36 PM
QUOTE (SleepyWhiteSox @ Jul 4 2006, 07:26 PM)
shawn bradley and manute bol would manhandle him...
Yeah I bet.
Posted by: BigBen Jul 4 2006, 07:37 PM
QUOTE (Bullies4Life @ Jul 4 2006, 07:27 PM)
The question is... can PJ do this for us?!?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFLYqdd_fMI&search=tyson%20chandler
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFLYqdd_fMI&search=tyson%20chandler
All of Tyson's 10 dunks, all in one video. Impressive.
Posted by: Bullies4Life Jul 4 2006, 07:39 PM
QUOTE (BigBen @ Jul 4 2006, 07:30 PM)
All of Tyson's 10 dunks, all on one video. Impressive.
You forgot to mention the 233242ik126 saving blocks he had
Posted by: HoofHearted Jul 4 2006, 07:40 PM
QUOTE (BigBen @ Jul 4 2006, 07:28 PM)
I'm sick of people crying over this weakass bum. I think I have bigger biceps than Chandler. That's just freaking sad.
Yet another rediculous comment made out of spite. His biceps arent huge, he's 7 freaking feet tall, no he isnt the heaviest guy out there, but how bout the guy we just drafted to play PF for us? Tyson sure doesnt look weak when his junk is in other centers faces while hes outjumping/positioning them and grabbing boards away from them.
Posted by: SleepyWhiteSox Jul 4 2006, 07:41 PM
QUOTE (BigBen @ Jul 4 2006, 07:30 PM)
All of Tyson's 10 dunks, all in one video. Impressive.
Wow, couple of alley-oops and tip-dunks with some weak-side help blocks on guards led into the lane mixed in...Forget him never hitting a jump shot, has he ever blocked a shot one-on-one???
Posted by: BigBen Jul 4 2006, 07:41 PM
QUOTE (Bullies4Life @ Jul 4 2006, 07:32 PM)
You forgot to mention the 233242ik126 saving blocks he had
Let Tyson go be overrated and "reach his potential" with some other team. I'm sick of the underdeveloped and overpaid scrub.
Posted by: HoofHearted Jul 4 2006, 07:43 PM
QUOTE (BigBen @ Jul 4 2006, 07:34 PM)
Let Tyson go be overrated and "reach his potential" with some other team. I'm sick of the underdeveloped and overpaid scrub.
Yes, and let's take the shittiest deal out there for him even though theres genuine interest from other teams with better offers.
Posted by: ChWRoCk2 Jul 4 2006, 07:43 PM
QUOTE (HoofHearted @ Jul 4 2006, 09:23 PM)
Just let me say this, Tyson will take a spiff on PJ Brown's number and everyone will be laughing at how we got fleeced not only this season, but many down the road. Saying Tyson is overpayed when we shelled out superstar dough for a defensive player with no scoring moves whatsoever is a freaking joke. Redundancy is one thing, just giving up a player for spiff because you decided to overpay for the same type player with more notoriety is another. Seriously, why dont we all just stab our eyes out and have Pax lead us around by a leash. I mean he's shitting out gold nuggets and farting out gold dust with first round playoff teams, so he has definitely proved he can do it all.
I agree with you to the fact that trading for PJ would be a mistake, I think we would regret trading Chandler for a guy who is in what his upper 30s. Chandler is YOUNG, so what now he cant hit the low post shots but Big Ben can show him, I would absolutely dread giving Chandler up and seeing PJ walk in 2 yrs.
I think most people on this board just gave up hope on Chandler and are more than willing to do this trade because they want to win now. To me JR Smith is what is luring everyone in. Which Im not gonna lie he is an athlete but PJ IS OLD Period.
Well I have news for all of you, the heat who won it havent changed a thing this offseason and until we make another move they are still winning the Eastern Conference. Granted Big Ben bumps us up three seeds or two in the conference that still doesnt win it.
Posted by: BigBen Jul 4 2006, 07:44 PM
QUOTE (HoofHearted @ Jul 4 2006, 07:36 PM)
Yes, and let's take the shittiest deal out there for him even though theres genuine interest from other teams with better offers.
Dumping his ridiculous contract is the first step to getting a better big man after next season. P.J. Brown is a good enough one year replacement.
Posted by: HoofHearted Jul 4 2006, 07:46 PM
QUOTE (BigBen @ Jul 4 2006, 07:37 PM)
Dumping his ridiculous contract is the first step to getting a better big man after next season. P.J. Brown is a good enough one year replacement.
Yes, taking spiff in a trade all for the sakes of dumping a contract. Tyson does what he was payed to do and will continue to do so, we just payed premium for a defensive player, talk about rediculous contracts.
Posted by: BigBen Jul 4 2006, 07:47 PM
QUOTE (HoofHearted @ Jul 4 2006, 07:39 PM)
Yes, taking spiff in a trade all for the sakes of dumping a contract. Tyson does what he was payed to do and will continue to do so, we just payed premium for a defensive player, talk about rediculous contracts.
Chandler does not produce enough for what he earns.
Posted by: SleepyWhiteSox Jul 4 2006, 07:48 PM
QUOTE (HoofHearted @ Jul 4 2006, 07:39 PM)
Yes, taking spiff in a trade all for the sakes of dumping a contract. Tyson does what he was payed to do and will continue to do so, we just payed premium for a defensive player, talk about rediculous contracts.
Just name me one legitimate PF or C in the NBA that he can guard well...Just one that you've said, "Wow, he really shut that guy down." And I'm not talking about his ability to block small guards driving into the lane...
Posted by: SleepyWhiteSox Jul 4 2006, 07:49 PM
QUOTE (BigBen @ Jul 4 2006, 07:37 PM)
Dumping his ridiculous contract is the first step to getting a better big man after next season. P.J. Brown is a good enough one year replacement.
Exactly. And we'll probably have to wait and see what talent we draft from next year's supposedly good class...
Posted by: Bullies4Life Jul 4 2006, 07:55 PM
QUOTE (SleepyWhiteSox @ Jul 4 2006, 07:41 PM)
Just name me one legitimate PF or C in the NBA that he can guard well...Just one that you've said, "Wow, he really shut that guy down." And I'm not talking about his ability to block small guards driving into the lane...
Its not always about shutting down guys... sometimes its about being a defensive pressense down low.
Posted by: ChWRoCk2 Jul 4 2006, 08:00 PM
QUOTE (SleepyWhiteSox @ Jul 4 2006, 09:42 PM)
Exactly. And we'll probably have to wait and see what talent we draft from next year's supposedly good class...
Christ where do I start, so appearently reading this correctly getting PJ for a year just till we draft a player to take hist spot is of what use he is to us. Your telling me Tyson cant do the Same:
Comparison:
Tysons Numbers (Career Highs)
PPG 8 Reb 9.7 Block 1.8 Stl .9
PJ Brown (Career Highs)
PPG 10.8 Reb 9 Block .8 Stl 1
Tysons is what 24, and PJ Brown is 36, so of course lets bring in a veteran who is 36 years of age, just so he can put up one more basket than Tyson, and not as strong defensively, keep in mind these are PJs career high, if you look at his stats, they get lower, and with Wallace here we expect him to take the load in scoring in the load post over Tyson who would do no better of a job. The trade is pointless, lets trade up 12 yrs. We drafted thefolosha for a reason, as a defensive guard, and JR Smith and him could be no different players.
Well guess Im not gonna be the one shaking my head when PJ walks after a year and Tyson picks up his game. And Im sure that with a projected lower pick next year we will grab a superstar. Which isnt guaranteed.
Posted by: BigBen Jul 4 2006, 08:01 PM
QUOTE (Bullies4Life @ Jul 4 2006, 07:48 PM)
Its not always about shutting down guys... sometimes its about being a defensive pressense down low.
Chandler gets scored on almost as easily as Curry did. A few blocked shots here and there doesn't mean much when he's still getting dominated in the paint.
Posted by: BigBen Jul 4 2006, 08:03 PM
QUOTE (ChWRoCk2 @ Jul 4 2006, 07:53 PM)
Christ where do I start, so appearently reading this correctly getting PJ for a year just till we draft a player to take hist spot is of what use he is to us. Your telling me Tyson cant do the Same:
Comparison:
Tysons Numbers (Career Highs)
PPG 8 Reb 9.7 Block 1.8 Stl .9
PJ Brown (Career Highs)
PPG 10.8 Reb 9 Block .8 Stl 1
Tysons is what 24, and PJ Brown is 36, so of course lets bring in a veteran who is 36 years of age, just so he can put up one more basket than Tyson, and not as strong defensively, keep in mind these are PJs career high, if you look at his stats, they get lower, and with Wallace here we expect him to take the load in scoring in the load post over Tyson who would do no better of a job. The trade is pointless, lets trade up 12 yrs. We drafted thefolosha for a reason, as a defensive guard, and JR Smith and him could be no different players.
Well guess Im not gonna be the one shaking my head when PJ walks after a year and Tyson picks up his game. And Im sure that with a projected lower pick next year we will grab a superstar.
Comparison:
Tysons Numbers (Career Highs)
PPG 8 Reb 9.7 Block 1.8 Stl .9
PJ Brown (Career Highs)
PPG 10.8 Reb 9 Block .8 Stl 1
Tysons is what 24, and PJ Brown is 36, so of course lets bring in a veteran who is 36 years of age, just so he can put up one more basket than Tyson, and not as strong defensively, keep in mind these are PJs career high, if you look at his stats, they get lower, and with Wallace here we expect him to take the load in scoring in the load post over Tyson who would do no better of a job. The trade is pointless, lets trade up 12 yrs. We drafted thefolosha for a reason, as a defensive guard, and JR Smith and him could be no different players.
Well guess Im not gonna be the one shaking my head when PJ walks after a year and Tyson picks up his game. And Im sure that with a projected lower pick next year we will grab a superstar.
When P.J. walks, we will be freed of both his and Chandler's contracts. We will be able to sign/draft a better big man than both of them. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.
Posted by: ChWRoCk2 Jul 4 2006, 08:10 PM
QUOTE (BigBen @ Jul 4 2006, 09:56 PM)
When P.J. walks, we will be freed of both his and Chandler's contracts. We will be able to sign/draft a better big man than both of them. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.
Money is not a problem for us. A draft pick isnt gonna cost 10 million. Regardless we are okay financially. You obviously didnt read my post, what the hell is the point of trading for PJ to take on his contract also. I would spiff myself if we did that, hate to break it to ya but Tyson costs less than PJ. Perhaps we can ask Tysons clone PJ Brown when he arrives why we traded for a veteran with a bigger salary when we could have kept Tyson, and besides JR Smith comes with this trade, he doesnt cost no 1 million I can tell you that, high school superstars always want a shitload of cash.
Posted by: BigBen Jul 4 2006, 08:12 PM
QUOTE (ChWRoCk2 @ Jul 4 2006, 08:03 PM)
Money is not a problem for us. A draft pick isnt gonna cost 10 million. Regardless we are okay financially. You obviously didnt read my post, what the hell is the point of trading for PJ to take on his contract also. I would spiff myself if we did that, hate to break it to ya but Tyson costs less than PJ. Perhaps we can ask Tysons clone PJ Brown when he arrives why we traded for a veteran with a bigger salary when we could have kept Tyson, and besides JR Smith comes with this trade, he doesnt cost no 1 million I can tell you that, high school superstars always want a shitload of cash.
You do know that we have to lock up a bunch of our key players soon, right?
And P.J. Brown's money comes off the books after next season. Tyson and his bloated contract would be here for years.
Posted by: ChWRoCk2 Jul 4 2006, 08:15 PM
QUOTE (BigBen @ Jul 4 2006, 10:05 PM)
You do know that we have to lock up a bunch of our key players soon, right?
Im well aware of that, and Paxson is gonna get them signed, but taking on PJs larger contract for X number of years he is here wouldnt be the bright move. Therefore Chandler costs less and should stay.
Posted by: BigBen Jul 4 2006, 08:25 PM
QUOTE (ChWRoCk2 @ Jul 4 2006, 08:08 PM)
Im well aware of that, and Paxson is gonna get them signed, but taking on PJs larger contract for X number of years he is here wouldnt be the bright move. Therefore Chandler costs less and should stay.
Huh?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2508889
QUOTE
If the Hornets and Bulls go ahead with the proposed deal, Shinn will absorb the remaining five years and $54 million on Chandler's six-year, $63 million contract signed last summer.
The venerable Brown, who turns 37 in October, has only one season left on his contract at $8 million.
The venerable Brown, who turns 37 in October, has only one season left on his contract at $8 million.
Need I say more?
Posted by: ChWRoCk2 Jul 4 2006, 08:31 PM
QUOTE (BigBen @ Jul 4 2006, 10:18 PM)
Huh?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2508889
Need I say more?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2508889
Need I say more?
Im still sticking to Chandler, he has more potential than any other boom or bust rookie in next years draft and is BETTER than PJ Brown. Yet, still up to the Hornets gm if he is going to take on Chandlers contract, which would be freaking stupid for a young team like Hornets to do.
Posted by: BigBen Jul 4 2006, 08:34 PM
Yet another reason to like P.J. Brown over Chandler -- he can actually make his free throws.
Posted by: SleepyWhiteSox Jul 4 2006, 08:35 PM
QUOTE (ChWRoCk2 @ Jul 4 2006, 07:53 PM)
Christ where do I start, so appearently reading this correctly getting PJ for a year just till we draft a player to take hist spot is of what use he is to us.
You could start by telling me which of our young core you wanted gone because we would have to have let one of the other guys go to keep both Wallace and tyson's bloated contract...Looks like tyson is clearly the odd man out with the way Pax is running things and so far I'm agreeing...
Posted by: ChWRoCk2 Jul 4 2006, 08:40 PM
QUOTE (BigBen @ Jul 4 2006, 10:27 PM)
Yet another reason to like P.J. Brown over Chandler -- he can actually make his free throws.
First he has to get to the line, Chandler can improve his free throws, when he puts the effort of improving in the offseason.
And here comes your smartass comment about how chandler cant score or what not?
Their avgs are pretty similar, Im the type of person whod rather have youth over vets, and correct me if Im wrong PJ is 36? And Chandler is 23-24.
If your convinced that next seasons draft class will net us a better player than both pj and chandler then youd better hope he at least puts up tysons numbers.
Posted by: BigBen Jul 4 2006, 08:42 PM
QUOTE (ChWRoCk2 @ Jul 4 2006, 08:33 PM)
First he has to get to the line, Chandler can improve his free throws, when he puts the effort of improving in the offseason.
And here comes your smartass comment about how chandler cant score or what not?
Their avgs are pretty similar, Im the type of person whod rather have youth over vets, and correct me if Im wrong PJ is 36? And Chandler is 23-24.
If your convinced that next seasons draft class will net us a better player than both pj and chandler then youd better hope he at least puts up tysons numbers.
And here comes your smartass comment about how chandler cant score or what not?
Their avgs are pretty similar, Im the type of person whod rather have youth over vets, and correct me if Im wrong PJ is 36? And Chandler is 23-24.
If your convinced that next seasons draft class will net us a better player than both pj and chandler then youd better hope he at least puts up tysons numbers.
It's not a smartass comment if it's true -- Chandler has no offensive game.
I'd rather have P.J. Brown for one season and then a better big man after that than watch Chandler continue to "live up to expectations" for the next 5 years at $54 million.
I'm pretty sure that we will be able to sign/draft a big man after next season who will be better than Chandler and earn less money.
The sad fact is that Antonio Davis probably did more for us than Tyson Chandler ever did and he was an old geezer. Being young doesn't mean much when the young player sucks.
Posted by: HoofHearted Jul 4 2006, 08:45 PM
Some uncomfirmed news, someone on RealGM claims ESPN radio said the deal was nearly dead because of one of the teams getting cold feet. Again, not confirmed but the guy is someone I recognize as a good contributor, and wouldnt just pull this out of his ass to get a response.
Posted by: ChWRoCk2 Jul 4 2006, 08:47 PM
QUOTE (SleepyWhiteSox @ Jul 4 2006, 10:28 PM)
You could start by telling me which of our young core you wanted gone because we would have to have let one of the other guys go to keep both Wallace and tyson's bloated contract...Looks like tyson is clearly the odd man out with the way Pax is running things and so far I'm agreeing...
This is under the assumption that we dont have enough money by the end of the year to cover them all. If we win more with Wallace who should bring more fans, and sell more merchandise and we could sign them back.
Player wise, from rumors around draft time most likely Duhon. I dont care who hed get rid of because its not my chocie, whatever makes us better, and we really only need four guards, Kirk, Gordon, Noch, whether you consider him an sf or sg since Tyrus came, will all stay, and thefolosha who is a bigger version of duhon from what ive heard.
Posted by: BigBen Jul 4 2006, 08:49 PM
QUOTE (HoofHearted @ Jul 4 2006, 08:38 PM)
Some uncomfirmed news, someone on RealGM claims ESPN radio said the deal was nearly dead because of one of the teams getting cold feet. Again, not confirmed but the guy is someone I recognize as a good contributor, and wouldnt just pull this out of his ass to get a response.
Trade the overpaid bum for Carlos Boozer or Troy Murphy then.
Or maybe it's because Pax has his eyes set on Garnett.
Posted by: ChWRoCk2 Jul 4 2006, 08:57 PM
QUOTE (BigBen @ Jul 4 2006, 10:35 PM)
It's not a smartass comment if it's true -- Chandler has no offensive game.
I'd rather have P.J. Brown for one season and then a better big man after that than watch Chandler continue to "live up to expectations" for the next 5 years at $54 million.
I'm pretty sure that we will be able to sign/draft a big man after next season who will be better than Chandler and earn less money.
The sad fact is that Antonio Davis probably did more for us than Tyson Chandler ever did and he was an old geezer. Being young doesn't mean much when the young player sucks.
I'd rather have P.J. Brown for one season and then a better big man after that than watch Chandler continue to "live up to expectations" for the next 5 years at $54 million.
I'm pretty sure that we will be able to sign/draft a big man after next season who will be better than Chandler and earn less money.
The sad fact is that Antonio Davis probably did more for us than Tyson Chandler ever did and he was an old geezer. Being young doesn't mean much when the young player sucks.
Well then this is useless to argue back and forth about the same damn thing when Id go one way and youd go the oppostie, and just for the record if this deal goes through im gonna laugh my ass off when tyson becomes a star in a new system.
All year in game threads, people would either like chandler or not, but you wouldnt know that because you joined today. One game he throws up all star numbers and the other he flops, hes shed light in games that he can become a good player. Nobody here will give him a chance and have all jumped on the PJ Brown bandwagon with exception of a few. Hell I remember the playoff threads and he played well in most games and everyone wanted him to stay in the game but he couldnt because of fouls which have limited his game minutes considerably effecting his stats.
Posted by: SoxFan1 Jul 4 2006, 09:36 PM
QUOTE (ChWRoCk2 @ Jul 4 2006, 09:50 PM)
and just for the record if this deal goes through im gonna laugh my ass off when tyson becomes a star in a new system.
Then let him go be a star in a new system. Obviously, our system wasn't working for him. Get his ass out of here. I'm tired of people defending him becaue he has potential. It's been 5 freaking years...oh and by the way, to whoever said Tyson had more potential than anyone in next years draft...well, that just might be one of the stupidest things I have ever heard in my enitre lifetime. Oden could take Chandler at this very freaking moment. Guess what, Oden actually had size and a a low post offensive game. The Tyson slurpers need to give it a rest.
Posted by: ChWRoCk2 Jul 4 2006, 09:39 PM
QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 4 2006, 11:29 PM)
Then let him go be a star in a new system. Obviously, our system wasn't working for him. Get his ass out of here. I'm tired of people defending him becaue he has potential. It's been 5 freaking years...oh and by the way, to whoever said Tyson had more potential than anyone in next years draft...well, that just might be one of the stupidest things I have ever heard in my enitre lifetime. Oden could take Chandler at this very freaking moment. Guess what, Oden actually had size and a a low post offensive game. The Tyson slurpers need to give it a rest.
I doubt the Bulls get Oden so we shouldnt have to worry, Bulls most likely have a lower pick next yr which wont net us a superstar.
Also whoever said Oden was comin out next year.
Posted by: The Gladiator Jul 4 2006, 09:40 PM
QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 4 2006, 09:29 PM)
Then let him go be a star in a new system. Obviously, our system wasn't working for him. Get his ass out of here. I'm tired of people defending him becaue he has potential. It's been 5 freaking years...oh and by the way, to whoever said Tyson had more potential than anyone in next years draft...well, that just might be one of the stupidest things I have ever heard in my enitre lifetime. Oden could take Chandler at this very freaking moment. Guess what, Oden actually had size and a a low post offensive game. The Tyson slurpers need to give it a rest.
The Deal is Dead ESPN 1000 reporting... atleast for now, my guess is there exploring the KG trade
Posted by: ChWRoCk2 Jul 4 2006, 09:47 PM
QUOTE (The Gladiator @ Jul 4 2006, 11:33 PM)
The Deal is Dead... atleast for now, my guess is there exploring the KG trade
Bulls are gonna have to give up a helluv alot to get KG, dont see it happening.
Im under the idea that if we didnt get Ben we would have went for KG or the other way around. But we can hope.
Posted by: dasox24 Jul 4 2006, 10:25 PM
QUOTE (ChWRoCk2 @ Jul 4 2006, 09:40 PM)
Im under the idea that if we didnt get Ben we would have went for KG or the other way around. But we can hope.
I don't necessarily think that. I think that they're two different players, with one (KG) being able to do it all, but more of an offensive than defensive player, and the other (Big Ben) being a shut-down defender. They would work great together, and if we got rid of Tyson, that would free up lots of cap room to help absorb KG's monsterous contract.
Plus, because we're pretty deep, getting KG wouldn't mean giving up the rest of our team. We'd still have plenty to surround him with.
Posted by: HoofHearted Jul 5 2006, 12:06 AM
That first rounder next year is looking very valuable, but not many people are going to take that risk to get rid of KG. However, with the possibility of getting Greg Oden with that pick, it may be worth the risk to Minne. I dont want to lose Deng AT ALL, as a matter of fact I dont want to lose any of Kirk, BG, Deng, Noc and to a lesser extent Thabo, Tyrus, or Malik. I'd be more than happy giving up Tyson, Khryapa, Duhon, Sweets and a couple firsts, but chances are Minne wants more than that. Honestly, what we give up to get KG in one of the first four I mention is too much IMO, and it hurts us more than KG helps us.
Posted by: erw9z3 Jul 5 2006, 12:28 AM
As long as the Bulls don't give up Deng and Hinrich I have no problem with the Bulls trading Chandler and whatever else the other team wants as long as the Bulls get a low-post scoring threat.
The first round pick that the Bulls have next year will never be as highly valued as it is now, because if the Knicks do anything then Oden is out the window. So if the Bulls can trade that pick, Chandler, and whoever else needed for a solid low post scorer that would be perfect for the Bulls next season.
Even if the Bulls trade for P.J. Brown and if he can't do what the Bulls expect for them offensively at least they should have enough cap space next year to find someone you can at least contribute in the post.
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 5 2006, 03:28 AM
QUOTE (The Gladiator @ Jul 4 2006, 07:33 PM)
The Deal is Dead ESPN 1000 reporting... atleast for now, my guess is there exploring the KG trade
Very interesting. This could very well be good news. I think I am more comfortable sticking with Tys and if the Bulls fear the luxury cap they can take care of that by moving Chandler a year from now (when we'll have a much better idea of Tys).
That or go out and get a legit player.
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 5 2006, 03:36 AM
ESPN may have a more up to date source on the situation (saying the deal is off) but Arn Tellem (JR Smith's agent) seems to be hinting that the deal will still get done.
This could be info that was told to the reporter prior to the Bulls backing out.
QUOTE
The Hornets have been in talks with the Bulls for the past week, and it's up to the Bulls to accept the deal or explore other trade offers for Chandler, a source said.
Smith's father, Earl, said he spoke with his son's agent, Arn Tellem, on Tuesday morning and was told the trade likely will happen before Friday.
"It would be a fine move that I think is great," Earl Smith said by telephone Tuesday. "It would give J.R. a chance to redeem himself, and I think he would fit in perfect with those guys. They have a chance to contend in the East."
Smith's father, Earl, said he spoke with his son's agent, Arn Tellem, on Tuesday morning and was told the trade likely will happen before Friday.
"It would be a fine move that I think is great," Earl Smith said by telephone Tuesday. "It would give J.R. a chance to redeem himself, and I think he would fit in perfect with those guys. They have a chance to contend in the East."
Posted by: Bullies4Life Jul 5 2006, 05:46 AM
"The deal IS NOT DEAD, period.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Malik Allen is also NOT involved in the trade. If this deal doesn't happen, it isnt me or my source that called it wrong. If that happens, I'll explain that at a later date. I HAVE FULL CONFIDENCE that this has ALREADY been agreed to and that certain officials from either or both the Hornets and Bulls don't want to report it to the media yet, just in case some ridiculous offer is made for one of the principles involved in the trade. Let me make it clear, this trade cannot officially happen until July 12. Thus, neither the Hornets and Brower nor the Bulls and Paxson are in any rush to confirm this trade merely because fans and message boards "Want to know right now." Unless you hear a spokesperson from either the Bulls or Hornets say that this deal is dead, DO NOT TRUST ANY FOOL IN THE MEDIA."
http://hornetsreport.com/HRForums/showthread.php?t=34901
Well... i guess the deal is set... PJ will be joining the Bulls. Also, the guy that wrote is VERY realiable... i guess he maybe be part of the team, or i dunno... But all i know is that he's been calling everything. He said that Peja and Bobby Jackson would be signing w/ the Hornets like a week before it hapened.
Posted by: JOHN Jul 5 2006, 06:59 AM
The deal wil lbe announced some time today.
It appears its just PJ Brown and JR Smith for Tyson Chandler but there are rumors that Paxson is searching for a 3rd team to expand the deal.
Expect PJ to be a Bull
Posted by: southsider2k5 Jul 5 2006, 07:29 AM
QUOTE (BigBen @ Jul 4 2006, 07:17 PM)
Chandler is the weakest 7 footer in the history of the NBA.
Brad Sellers saids "hi"
Posted by: RememberThe90's Jul 5 2006, 07:46 AM
QUOTE (JOHN @ Jul 5 2006, 06:52 AM)
The deal wil lbe announced some time today.
It appears its just PJ Brown and JR Smith for Tyson Chandler but there are rumors that Paxson is searching for a 3rd team to expand the deal.
Expect PJ to be a Bull
It appears its just PJ Brown and JR Smith for Tyson Chandler but there are rumors that Paxson is searching for a 3rd team to expand the deal.
Expect PJ to be a Bull
Posted by: GreatScott82 Jul 5 2006, 09:49 AM
PJ Brown's leadership will do wonders for the Tyrus Thomas and the younger Bulls. He's been a great leader for the Hornets for a long time now. It will kind of be similar to the importance of the Antonio Davis on the 2004-2005 playoff Bulls team.
As far as Chandler is concerned, i guess he was a dissappointment. However, he has tremendous rebounding skills and plays solid defense. I guess Pax and Skiles ran out of patience with him and his lack of offensive abilities.
Wallace doesn't have the offensive abilities either, however, he does have championship experience and he can defend ANY center in the game with authority.
I would much rather trade Chandler to the Hawks in a sign-and-trade deal for Harrington but i dount think it would work cap space wise.
Posted by: Chisoxfn Jul 5 2006, 11:43 AM
I'd much rather see the team step up and be willing to spend a little extra money and go after a Wilcox or Harrington. But if they aren't than Chandler needs to go cause I'm not taking Chandler over Hinrich/Deng/Noc etc.
Posted by: Da Bulls 88 Jul 5 2006, 12:28 PM
Love me some J.R. Smith.
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