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Chicago Bulls Franchise
1) Incosistency- when we come out every night, we have no idea who is going to have a hot night. People say Ben Gordon is our go to scorer, well I have a hard time relying on a guy that scores 35 a night and then 4 points the next night. Notice his dramitic improvement as soon as he went to the bench. Gordon oozes potential, not because he is averaging 17 ppg through 8 games but because of his 35 point swaps.

2) 48 minutes- This team to me, is lost in the 4th quarter. Nocioni takes way to many outside shots and alls we do is look for Ben Gordon to score. Where is Captain Kirk when we need him? He should be taking over games in the second half and feed the ball to the hot player while penetrating. We have way too much dribbling going around and that leads to turnovers.

3) Starting Lineup- I dont think this lineup is going to help us. Duhon gives us absolutely nothing. We are basically playing with 4 players because he neither shoots nor drives. He is best off of the bench to spar Hinrich a couple minutes. Also Nocioni, where has he been? Since coming into the starting lineup he is averaging just 7 ppg. I thought I'd let it all ride itself out but I really dont think Nocioni or Chris Duhon should be starting. IMO, the lineup should be...

PG Hinrich/Duhon/Barett
SG Sefolosha/Gordon/Hinrich
SF Deng/Nocioni/Khryapa
PF PJ Brown/Thomas/Allen
C Ben Wallace/Sweetney

4) Inside presence- We just dont have it. PJ Brown is not going to score 15 ppg this season and we need some of that inside for our shooters to have more space. Ben Wallace is a non factor on offense and Pj is best facing the basket around 10-12 feet it just crams up the inside even more and we dont have good spacing. The only reason I have Brown in the lineup is because of his size. We are getting manhandled in rebounds this year and if Brown starts we can minimize that. I really dont know how to fix this problem unless through trade. Lamar Odom could be an option but I highly doubt it. Maybe as Luol Deng gets stronger and he might even grow another inch, he could be our future Power Forward. He is our best inside scorer because he slashes well. He should be taking more than 9 shots per game. He is shooting like 58% this season. He is our best all around player in my opinion, we need to find a way to get him the ball more because I feel he is ready to have a breakout season.
CryptViLL
Agreed on all notes.
I really like that lineup you stated.
Wanne
I noticed nowhere did you list Thomas. Obviously the biggest problem is an inside scoring presence (see and blame my avatar). PJ brings absolutely nothing to the table IMO. Good lockerroom guy doesn't mean spiff on the court. It is too bad Deng doesn't grow a couple inches and put on about 25 lbs. The guy I'm just really enjoying watching on the court is Thabo.

But besides the inside scoring presence...the thing that's been disappointing so far...for a team that is supposed to be a superior defensive team...it's given up WAAAAAAY too many points so far.

So in hindsight of the draft...was taking Thomas a mistake and passing on Aldridge?

Who out there may be available via trade. Not sure at this point...maybe in a month or so we'll know. No way Indiana will trade ONeal within the division IMO. Not sure who else would be available via trade this year. I swear to God...I still think James Augustine would be a good fit on this team.
Chi-town23-33
QUOTE (Wanne @ Nov 18 2006, 03:52 PM) *
So in hindsight of the draft...was taking Thomas a mistake and passing on Aldridge?


Well, I don't know if that was really a mistake. It could be depending on the way you think about it.

Tyrus was picked because of his toughness and potential. The pick was not a pick for this year but the future, because Paxson knew he would have another great pick in 07, when the big boys like Oden, Brandan Wright, Spencer Hawes, Hasheem Thabeet might be available. That would give the Bulls their future PF and C. In theory, not bad at all. It would give the Bulls someone to anchor the team around offensively and defensively, and Tyrus' defensive skills would be used best when he can come from the weak side.

Aldridge (the player I originally wanted) has size and good skills, but from what I had heard, did not really fit what Skile's was looking for. No matter how good he is, if the coach don't like him, he won't be playing.

Only time will tell if this all works out, because next year I either want Oden (but haven't seen him play in College yet) or Durant. I'm just going to say it right now: Kevin Durant is for real. And it is almost guaranteed he is out next year. If the Bulls got him, they could trade for a big man.
Chicago Bulls Franchise
QUOTE (Wanne @ Nov 18 2006, 03:52 PM) *
I noticed nowhere did you list Thomas. Obviously the biggest problem is an inside scoring presence (see and blame my avatar). PJ brings absolutely nothing to the table IMO. Good lockerroom guy doesn't mean spiff on the court. It is too bad Deng doesn't grow a couple inches and put on about 25 lbs. The guy I'm just really enjoying watching on the court is Thabo.

But besides the inside scoring presence...the thing that's been disappointing so far...for a team that is supposed to be a superior defensive team...it's given up WAAAAAAY too many points so far.

So in hindsight of the draft...was taking Thomas a mistake and passing on Aldridge?

Who out there may be available via trade. Not sure at this point...maybe in a month or so we'll know. No way Indiana will trade ONeal within the division IMO. Not sure who else would be available via trade this year. I swear to God...I still think James Augustine would be a good fit on this team.


I forgot to add him.
DrunkBomber
I think the biggest problem by far is the low post presence followed by inconsistency.
Bullseye
QUOTE (Chi-town23-33 @ Nov 18 2006, 05:06 PM) *
Well, I don't know if that was really a mistake. It could be depending on the way you think about it.

Tyrus was picked because of his toughness and potential. The pick was not a pick for this year but the future, because Paxson knew he would have another great pick in 07, when the big boys like Oden, Brandan Wright, Spencer Hawes, Hasheem Thabeet might be available. That would give the Bulls their future PF and C. In theory, not bad at all. It would give the Bulls someone to anchor the team around offensively and defensively, and Tyrus' defensive skills would be used best when he can come from the weak side.

Aldridge (the player I originally wanted) has size and good skills, but from what I had heard, did not really fit what Skile's was looking for. No matter how good he is, if the coach don't like him, he won't be playing.

Only time will tell if this all works out, because next year I either want Oden (but haven't seen him play in College yet) or Durant. I'm just going to say it right now: Kevin Durant is for real. And it is almost guaranteed he is out next year. If the Bulls got him, they could trade for a big man.

Isn't Durant a SF? why would the Bulls want him?
spencer958
What about defense? We have given up a 100 or more 5 times and opponents are shooting 47%.
Plus free throw shooting, Bulls-69% Opp.-82%.
Bullseye
Spencer Hawes
Hasheem Thabeet
Brandan Wright

Either of these 3 guys I would love to have on the team next year. Thank you Isiah Thomas!
SoxFan1
IMO, it's far too early to put Thabo in the starting line-up. He's played phenomenally, but it's too much to put on a rookie coming in from overseas.

The only real problem the Bulls have is inconsistency, which comes from their lack of chemistry. We've seen this team have those quarters where nothing is in sync and a shot won't go down for the life of them. All of that will come with time, and with time, the team will develop a greater chemistry.

Ultimately, I'd love a starting line-up of Kirk, Thabo, Luol, PJ, and Ben but it's far too early. Once the team develops a rotation in which everyone know's their roles, then we will go on a tear.

It's simply foolish for us to expect great things from the team right off the bat. With 6 or 7 new faces, it's almost impossible. But, part of the blame needs to go on the shoulders of Scott Skiles. He's made some bonehead decisions. The one that still bothers me was giving Duhon the ball for the last shot against the Kings.

But like I said, when we have the rotation of 8 or 9 guys playing every night, with the same lineup for multiple games in a row, we'll be a much better team.

With that said, I still think that everyone on the team can improve a little. Kirk needs to stay out of foul trouble, Ben G needs to drive to the lane more and get to the foul line. If he relies on that jumper all night, he's not going to be successful. Start of with some easy buckets to build confidence.

Deng and Thabo have impressed me most this season, though. They are playing fantastically, and Deng's defense and mid range jumper have impressed me in particular. PJ, well, PJ is PJ. I almost feel sorry for Big Ben because he has no real PF to team up with. He's still a force defensively and I am happy with the job he's done so far. Once he gets in sync with Noc or PJ (whoever plays more minutes at the 4), we're golden.
Chicago Bulls Franchise
QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Nov 18 2006, 11:32 PM) *
IMO, it's far too early to put Thabo in the starting line-up. He's played phenomenally, but it's too much to put on a rookie coming in from overseas.

The only real problem the Bulls have is inconsistency, which comes from their lack of chemistry. We've seen this team have those quarters where nothing is in sync and a shot won't go down for the life of them. All of that will come with time, and with time, the team will develop a greater chemistry.

Ultimately, I'd love a starting line-up of Kirk, Thabo, Luol, PJ, and Ben but it's far too early. Once the team develops a rotation in which everyone know's their roles, then we will go on a tear.

It's simply foolish for us to expect great things from the team right off the bat. With 6 or 7 new faces, it's almost impossible. But, part of the blame needs to go on the shoulders of Scott Skiles. He's made some bonehead decisions. The one that still bothers me was giving Duhon the ball for the last shot against the Kings.

But like I said, when we have the rotation of 8 or 9 guys playing every night, with the same lineup for multiple games in a row, we'll be a much better team.

With that said, I still think that everyone on the team can improve a little. Kirk needs to stay out of foul trouble, Ben G needs to drive to the lane more and get to the foul line. If he relies on that jumper all night, he's not going to be successful. Start of with some easy buckets to build confidence.

Deng and Thabo have impressed me most this season, though. They are playing fantastically, and Deng's defense and mid range jumper have impressed me in particular. PJ, well, PJ is PJ. I almost feel sorry for Big Ben because he has no real PF to team up with. He's still a force defensively and I am happy with the job he's done so far. Once he gets in sync with Noc or PJ (whoever plays more minutes at the 4), we're golden.


Well said, still though I would rather see Thabo start and ride out his mistakes. Its different in the NBA where guys get on hot and cold streaks unlike the NFL where you can either play or you cant.... Atleast I know he is a rookie instead of Ben Gordon who will turn the ball over or go out of control and contort his body for a lucky layup or a charging foul.
Chi-town23-33
QUOTE (BearSox @ Nov 18 2006, 10:50 PM) *
Isn't Durant a SF? why would the Bulls want him?


Yeah, he is a small forward, but the kid has got just so much talent and has the possibility to be that go to scorer. His ball handling is great for a guy he size as well, crossing over guys much closer to the ground than he is. But I was saying in a stacked draft like that, if this guy is available, take him. We've got so much talent, we could make a trade for a big guy or another draft pick to use on a big guy. Actually, having this much talent is a problem (but there are many benefits as well) cause not everyone is getting playing time.
ZoomSlowik
QUOTE (Chi-town23-33 @ Nov 19 2006, 03:40 PM) *
Yeah, he is a small forward, but the kid has got just so much talent and has the possibility to be that go to scorer. His ball handling is great for a guy he size as well, crossing over guys much closer to the ground than he is. But I was saying in a stacked draft like that, if this guy is available, take him. We've got so much talent, we could make a trade for a big guy or another draft pick to use on a big guy. Actually, having this much talent is a problem (but there are many benefits as well) cause not everyone is getting playing time.

Just for fun, Kevin Durant's numbers so far this year:

22.8 points, 9.5 rebounds, 2 assists, 1.3 steals, 3.3 blocks, 46.9 FG%, 44 3PT%.

That's just sick.

I would agree, he's too talented not to take him. He's really good, he has the ability to turn into something like Kevin Garnett with more perimeter skills, which is just a scary thought. He's got incredible length and athleticism. He's still really thin (somewhere around 210), but he could cause some serious matchup problems. He could definitely fill a Shawn Marion type role once he hits his prime. I would honestly have no problem dealing some of our other guys to make room for Durant...
The Dude Abides
-No low post scoring(this needed to be addressed for 3 years running)
-Duhon should not start, but neither should Gordon.
-Living and dying by jump shots.
-Guys are hot one night, off the next...no consistency.
-they have gotten off to a slow start every year under Skiles, circus trip is part of it.
WHarris1
Sure would be nice to have Aldridge right about now.
Chicago Bulls Franchise
QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Nov 19 2006, 09:44 PM) *
Sure would be nice to have Aldridge right about now.


Thomas IMO, is going to be sick in two years and you will be wishing you hadn't said that. Sure now you can but Thomas is only 19 years old and still learning the game. He practically owned Aldridge in the elite eight game they played in last year because he was too quick for Lamarcus and his athletiscm is legendary. He needs to put all these pieces together and we have ourselves a star. I would be willing to bet by the end of the year (Preferably the last 20-25 games) Tyrus's stats those last 20 games will be something like.. 10.8 ppg 8.1 rpg 3.2 bpg. He will learn so much about defense from Big Ben and his offense will come along as the years go by. Once he adds 15-20 pounds which shouldnt be too hard for him he will learn to finish around the rim and with experience he will slow himself down and thats when you will see a dramatic improvement. My guess is you wont see "Star" caliber numbers untill his 3rd year in the NBA when he could score 16 ppg 10.8 rpg 3.2 bpg. Thats my take on Tyrus, I love that kid. He has a bright future.
SoxFan1
QUOTE (Chicago Bulls Franchise @ Nov 19 2006, 09:55 PM) *
Thomas IMO, is going to be sick in two years and you will be wishing you hadn't said that. Sure now you can but Thomas is only 19 years old and still learning the game. He practically owned Aldridge in the elite eight game they played in last year because he was too quick for Lamarcus and his athletiscm is legendary. He needs to put all these pieces together and we have ourselves a star. I would be willing to bet by the end of the year (Preferably the last 20-25 games) Tyrus's stats those last 20 games will be something like.. 10.8 ppg 8.1 rpg 3.2 bpg. He will learn so much about defense from Big Ben and his offense will come along as the years go by. Once he adds 15-20 pounds which shouldnt be too hard for him he will learn to finish around the rim and with experience he will slow himself down and thats when you will see a dramatic improvement. My guess is you wont see "Star" caliber numbers untill his 3rd year in the NBA when he could score 16 ppg 10.8 rpg 3.2 bpg. Thats my take on Tyrus, I love that kid. He has a bright future.

I see no way on God's green earth that Tyrus Thomas averages over 15 ppg or more than 3 blocks per game. Maybe 3 goaltending's per game?

At this point, LaMarcus Aldridge is better than Tyrus Thomas and he would fill a ginormous need for the Bulls. This makes me sad.
WHarris1
QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Nov 19 2006, 09:59 PM) *
I see no way on God's green earth that Tyrus Thomas averages over 15 ppg or more than 3 blocks per game. Maybe 3 goaltending's per game?

I see him with like 45/5.

45 unnecessary leaps resulting in nothing and 5 offensive fouls...
Chicago Bulls Franchise
QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Nov 19 2006, 09:59 PM) *
I see no way on God's green earth that Tyrus Thomas averages over 15 ppg or more than 3 blocks per game. Maybe 3 goaltending's per game?


Then you have no faith. The kid screams "Star" all over the place. How can you even say that when it could be in 2 years? Tyrus already is getting over a block a game and once he gets more minutes and stays out of foul trouble he could do much more of that.
SoxFan1
QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Nov 19 2006, 10:00 PM) *
I see him with like 45/5.

45 unnecessary leaps resulting in nothing and 5 offensive fouls...

lolhitting.gif
WHarris1
QUOTE (Chicago Bulls Franchise @ Nov 19 2006, 10:01 PM) *
Then you have no faith. The kid screams "Star" all over the place. How can you even say that when it could be in 2 years? Tyrus already is getting over a block a game and once he gets more minutes and stays out of foul trouble he could do much more of that.

He still hasn't shown me what basketball skills he has.

I know he can jump high.
Chicago Bulls Franchise
QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Nov 19 2006, 10:02 PM) *
He still hasn't shown me what basketball skills he has.

I know he can jump high.

10 games into the season that comment is irrelevant to me.. John Paxson obviously sees what I see and thats why they drafted him. Well in a year or two when Tyrus gets the numbers I stated above im going to look back on this day and laugh at you guys. laugh.gif

Welp... Time to go play some Halo..
WHarris1
QUOTE (Chicago Bulls Franchise @ Nov 19 2006, 10:06 PM) *
10 games into the season that comment is irrelevant to me.. John Paxson obviously sees what I see and thats why they drafted him. Well in a year or two when Tyrus gets the numbers I stated above im going to look back on this day and laugh at you guys. laugh.gif

Welp... Time to go play some Halo..

Wait, wait, wait...

10 games into the year you can claim Tyrus the next great thing but I can't say he hasn't shown me anything? How the fish does that work?
SoxFan1
QUOTE (Chicago Bulls Franchise @ Nov 19 2006, 10:06 PM) *
10 games into the season that comment is irrelevant to me..

10 games into the season, you saying the Bulls are bad and saying that Tyrus Thomas will be a star is irrelevant as well. laugh.gif
ZoomSlowik
QUOTE (Chicago Bulls Franchise @ Nov 19 2006, 09:55 PM) *
He practically owned Aldridge in the elite eight game they played in last year because he was too quick for Lamarcus and his athletiscm is legendary.


Did you even watch the game? Texas played a zone defense all of last year. Aldridge was matched up with Davis basically the entire game in that defense. That's an absolutely horrible matchup for him, Davis is significantly stronger than him. Tyrus on the other hand basically ran free wherever he wanted. Tucker and Buckman were supposed to guard him, but they have/had no chance against him athletically. That's why Tyrus had like 8 dunks. The one time I can remember them matching up Aldridge blocked the spiff out of Tyrus when he went up for another easy basket.

Tyrus is more athletic than I thought, but he still needs a lot of work. LaMarcus is more effective right now, and we could really use his length.

However, I can't say definitively who we should have taken at this point, the jury is still out. Both guys can still improve quite a bit. It'll be at least 2 years before we get a good feel for how good they both are, maybe more.
Balta1701-B
So, something else that fits under the topic of this thread; against the Lakers tonight, some of the things the Bulls did were just damn stupid. Turnovers, fouls, more T's, getting yourself out of position, etc. Just up and down the list, sloppy play. Games like tonight were games I really expected to stop seeing after a few years of Skiles.
madisonsmadhouse
QUOTE (Chicago Bulls Franchise @ Nov 18 2006, 11:18 AM) *
1) Incosistency- when we come out every night, we have no idea who is going to have a hot night. People say Ben Gordon is our go to scorer, well I have a hard time relying on a guy that scores 35 a night and then 4 points the next night. Notice his dramitic improvement as soon as he went to the bench. Gordon oozes potential, not because he is averaging 17 ppg through 8 games but because of his 35 point swaps.

2) 48 minutes- This team to me, is lost in the 4th quarter. Nocioni takes way to many outside shots and alls we do is look for Ben Gordon to score. Where is Captain Kirk when we need him? He should be taking over games in the second half and feed the ball to the hot player while penetrating. We have way too much dribbling going around and that leads to turnovers.

3) Starting Lineup- I dont think this lineup is going to help us. Duhon gives us absolutely nothing. We are basically playing with 4 players because he neither shoots nor drives. He is best off of the bench to spar Hinrich a couple minutes. Also Nocioni, where has he been? Since coming into the starting lineup he is averaging just 7 ppg. I thought I'd let it all ride itself out but I really dont think Nocioni or Chris Duhon should be starting. IMO, the lineup should be...

PG Hinrich/Duhon/Barett
SG Sefolosha/Gordon/Hinrich
SF Deng/Nocioni/Khryapa
PF PJ Brown/Thomas/Allen
C Ben Wallace/Sweetney

4) Inside presence- We just dont have it. PJ Brown is not going to score 15 ppg this season and we need some of that inside for our shooters to have more space. Ben Wallace is a non factor on offense and Pj is best facing the basket around 10-12 feet it just crams up the inside even more and we dont have good spacing. The only reason I have Brown in the lineup is because of his size. We are getting manhandled in rebounds this year and if Brown starts we can minimize that. I really dont know how to fix this problem unless through trade. Lamar Odom could be an option but I highly doubt it. Maybe as Luol Deng gets stronger and he might even grow another inch, he could be our future Power Forward. He is our best inside scorer because he slashes well. He should be taking more than 9 shots per game. He is shooting like 58% this season. He is our best all around player in my opinion, we need to find a way to get him the ball more because I feel he is ready to have a breakout season.


Good god. You didn't really think the Bulls were going add 8 new players, without adding a big man, and they were going to all gel together on the way to a 60 win season did you? Skiles teams always take a while to come together because he runs a complicated system on both D and O, plus his substitution patterns are different than every other coach in the NBA. I have been trying to tell you guys for months that history shows that our start would be slow, are you ready to listen now? Don't worry, the other trait Skiles teams always show is that once they come together, they will go a on a big run, and they will make the playoffs.


QUOTE (Chicago Bulls Franchise @ Nov 19 2006, 10:06 PM) *
10 games into the season that comment is irrelevant to me.. John Paxson obviously sees what I see and thats why they drafted him. Well in a year or two when Tyrus gets the numbers I stated above im going to look back on this day and laugh at you guys. laugh.gif

Welp... Time to go play some Halo..


And yet after 10 games you can make a thread about the Bulls problems? bang.gif
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