How the hell do they have him dropping?


Suppose they are spot on , should the Bulls Nab him?


I would be in heaven if the bulls had a TRUE pg.


Thoughts?

AJ, I too would adore Conley...

if he drops to us, we take him, we laugh, and we deal Kirk. However, he won't get to #9...

I would bet if Conley starts to fall that far, the Bulls pull off a trade of the #9 pick and a player to get a big man. Call it a hunch.

We're not going to take Conley, not with Kirk and Thabo around for the long haul and Duhon there for the short term. That wouldn't be too bright to deal a decent veteran and replace him with a 19-year old at one of the toughest positions to adjust. IF Conley were there, you could just about guarantee we'd trade him to someone desperate for a PG in order to get a decent big man.

However, there is basically no way that happens, there's AT LEAST a 50/50 chance he goes #3 to Atlanta (though apparently recent buzz has them taking Brandon Wright). There are just too many teams that need a PG for him to fall to us. Atlanta, Memphis, Minnesota, and possibly Milwaukee with Williams close to hitting free agency or Boston with their future a bit in question all could use one.

I would pretty much ignore NBADraft.net until closer to the draft, they come up with some pretty goofy stuff. Plus they change it so often basically no matter what happens they can claim they're brilliant...

I doubt Memphis would take him. They drafted Kyle Lowry in the 1st last year, and were supposedly very high on him until he broke his wrist and missed the last 72 games. In the 1st 10 games of the season, he averaged 17 minutes per game, along with 6 pts, 3 ast, 1.5 stl, was 25-28 at the line, and the Griz in general were just pleased with his overall play. Thought he looked mature and understanding (not scared) on the court. It's a very small sample, but he was a little bright spot in a terrible beginning to their season.

But anyway, you're right that those other teams could (should) pick him, and I highly doubt he'd make it to #9.

I was reading that they soured on him considerably and still aren't totally sold on him at the point (pretty sure it was an insider article, can't seem to find it right now though). He was also a pretty late pick, it's not exactly the same. They'll probably go for whichever is there of Brandan Wright and Al Horford, though PG still seems like a possibility since they don't exactly have Steve Nash at the point.

That's very possible. I know people around Memphis were loving him early in the season and were highly disappointed when he was injured. However, haven't heard much since then, so maybe he didn't rehab hard enough or something to make the Griz management unhappy.

Does Atlanta have anything we want? Because if Conley Drops, I could seriously see them wanting to jump up from spot 11 in order to grab him without having to use the #3 pick on him.

Pachullia would be a nice fit here, especially if the Bulls could move down two spots and still get a guy like Hawes at #11.

Let's Dream!


Draft Conley!
Trade Kirk and Tyrus to you guessed it.... Memphis for Pau Gasol. If they want more, give them all our 2nd rd picks and fiture 1sts. Who cares! Get Gasol!


Gasol
Wallace
Deng
Conley
Gordon

Which one of Conley or Gordon are going to guard the other team's SG? Conley cant shoot worth a damn too, he would be a Duhon clone his first year here.

fine. Trade Gordon Too!


a lineup with

Gasol
Wallace
Deng
Conley
Thabo


is fine with me. and who knows what we could real in for Gordon.

We are really getting ridiculous with the Conley love. If we drafted him, it would only make our small guard problem worse, and it would only keep the low-post hole open. We're all about taking steps backwards aren't we?

I guess you're all about taking steps backward as well. Is that why you want to keep Kirk and draft Hawes.

Conley is no Deron Williams b/c of his size but he'll be a better PG than Kirk. We need to get a bigger SG if we get him. How about Kobe? I hate Kobe but a Kobe/Conley backcourt would be better than Gordon/Hinrich.

Could we get Kobe/Bynum for Gordon/Hinrich/Nocioni/Victor Khryapa & 2 future 1st round picks plus a couple 2nd round picks? We then use our #9 pick on Conley. We re-sign PJ for another year, add a free agent Steve Kerr type player and we are set to go. When needed we could use a Sefolosha/Kobe backcourt for defensive purposes. When we want to play uptempo we could use a Wallace/Tyrus/Deng/Kobe/Conley lineup.

We have

Bynum/Wallace
Wallace/Tyrus/PJ
Deng/Tyrus
Kobe/Sefolosha
Conley/Duhon/Sefolosha

Believe me, I wouldn't even mention bringing Kobe to town if I didn't think it would make our team better. I hate/dispise Kobe and I can't even believe I brought this trade scenario up.

You want 2 19 year olds on a team that is close to taking over the Eastern Conference? What warrants this huge overhaul you're seeking?

Another guard?? HELL NO!!! I thought we were trying to get bigger, how is drafting a guy whos barely 6ft gonna help us. We are solid on the guard position, we dont need to waste our time on that position anymore. We need a center and that is all i want that number 9 pick to be used for. No more small forwards or guards!!!

But Conley is a true PG...

to me Kirk Hinrich is a good enough point guard to lead this team. And once Thabo developes it'll allow Kirk to be able to focus on leading the team instead of trying to guard the oppositions best player. Our backcourt has already shown that they can play great most of the time, why break it up for a unproven rookie who may just cause more matchup problems for our team. Drafting Conley to me wont help at all. He'll struggle from the beginning becuz of his height and then we'll have 5 guards fighting for playing time most likely meaning Conley wouldnt even play becuz Skiles loves Duhon so much. Drafting him just makes no sense, we need size and a post presence not another point guard.

Wow , excuse me for recognizing what a PG could do for an offense.

Look at Deron Williams, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, TJ ford, what did they do for their new offenses?

I would have no problem trading Kirk.


Why is it such a crime to trading Gordon and/or Kirk in a deal to get Gasol and draft Conley?

You Kirk fans are VERY delusional.


you damn right he is.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=P3VZrTEq7GY

Your not getting gasol without giving up the 9th pick so stop dreaming.

Drafting Conley addresses none of our problems. We have a good point guard, by drafting Conley we just complicate things. It forces us to make a deal that might not even be able to happen. We would have to give up a number of players because Gordon and Deng are still on their rookie contracts and are not getting the money that would make it easy to match salaries. I cant see Nocioni drawing that much attention because of his poor showing in the playoffs and his foot problems. The smartest thing to do is draft a big man.

Lyke omgz, behind the back between 2 defenderrzZ!

What's the point of mentioning Williams, Nash, Ford, and Kidd? Did their team make the Finals?

Since Hinrich joined the team, they went from 23 wins his rookie year to 49 wins this past season. But I'm sure this is in spite of Hinrich. You're talking about replacing a veteran PG, who played for the US International squad, and made All-NBA 2nd team with a 19 year old rookie who is 6'0 and would only make match up problems worse defensively. Conley isn't the best shooter, especially from 3, and it only gets further when you're in the NBA. He's not the best FT shooter either. He had a good tourney and his stock skyrocketed.

And Serb is right, you're not getting Gasol without giving up the 9th either. And that's likely with any deal.

Ill dig this thread up in a couple years losers

Yeah, great point. I'll have to agree...oh. Wait...

Hinrich may be the most overrated player in Chicago Sports at the moment.

Carlos Zambrano, Alfonso Soriano, Joe Crede, Tyrus Thomas, Cedric Benson, Brian Urlacher...

sure.

Couldn't agree with you more!



It addresses our problems of having a true PG. We could then trade Kirk or Gordon or both to get that true PF. Next year we could even use Kirk at SG with Thabo. But I'd rather trade Kirk & Gordon if we got Conley and bring in someone like Kobe to play SG or KG for the PF. If we got KG, I'd have no problem starting Thabo. I think there are a lot of scenarios that with Conley that work better than Kirk/Gordon both offensively and defensively. As for giving up a # of players that's why Kirk's overpriced contract would be included. Kirk/Sweetney/Gordon/Nocioni and some future picks would get you something great in return.



Conley's going to be better than Ford. He might not be Nash but he'll be damn good. Williams and Kidd are a lot bigger but I think Conley's quickness will allow him to get to the basket like Tony Parker does. And as for Hinrich, 23 wins isn't anything. He didn't carry the Bulls to 49. Sure he played a role in it but it was more because of Gordon and Deng. And the 1st year they made the playoffs it was b/c Curry/Tyson & Gordon blew up at the end of the year. So don't be giving Kirk all the credit. Conley isn't the best shooter but neither is T.J. Ford. PG's need to set people up and run an offense. Conley will do that much better than Kirk.

And it's not only about bashing Kirk. It's about realizing that Conley might be there at 9. You could then trade Kirk & Gordon to get a better/all-star player at the PF/C position. With Conley/Wallace/Deng/All-star PF/C you should be able to make some real noise in the East and go to the finals. That's what it's all about. Not about keeping players just b/c your too afraid to make deals or b/c you all have man crushes on a certain white boy.

No, it's about not setting your team back for 2 years for a guy that MIGHT be a better option down the road, and at a position where you're already getting better than average production. Sebastian Telfair had all the tools too, how's that one working out?

And I'm really sick of this "true PG" crap. It's not a pre-requisite to having a contending team. All those guys you mentioned as being so superior have exactly one NBA Finals appearance. The best teams over the last few years have been the Spurs, Pistons, Heat, and Mavericks, all of which have scoring point guards. The one exception is the Suns with Nash, who haven't made the Finals despite having good to great players at every position. Just because you DISPISE Kirk doesn't mean we should take a massive risk either.

We have a team that's already pretty solid and could be a real threat with another even remotely capable post player. So we're supposed to piss that away for a guy that basically everyone says is at least 2 years away from being a solid full-time PG? Young PG's are a gigantic risk and often don't work out. Just because the best option in a weak PG class MAY be there when we pick doesn't mean we should radically alter our roster.

Okay, so you just furthered my arguement b/c one thing all those teams had in common was that they all have at least one superstar and several all-star players on them. If you don't have a great PG then you have to have Tim Duncan, Shaq, Wade or someone else that can dominate. The Bulls don't have that. And when the Pistons won, they had Rasheed at his prime who is better than anyone on our team, Rip, & Chauncey who is a better PG than Kirk.

So, we need to get that true all-star or we have to pray that draft pick gives us a star player b/c I don't think we can get it done with the players we have or with Hawes unless Tyrus or Hawes develops quickly which I don't think will happen. That's why you trade Kirk/Gordon/Nocioni and some future picks to get a superstar like KG/Kobe/T-mac ect. Then even if Conley isn't as good as I think he is and even if he is just another Brevin Knight or T.J. Ford, under your scenario we'd still be in a good position b/c you don't need a star PG to win it all. We'd still have Deng who everyone agrees is the future for our team. We'd have another superstar and we'd have Wallace/Thabo/Tyrus and Duhon. So we'd still have reserve guards.

And yes I don't necessarily like Kirk but I don't despise him. I just think we'd be better off unloading that contract and getting something better. I don't view Kirk as the future answer to winning championships. But if we keep him, I'll still hope that he proves me wrong.

And as for Telfair, he didn't work out b/c he's a nut case. That b/c he doesn't have skill. He was never fundamentally sound. He was just a street baller.

And if you don't want Conley we could take Acie Law. Then we'd have that clutch scoring PG you talk about and a star PF/C.

I must be missing something here, since when are Amare Stoudemire, Shawn Marion, Vince Carter, Richard Jeffereson, Chris Bosh and Carlos Boozer (when healthy) not All-Star caliber players? You need those guys regardless, you don't win with crap. However, Deng and Gordon are already pretty close to that, and Tyrus and/or Thabo have the ability to join that group as well. We don't need to close the talent gap, we need to close the post-player gap. Wallace is a move in the right direction, we just need someone else to complement him.

Rasheed averaged 16 points and 6.8 rebounds the year they won while shooting 43.6%. Yeah, that's SOOO much better than Deng. Gordon actually was statistically better offensively than Hamilton that year, and Billups averaged a HIGHLY Kirk-like 16.2 points and 5.7 assists while shooting an even worse 39.4%. Those guys actually played better AFTER they won outside of Big Ben, and there's no reason whatsoever that can't be the Bulls if they fill that gaping hole inside. They won because of great defense and good chemistry, not because of their superior talent (especially since they beat Shaq and Kobe).

Kirk can very easily be a championship PG, there have been far weaker point guards that won a ring. They don't even need a star to be a threat, if you can get a big man that averages like 12-8 (whether it be Tyrus, our pick, or a free agent/trade acquisition) that would give us a very balanced lineup that would probably be the favorite in the East next year. You've still got Deng and Gordon doing most of the heavy lifting and Kirk/whoever being dangerous additional threats. That's plenty of offensive punch, especially with our recent defensive success.

Telfair didn't work out because he doesn't have the discipline to run a team. Maybe that was a bad example, does Shaun Livingston work better? He can do everything Conley does and has the height as well. Even before the injury he hadn't even come close to working out. I'm not necessarily saying that Conley is going to flop, I'm just saying he's FAR from a slam dunk star and the answer to all our problems.

Or we could keep Hinrich and draft the big guy. That's only a one step process, and there's far less uncertainty. We already know this team is pretty good, to make what you keep proposing work it'd probably cost us Hinrich and Tyrus (and probably the pick as well), if they even take a deal without Gordon or Deng.

We're not going to find a PG that is even REMOTELY close to a quality replacement for Kirk for at least 2 years in this draft. We'd be better off drafting Noah or Hawes for some immediate production while Tyrus keeps developing, that'd give us another body inside without destroying our already solid core.

Wasn't there talk of Oden wanting to stick with Conley? If we're on the clock at 9 with Conley available and Portland is offering Randolph for him straight up (plus some crap thrown in for leveling out the salaries), do we do it? This is probably a moot point because someone is gonna trade up to get him, plus Randolph will probably already be traded prior to the draft. I'm not a big Randolph fan but if we can get him on the cheap and Skiles thinks he can handle him, I like.

Well, the problem is that to "level out salaries" we'd basically have to include Kirk or Noc, which makes no sense. Plus Randolph's multitude of problems are explored in the other thread...

You think Paxson is going to draft a 6 foot point guard? Think again...

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/sports/414270,051SPT8.article

I don't need you pointing out articles to me. And by the way I already read it. And it's not about what Paxson is or isn't going to do, it's about what I think would be best. Obviously my opinion doesn't matter in the bigger scheme of things. And guess what! Neither does yours!

Paxson would be smart to trade Kirk. But then he'd probably lose the "white fan" who only support the team b/c Kirk's on the team. Not to be racist but it was the same with Larry Bird. That's just my opinion.

That is so ridiculous. The white fan? Seriously? Attendance is the least of the worries for the Bulls right now. Even when we were winning 17 games a year we still had upwards of 20,000 people a the games. Are you telling me we had no "white fans" before we drafted Hinrich? Now you're just fabricating things to make yourself feel more hatred towards Hinrich. Give it a rest already, we get your point.

ding ding ding

This teams problem is not a "true" PG. The offense flows just fine. This teams problem is a big man who can open up the floor for the shooters and slashers. All you had to do is watch the Pistons series to see how painfully obvious the lack of a big man is. Drafting ANOTHER guard without having a plan to get a big man somehow would be the dumbest possible thing that John Paxson could possibly do in this draft.



OK this is just bizarre. Some how I doubt the interracial Bulls have much of a follow that depends solely upon the number/quality of "white" guys on the team. I don't know where you pull this idea from, but I would put it back.