Figured I'd stick these in here, link from Draft Express:

Measurements and Combine Results

A couple of comments:

-Greg Oden is a freak of nature. Not only his he huge with monster reach numbers, he has a pretty good leap for his size (in the same neighborhood as the two Wrights) and ran as well as many perimeter players. Had he done the bench press (opted out due to concerns about his wrist), he would have easily tested in the top-20, maybe top-10, which is unheard of for true centers.

-The results for Kevin Durant show you that this stuff is far from the Bible. Anyone who watches him for more than a couple of minutes knows that he's a gifted athlete, but he had arguably the worst showing. He had rather pedestrian 26 inch standing and 33.5 inch one-step vertical leaps, as well as ordinary speed/quickness ratings. We all know he can do a lot better than that. I would guess that he half-assed it given his mortal lock on #2.

The one slightly worrisome thing was his 0 bench presses at 185 pounds, though as long as he stays out on the perimeter that lack of strength isn't much of an issue.

-Spencer Hawes came in at 7'3/4" in shoes (though only 6'10 1/2" without, kind of fishy, though he's still tall) and 244 pounds, about 14 more than expected (though he also had a 13% body fat level ). He had pretty pedestrian vertical leap numbers but did well in the agility test and didn't run super-slow in the sprint. He still tested near the bottom, but isn't super-slow (though he is mostly earth-bound).

-Joakim Noah faired pretty well. He came in at 7-feet with shoes and posted 32.5 and 37.5 vertical leaps. He also somehow managed 12 bench presses, though he only ran okay.

-Brandan Wright came in at 6'10" in shoes with insane reach numbers, though he is woefully thin at 200 pounds.

-I still like Reyshawn Terry and Demetrus Nichols as sleepers. Both tested well, with the former leaping well and the latter showing good agility.

-Julian Wright figured to be one of the better athletes, but he actually finished pretty low. Though he's over 6'8" in shoes and has a similar reach to Brandan Wright, he only managed 28.5 and 33.5 inch verticals. He did run pretty well though.

-Aaron Gray came in at 7'0" WITHOUT shoes and 271 pounds. He also did okay in the vertical leaps, though he was a bit slow. He could be a good second rounder if he's still there.

-Yi Jian Lian didn't participate.

Wow thats a name I completely forgot about. Gray I would put in the same category as Hawes, I wouldnt mind us calling his name 2nd round either.

Did you see Mike Conley's vertical. Pretty impressive. Too bad he's only 5'11"

I think Mario Boggan's stock went significantly down with his #'s. A poor vertical and very short for a PF. Good thing for him people like Millsap have found a place in this league. Maybe he can as well.

As for everyone's favorite pick, Spencer Hawes, he delivered what I thought he would. Less than impressive #'s. His 13% body fat was 2nd highest. He had the 10th worst no step vertical, and the 6th worst max vertical. He also had the 7th slowest 3/4 court time. But then again, you can't teach height right?

Looking at last years #'s on there, I can see why Tyrus was picked so high. Super fast 3/4 court time. Great reach and great jumping ability for someone his size. Only Rudy Gay and Brandon Roy were in the same class athletically (with Roy not having nearly the same reach).

As much as I don't like Noah, I'd rather have him than Hawes. However, Hawes is extremely young and maybe he can make great strides in his game.

You think the Bulls might use a 2nd round pick on Jared Dudley. He's a SG/SF but he's primarily been a post player in college.

This is turning into the NFL. Who jumps highest, runs fastest, and is the leanest. Please...give me the guy who doesn't say anything, puts the ball in the bucket, and plays the game.

You show me that guy. If you look at his profile he sure does talk a lot about himself and his strengths. Let your game do the talking big fellow b/c your workouts didn't tell me anything positive.

So what would an athletic combine tell you about his ability to put the ball in the net??? He hasn't had any real workouts yet.

I am sure Ben Wallace would blow away something like this, right?

Like I said originally, I wouldn't put A TON of stock in this, merely things to consider. Otherwise Kevin Durant would be a second rounder.

There's another article on there that points out how mis-leading the numbers can be if that's your only tool for evaluation, it just gives you something else to look at when evaluating players.

How would Durant be a second rounder? Because he's skinny and doesn't bench a lot yet. The guy had a greater wingspan than Oden and had a decent jump for someone that is as tall as he is. On numbers alone he'd be a first rounder. And that's without seeing he pretty stroke for the arc. You think Durant had to show off as much as these other guys? Give me a break. Those other guys were probably going hard enough to pull a muscle and Durant knows he's a 1st or 2nd pick. (most likely 2nd)

If you'd READ, I said if you ONLY went on his combine results he'd go in the second. He had the WORST athletic performance of anyone that completed every drill. His vertical leap was ordinary, and even plodders like Spencer Hawes did better in the agility test, plus there was the inability to do even one bench press. The overall rankings are pretty clear on how poorly he performed overall.

Clearly he won't though, he's shown plenty in college, and he probably was half-assing it. There were plenty of other high picks that didn't suck anywhere near as bad though, and I doubt they were risking injury either...

He would. Ben is built like a tank, can jump, and runs the floor well. The only knock they would have on him in something like this is height. He is pretty much the anti hawes.

Obviously Ben didnt wow enough people with his althetism because if I remember right he went undrafted. Usually if your a good enough athlete no matter how poor of a basketball player you are it would get you drafted. Its like being tall

The one big indication you might be able to gleen from Durant's workout is that he is lazy. If the guy isn't able to do some of the most basic workout stuff, the odds are he hasn't been working out at all, or not very much, and that might go right to his work ethic. Obviously this is speculation, but that was the first thing that popped into my head when I read about this.

why the hell do they measure them without shoes!?!? Are any of these guys going to be playing on the court barefoot?????

Well, it gives you a better idea if anyone is padding it by wearing extra big shoes. If you look at the differences, they can range from 3/4 of an inch to over 2 inches. That's quite a difference, especially if you're looking at a potential post player.



The ESPN article makes it sound like they were more worried about lining up business deals then training for the combine, which does kind of make some sense given his draft situation. Considering most of these other guys are working out and preparing for things like this from the minute they leave school, that can make quite a difference. They talked to his trainer and he claimed 6 weeks of work would have made massive differences (of course he's also probably paid by his agent).

Take that how you will, you can claim that he's more worried about money than basketball with this approach, but I'd just chalk it up to a guy not really having to go out and prove himself at this particular event. If he makes this a pattern, yes, that's definitely a problem, but if anything that putrid performance might prove to be a wakeup call and show him he's not going to be able to coast along in the NBA.

He is a proof that they do pay some attention to wether you can put the ball in the basket. He put up average numbers at a small school. I bet he wasn't even invited to the predraft combine.

Well I wouldnt say Noah or Tyrus were really that much more offensively skilled than Ben was coming out of college. Just they are both way better athletes. Plus playing at a smaller school like Ben did your not going to get noticed unless your actually good.