i dont know that i would want to give up BG, but if we did make this trade it would make sense, because then we would use the 9 pick on a guard like law or conley if he falls, but i dont like that trade.

Well, first of all the salaries don't line up at all.

Second, I'm still darn hesitant to acquire anyone out of Phoenix these days. I look at their offensive production the way I look at a baseball player playing in Coors field; you stop getting some of the Nash-level open looks, and your production might not be what it once was.

Third...there's really not, to my eyes, a great candidate for a 2 guard in the draft at spot 9. Conley could be there as a point guard, and there's a SF candidate or two like Brewer who might be able to be an inbetween guy, but to my eyes, if you trade Gordon, you're basically committing to THabo if you don't get a replacement back.

I dunno, maybe it could work, maybe it could make us better, but I think I still strongly favor the "Draft one more big man and let it all stew for the next few years" route.

That trade is asking for way too much. Shawn Marion is definitely an All-Star, but giving up both Ben Gordon and Noc is way to much for what he brings to our team.

BG + Nocioni = 35 ppg. Shawn Marion = 18 ppg. And that's because he played with Nash, who makes everyone on his team better.

My proposed trade would be Noc + #9 Pick + Chris Duhon for Marion.

And the cap room is an even worse disaster on that one, unless you're offering Noc a $11 mil a year deal or so.

Marion is basically another small forward who likes to shot. He can drive and penetrate but he's not the post up player we need.

Marion would be a great fit for the type of player the Bulls need. He would be a guy who could give them points and rebounds from the block. The only thing is we would have to find a sniper to keep the 3 point line open.

bwahahaha...

anyone who wouldnt want to deal BG, Noc, and change for Marion doesn't know basketball.

Marion was averaging 19/12 way before Nash got there... come on people.

BG and Noc for Marion? I'd carry both on my shoulder to the Airport. But I don't see anything working out financially unless Noc's deal is ridiculously high.

If Nocioni gets close to $6 million it could easily work. We could trade Nocioni/BG/ & some other filler like Sweetney or Victor or Duhon.

As for the 3 point shooting, that's what I'd be worried with. I'm not exactly sure that Kirk could shoot 40+% without BG there all season to open up look for him. I love Marion and his game on both ends of the court. He's not your typical post player but he does get effort put backs and even with the uggliest shot in the NBA he's still a pretty effective scorer. However, I think his biggest impact will be on the glass and on defense where he blocks shots like a beast.

He's actually typically been more of a perimeter player, he jacks up quite a few 3's. He's basically a SF that has been forced to play PF regularly in their system (though not as much with Diaw emerging the last two years and Amare healthy this year) His FG% was actually sliding a bit as his role expanded before Nash got there.

Don't get me wrong, he's damn good, I just don't he's the answer to our problems. He basically plays the same role as Deng, they're just different players. He's more of an above the rim guy that gets you more boards and blocks, Deng is a better mid-range shooter that'll score more (Nash and their pace helps Marion's numbers a bit).

I dont see how he fits with this team at all. Ill say no to Marion and his 16 million per year or whatevr it is contract.

if were giving up Nocioni and Gordon together, it better be for a better impact player than Marion. His contract is horrbile!! Honestly i would much rather get Randolph than Marion.

I wouldn't go that far.

However, I agree that if we trade away Gordon, Noc, etc., then they should be apart of a trade that brings us either a superstar regardless of position (i.e. Kobe) or at least a star that's a true PF (minus attitude problems, i.e. Pau Gasol)

Do we really need another small forward who's scheduled to earn around $34M the next 2 years?!?!? Marion's a nice player and all....but GOOD GOD...goofiest ass outside shot in all of basketball. I've seen 6th graders with nicer looking shots.

Your basing this off the look of his jumper? I don't care if he knee's the ball, if it goes in, it's 2/3 points. While he isn't exactly the kind of guy that we really need, he will definitely improve the team. Either way, I don't see this happening.

He isnt what we need because what we need is a PF/C type guy and he is a SF guy. Not 2 mention he is just another jump shooter.

Uhhhhhhh.....no...who said I was basing this off how his shot looked? I'm basing this off of not needing a SF. So you want to retool the whole lineup just to get Marion?



Bingo on the need. But Marion is not a jump shooter. He's a slasher...somebody that also scores a lot with put backs. His jump shooting is probably the weakest part of his game.

getting marion just screws up a lot of things. First its gonna crowded our SF position. Deng's minutes are gonna drop and if we sign Noc back he'll hardly get any minutes also. Also we are gonna lack a SG now, which would force Thabo into the starting lineup and I dont think he could do what Gordon does for our offense. So we would end up weakening our SG position and overcrowding our SF position while we still dont even have a legit scoring center. This trade wouldnt make sense for us.

Deng to me has already showed that he could be better than Marion. Yea he isnt as athletic and he wont wow us with big dunks but he has a better jump shot and can score around the rim quite a bit and he is still young. Marion would just either force deng to play another position or take away minutes from him.

i also dont think i can watch that horrible looking jump shot of his for an entire season lol

couldnt agree more, i dont think marion is the player the bulls need because he is more of a peremiter player, and not a back to the basket type of player, and i think we would be getting less scoring with marion than we would have with BG.

Ok, so what if this were basically tied to a roster overhaul...where not only did we go out and move Gordon in a deal for Marion, we also made some sort of an effort, probably involving a sign and trade with PJ and Deng, to make a run at Pau Gasol?

Hinrich - Sefolosha - Marion - Gasol - Wallace

???

I've thought about that as well, but it just seems like too many blockbuster trades for one team to make in an offseason. It would be a rarity for a team to have that much overhaul. Plus, trying to match salaries for both trades would be damn near impossible. But, that starting lineup would be pretty darn good, though we'd have no depth. In the end, I'd have to say no to a team of Hinrich, Sef, Marion, Gasol, and Wallace.

thats very unlikely. Paxson has said over and over again that he doesnt wanna do anything drastic or stupid. To do what you say would be way to risky. If it failed to work it would destroy everything that we have done over the last 4 years. We have too much talent as is to trade away for marion and gasol. Why not go after Garnett if your gonna trade all of that talent.

You guys have to remember, there are MAJOR advantages to not doing a blockbuster deal right now

because we dont have PJ's expiring contract anymore (even if we get him to agree to a sign and trade it wont be for 8 mil) we have to put too many players together

This time in two seasons you could have hinrich at 10 mil, deng at 12 and gordon somewhere around there plus noc at 6, tyrus at 4....

It takes less players to match salary

the problem now is that deng, BG, Noc, and even TT are more valuable than their salaries

IF those three were out of their rookie contracts, we'd probably be able to get someone like pau for BG and TT or Deng and Sef instead of half our core, or something like that.....not that I would want to give up Deng, TT, or sef.

I don't know how we could get this deal to work financially (since Nocioni will fit into that odd base year contract mix so when you do the sign and trade only a certain portion will fit meaning it will be harder to get a big money guy back when you trade him) but if they could I'd be a huge fan of this.

Marion has a very nice outside shot, is a fantastic athlete and is a superior defensive player to Ben Gordon (simply based upon length and athletism). The other beauty is this team would no longer be super small and Hinrich could than focus on guarding pg's which should make him a more effective all around player.

that only deals with extensions not new contracts signed if the player isnt currently under contract......kirk has that problem bc he signed an extension if we do a sign and trade with noc the full value of his new deal is used

Kirk had that problem... now he doesn't... if we extended Deng or BG they would have the poison pills.

Good to know. I thought I read where Noc was succeptible to the base year thing because he's a restricted free agent (am I wrong?).

gordon and deng will be if they sign extensions, Noc is not affected. It's no different than when we signed and traded Crawford. He was a RFA.

Gotcha. However, the Bulls were under the cap at that time. In fact, I googled it and have a quote from Paxson indicating that Crawford was a base year compensation player and that was why it was so hard to work out a deal with the Knicks:



Sourcde

hmmmmmmmm

now I am not sure

I don't think base-year compensation is the same as the poison pill. I think the former just means that his cap total is the original total and the team receiving him just has to have room to deal with the escalating salary under the cap. The poison pill means that the out-going total is his extension number AND they can only take in his base level. It's not as much a feasibility issue as it is trying to get fair value.

I could be pulling that out of my ass though, I'm not entirely sure...