He did not back down on his trade reports. An article in Press Enterprise indicated the Lakers are looking for this: One report had the Lakers hoping to acquire Bulls center Ben Wallace, Ben Gordon, Luol Deng and Chicago's No. 1 draft pick (9) for Bryant.
However, it also said that the entire league knows that the Lakers are going to try to gut any team that gets Kobe and Kobe does have the ability to put a gun to the Lakers head (as Kobe has apparently given the Lakers a list of three teams, two of which are the Bulls and Knicks).
Here is the article:
Disgruntled Lakers guard Kobe Bryant met with Lakers owner Jerry Buss on Friday in Barcelona, Spain, and reiterated his demand to be traded, two league sources said.
Buss was shocked by Bryant's continued and defiant stance, the sources said, and left the meeting unsure if he would give in to Bryant's demands or if he would keep the All-Star, knowing it'll be "impossible" to get equal value in return.
The Lakers confirmed Friday night that Bryant and Buss did meet. Bryant was in Barcelona on vacation, and Buss was on vacation in China before going to London and then to Barcelona.
"Our position is that it's a private meeting between the two of them and it shall remain private between the two of them," Lakers public relations director John Black said Friday night in a phone interview.
Bryant's agent, Rob Pelinka, didn't return messages.
Bryant began his campaign to force a trade almost three weeks ago by venting in a barrage of interviews on radio stations and in newspapers.
His last public comments had him wanting to be traded, rescinding those demands and then still wanting to be traded, all coming on the same day.
Bryant is the only NBA player with a no-trade clause in his contract. He had said he would waive that clause. But he could make a trade more difficult because he has a three-team wish list, the sources said. Two of the teams are the Chicago Bulls and New York Knicks.
One report had the Lakers hoping to acquire Bulls center Ben Wallace, Ben Gordon, Luol Deng and Chicago's No. 1 draft pick (9) for Bryant.
But the sources said every team, including the Bulls, knows the Lakers will try to "gut" a team in order to get as much value as possible for Bryant.
Bryant could also veto a trade if he thinks the team has to give up too many players, which, the sources said, could also make a trade more difficult.
For a team to acquire Bryant, it cannot swap one or more players exceeding 125 percent of his $19,490,625 million salary he'll earn this season.
Bryant has a 15-percent trade kicker in his contract the team that acquires him has to pick up for $13,289,062 million that would be amortized over the last four years of his contract.
Bryant has an "early termination option" in his contract which allows him to opt out after the 2009 season, meaning he could leave the Lakers without the team getting any compensation.
He has four years and $88,593,750 million left on his contract.
Full Version: Kobe Stands To His Word
That's way too much to give up for Kobe. I think the Lakers would make that trade in a heartbeat b/c then they'd have
Farmar
Gordon
Deng
Odom
Wallace
+#9 pick
I think the Bulls are trading Wallace, they should only have to give up Wallace, Nocioni, and either Gordon or Deng and maybe some future picks but not the first rounder. If we are going to trade Gordon and Deng, we have to get Kobe and Bynum back in return and even then we shouldn't have to trade this year's pick.
Farmar
Gordon
Deng
Odom
Wallace
+#9 pick
I think the Bulls are trading Wallace, they should only have to give up Wallace, Nocioni, and either Gordon or Deng and maybe some future picks but not the first rounder. If we are going to trade Gordon and Deng, we have to get Kobe and Bynum back in return and even then we shouldn't have to trade this year's pick.
Kobe will not be a Bull. The Lakers are going to ask for the whole team and Pax won't do that. The only way i see Kobe coming to Chicago is if Kobe backs LA into the wall and I don't think that will happen.
Expect Kobe to go to a team that can return an all-star calliber player like Jermain O'neal or Gilbert Arenas. The Bulls have a lot of younger talent but we would have to give up most of it to get Kobe.
Expect Kobe to go to a team that can return an all-star calliber player like Jermain O'neal or Gilbert Arenas. The Bulls have a lot of younger talent but we would have to give up most of it to get Kobe.
That would be horrible. plus, if they traded Wallace, they'd have no one at C. and if they include the pick? not bloody likey. making this trade would put the bulls back to a 15 win team.
QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 16 2007, 02:03 PM) 
An article in Press Enterprise indicated the Lakers are looking for this: One report had the Lakers hoping to acquire Bulls center Ben Wallace, Ben Gordon, Luol Deng and Chicago's No. 1 draft pick (9) for Bryant.
BWWWHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAA....Geez-us....anything else? Maybe the Jordan statue?...rights to Chicago-style pizza...and the Shed Aquarium? I really don't want Kobe. Let's rework the whole team so we have guys standing around watching Kobe....great idea. No thanks. I'll buy into a team concept instead of having Mr Superstar Rapist.
Wow, the Lakers are crazy if they think they could get that in return. That would leave the Bulls with the fantastic lineup of:
PG- Hinrich
SG- Kobe
SF- Noc
PF- Tyrus
C- PJ Brown?
Actually, funny enough, we could probably make the playoffs with that team since we're in the East, but we wouldn't make it past the 1st round.
PG- Hinrich
SG- Kobe
SF- Noc
PF- Tyrus
C- PJ Brown?
Actually, funny enough, we could probably make the playoffs with that team since we're in the East, but we wouldn't make it past the 1st round.
QUOTE
BWWWHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAA....Geez-us....anything else? Maybe the Jordan statue?...rights to Chicago-style pizza...and the Shed Aquarium?
same way i feel, giving up way too much to get ONE player, the trade scanerio i heard was deng, BG, Duhon, and noce or p.j. that would be giving away the core of our team paxon built the past 4 years. if it did happen it would put the bulls right back where they started....exiting the playoffs in the first round, because after the trade kobe will have the same thing he had in LA with no help around him. we are gaining less scoring than we would be giving away, i just dont see any point in the trade. YES kobe is a great player, but not to the point where you guve up your whole team to get him, and if you have kobe and kirk, who will they be feeding the ball into the post to score?? its not going to be wallace.
from an LA fan on real gm
Let's just say all 3 scenerios would look great for us.
QUOTE
Best Scenario:
Ben Wallace
Luol Deng
2007 no.9
Good
Ben Wallace
Ben Gorden
2007 no. 9
Worst
Ben Wallace
Cris Duhon
2007 no.9
Ben Wallace
Luol Deng
2007 no.9
Good
Ben Wallace
Ben Gorden
2007 no. 9
Worst
Ben Wallace
Cris Duhon
2007 no.9
Let's just say all 3 scenerios would look great for us.
QUOTE (rangercal @ Jun 17 2007, 01:18 AM)
QUOTE
Best Scenario:
Ben Wallace
Luol Deng
2007 no.9
Good
Ben Wallace
Ben Gorden
2007 no. 9
Worst
Ben Wallace
Cris Duhon
2007 no.9
from an LA fan on real gm
Let's just say all 3 scenerios would look great for us.
Considering I have no idea who those 2 players are, I'd give 'em both up if we got Kobe...
QUOTE (dasox24 @ Jun 17 2007, 01:29 AM)
from an LA fan on real gm
Let's just say all 3 scenerios would look great for us.
Considering I have no idea who those 2 players are, I'd give 'em both up if we got Kobe...
Let's just say all 3 scenerios would look great for us.
Considering I have no idea who those 2 players are, I'd give 'em both up if we got Kobe...
Seriously. I can't believe you said that. Duhon I can expect but with Gordon don't give me that spiff.
QUOTE (steve9347 @ Jun 17 2007, 03:00 AM)
Seriously. I can't believe you said that. Duhon I can expect but with Gordon don't give me that spiff.
I think he got it after he posted that you said that b/c the spellings were wrong. No harm intended.
http://lakers.realgm.com/articles/116/2007...y_to_kobe_deal/
As much as I hate it, this article makes a lot of sense. I really hate Kobe but I definately see how the Lakers would eat up the chance of getting Yi. Yi is the type of player that would fill their stadium for years. Yi, Gordon, Nocioni and some other fillers (one of which they said was Thabo, but I'd hate for that to be the case) would be traded in return for Kobe and the Lakers 19th pick so that the Bulls could draft a PF big man.
If it were Yi, Gordon and Nocioni I think that would be pretty fair. However, if you also have to throw in Thabo I think that would be too much. Maybe Duhon but not Thabo.
Either way, if we get Yi, I'd rather just keep Yi and the team we have than bring in Kobe, who probably would win us a title, but is the most selfish player in the NBA.
Which lineup would be better for the future?
Hinrich/Duhon
Kobe/?
Deng
Tyrus/19th pick
Wallace
or
Hinrich/Sefolosha/(whatever we get for Duhon)
Gordon/Sefolosha
Deng/(Nocioni or whatever we get for him)/(Khryapa or whatever we get for him)
Yi/Tyrus
Wallace
I personally like option 2. Everyone on that lineup except for Wallace is young. Kobe is turning 29. That gives him a good 4-5 years left. 3 of which will probably be at the level he was at last year. After that he starts going downhill.
Gordon is 24
Deng is 22
Hinrich is 26 (27 in Jan)
Thabo is 23
Yi is 21-24
Tyrus is turning 21
Nocioni is turning 28 (he's probably not in our future plans)
I would rather have a scenario where aour future core which those players above would be, all can play for another 8-12 years together. We really could start a dynasty. The only thing we'd be missing is a true center. However, I'm sure we could find on in the 2nd round or in a future round. Or by trading Nocioni & Duhon we probably could get a decent serviceable big man to replace Wallace once he's gone.
I know $ is going to be an issue. That's why we probably won't be able to keep Nocioni. However, we should have enough to pay Tyrus once Wallace's contract comes of the book. And by the time Yi is a free agent, Hinrich's deal will be over and Deng and Gordon's will likely be in their final year. It will be hard to get done but I'm sure they'll take championships over an extra million dollars. Not to mention the fact that to Jerry wouldn't mind going over the cap to keep this group together. Especially when Yi is bringing in several million more per year to the team in terms of marketing, jersey sales, ect.
As much as I hate it, this article makes a lot of sense. I really hate Kobe but I definately see how the Lakers would eat up the chance of getting Yi. Yi is the type of player that would fill their stadium for years. Yi, Gordon, Nocioni and some other fillers (one of which they said was Thabo, but I'd hate for that to be the case) would be traded in return for Kobe and the Lakers 19th pick so that the Bulls could draft a PF big man.
If it were Yi, Gordon and Nocioni I think that would be pretty fair. However, if you also have to throw in Thabo I think that would be too much. Maybe Duhon but not Thabo.
Either way, if we get Yi, I'd rather just keep Yi and the team we have than bring in Kobe, who probably would win us a title, but is the most selfish player in the NBA.
Which lineup would be better for the future?
Hinrich/Duhon
Kobe/?
Deng
Tyrus/19th pick
Wallace
or
Hinrich/Sefolosha/(whatever we get for Duhon)
Gordon/Sefolosha
Deng/(Nocioni or whatever we get for him)/(Khryapa or whatever we get for him)
Yi/Tyrus
Wallace
I personally like option 2. Everyone on that lineup except for Wallace is young. Kobe is turning 29. That gives him a good 4-5 years left. 3 of which will probably be at the level he was at last year. After that he starts going downhill.
Gordon is 24
Deng is 22
Hinrich is 26 (27 in Jan)
Thabo is 23
Yi is 21-24
Tyrus is turning 21
Nocioni is turning 28 (he's probably not in our future plans)
I would rather have a scenario where aour future core which those players above would be, all can play for another 8-12 years together. We really could start a dynasty. The only thing we'd be missing is a true center. However, I'm sure we could find on in the 2nd round or in a future round. Or by trading Nocioni & Duhon we probably could get a decent serviceable big man to replace Wallace once he's gone.
I know $ is going to be an issue. That's why we probably won't be able to keep Nocioni. However, we should have enough to pay Tyrus once Wallace's contract comes of the book. And by the time Yi is a free agent, Hinrich's deal will be over and Deng and Gordon's will likely be in their final year. It will be hard to get done but I'm sure they'll take championships over an extra million dollars. Not to mention the fact that to Jerry wouldn't mind going over the cap to keep this group together. Especially when Yi is bringing in several million more per year to the team in terms of marketing, jersey sales, ect.
QUOTE (steve9347 @ Jun 17 2007, 03:00 AM)
Seriously. I can't believe you said that. Duhon I can expect but with Gordon don't give me that spiff.
Damn, Steve. I was poking fun at the fact that their names were misspelled.
QUOTE (steve9347 @ Jun 17 2007, 03:00 AM)
Seriously. I can't believe you said that. Duhon I can expect but with Gordon don't give me that spiff.
Relax killer. He was joking around because of the spelling.
QUOTE (eddog2 @ Jun 17 2007, 01:06 PM)
http://lakers.realgm.com/articles/116/2007...y_to_kobe_deal/
As much as I hate it, this article makes a lot of sense. I really hate Kobe but I definately see how the Lakers would eat up the chance of getting Yi. Yi is the type of player that would fill their stadium for years. Yi, Gordon, Nocioni and some other fillers (one of which they said was Thabo, but I'd hate for that to be the case) would be traded in return for Kobe and the Lakers 19th pick so that the Bulls could draft a PF big man.
If it were Yi, Gordon and Nocioni I think that would be pretty fair. However, if you also have to throw in Thabo I think that would be too much. Maybe Duhon but not Thabo.
Either way, if we get Yi, I'd rather just keep Yi and the team we have than bring in Kobe, who probably would win us a title, but is the most selfish player in the NBA.
Which lineup would be better for the future?
Hinrich/Duhon
Kobe/?
Deng
Tyrus/19th pick
Wallace
or
Hinrich/Sefolosha/(whatever we get for Duhon)
Gordon/Sefolosha
Deng/(Nocioni or whatever we get for him)/(Khryapa or whatever we get for him)
Yi/Tyrus
Wallace
I personally like option 2. Everyone on that lineup except for Wallace is young. Kobe is turning 29. That gives him a good 4-5 years left. 3 of which will probably be at the level he was at last year. After that he starts going downhill.
Gordon is 24
Deng is 22
Hinrich is 26 (27 in Jan)
Thabo is 23
Yi is 21-24
Tyrus is turning 21
Nocioni is turning 28 (he's probably not in our future plans)
I would rather have a scenario where aour future core which those players above would be, all can play for another 8-12 years together. We really could start a dynasty. The only thing we'd be missing is a true center. However, I'm sure we could find on in the 2nd round or in a future round. Or by trading Nocioni & Duhon we probably could get a decent serviceable big man to replace Wallace once he's gone.
I know $ is going to be an issue. That's why we probably won't be able to keep Nocioni. However, we should have enough to pay Tyrus once Wallace's contract comes of the book. And by the time Yi is a free agent, Hinrich's deal will be over and Deng and Gordon's will likely be in their final year. It will be hard to get done but I'm sure they'll take championships over an extra million dollars. Not to mention the fact that to Jerry wouldn't mind going over the cap to keep this group together. Especially when Yi is bringing in several million more per year to the team in terms of marketing, jersey sales, ect.
As much as I hate it, this article makes a lot of sense. I really hate Kobe but I definately see how the Lakers would eat up the chance of getting Yi. Yi is the type of player that would fill their stadium for years. Yi, Gordon, Nocioni and some other fillers (one of which they said was Thabo, but I'd hate for that to be the case) would be traded in return for Kobe and the Lakers 19th pick so that the Bulls could draft a PF big man.
If it were Yi, Gordon and Nocioni I think that would be pretty fair. However, if you also have to throw in Thabo I think that would be too much. Maybe Duhon but not Thabo.
Either way, if we get Yi, I'd rather just keep Yi and the team we have than bring in Kobe, who probably would win us a title, but is the most selfish player in the NBA.
Which lineup would be better for the future?
Hinrich/Duhon
Kobe/?
Deng
Tyrus/19th pick
Wallace
or
Hinrich/Sefolosha/(whatever we get for Duhon)
Gordon/Sefolosha
Deng/(Nocioni or whatever we get for him)/(Khryapa or whatever we get for him)
Yi/Tyrus
Wallace
I personally like option 2. Everyone on that lineup except for Wallace is young. Kobe is turning 29. That gives him a good 4-5 years left. 3 of which will probably be at the level he was at last year. After that he starts going downhill.
Gordon is 24
Deng is 22
Hinrich is 26 (27 in Jan)
Thabo is 23
Yi is 21-24
Tyrus is turning 21
Nocioni is turning 28 (he's probably not in our future plans)
I would rather have a scenario where aour future core which those players above would be, all can play for another 8-12 years together. We really could start a dynasty. The only thing we'd be missing is a true center. However, I'm sure we could find on in the 2nd round or in a future round. Or by trading Nocioni & Duhon we probably could get a decent serviceable big man to replace Wallace once he's gone.
I know $ is going to be an issue. That's why we probably won't be able to keep Nocioni. However, we should have enough to pay Tyrus once Wallace's contract comes of the book. And by the time Yi is a free agent, Hinrich's deal will be over and Deng and Gordon's will likely be in their final year. It will be hard to get done but I'm sure they'll take championships over an extra million dollars. Not to mention the fact that to Jerry wouldn't mind going over the cap to keep this group together. Especially when Yi is bringing in several million more per year to the team in terms of marketing, jersey sales, ect.
Well, isn't the point of bringing him to Chicago to win the title? You'd rather have Yi Jianlian...an unknown commodity, rather than an NBA title and Kobe Bryant??? I understand your point that this could be a potential dynasty, but if we have a bunch of really good players, we won't be able to re-sign all of them and keep them together that long.
The proposed trade in the article is Gordon, Nocioni, Thabo, and the 9th pick for Bryant and the 19th pick. I would do that trade in an instant. Any deal for Kobe in which we keep Deng AND Wallace is a winner. WIth the 19th pick, you can draft any of a slew of big guards or PF/C's.
Guys who could be there at 19 include Stuckey, Byars, Young, Fernandez, Belinelli, and Afflalo who are all pretty big guards. If you want to go frontcourt, you could possibly get Splitter, McRoberts, Smith, or Gasol.
Hinrich/Duhon
Bryant/pick/Griffin
Deng/pick/Khryapa
Thomas/Brown?/pick
Wallace/FA?
I think best case scenario is Gordon, Noc, Duhon for Kobe. Or Gordon, Noc, Duhon, and the 9th for Kobe and the 19th.
QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jun 17 2007, 03:43 PM)
I think best case scenario is Gordon, Noc, Duhon for Kobe. Or Gordon, Noc, Duhon, and the 9th for Kobe and the 19th.
They'd have to get REALLY desperate to do that. I mean look at what the initial post is suggesting what they want. I could see it dropping a bit, but going from 3 of our starters and the #9 pick to one starter and no pick is a hell of a drop...
QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jun 17 2007, 02:33 PM)
They'd have to get REALLY desperate to do that. I mean look at what the initial post is suggesting what they want. I could see it dropping a bit, but going from 3 of our starters and the #9 pick to one starter and no pick is a hell of a drop...
The question is not whether or not the offer would be fair or would satisfy the Lakers. The only question that matters is; how serious is Kobe about this trade demand? Is he serious enough to refuse to play this season?
If he is that serious, then you don't have to meet the Lakers' demands; you have to make the best offer. And as a team not in the Lakers' conference where Kobe may accept a trade to (given that he is one of the few players in the NBA with an actual no-trade clause and therefore has a veto over any deal) there are very few teams who could put together a better offer.
If the Lakers are FORCED to trade Kobe, they will not get what they're asking for. Do you think what Philly got was fair for AI? What the Lakers got for Shaq? You don't trade one of the best couple players in the league and get equal value; it's just not possible. The only quesiton is whether or not Bryant will actually force a trade. If he does that, he can be had at a price the Bulls could offer.
QUOTE (Balta1701-B @ Jun 17 2007, 04:39 PM)
The question is not whether or not the offer would be fair or would satisfy the Lakers. The only question that matters is; how serious is Kobe about this trade demand? Is he serious enough to refuse to play this season?
If he is that serious, then you don't have to meet the Lakers' demands; you have to make the best offer. And as a team not in the Lakers' conference where Kobe may accept a trade to (given that he is one of the few players in the NBA with an actual no-trade clause and therefore has a veto over any deal) there are very few teams who could put together a better offer.
If the Lakers are FORCED to trade Kobe, they will not get what they're asking for. Do you think what Philly got was fair for AI? What the Lakers got for Shaq? You don't trade one of the best couple players in the league and get equal value; it's just not possible. The only quesiton is whether or not Bryant will actually force a trade. If he does that, he can be had at a price the Bulls could offer.
If he is that serious, then you don't have to meet the Lakers' demands; you have to make the best offer. And as a team not in the Lakers' conference where Kobe may accept a trade to (given that he is one of the few players in the NBA with an actual no-trade clause and therefore has a veto over any deal) there are very few teams who could put together a better offer.
If the Lakers are FORCED to trade Kobe, they will not get what they're asking for. Do you think what Philly got was fair for AI? What the Lakers got for Shaq? You don't trade one of the best couple players in the league and get equal value; it's just not possible. The only quesiton is whether or not Bryant will actually force a trade. If he does that, he can be had at a price the Bulls could offer.
LA got Odom, Butler and a future first for Shaq, that's a lot better than what we'd be sending in that deal. Iverson got a lot less, but he also had a lot more issues with him and was already past his prime. Had they dealt him a few years earlier like they should have, they could have received a much better package than Miller and 2 firsts, which is still not THAT far off from the package in question.
You have a point on the no-trade clause, but either greatly overvalue our guys or underestimate what teams could give up in order to get Kobe on the second point. There are numerous conceivable packages that would be at least comparable to that:
1) Indiana in a deal revolving around Jermaine O'Neal (Granger is the only other real sweetener).
2) Memphis in a deal revolving around Gasol (could potentially add Gay, Warrick or their pick, though that's unlikely).
3) Golden State with their multitude of options. You've got Baron Davis, Jason Richardson, Al Harrington, Stephen Jackson and Adonale Foyle for the salary filler as well as a couple of intriguing youngsters in Monta Ellis, Andris Biedrins, and Mickael Pietrus and the #17 pick.
4) The Knicks, which would also probably be on his short list. Even without Marbury or Steve Francis, which LA would probably avoid like the plague, Crawford and Curry are both fairly young and talented (and have large but fairly reasonable salaries), and there's also Quentin Richardson to bridge a salary gap if they give up guys like Channing Frye, David Lee, and/or Nate Robinson.
5) Boston could either go with a Pierce/Kobe swap or deal some of their wealth of young talent (at least 2 of Jefferson, Green, West, Gomes, Rondo, Allen) along with the 5 pick to pair Pierce with another elite scorer. Plus they have Ratliff's expiring contract, which could give LA some CRAZY cap space, and you know they can lure just about any free agent to play for the Lakers.
6) Phoenix in a deal surrounding Marion or Stoudemire (the former is a lot more likely), with Diaw and Barbosa as potential highly intriguing potential add-ons.
7) Portland could send Randolph and a couple of talented young wing players like Travis Outlaw and Martell Webster.
8) The Wizards could do something like Butler and Jamison.
9) Sacramento could conceivably build something around Bibby and/or Artest.
Granted I pulled a few of those out of my ass, but it's not like we're the ONLY team that could put together a passable package. I just have a VERY hard time seeing the Lakers take less than 3 quality pieces for Kobe (or a superior player to Gordon), which would minimally mean adding Tyrus or our pick unless things escalate considerably. They'd have to get REALLY desperate to deal a top-5 talent in his prime for one good starter and essentially two bench players (though Noc is a pretty good one once he gets healthy). The one thing working in our favor is the no-trade clause, but Kobe would have to push the issue to the point of no return AND basically limit it to two or 3 teams that he'd go to.
Sam Smith hit it right on the head. We would have to gut this team for Kobe, and it isn't worth it.
If we can get Kobe at a bargain due to his demanding of a trade... then I'm all for it.
However, the rumored Ben Wallace, Luol Deng, Ben Gordon, AND the draft pick would weaken us just as much as it helps us, and I sure as spiff don't want to make a lateral move for an even more expensive star who is hard to get along with, thusly making it harder to acquire talent to help out our cause.
What I hate is the media. I don't see how moving Wallace would help this team, only create more problems... sure, I'd love Kobe, and would have no problem with a Big and Little Ben, plus Tyrus, plus the pick deal... but I'm not moving Luol Deng.
Then we have to find a center on a limited budget, and its 2006 all over again.
However, the rumored Ben Wallace, Luol Deng, Ben Gordon, AND the draft pick would weaken us just as much as it helps us, and I sure as spiff don't want to make a lateral move for an even more expensive star who is hard to get along with, thusly making it harder to acquire talent to help out our cause.
What I hate is the media. I don't see how moving Wallace would help this team, only create more problems... sure, I'd love Kobe, and would have no problem with a Big and Little Ben, plus Tyrus, plus the pick deal... but I'm not moving Luol Deng.
Then we have to find a center on a limited budget, and its 2006 all over again.
Wow, the latest scenarios are intriguing... with the Bulls only losing PJ, Gordon, Tyrus and the pick... sign me the fish up.
If we can get a deal of this magnitude done, then look out NBA Championships...
QUOTE
More than two weeks after Kobe Bryant made his trade request to the Lakers, he still wants out, says his agent.
"Kobe's position remains unchanged," Bryant's agent Rob Pelinka told ESPN.com on Friday. "Kobe would like to be moved."
In fact, Kobe met with owner Jerry Buss on Friday and once again voiced his desire to be traded.
The question remains, will the Lakers move him? The head says no. But the scuttlebutt suggests otherwise. A number of GMs and agents around the league seem convinced that Bryant is going to be traded.
The Lakers had strong interest in trading for Jermaine O'Neal before Kobe's trade request. But that interest has cooled since then. Why? The Lakers have been saying that the Pacers' asking price (Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum and the No. 19 pick) is too high. But maybe it's because there's no need to bring in a big-money player like O'Neal and gut the team if Kobe isn't going to be around.
From what I can gather, the Lakers would have two conditions to meet in any Kobe Bryant trade:
1. They want to send him to the Eastern Conference.
2. They need a star player back in return.
The Eastern Conference preference would potentially rule out such places as Phoenix and Golden State, both of which have significant assets and interest.
And, of course, the lack of available stars would rule out just about every team in the East, including the Knicks.
Some East teams lack the star power to bid directly for Bryant. Others have stars that aren't going anywhere.
For instance, the Cavs and Heat have superstars LeBron James and Dwyane Wade, but both are untouchable. Ditto, apparently, for Dwight Howard in Orlando.
Chicago, from what I hear, is Bryant's first preference, so he probably would be willing to waive his no-trade clause to play there. While the Bulls have lots of assets, such as Ben Gordon, Luol Deng and the No. 9 pick in the draft, that package lacks true star power.
Based on my conversations with various sources around the league, I see two intriguing possibilities if the Lakers are looking for an Eastern Conference star -- the Wizards' Gilbert Arenas and the Celtics' Paul Pierce.
Scenario 1
Arenas isn't Kobe, in talent or stardom. But he is from Los Angeles, he's more than three years younger, he has great magnetism and, like Bryant, he can fill the seats.
With Arenas saying he'll opt out of his contract with Washington next summer, the Wizards might want to start looking at ways to move him now before running the risk of losing him for nothing.
Here's one potential trade, with Bryant headed to Chicago and Arenas to L.A.
The Bulls would send Gordon, Tyrus Thomas and P.J. Brown (sign-and-trade) to Washington, and the No. 9 pick to L.A.
The Lakers would send Bryant to Chicago.
The Wizards would send Arenas and Etan Thomas to L.A.
Under that scenario, which couldn't be completed until mid-July, the Lakers would get a star player (Arenas) and a high draft pick (No. 9) that, I'm told, they'd use to get Yi Jianlian if he's still on the board.
The Bulls would be paying a very high price for Kobe -- two high lottery picks and this year's No. 9. But Chicago would keep Deng, something it desperately wants to do. On the other hand, the Bulls still wouldn't have a low-post scorer.
The Wizards would avoid having to break the bank for Arenas next summer, would bring in two very talented young players and would get some serious cap relief down the road.
Scenario 2
A similar trade could work if the Lakers were willing to substitute Boston and Pierce. While Pierce is almost 30 years old, I'm told the Lakers like him -- and he's from L.A., too.
The Bulls would send Gordon, Thomas and Brown (sign-and-trade) to Boston, and the No. 9 pick to L.A.
The Lakers would send Bryant to Chicago.
The Celtics would send Pierce to L.A.
That deal would make the Celtics even younger than they already are, but it would also give them plenty of assets to continue making deals.
"Kobe's position remains unchanged," Bryant's agent Rob Pelinka told ESPN.com on Friday. "Kobe would like to be moved."
In fact, Kobe met with owner Jerry Buss on Friday and once again voiced his desire to be traded.
The question remains, will the Lakers move him? The head says no. But the scuttlebutt suggests otherwise. A number of GMs and agents around the league seem convinced that Bryant is going to be traded.
The Lakers had strong interest in trading for Jermaine O'Neal before Kobe's trade request. But that interest has cooled since then. Why? The Lakers have been saying that the Pacers' asking price (Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum and the No. 19 pick) is too high. But maybe it's because there's no need to bring in a big-money player like O'Neal and gut the team if Kobe isn't going to be around.
From what I can gather, the Lakers would have two conditions to meet in any Kobe Bryant trade:
1. They want to send him to the Eastern Conference.
2. They need a star player back in return.
The Eastern Conference preference would potentially rule out such places as Phoenix and Golden State, both of which have significant assets and interest.
And, of course, the lack of available stars would rule out just about every team in the East, including the Knicks.
Some East teams lack the star power to bid directly for Bryant. Others have stars that aren't going anywhere.
For instance, the Cavs and Heat have superstars LeBron James and Dwyane Wade, but both are untouchable. Ditto, apparently, for Dwight Howard in Orlando.
Chicago, from what I hear, is Bryant's first preference, so he probably would be willing to waive his no-trade clause to play there. While the Bulls have lots of assets, such as Ben Gordon, Luol Deng and the No. 9 pick in the draft, that package lacks true star power.
Based on my conversations with various sources around the league, I see two intriguing possibilities if the Lakers are looking for an Eastern Conference star -- the Wizards' Gilbert Arenas and the Celtics' Paul Pierce.
Scenario 1
Arenas isn't Kobe, in talent or stardom. But he is from Los Angeles, he's more than three years younger, he has great magnetism and, like Bryant, he can fill the seats.
With Arenas saying he'll opt out of his contract with Washington next summer, the Wizards might want to start looking at ways to move him now before running the risk of losing him for nothing.
Here's one potential trade, with Bryant headed to Chicago and Arenas to L.A.
The Bulls would send Gordon, Tyrus Thomas and P.J. Brown (sign-and-trade) to Washington, and the No. 9 pick to L.A.
The Lakers would send Bryant to Chicago.
The Wizards would send Arenas and Etan Thomas to L.A.
Under that scenario, which couldn't be completed until mid-July, the Lakers would get a star player (Arenas) and a high draft pick (No. 9) that, I'm told, they'd use to get Yi Jianlian if he's still on the board.
The Bulls would be paying a very high price for Kobe -- two high lottery picks and this year's No. 9. But Chicago would keep Deng, something it desperately wants to do. On the other hand, the Bulls still wouldn't have a low-post scorer.
The Wizards would avoid having to break the bank for Arenas next summer, would bring in two very talented young players and would get some serious cap relief down the road.
Scenario 2
A similar trade could work if the Lakers were willing to substitute Boston and Pierce. While Pierce is almost 30 years old, I'm told the Lakers like him -- and he's from L.A., too.
The Bulls would send Gordon, Thomas and Brown (sign-and-trade) to Boston, and the No. 9 pick to L.A.
The Lakers would send Bryant to Chicago.
The Celtics would send Pierce to L.A.
That deal would make the Celtics even younger than they already are, but it would also give them plenty of assets to continue making deals.
If we can get a deal of this magnitude done, then look out NBA Championships...
QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jun 18 2007, 12:40 AM)
LA got Odom, Butler and a future first for Shaq, that's a lot better than what we'd be sending in that deal. Iverson got a lot less, but he also had a lot more issues with him and was already past his prime. Had they dealt him a few years earlier like they should have, they could have received a much better package than Miller and 2 firsts, which is still not THAT far off from the package in question.
You have a point on the no-trade clause, but either greatly overvalue our guys or underestimate what teams could give up in order to get Kobe on the second point. There are numerous conceivable packages that would be at least comparable to that:
1) Indiana in a deal revolving around Jermaine O'Neal (Granger is the only other real sweetener).
2) Memphis in a deal revolving around Gasol (could potentially add Gay, Warrick or their pick, though that's unlikely).
3) Golden State with their multitude of options. You've got Baron Davis, Jason Richardson, Al Harrington, Stephen Jackson and Adonale Foyle for the salary filler as well as a couple of intriguing youngsters in Monta Ellis, Andris Biedrins, and Mickael Pietrus and the #17 pick.
4) The Knicks, which would also probably be on his short list. Even without Marbury or Steve Francis, which LA would probably avoid like the plague, Crawford and Curry are both fairly young and talented (and have large but fairly reasonable salaries), and there's also Quentin Richardson to bridge a salary gap if they give up guys like Channing Frye, David Lee, and/or Nate Robinson.
5) Boston could either go with a Pierce/Kobe swap or deal some of their wealth of young talent (at least 2 of Jefferson, Green, West, Gomes, Rondo, Allen) along with the 5 pick to pair Pierce with another elite scorer. Plus they have Ratliff's expiring contract, which could give LA some CRAZY cap space, and you know they can lure just about any free agent to play for the Lakers.
6) Phoenix in a deal surrounding Marion or Stoudemire (the former is a lot more likely), with Diaw and Barbosa as potential highly intriguing potential add-ons.
7) Portland could send Randolph and a couple of talented young wing players like Travis Outlaw and Martell Webster.
8) The Wizards could do something like Butler and Jamison.
9) Sacramento could conceivably build something around Bibby and/or Artest.
Granted I pulled a few of those out of my ass, but it's not like we're the ONLY team that could put together a passable package. I just have a VERY hard time seeing the Lakers take less than 3 quality pieces for Kobe (or a superior player to Gordon), which would minimally mean adding Tyrus or our pick unless things escalate considerably. They'd have to get REALLY desperate to deal a top-5 talent in his prime for one good starter and essentially two bench players (though Noc is a pretty good one once he gets healthy). The one thing working in our favor is the no-trade clause, but Kobe would have to push the issue to the point of no return AND basically limit it to two or 3 teams that he'd go to.
You have a point on the no-trade clause, but either greatly overvalue our guys or underestimate what teams could give up in order to get Kobe on the second point. There are numerous conceivable packages that would be at least comparable to that:
1) Indiana in a deal revolving around Jermaine O'Neal (Granger is the only other real sweetener).
2) Memphis in a deal revolving around Gasol (could potentially add Gay, Warrick or their pick, though that's unlikely).
3) Golden State with their multitude of options. You've got Baron Davis, Jason Richardson, Al Harrington, Stephen Jackson and Adonale Foyle for the salary filler as well as a couple of intriguing youngsters in Monta Ellis, Andris Biedrins, and Mickael Pietrus and the #17 pick.
4) The Knicks, which would also probably be on his short list. Even without Marbury or Steve Francis, which LA would probably avoid like the plague, Crawford and Curry are both fairly young and talented (and have large but fairly reasonable salaries), and there's also Quentin Richardson to bridge a salary gap if they give up guys like Channing Frye, David Lee, and/or Nate Robinson.
5) Boston could either go with a Pierce/Kobe swap or deal some of their wealth of young talent (at least 2 of Jefferson, Green, West, Gomes, Rondo, Allen) along with the 5 pick to pair Pierce with another elite scorer. Plus they have Ratliff's expiring contract, which could give LA some CRAZY cap space, and you know they can lure just about any free agent to play for the Lakers.
6) Phoenix in a deal surrounding Marion or Stoudemire (the former is a lot more likely), with Diaw and Barbosa as potential highly intriguing potential add-ons.
7) Portland could send Randolph and a couple of talented young wing players like Travis Outlaw and Martell Webster.
8) The Wizards could do something like Butler and Jamison.
9) Sacramento could conceivably build something around Bibby and/or Artest.
Granted I pulled a few of those out of my ass, but it's not like we're the ONLY team that could put together a passable package. I just have a VERY hard time seeing the Lakers take less than 3 quality pieces for Kobe (or a superior player to Gordon), which would minimally mean adding Tyrus or our pick unless things escalate considerably. They'd have to get REALLY desperate to deal a top-5 talent in his prime for one good starter and essentially two bench players (though Noc is a pretty good one once he gets healthy). The one thing working in our favor is the no-trade clause, but Kobe would have to push the issue to the point of no return AND basically limit it to two or 3 teams that he'd go to.
I really like you well thought out post. However, I differ on a few areas. I think Phoenix, Boston and the Bulls have the best trading pieces to get Kobe. Indiana screwed themselves over with the trades they made last year. Nobody wants Dunleavy, but a O'neal, Harrington deal might have worked.
Anyway, Boston, besides the Bulls probably have the best shot. They have that Ratliff contract you referred to, the 5th pick, Rondo, Jefferson, West, Green, Allen, Gomes, and Perkins. All of whom are on real low contracts. A Ratliff, Allen, Green, West, & the 5th pick (and maybe even Gomes) should be better than what the Bulls would be offering. That would likely bring LA Yi JianLian which would be an instant draw at the box office for the Lakers. A lineup of
West/Farmar/Smush
Green/Allen
Odom/Walton
Yi JianLian/Kwame
Bynum/Mihm (if healthly)
would give the Lakes a lot of young talent and make some of the other peices like Kwame, Mihm, Odom, or Walton expendable to get the other peices the team needs. That would be a pretty good lineup in a couple of years.
As for the Celtics, Bryant and Pierce would probably be the best 1-2 combination in the East and would challenge Melo & AI for the best 1-2 in the league scoring wise. The Celtics would have the 3 headed monsters in Bryant/Pierce/Jefferson.
Rondo
Kobe/Wally
Paul Pierce/Gomes
Jefferson
Perkins
As for Pheonix, I doubt the Lakers want to trade him there, but Phoenix is the team that should be trying harder than anyone to get him. With either Marion or Amare as trade bait, Phoenix could add their first round picks this year (24 & 29), and combination of players next year, Barbosa, Diaw, or Bell. However, all I think they need to do is trade Amare, Bell, & the picks.
Thomas
Marion
Diaw
Kobe
Nash/Barbosa
What a lineup. 3-5 championships and then some serious rebuilding. But I don't think Phoenix would mind.
I think sometime in the next 10 days there will be a serious offer made for Kobe Bryant (if the Lakers are going to dance I think it will be right around draft time).
QUOTE (eddog2 @ Jun 18 2007, 10:24 AM)
I really like you well thought out post. However, I differ on a few areas. I think Phoenix, Boston and the Bulls have the best trading pieces to get Kobe. Indiana screwed themselves over with the trades they made last year. Nobody wants Dunleavy, but a O'neal, Harrington deal might have worked.
Anyway, Boston, besides the Bulls probably have the best shot. They have that Ratliff contract you referred to, the 5th pick, Rondo, Jefferson, West, Green, Allen, Gomes, and Perkins. All of whom are on real low contracts. A Ratliff, Allen, Green, West, & the 5th pick (and maybe even Gomes) should be better than what the Bulls would be offering. That would likely bring LA Yi JianLian which would be an instant draw at the box office for the Lakers. A lineup of
West/Farmar/Smush
Green/Allen
Odom/Walton
Yi JianLian/Kwame
Bynum/Mihm (if healthly)
would give the Lakes a lot of young talent and make some of the other peices like Kwame, Mihm, Odom, or Walton expendable to get the other peices the team needs. That would be a pretty good lineup in a couple of years.
As for the Celtics, Bryant and Pierce would probably be the best 1-2 combination in the East and would challenge Melo & AI for the best 1-2 in the league scoring wise. The Celtics would have the 3 headed monsters in Bryant/Pierce/Jefferson.
Rondo
Kobe/Wally
Paul Pierce/Gomes
Jefferson
Perkins
As for Pheonix, I doubt the Lakers want to trade him there, but Phoenix is the team that should be trying harder than anyone to get him. With either Marion or Amare as trade bait, Phoenix could add their first round picks this year (24 & 29), and combination of players next year, Barbosa, Diaw, or Bell. However, all I think they need to do is trade Amare, Bell, & the picks.
Thomas
Marion
Diaw
Kobe
Nash/Barbosa
What a lineup. 3-5 championships and then some serious rebuilding. But I don't think Phoenix would mind.
Anyway, Boston, besides the Bulls probably have the best shot. They have that Ratliff contract you referred to, the 5th pick, Rondo, Jefferson, West, Green, Allen, Gomes, and Perkins. All of whom are on real low contracts. A Ratliff, Allen, Green, West, & the 5th pick (and maybe even Gomes) should be better than what the Bulls would be offering. That would likely bring LA Yi JianLian which would be an instant draw at the box office for the Lakers. A lineup of
West/Farmar/Smush
Green/Allen
Odom/Walton
Yi JianLian/Kwame
Bynum/Mihm (if healthly)
would give the Lakes a lot of young talent and make some of the other peices like Kwame, Mihm, Odom, or Walton expendable to get the other peices the team needs. That would be a pretty good lineup in a couple of years.
As for the Celtics, Bryant and Pierce would probably be the best 1-2 combination in the East and would challenge Melo & AI for the best 1-2 in the league scoring wise. The Celtics would have the 3 headed monsters in Bryant/Pierce/Jefferson.
Rondo
Kobe/Wally
Paul Pierce/Gomes
Jefferson
Perkins
As for Pheonix, I doubt the Lakers want to trade him there, but Phoenix is the team that should be trying harder than anyone to get him. With either Marion or Amare as trade bait, Phoenix could add their first round picks this year (24 & 29), and combination of players next year, Barbosa, Diaw, or Bell. However, all I think they need to do is trade Amare, Bell, & the picks.
Thomas
Marion
Diaw
Kobe
Nash/Barbosa
What a lineup. 3-5 championships and then some serious rebuilding. But I don't think Phoenix would mind.
I wasn't really listing anything in order. I would agree with that assessment, those 3 teams seem to have the best/most pieces in order to make a deal (New York is probably a slight step back, though they do have some options).
You're right, they probably would prefer not to deal him to Phoenix (or to a lesser extent Golden State or other Western Conference teams). However, if Phoenix is offering Marion, Barbosa, and a pick or two that crushes like anything else they could get unless teams really go nuts (if Boston would do Jefferson, West, #5, and Ratliff or something similar that's also pretty impressive, or the Bulls if they really want to go after it), so they might just take it anyways since it helps their team the most.
my post of the latest rumor seems to have been skipped over by douchebag edwin quoting a longass zoom post.
for more from this, scroll up.
QUOTE
Based on my conversations with various sources around the league, I see two intriguing possibilities if the Lakers are looking for an Eastern Conference star -- the Wizards' Gilbert Arenas and the Celtics' Paul Pierce.
Scenario 1
Arenas isn't Kobe, in talent or stardom. But he is from Los Angeles, he's more than three years younger, he has great magnetism and, like Bryant, he can fill the seats.
With Arenas saying he'll opt out of his contract with Washington next summer, the Wizards might want to start looking at ways to move him now before running the risk of losing him for nothing.
Here's one potential trade, with Bryant headed to Chicago and Arenas to L.A.
The Bulls would send Gordon, Tyrus Thomas and P.J. Brown (sign-and-trade) to Washington, and the No. 9 pick to L.A.
The Lakers would send Bryant to Chicago.
The Wizards would send Arenas and Etan Thomas to L.A.
Under that scenario, which couldn't be completed until mid-July, the Lakers would get a star player (Arenas) and a high draft pick (No. 9) that, I'm told, they'd use to get Yi Jianlian if he's still on the board.
The Bulls would be paying a very high price for Kobe -- two high lottery picks and this year's No. 9. But Chicago would keep Deng, something it desperately wants to do. On the other hand, the Bulls still wouldn't have a low-post scorer.
The Wizards would avoid having to break the bank for Arenas next summer, would bring in two very talented young players and would get some serious cap relief down the road.
Scenario 2
A similar trade could work if the Lakers were willing to substitute Boston and Pierce. While Pierce is almost 30 years old, I'm told the Lakers like him -- and he's from L.A., too.
The Bulls would send Gordon, Thomas and Brown (sign-and-trade) to Boston, and the No. 9 pick to L.A.
The Lakers would send Bryant to Chicago.
The Celtics would send Pierce to L.A.
That deal would make the Celtics even younger than they already are, but it would also give them plenty of assets to continue making deals.
Scenario 1
Arenas isn't Kobe, in talent or stardom. But he is from Los Angeles, he's more than three years younger, he has great magnetism and, like Bryant, he can fill the seats.
With Arenas saying he'll opt out of his contract with Washington next summer, the Wizards might want to start looking at ways to move him now before running the risk of losing him for nothing.
Here's one potential trade, with Bryant headed to Chicago and Arenas to L.A.
The Bulls would send Gordon, Tyrus Thomas and P.J. Brown (sign-and-trade) to Washington, and the No. 9 pick to L.A.
The Lakers would send Bryant to Chicago.
The Wizards would send Arenas and Etan Thomas to L.A.
Under that scenario, which couldn't be completed until mid-July, the Lakers would get a star player (Arenas) and a high draft pick (No. 9) that, I'm told, they'd use to get Yi Jianlian if he's still on the board.
The Bulls would be paying a very high price for Kobe -- two high lottery picks and this year's No. 9. But Chicago would keep Deng, something it desperately wants to do. On the other hand, the Bulls still wouldn't have a low-post scorer.
The Wizards would avoid having to break the bank for Arenas next summer, would bring in two very talented young players and would get some serious cap relief down the road.
Scenario 2
A similar trade could work if the Lakers were willing to substitute Boston and Pierce. While Pierce is almost 30 years old, I'm told the Lakers like him -- and he's from L.A., too.
The Bulls would send Gordon, Thomas and Brown (sign-and-trade) to Boston, and the No. 9 pick to L.A.
The Lakers would send Bryant to Chicago.
The Celtics would send Pierce to L.A.
That deal would make the Celtics even younger than they already are, but it would also give them plenty of assets to continue making deals.
for more from this, scroll up.
i would do these 3
for sure:
gordon
tyrus
9 pick
maybe:
deng
9 pick
duhon
nocioni
not in a million years:
big ben
gordon
deng
9 pick
for sure:
gordon
tyrus
9 pick
maybe:
deng
9 pick
duhon
nocioni
not in a million years:
big ben
gordon
deng
9 pick
what about this-
gordon
nocioni
duhon
#9 Pick
PJ
I think a lot of those 3 way trades make sense bc the lakers get arenas or pierce or jefferson back....but this trade is a lot like what tye did for shaq
Sign and trade PJ to offset salary
Gordon to replace the SG
Duhon's 3.2 expiring deal and will help their pg situation a lot
#9 pick-in a great draft
Nocioni-replaces luke walton and then some...remember noc averaged 15.6 pts and 6 rebounds before he got hurt...that's a good enough line to be a teams 3rd or 4th option
the money works-Gordon's 4 + duhon's 3.2 + noc's (approx) 6.2 + #9 gets you almost over 15 already. Plus PJ's sign and trade and you're there.
This is similar to what they got for Shaq. They get 2 (Gordon, #9) and a half (Nocioni) starters and another guy in Duhon who could end up starting or at least being the primary backup to farmar. PJ to mentor bynum and kwame.
While the lineup would last star power, it would be a great young core. A bynum gordon inside outside duo with noc and odom both being versatile forwards could be the way to compete with Portland in a few years.
Farmar/Duhon
Gordon/#19/Vujacic
#9/Noc/odom
Odom/Noc/Kwame
Bynum/Kwame
gordon
nocioni
duhon
#9 Pick
PJ
I think a lot of those 3 way trades make sense bc the lakers get arenas or pierce or jefferson back....but this trade is a lot like what tye did for shaq
Sign and trade PJ to offset salary
Gordon to replace the SG
Duhon's 3.2 expiring deal and will help their pg situation a lot
#9 pick-in a great draft
Nocioni-replaces luke walton and then some...remember noc averaged 15.6 pts and 6 rebounds before he got hurt...that's a good enough line to be a teams 3rd or 4th option
the money works-Gordon's 4 + duhon's 3.2 + noc's (approx) 6.2 + #9 gets you almost over 15 already. Plus PJ's sign and trade and you're there.
This is similar to what they got for Shaq. They get 2 (Gordon, #9) and a half (Nocioni) starters and another guy in Duhon who could end up starting or at least being the primary backup to farmar. PJ to mentor bynum and kwame.
While the lineup would last star power, it would be a great young core. A bynum gordon inside outside duo with noc and odom both being versatile forwards could be the way to compete with Portland in a few years.
Farmar/Duhon
Gordon/#19/Vujacic
#9/Noc/odom
Odom/Noc/Kwame
Bynum/Kwame
Ben Wallace, Ben Gordon and a throw in for Kobe....should be a done deal.
No way we give up Deng as well....
I love thinking of Kobe, hinrich and Deng all playing together....
We still need a low post player no matter what...
No way we give up Deng as well....
I love thinking of Kobe, hinrich and Deng all playing together....
We still need a low post player no matter what...
QUOTE (b-riann @ Jun 18 2007, 12:29 PM)
i would do these 3
for sure:
gordon
tyrus
9 pick
maybe:
deng
9 pick
duhon
nocioni
not in a million years:
big ben
gordon
deng
9 pick
for sure:
gordon
tyrus
9 pick
maybe:
deng
9 pick
duhon
nocioni
not in a million years:
big ben
gordon
deng
9 pick
I pretty much agree with your sentiments. However, in the for sure category I'd prefer to remove Nocioni and keep Tyrus Thomas.
I love coming up with deals that only move 2 core players, one being Noc but the bottom line is if you can get Kobe and not trade Kirk, deng, and TT you do it. Deng and TT have the best shots at being franchise players and Kirk fits perfectly next to Kobe. If you can keep those three alongside Kobe, no matter what else you give up, they will win the east.
Getting kobe without totally gutting the team + being in the east will attract veterans to give us a discount, meaning we should be able to get a post player with the mle (like mcdyess or brezec) or we maybe still could trade for gooden.
Getting kobe without totally gutting the team + being in the east will attract veterans to give us a discount, meaning we should be able to get a post player with the mle (like mcdyess or brezec) or we maybe still could trade for gooden.
QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 18 2007, 05:38 PM)
I pretty much agree with your sentiments. However, in the for sure category I'd prefer to remove Nocioni and keep Tyrus Thomas.
If a deal can be done which would allow us to keep Deng and Hinrich or Gordon, I would say pull the trigger. The concern I would have is what happens in two years when Kobe can opt out of the contract.
QUOTE (steve9347 @ Jun 18 2007, 10:31 AM)
Wow, the latest scenarios are intriguing... with the Bulls only losing PJ, Gordon, Tyrus and the pick... sign me the fish up.
If we can get a deal of this magnitude done, then look out NBA Championships...
If we can get a deal of this magnitude done, then look out NBA Championships...
Yeah, that would be so sweet. Even if we didn't add a big man to score in the post, like the author said, at least we'd have improved ourselves in a few areas: Defensively and height-wise at Guard, we'd have a true Superstar, and we'd have a clutch scorer at the end of games to take those last second shots. Then, trade Duhon and some 2nd rounders (like mentioned in that other thread) for a guy like Drew Gooden, and the scoring down low is somewhat resolved. Gooden isn't the greatest player, but he's a better scoring option than anything we have right now at PF/C.
Can you imagine a team of:
PG- Hinrich/Sef
SG- Kobe/Sef
SF- Deng/Noc
PF- Gooden/FA/2nd rounder
C- Wallace/FA/2nd rounder
QUOTE (steve9347 @ Jun 18 2007, 10:31 AM)
Wow, the latest scenarios are intriguing... with the Bulls only losing PJ, Gordon, Tyrus and the pick... sign me the fish up.
If we can get a deal of this magnitude done, then look out NBA Championships...
If we can get a deal of this magnitude done, then look out NBA Championships...
Man, I'd hate to give up TT though.
throw in the Lakers #19 pick and it would be tough to say no.
I feel like I'm being too loyal to our own players but we CANNOT give up Deng or TT. Look at how the NBA is evolving. They are the front line of the future. The new nba is versatile forwards who are fast, long, and athletic and can switch everything. Neither TT nor Deng are in terrible matchups is forced to switch onto a PF, SF, or SG.
What Marvin Williams and Josh smith are supposed to be. What Marion and Diaw are. Nowitski and Howard. Bosh and Bargnani. Jamison and Butler. Odom and walton. Any golden state starting lineup. Maybe seatle with Durant and Lewis. Maybe memphis with brandan wright and Gay.
Deng and TT are the perfect inside-out, offense-defense, fire and ice combo. But they both score and are both good defenders (i am 100% convinced tyrus will be great) In two years they could be better AND more affordable than any of these combos.
Knowing that Paxson seems to be cautious to say the least to deal his own draft picks, i hope he will choose not to break them up at any cost.
What Marvin Williams and Josh smith are supposed to be. What Marion and Diaw are. Nowitski and Howard. Bosh and Bargnani. Jamison and Butler. Odom and walton. Any golden state starting lineup. Maybe seatle with Durant and Lewis. Maybe memphis with brandan wright and Gay.
Deng and TT are the perfect inside-out, offense-defense, fire and ice combo. But they both score and are both good defenders (i am 100% convinced tyrus will be great) In two years they could be better AND more affordable than any of these combos.
Knowing that Paxson seems to be cautious to say the least to deal his own draft picks, i hope he will choose not to break them up at any cost.
thats a very good point, i dont think pax should give up deng or tyrus nor do i think he will.
While I agree that Deng and Thomas could be a great combo one day, I would not hesitate one bit to trade Thomas if Kobe Bryant is going to be playing in a Bulls jersey. If all it takes is Gordon, Nocioni, Duhon, Thomas, and the 9th pick, I can't see the Bulls saying no.
IMO, Deng is untouchable, unless someone offers you a superstar straight up for him.
He wouldn't be giving up on him, he'd be letting him go because the best player of the last decade will be joining his team.
IMO, Deng is untouchable, unless someone offers you a superstar straight up for him.
QUOTE (DutheDoduhon21 @ Jun 18 2007, 11:42 PM)
thats a very good point, i dont think pax should give up deng or tyrus nor do i think he will.
He wouldn't be giving up on him, he'd be letting him go because the best player of the last decade will be joining his team.
if you give up both TT and the #9 you have a terrible hole at the 4. You'd basically HAVE to sign 3 bigs...2 pfs and a backup c. That would suck.
Even if you assume you get 1-2 players from second round picks or undrafted free agents (3rd pg and 5th bigs who never play) you are still counting on free agency a lot
any chance mario austin could be in the bulls plans to play the 4? He could turn out to be a nice backup.
Even if you assume you get 1-2 players from second round picks or undrafted free agents (3rd pg and 5th bigs who never play) you are still counting on free agency a lot
any chance mario austin could be in the bulls plans to play the 4? He could turn out to be a nice backup.
QUOTE (sport1016 @ Jun 18 2007, 11:55 PM)
if you give up both TT and the #9 you have a terrible hole at the 4. You'd basically HAVE to sign 3 bigs...2 pfs and a backup c. That would suck.
Even if you assume you get 1-2 players from second round picks or undrafted free agents (3rd pg and 5th bigs who never play) you are still counting on free agency a lot
any chance mario austin could be in the bulls plans to play the 4? He could turn out to be a nice backup.
Even if you assume you get 1-2 players from second round picks or undrafted free agents (3rd pg and 5th bigs who never play) you are still counting on free agency a lot
any chance mario austin could be in the bulls plans to play the 4? He could turn out to be a nice backup.
We could get the 19th pick in return, draft Splitter, Gasol, or McRoberts or Smith. Then, with a possible addition of Gooden for Duhon and some future picks, sign a guy like Melvin Ely, Kurt Thomas, Antonio McDyess, etc. Then, something that was a weakness becomes a very solid part of the team. And with that, you've got 2 2nd rounders to add depth at PG and PF/C.
Hinrich/Sefolosha/2nd rounder or Barrett???
Bryant/Sefolosha
Deng/Khryapa
Gooden/McRoberts/2nd rounder/Austin??
Wallace/Thomas
There could be many variations.
SF at 19, PF 49, PG, 51.
PG at 19, PF 49, SF 51.
PF at 19, PG at 49, SF 51.
QUOTE (motownbull71 @ Jun 18 2007, 09:44 PM)
If a deal can be done which would allow us to keep Deng and Hinrich or Gordon, I would say pull the trigger. The concern I would have is what happens in two years when Kobe can opt out of the contract.
You'd have to get a guarentee that he would not opt out as a preface to any trade getting done.
The way Kobe talks about wanting to come to Chicago or New York... he is looking to own a town and he wants to play in the East.
What this says, is I believe an extension would be agreed upon once he arrives in his destination.
What this says, is I believe an extension would be agreed upon once he arrives in his destination.
QUOTE (steve9347 @ Jun 19 2007, 11:19 AM)
The way Kobe talks about wanting to come to Chicago or New York... he is looking to own a town and he wants to play in the East.
What this says, is I believe an extension would be agreed upon once he arrives in his destination.
What this says, is I believe an extension would be agreed upon once he arrives in his destination.
I agree. Not for 1 second would I worry that he wouldn't sign an extension.
I got that weird feeling I got when the Bulls/Ben Wallace whispers started last year. I think this gets done. 
QUOTE
Lakers Begin Trade Talks With Chicago?
19th June, 2007 - 6:06 pm
Ric Bucher/Sports Center -
The Lakers, according to ESPN's Ric Bucher, have held preliminary trade discussions about Kobe Bryant with the Chicago Bulls .
The club has also looked into whether or not they can repair the relationship with Bryant and they have reportedly received a resounding 'no' from their 'back channel' overtures.
19th June, 2007 - 6:06 pm
Ric Bucher/Sports Center -
The Lakers, according to ESPN's Ric Bucher, have held preliminary trade discussions about Kobe Bryant with the Chicago Bulls .
The club has also looked into whether or not they can repair the relationship with Bryant and they have reportedly received a resounding 'no' from their 'back channel' overtures.
Ric Bucher, ESPN
QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jun 19 2007, 10:30 PM)
Ric Bucher, ESPN
I love the sound of this... Go get 'em Pax!
If you can somehow get kobe without giving up deng, TT, and Kirk, we will be in the finals next year GUARaNTEED
QUOTE (sport1016 @ Jun 20 2007, 12:49 AM)
If you can somehow get kobe without giving up deng, TT, and Kirk, we will be in the finals next year GUARaNTEED
Tyrus is as good as gone if we get Kobe. I know I won't be too mad.
I think if u give up BG, NOC, and the 9 pick, that's 3 prospects, and maybe u just use duhon and PJ as cap filler. Add a couple fuutre firsts instead of TT or sef....
TT is just such a unique player. I was so mad when the bulls drafted him. But he has that quality that Jordan had and Reggie had and that kobe has and that dwade has and that VC and Tmac don't. He has the killer instinct. The desire to dominate every second he's in the game. Match that up with Josh Smith's skill set and you have an Amare meets Kirilenko multi time all star and future DPOYs. He plays the style of future nba PFs, he fits perfectly into our system of generating turnovers and running the fast break. He is a turnover creating machine with blocks and steals (his ability to get into the passing lanes in amazing for a big man). Unlike some recent high picks (ahem tyson and eddy) whenever he played big minutes he put up numbers. Imagine when he actually learns to play offense instead of just relying on his athleticism. I think if Tyrus can hit the weights a bit he can be a full time pf averaging 16.5 pts, 10.5 rbs, 3.5 bpg, 2.2spg and hopefully under 4 TOs......in 2 years or less. Put him with deng and Kirk and you're almost there. Imagine having kobe too.
IMO unless you can put deng, TT, and Krich around Kobe, you dont have the right championship nucleus and u forget it....play hardball, the lakers seem to be short on options
TT is just such a unique player. I was so mad when the bulls drafted him. But he has that quality that Jordan had and Reggie had and that kobe has and that dwade has and that VC and Tmac don't. He has the killer instinct. The desire to dominate every second he's in the game. Match that up with Josh Smith's skill set and you have an Amare meets Kirilenko multi time all star and future DPOYs. He plays the style of future nba PFs, he fits perfectly into our system of generating turnovers and running the fast break. He is a turnover creating machine with blocks and steals (his ability to get into the passing lanes in amazing for a big man). Unlike some recent high picks (ahem tyson and eddy) whenever he played big minutes he put up numbers. Imagine when he actually learns to play offense instead of just relying on his athleticism. I think if Tyrus can hit the weights a bit he can be a full time pf averaging 16.5 pts, 10.5 rbs, 3.5 bpg, 2.2spg and hopefully under 4 TOs......in 2 years or less. Put him with deng and Kirk and you're almost there. Imagine having kobe too.
IMO unless you can put deng, TT, and Krich around Kobe, you dont have the right championship nucleus and u forget it....play hardball, the lakers seem to be short on options
QUOTE (sport1016 @ Jun 20 2007, 01:04 AM)
I think if u give up BG, NOC, and the 9 pick, that's 3 prospects, and maybe u just use duhon and PJ as cap filler. Add a couple fuutre firsts instead of TT or sef....
TT is just such a unique player. I was so mad when the bulls drafted him. But he has that quality that Jordan had and Reggie had and that kobe has and that dwade has and that VC and Tmac don't. He has the killer instinct. The desire to dominate every second he's in the game. Match that up with Josh Smith's skill set and you have an Amare meets Kirilenko multi time all star and future DPOYs. He plays the style of future nba PFs, he fits perfectly into our system of generating turnovers and running the fast break. He is a turnover creating machine with blocks and steals (his ability to get into the passing lanes in amazing for a big man). Unlike some recent high picks (ahem tyson and eddy) whenever he played big minutes he put up numbers. Imagine when he actually learns to play offense instead of just relying on his athleticism. I think if Tyrus can hit the weights a bit he can be a full time pf averaging 16.5 pts, 10.5 rbs, 3.5 bpg, 2.2spg and hopefully under 4 TOs......in 2 years or less. Put him with deng and Kirk and you're almost there. Imagine having kobe too.
IMO unless you can put deng, TT, and Krich around Kobe, you dont have the right championship nucleus and u forget it....play hardball, the lakers seem to be short on options
TT is just such a unique player. I was so mad when the bulls drafted him. But he has that quality that Jordan had and Reggie had and that kobe has and that dwade has and that VC and Tmac don't. He has the killer instinct. The desire to dominate every second he's in the game. Match that up with Josh Smith's skill set and you have an Amare meets Kirilenko multi time all star and future DPOYs. He plays the style of future nba PFs, he fits perfectly into our system of generating turnovers and running the fast break. He is a turnover creating machine with blocks and steals (his ability to get into the passing lanes in amazing for a big man). Unlike some recent high picks (ahem tyson and eddy) whenever he played big minutes he put up numbers. Imagine when he actually learns to play offense instead of just relying on his athleticism. I think if Tyrus can hit the weights a bit he can be a full time pf averaging 16.5 pts, 10.5 rbs, 3.5 bpg, 2.2spg and hopefully under 4 TOs......in 2 years or less. Put him with deng and Kirk and you're almost there. Imagine having kobe too.
IMO unless you can put deng, TT, and Krich around Kobe, you dont have the right championship nucleus and u forget it....play hardball, the lakers seem to be short on options
You are really going out on a limb giving Thomas that much credit.
And I'm sorry, but when I read "But he has that quality that Jordan had and Reggie had and that kobe has" my eyes nearly popped out of my head.
Come on. Do you see the energy and desire he plays with compared to guys like eddy, tyson, or crawford. Or even guys like Tmac and VC. He tries to block ever shot, steal every pass, get every rebound. Once he learns to control himself more, he is going to be special. He's ak47's blocking with marion's length and speed and amare's athletic explosion. If he realizes his potential, he could be great. And like i said before, i hated the pick at the time. There's a reason paxson traded the exact kind of pf/c we are looking for right now. TT is special.
Anyway....I was watching some of Thabo's midrange moves and I had another thought about kobe
we should trade for him bc
1) He's the best player in the league-unlike lebron and dwade he has 3 rings
2) he's the most clutch player in the league--watch this and see if YOU could go back to watching BG http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2yzNQWFYko
3) Thabo could fill in at the 3 admirably and score either in the starting lineup or off the bench
4) Kobe is probably the best defensive SG in the league. If not he's close. He and Kirk would be the best defensive backcourt in the league. And that finally solves our small backourt problem
5) It would be fun to watch kobe and kirk on Team usa together build chemistry. Maybe kobe could demand that kirk start or he'll suit up for Italy.
I think if the bulls are willing to part with Deng, we can get a deal done for Kobe...as much as I hate to say it sef can reproduce a decent % or what deng gave at sf...so maybe kirk and TT are the least replaceable bc of TT's uniqueness and the lack of good PGs in the league.
so how about Gordon, Deng, sign and trade PJ and Noce-should get u to 20 million
gives u rotation of
hinrich/duhon
Kobe/sef/Griffin
Sefolosha/griffin/Khryapa
MLE FA/TT
Wallace/#9
or how about Gordon, Deng, wallace, and a 2008 first
gives u a rotation of
Hinrich/duhon
Kobe/Sef
Noc/sef/Griffin/khryapa
TT/#9/PJ
MLE FA/#9/PJ
is that too much? Would the lakers go for either of these?
Anyway....I was watching some of Thabo's midrange moves and I had another thought about kobe
we should trade for him bc
1) He's the best player in the league-unlike lebron and dwade he has 3 rings
2) he's the most clutch player in the league--watch this and see if YOU could go back to watching BG http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2yzNQWFYko
3) Thabo could fill in at the 3 admirably and score either in the starting lineup or off the bench
4) Kobe is probably the best defensive SG in the league. If not he's close. He and Kirk would be the best defensive backcourt in the league. And that finally solves our small backourt problem
5) It would be fun to watch kobe and kirk on Team usa together build chemistry. Maybe kobe could demand that kirk start or he'll suit up for Italy.
I think if the bulls are willing to part with Deng, we can get a deal done for Kobe...as much as I hate to say it sef can reproduce a decent % or what deng gave at sf...so maybe kirk and TT are the least replaceable bc of TT's uniqueness and the lack of good PGs in the league.
so how about Gordon, Deng, sign and trade PJ and Noce-should get u to 20 million
gives u rotation of
hinrich/duhon
Kobe/sef/Griffin
Sefolosha/griffin/Khryapa
MLE FA/TT
Wallace/#9
or how about Gordon, Deng, wallace, and a 2008 first
gives u a rotation of
Hinrich/duhon
Kobe/Sef
Noc/sef/Griffin/khryapa
TT/#9/PJ
MLE FA/#9/PJ
is that too much? Would the lakers go for either of these?
3 way trade people...
QUOTE (Bullseye @ Jun 20 2007, 02:15 AM)
3 way trade people...
yep a 3 way deal is the only way a trade like this will ever occur. There are talks that Boston may get involved and throw Pierce in there as they will also want a piece of the Bulls core.
Example:
Bulls get: Kobe Bryant
Lakers get: Paul Pierce, Bulls 9th pick
Celtics get: Andreas Nocioni (sign and trade), Ben Gordon, and Tyrus Thomas
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