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BG7
What do the Bulls need to be a serious championship calibre team? A power forward who can give us about 10-12 ppg and 5-6 rpg in the low post. A power forward who has good post moves and carries a high field goal percentage. A power forward who we can dump the ball down low to get high percentage shots when our outside shots aren't falling. A power foward who plays good defense.

What are we wishing/obsessing for? Kobe. A player who is a proven prolific scorer, but is a rogue to the team. A player who is a phenomenal athlete, but has proven to make bad decisions that revolve around the lack of being a team player. A type I don't see fitting into Skiles' tough mentality of team efficiency and ball distribution. He brings to the team someone who we can give the ball to in critical end game situations, but has proven to make bad decisions with the ball at times, proving the fact that he isn't exactly a player who is oriented around his team. He wants to become an icon of a city (which he already is), and to lead that team to a championship while being the icon, which isn't the mentality of any of our current players.

Therefore, ADDRESS OUR NEED, NOT WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE. Our team is as COMPLETE as any team could possibly be IF WE GOT A GOOD POWER FORWARD!

Our Primary Option: Draft Spencer Hawes.
DutheDoduhon21
amen. to everything you said.
rangercal
besides detroit, how many teams have won an NBA CHAMPIONSHIP without a superstar? (I don't see Deng ever climbing in into that category)
DrunkBomber
I agree with the original post but I also wouldnt MIND getting Kobe if it didnt cost us insanely too much. It appears he is gonna be traded and all media outlets have us as serious players to get him.
taurus515th
QUOTE (rangercal @ Jun 19 2007, 06:22 PM) *
besides detroit, how many teams have won an NBA CHAMPIONSHIP without a superstar? (I don't see Deng ever climbing in into that category)


and yet not every superstar is guaranteed to win a championship for the simple fact that for the past seasons the only teams that have one a championship has had Duncan, Shaq, R. Wallace and B. Wallace in their frontcourt.

i agree with BG7 all we need is a post-player.
taurus515th
QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Jun 19 2007, 06:57 PM) *
It appears he is gonna be traded and all media outlets have us as serious players to get him.


All the media outlets have us as serious players to get him because they dont like Chicago. When have u heard announcers/media people actually say anything possible about us or predictions to win a series?

Chicago doesnt get any respect, no Bulls players were all-stars because they dont like us. The closer we are to winning a championship the media wants us to dismantle the team. Last season the media said we need a 20 point scorer. We needed one and Gordon was that guy, now they want us to trade him? The Wallace signing. Who else would we use the 60 million on. Drew Gooden please Nocioni is much better than him. Nene was hurt at the time. Harrington? Deng is going to be better than him. Those were all the decent bigs available. Everyone is saying that we should have traded our BEST player Deng for Gasol? They say we cant win without a post-player which is true but yet does Phoenix have a post-player i dont see Amare using a bask to the basket game i just c a time that doesnt play denfense and rely on jump shots. How many teams have won runnin and gunnin without playing defense to win a championship. None

Dont listen to the media. NYK is the best team that can get KOBE without losing anything but will the Lakers talk on bad contracts NO.......What team wants to rebuild with a bunch of bad contracts.
dasox24
QUOTE (taurus515th @ Jun 19 2007, 07:14 PM) *
All the media outlets have us as serious players to get him because they dont like Chicago. When have u heard announcers/media people actually say anything possible about us or predictions to win a series?

Chicago doesnt get any respect, no Bulls players were all-stars because they dont like us. The closer we are to winning a championship the media wants us to dismantle the team. Last season the media said we need a 20 point scorer. We needed one and Gordon was that guy, now they want us to trade him? The Wallace signing. Who else would we use the 60 million on. Drew Gooden please Nocioni is much better than him. Nene was hurt at the time. Harrington? Deng is going to be better than him. Those were all the decent bigs available. Everyone is saying that we should have traded our BEST player Deng for Gasol? They say we cant win without a post-player which is true but yet does Phoenix have a post-player i dont see Amare using a bask to the basket game i just c a time that doesnt play denfense and rely on jump shots. How many teams have won runnin and gunnin without playing defense to win a championship. None

Dont listen to the media. NYK is the best team that can get KOBE without losing anything but will the Lakers talk on bad contracts NO.......What team wants to rebuild with a bunch of bad contracts.

You can dislike the idea of getting Kobe, but saying that the only reason we're linked to him is b/c "the media doesn't like" us is rediculous. Kobe himself has said where he wants to go (3 teams with us being one) and we have some great young talent to offer the Lakers. That's why we're linked to a Kobe trade.
sport1016
taurus I agree with your post completely.

Except that Amare is a post player.

And you're right. Deng at 21 averaged 19 and 7. Gasol at 26 gives u 21 and 10. You have to believe that deng can give u at least something similar at 26 if not more.

Kobe is one of the best ever. And no team has won a championship lately without having one of the best players of all time. But a franchise player doesn't give you a championship. YOu need 2 and a half. Jordan and Scottie were two. Paxson/BJ and Grant added up to a half. Rodman and Kukoc were at least a half of a franchise player each. That's why the '96 bulls are the consensus best team ever.

Duncan is one, parker and ginobili are each .75 = 2.5

Wade and Shaq one each and walker/posey/mourning/jwill add up to one half = 2.5

Pistons= billups, rip, tay, sheed, and bwall are all a half of a franchise player = 2.5

Tyrus and deng both have the potential to be franchise guys or close. Gordon and Hinrich help.

What am i saying?

If you can get kobe without fleecing the team, you should. We won't win it all (which doesnt mean we wont get to the finals in a weak east) until we have a top player. Giving up too much, and we won't have the 2.5 franchise players we need. Don't trade for kobe, and no matter who u keep you might never get there.
motownbull71
QUOTE (BG7 @ Jun 19 2007, 05:54 PM) *
What do the Bulls need to be a serious championship calibre team? A power forward who can give us about 10-12 ppg and 5-6 rpg in the low post. A power forward who has good post moves and carries a high field goal percentage. A power forward who we can dump the ball down low to get high percentage shots when our outside shots aren't falling. A power foward who plays good defense.

What are we wishing/obsessing for? Kobe. A player who is a proven prolific scorer, but is a rogue to the team. A player who is a phenomenal athlete, but has proven to make bad decisions that revolve around the lack of being a team player. A type I don't see fitting into Skiles' tough mentality of team efficiency and ball distribution. He brings to the team someone who we can give the ball to in critical end game situations, but has proven to make bad decisions with the ball at times, proving the fact that he isn't exactly a player who is oriented around his team. He wants to become an icon of a city (which he already is), and to lead that team to a championship while being the icon, which isn't the mentality of any of our current players.

Therefore, ADDRESS OUR NEED, NOT WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE. Our team is as COMPLETE as any team could possibly be IF WE GOT A GOOD POWER FORWARD!

Our Primary Option: Draft Spencer Hawes.

A PF that only scores 10-12 ppg is not a serious threat and does not demand a double team. We need someone who demands a double team and can get to the free throw line. This describes Kobe. If we can get Kobe without giving up Deng and Hinrich I would be happy.
Balta1701-B
QUOTE (sport1016 @ Jun 19 2007, 05:42 PM) *
And no team has won a championship lately without having one of the best players of all time.

Detroit?
b-riann
QUOTE (Balta1701-B @ Jun 20 2007, 07:36 PM) *
Detroit?

we've established already that detroit is the only team that has won a title w/o any superstars
ZoomSlowik
QUOTE (motownbull71 @ Jun 20 2007, 06:03 PM) *
A PF that only scores 10-12 ppg is not a serious threat and does not demand a double team. We need someone who demands a double team and can get to the free throw line. This describes Kobe. If we can get Kobe without giving up Deng and Hinrich I would be happy.


If we could get a PF that could consistently score that much we'd be fine. Teams already come at Gordon with 2 defenders when he gets the ball coming off a screen with regularity, and with another year of work under his belt Deng will draw considerably more attention as well. Add those two guys averaging around 20 a game to Hinrich in the mid-teens and a power forward in the low double figures (whether it be Tyrus, a draft pick, or a FA/trade acquisition) you've got a pretty well rounded lineup that can do some major damage.
sport1016
Sheed has only averaged around 14ppg for the pistons, but any time he catches it in the post, they have to double him and it leaves open shooters. That's all we need. Someone who can draw a double down low.
Balta1701-B
QUOTE (sport1016 @ Jun 21 2007, 06:11 AM) *
Sheed has only averaged around 14ppg for the pistons, but any time he catches it in the post, they have to double him and it leaves open shooters. That's all we need. Someone who can draw a double down low.

They don't even need to draw a double as much as they do be able to open up the lane. If you don't have any low post scoring threat, then opposing defenders in the paint can feel free to come off their man if either Deng, Gordon, or Hinrich try to drive into the lane. If you get a guy who is a reliable scoring option in the post, that opens up the lane, because if a defender leaves his man to double a driving Gordon or Deng, then that leaves your big guy open for a layup or dunk. It's the Tony Parker/Tim Duncan syndrome; Tony Parker is a hell of a lot better of a driving player because no one in the world is going to leave Tim Duncan open to collapse on Parker when he drives.

Simply forcing other teams to be more balanced, rather than being able to focus their defense on our guards, will do wonders, even if whoever we find is not deserving of a double team. You have to stay at home so much more with a low post scoring threat; you can't just stick 4 guys at the 3 point line and dare our guys to shoot any more.
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