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Chisoxfn
QUOTE
According to a league source, Bulls talks with the Memphis Grizzlies about power forward-center Pau Gasol are expected to reopen in the near future.

Prior to the February trade deadline, the two sides had serious discussions about a Gasol trade but couldn't agree on the terms.

The Bulls were believed to have offered a package that included Gordon, forward P.J. Brown and a first-round draft pick. But the Grizzlies insisted that Deng be part of the deal, a price the front office considered to be exorbitant.

Since then, Jerry West has stepped down as Grizzlies operations chief. Earlier this week, his successor, Chris Wallace, suggested he would listen to any and all trade proposals this summer.

"I don't think anybody is untouchable on any team," Wallace was quoted to have said. "Shaquille O'Neal was traded. Wilt Chamberlain was traded. If the right deal comes your way, anybody in this league can be traded. But at the same time, Marc (Iavaroni, head coach) and I aren't out there actively trying to move these players."

The Bulls also could renew discussions with the Seattle SuperSonics in regard to forward Nick Collison, about whom they inquired recently.

The addition of Collison would help appease guard Hinrich, who remains the only player on the roster close to untouchable status despite his subpar postseason performance. Collison and Hinrich are close friends and one-time Kansas roommates.

On Thursday, the SuperSonics acquired forward Jeff Green in a deal that sent Ray Allen to Boston, a move that would appear to make Collison expendable at this time.

"You always have a lot of conversations, but nothing really came of it at the very end," Paxson said of trade talks in recent days. "We'll still try to improve our basketball team. We now that we need a low-post scorer in some capacity. Those are the things that we'll address as we go forward. It's a piece-by-piece process."

This is a snippet out of the Daily Southtown. I think the Bulls would consider offering Ben Gordon, Andres Nocioni, a future #1 and Chris Duhon for Paul Gasol. The only major question is would Memphis be willing to take that type of salary without getting a cheap young player in return (however Gordon and Noc are both relatively young as is Duhon).

Or would Gordon (or Noc), Noah or Thomas, PJ Brown (resigned and traded for salary purposes) and Chris Duhon work.

In terms of Nick Collison, it would clearly take a lesser package and I would have no problem doing so as Collison is a pretty darn solid 4 who still has some potential and would be a good fit that wouldn't cost any of the main core.
madisonsmadhouse
I'd love to see Collison on this team if the price isn't crazy. We still need some front court depth, and I think we could make something work with Seattle.
cars
QUOTE (madisonsmadhouse @ Jun 29 2007, 12:44 PM) *
I'd love to see Collison on this team if the price isn't crazy. We still need some front court depth, and I think we could make something work with Seattle.


Can someone explain the Nick Collison love? I may be missing something, I think he's a solid lunch pail type of player, but for 5 more years and 33 million?
madisonsmadhouse
QUOTE (cars @ Jun 29 2007, 12:49 PM) *
Can someone explain the Nick Collison love? I may be missing something, I think he's a solid lunch pail type of player, but for 5 more years and 33 million?


Look at our men in the middle. What about Malik Allen, PJ Brown, Michael Sweetney and company wouldn't make Nick Collison look good?
Wanne
QUOTE
The addition of Collison would help appease guard Hinrich


Appease Hinrich?!? blink.gif
I didn't realize he was peased off? Collison does absolutely NOTHING for me.
As for other trades...not too crazy giving up Gordon. At this point...does this team really need any more 1st round rookies for a few years? Hell...I'd dangle Noah, Noc and Duhon and the next 2 first rounders for Gasol.

Per Majia
QUOTE
Memphis: The choice came down to Mike Conley Jr. and Joakim Noah, and the first big move of the Chris Wallace/Marc Iavaroni era was ultimately the right one. Although Noah's size and mobility are intriguing and perfect for the open cour



I read out here also that the Suns had targeted Noah in moving up to the 8th spot. Hell...let's get a three-way going with Phoenix and Memphis throwing out the parties mentioned above...with Marion going to Memphis. Of course my first preference is trying to pry Yi away from Milwaukee.
Steve9347
Nick Collison... drool.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Jun 29 2007, 01:15 PM) *
Appease Hinrich?!? blink.gif
I didn't realize he was peased off? Collison does absolutely NOTHING for me.
As for other trades...not too crazy giving up Gordon. At this point...does this team really need any more 1st round rookies for a few years? Hell...I'd dangle Noah, Noc and Duhon and the next 2 first rounders for Gasol.

Per Majia
I read out here also that the Suns had targeted Noah in moving up to the 8th spot. Hell...let's get a three-way going with Phoenix and Memphis throwing out the parties mentioned above...with Marion going to Memphis. Of course my first preference is trying to pry Yi away from Milwaukee.


getting Yi from Milwaukee... what would that take us??

Noc+Noah?? that's not a bad haul for the Bucs, right? of course, thats two energy players... Noah+Gordon is too much...

what to consider?
eddog2
I would be somewhat upset if we traded Gordon now to get Gasol. Why wouldn't we have done that before the draft? Then we could have known who we really wanted to draft. However, I think that if we trade Gordon for Gasol we could then offer Deshawn Stevenson a $5-6 million contract. He's 6'5" and can hit the 3. Exactly what we'd need if we traded Gordon. Not sure if he'd sign for that little but a lineup of:

Wallace/Noah/Gray
Gasol/Tyrus
Deng/Tyrus
Stevenson/Sefolosha/Curry
Hinrich/Sefolosha/Curry

would look pretty damn good.


Would Gordon, Duhon, Khryapa & Nocioni work for Gasol? We could also throw in a couple of future picks.

We'd then have the best lineup in the game and we'd have some serious depth. The only issue would be giving Deng a huge extension. The players listed above would total

Gasol $13.7
Wallace $15.5
Kirk $11
Deng $12-15
Tyrus $3.5
Thabo $1.8
Stevenson $5
Noah $1.8
Griffin $1.5

That equals $65.8 million if Deng is paid $12 million and $68.8 million if Deng is paid $15 million. That would probably be right around the luxury tax amount. However, we'd still need to sign Gray and Curry. Maybe to like $600K each and we'd need another 4 players. We'd be slightly over the cap. However if Deng only got $12 million I think we could stay around or under the cap if we paid him a low salary and his salary increased each year while Wallace's and Deng's decreased each year.

I think Jerry would be okay spending the money for this lineup.
SoxFan1
No way we go into this season with Tyrus being our primary backup at SF and PF. Thats just bad. I'd much rather have Thabo starting with some great D against the big SG's like Vince Carter. Either way, you makes up for Gordon's scoring with Gasol. Give Melvin Ely or Antonio McDyess the Mid Level exception and call it day.
dasox24
QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jun 29 2007, 04:46 PM) *
No way we go into this season with Tyrus being our primary backup at SF and PF. Thats just bad. I'd much rather have Thabo starting with some great D against the big SG's like Vince Carter. Either way, you makes up for Gordon's scoring with Gasol. Give Melvin Ely or Antonio McDyess the Mid Level exception and call it day.

What's so bad about TT being the backup at SF and PF? I mean, we are talking about a guy that'll be getting 20-25 minutes if we acquire Gasol in the aforementioned trade. We gotta give something up to get something and I'm sure Noc would have to be included in a Gasol trade. So, who do you want (that would be better than Tyrus) backing up at the SF spot if we trade Noc and add Gasol? I don't see anyone on the FA market at the MLE that would be a better option than Tyrus.
Chicago Bulls Franchise
Unless Pau can play center he won't be on the team unless Tyrus is involved in the trade. Basically, whoever we get thats a big man it has to be a center because Tyrus is the starting Pf for the future and having Gasol would make Tyrus worthless and I don't see that happening because Pax has expressed his loyalty to Tyrus many times even saying "He was untouchable".
Wanne
QUOTE (Chicago Bulls Franchise @ Jun 29 2007, 09:09 PM) *
Unless Pau can play center he won't be on the team unless Tyrus is involved in the trade. Basically, whoever we get thats a big man it has to be a center because Tyrus is the starting Pf for the future and having Gasol would make Tyrus worthless and I don't see that happening because Pax has expressed his loyalty to Tyrus many times even saying "He was untouchable".


Wrong. The team neads a scoring PF...period. Pau would be a PF. Has nothing to do with getting rid of Tyrus (which he isn't going anywhere).
Chicago Bulls Franchise
QUOTE (Wanne @ Jun 29 2007, 09:26 PM) *
Wrong. The team neads a scoring PF...period. Pau would be a PF. Has nothing to do with getting rid of Tyrus (which he isn't going anywhere).


If Pau plays PF that means Tyrus will be a wasted pick. Paxson doesn't want to do that, he wants to see him play and see if he will amount to anything. Having Pau there would hinder that oppurtunity.
SoxFan1
QUOTE (Chicago Bulls Franchise @ Jun 29 2007, 09:09 PM) *
Unless Pau can play center he won't be on the team unless Tyrus is involved in the trade. Basically, whoever we get thats a big man it has to be a center because Tyrus is the starting Pf for the future and having Gasol would make Tyrus worthless and I don't see that happening because Pax has expressed his loyalty to Tyrus many times even saying "He was untouchable".

Because the Bulls go with the prototypical 5 man starting nba rotation...come on. We've gone head over heels for Tyrus this offseason. Tyrus Thomas can kick rocks if he lands us Pau Gasol.

"Gasol would make Tyrus worthless" LMAO. Because it would be absolutely impossible to play them at the same time. GMAB.

QUOTE (Chicago Bulls Franchise @ Jun 29 2007, 10:06 PM) *
If Pau plays PF that means Tyrus will be a wasted pick. Paxson doesn't want to do that, he wants to see him play and see if he will amount to anything. Having Pau there would hinder that oppurtunity.

No it would not. They can play at the same time. How does that not make sense to you. You make it seem like TT is some sor of proven NBA player that should play 48 minutes a game. Get real. He's still very very raw and he does not deserve to have a starting position handed to him.
Chicago Bulls Franchise
In the future, Pau is just beginning to reach his prime. Tyrus won't be starting until Pau is gone unless he plays center.
SoxFan1
QUOTE (Chicago Bulls Franchise @ Jun 29 2007, 10:17 PM) *
In the future, Pau is just beginning to reach his prime. Tyrus won't be starting until Pau is gone unless he plays center.

Hmm, tough freaking choice, and tough like to Tyrus.

Gasol + Wallace > Tyrus + Wallace

Either way, Gasol can play center. If Joakim Noah can play center, and Jeff Green can play PF, then Gasol can sure as hell do it too.
Chicago Bulls Franchise
QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jun 29 2007, 10:20 PM) *
Hmm, tough freaking choice, and tough like to Tyrus.

Gasol + Wallace > Tyrus + Wallace

Either way, Gasol can play center. If Joakim Noah can play center, and Jeff Green can play PF, then Gasol can sure as hell do it too.


I don't doubt you, like you said, Gasol and Wallace is better than Tyrus and Wallace but if Pax's plan is to develop Tyrus to his fullest potential, he wouldn't be doing that with Pau in front of him.
SoxFan1
QUOTE (Chicago Bulls Franchise @ Jun 29 2007, 10:25 PM) *
I don't doubt you, like you said, Gasol and Wallace is better than Tyrus and Wallace but if Pax's plan is to develop Tyrus to his fullest potential, he wouldn't be doing that with Pau in front of him.

Tyrus will not reach his fullest potential for at least 2 or 3 more years. How does having him learn from Pau and Ben make that any worse? It's absolutely win-win. Pau and Wallace give us one of the best front court duo's in the NBA and automatic favorites in the East. Tyrus waits in the wings for 2-3 years, learning and working along the way, until Wallace leaves/retires. Tyrus fills in at PF, Pau to center, and you still have a very good frontcourt.

The Chicago Bulls are not Tyrus Thomas and Tyrus Thomas is not the Chicago Bulls. Get that through our head. He has done nothing to warrant any really high praise and he has done nothing to inherit and step right into a starting role. He is still very very raw. Little offensive game, tends to be out of control, and makes silly mistakes. He has a long, LONG way to go.
soxfan101
Pao can play C fine, he prefers to play PF but if he is on a winning team he will do whatever we need him to do. Id love a chance to get Gasol.
eddog2
QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jun 29 2007, 10:27 PM) *
Tyrus will not reach his fullest potential for at least 2 or 3 more years. How does having him learn from Pau and Ben make that any worse? It's absolutely win-win. Pau and Wallace give us one of the best front court duo's in the NBA and automatic favorites in the East. Tyrus waits in the wings for 2-3 years, learning and working along the way, until Wallace leaves/retires. Tyrus fills in at PF, Pau to center, and you still have a very good frontcourt.

The Chicago Bulls are not Tyrus Thomas and Tyrus Thomas is not the Chicago Bulls. Get that through our head. He has done nothing to warrant any really high praise and he has done nothing to inherit and step right into a starting role. He is still very very raw. Little offensive game, tends to be out of control, and makes silly mistakes. He has a long, LONG way to go.


I agree with you finally. He has done nothing to warrant a starting position or to warrant high praise. However, he does deserve at least 20 mpg. That's why I have him as the primary backup to Gasol & Deng at PF & SF. He has to get minutes in the next couple of years to learn how to play the game. I fully agree that he's not ready to start. Having Gasol like you said allows him to grow as a player and at some point in the future you can possibly move Gasol to center and make TT the starting PF if he improves his game significantly. Or you can always trade Gasol in the future to save money and make a spot for Tyrus if Noah solidifies the starting center spot for the next 10 years (by adding 30 pounds to his frame).
ZoomSlowik
Pau would be fine at center, he has pretty good bulk for his size at 260, and obviously has the athleticism. With Wallace or Tyrus at the other spot his defense wouldn't be all that much of an issue, plus you're going to double the guys he can't handle anyways...

We definitely still need to get SOMEONE else inside if we want to be a serious threat soon, a team that has NBA Finals hopes really shouldn't be depending on Thomas or Noah as their starting PF.
SoxFan1
QUOTE (eddog2 @ Jun 30 2007, 02:11 AM) *
I agree with you finally. He has done nothing to warrant a starting position or to warrant high praise. However, he does deserve at least 20 mpg. That's why I have him as the primary backup to Gasol & Deng at PF & SF. He has to get minutes in the next couple of years to learn how to play the game. I fully agree that he's not ready to start. Having Gasol like you said allows him to grow as a player and at some point in the future you can possibly move Gasol to center and make TT the starting PF if he improves his game significantly. Or you can always trade Gasol in the future to save money and make a spot for Tyrus if Noah solidifies the starting center spot for the next 10 years (by adding 30 pounds to his frame).

Agreed 100% There are absolutely no negatives to having both Thomas and Gasol. And I also agree that 20 mpg is solid for him as well. It really doesn't matter the average, as long as he is used consistently. That's the only way he'll grow. You cant use him 3 minutes one night, 37 minutes the next night, and 0 minutes the third. Consistent play against high level competition should, and hopefully will, do him wonders.
Chicago Bulls Franchise
If there aren't any Gasol trades or what have you, Tyrus will be the starting power forward, do we all agree on that? With the current roster, he hasn't "earned" it yet but PJ is pretty old and we don't know if he will be back with us, Malik, or Sweets are as good as gone so Tyrus will have to take over that spot if we don't get another better big guy.

Tyrus will either suprise us all and get alot of double doubles, or he will look like what he did most of last year which is "lost". I think Paxson, I know for Thabo atleast, said he wants Skiles to play him more.
eddog2
QUOTE (Chicago Bulls Franchise @ Jul 1 2007, 11:57 AM) *
If there aren't any Gasol trades or what have you, Tyrus will be the starting power forward, do we all agree on that? With the current roster, he hasn't "earned" it yet but PJ is pretty old and we don't know if he will be back with us, Malik, or Sweets are as good as gone so Tyrus will have to take over that spot if we don't get another better big guy.

Tyrus will either suprise us all and get alot of double doubles, or he will look like what he did most of last year which is "lost". I think Paxson, I know for Thabo atleast, said he wants Skiles to play him more.


I wouldn't mind him being the starter to gain experience but I really don't see him being our starter next year. I really think we'd either re-sign PJ or we are going to make a trade to bring in someone like Gooden/Gasol/Collison ect. The player we bring in might not be a superstar but they will probably be more ready to start than Tyrus.

I could even see us starting Noah at the 4 next year. So I'd say Tyrus starting is anything but close to becoming a real thing.
Chisoxfn
QUOTE (steve9347 @ Jun 29 2007, 11:50 AM) *
Nick Collison... drool.
getting Yi from Milwaukee... what would that take us??

Noc+Noah?? that's not a bad haul for the Bucs, right? of course, thats two energy players... Noah+Gordon is too much...

what to consider?

Noah and Noc is insanely too much to give up for Yi. You better be getting some other player back or a future 1st or something.

Duhon and Noah would be a move that could potentially get the Bucks to think (usually it wouldn't be enough value but if Yi's camp has a gun to the Bucks heads they may just take that deal).
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