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BG7
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2924228

Well, now we can scratch off Lewis as a potential Bull.

Man, the East is getting considerably better. Knicks improved, Boston improved, now Orlando improved.

It's all good, because I think we have a team with Joakim now. I have full faith in Paxson's pick, and really think it was a smart one. He will impress in his rookie season.
ZoomSlowik
He wasn't going to be a Bull anyways, you knew he was going to get at least $12 mil a year, which we just couldn't pull off...
b-riann
can you imagine if billups went to seattle? billups, durant, and green. wow
Chicago Bulls Franchise
Damn, it makes you wonder what Deng will get when its his time. I say we'd be lucky if we got him for 60/5 yr.
madisonsmadhouse
If Deng gets over the 20 points per game mark, he will get a max contract.
BG7
QUOTE (madisonsmadhouse @ Jul 3 2007, 12:46 PM) *
If Deng gets over the 20 points per game mark, he will get a max contract.


I think he's peaking at the absolute perfect time. He will definitely be a 20ppg 8rpg player next season.

Folks, we have a well-balanced squad whose games have grown to fit each other. Captain Kirk, BG7, and Deng are the core of the team. Noah will soon contribute to that effect as well.
eddog2
QUOTE (Chicago Bulls Franchise @ Jul 3 2007, 12:45 PM) *
Damn, it makes you wonder what Deng will get when its his time. I say we'd be lucky if we got him for 60/5 yr.


1st I'd like to start off by telling everyone that I knew Lewis was going to the Magic. I predicted it months ago. Many people doubted my judgement as they did when I said we wouldn't be drafting Hawes.

Oh well.

Anyway, Lewis is better than Deng. Deng may be able to get to Lewis's status but he's not there yet. Lewis is a far better post player and 3 point shooter. He's also slightly (if not a lot) more athletic than Deng. They play 2 totally different styles. Deng probably could command something close to 5 year $60 million but I think the Bulls are stupid if they pay him more than that. That's why I think he's going to get a 5 year $60 llion deal with the 5th year structured as a player option. He'll then be able to opt out and get maximum pay if he truly does become an all-star calliber player.

Watch out for the Magic.
ZoomSlowik
QUOTE (eddog2 @ Jul 3 2007, 06:13 PM) *
1st I'd like to start off by telling everyone that I knew Lewis was going to the Magic. I predicted it months ago. Many people doubted my judgement as they did when I said we wouldn't be drafting Hawes.

Oh well.

Anyway, Lewis is better than Deng. Deng may be able to get to Lewis's status but he's not there yet. Lewis is a far better post player and 3 point shooter. He's also slightly (if not a lot) more athletic than Deng. They play 2 totally different styles. Deng probably could command something close to 5 year $60 million but I think the Bulls are stupid if they pay him more than that. That's why I think he's going to get a 5 year $60 llion deal with the 5th year structured as a player option. He'll then be able to opt out and get maximum pay if he truly does become an all-star calliber player.

Watch out for the Magic.


There were only like 2 teams with enough cap space to sign a max player. blink.gif As for Hawes, if Noah was there, yeah, they were almost certainly going to take him given their recent history. Whatever, seriously off-topic.

I would rather have Deng than Lewis. One major thing is age, Lewis is 5 1/2 years older. Besides the obvious benefit of possibly having him around for 12 or so years to Lewis' 6, Lewis has been in the league for 9 years already while Deng just finished his 3rd, meaning the latter is significantly more likely to improve. Another is defense, Lewis is decent at best, while Deng is pretty solid. Thirdly, Deng is a bit more consistent since he doesn't rely on his long range jumper to produce points and is more effective in the mid-range game and as a slasher. I fully expect both of them to be in the low-20's in points next year, which nullifies Lewis' one major edge production-wise. However, for their needs, Lewis IS a better fit for Orlando because they need an elite outside shooter to draw attention away from Howard.

I'm still not all that afraid of Orlando in the long run unless they do something else, they just have too many holes. They really only have 4 starting-caliber players now with Lewis, Howard, Nelson, and Turkoglu, and the latter is likely to be traded since he's reasonably expensive and plays the same basic role as Lewis. They're also losing one of their two youngsters with the potential for significant improvement with Milicic (the other being Ariza). Since Lewis and Howard aren't on the Kobe/Shaq level (or even T-Mac/Yao), they're still likely a 5-7 seed that may make the 2nd round but not do much else this year, unless of course they do something else to improve.
eddog2
QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 5 2007, 01:42 PM) *
There were only like 2 teams with enough cap space to sign a max player. blink.gif As for Hawes, if Noah was there, yeah, they were almost certainly going to take him given their recent history. Whatever, seriously off-topic.

I would rather have Deng than Lewis. One major thing is age, Lewis is 5 1/2 years older. Besides the obvious benefit of possibly having him around for 12 or so years to Lewis' 6, Lewis has been in the league for 9 years already while Deng just finished his 3rd, meaning the latter is significantly more likely to improve. Another is defense, Lewis is decent at best, while Deng is pretty solid. Thirdly, Deng is a bit more consistent since he doesn't rely on his long range jumper to produce points and is more effective in the mid-range game and as a slasher. I fully expect both of them to be in the low-20's in points next year, which nullifies Lewis' one major edge production-wise. However, for their needs, Lewis IS a better fit for Orlando because they need an elite outside shooter to draw attention away from Howard.

I'm still not all that afraid of Orlando in the long run unless they do something else, they just have too many holes. They really only have 4 starting-caliber players now with Lewis, Howard, Nelson, and Turkoglu, and the latter is likely to be traded since he's reasonably expensive and plays the same basic role as Lewis. They're also losing one of their two youngsters with the potential for significant improvement with Milicic (the other being Ariza). Since Lewis and Howard aren't on the Kobe/Shaq level (or even T-Mac/Yao), they're still likely a 5-7 seed that may make the 2nd round but not do much else this year, unless of course they do something else to improve.


1st I'd like to start off by saying that I predicted the Lewis to Orlando thing before he was even a free agent. Before he opted out. But I would expect that out of you.

Anyway, I'd have to disagree with your stance on how good the Magic are going to be.

A lineup of:

Battie/(D. Howard)
Howard
Lewis/Ariza
Bogans
Nelson/Arroyo

is pretty damn good in the east. Especially considering that the Bulls had no answer for Howard last year. He's only going to be better and commit less turnovers now that Lewis is drawing the double team away from him. You don't give Lewis enough credit for how good he is. What he's going to do is assure us that Deng doesn't make the All-star team next year. It will be him and Lebron going to the game. It's sad b/c I really want Deng to go. Maybe just maybe all 3 will make it.

Anyway, Lewis is better than you think. You think Deng is a good slasher but Lewis is better. He also has a far better post up game. The only problem is he falls in love with the 3. And I don't blame him b/c that's what I do too.

I agree with you about the Turkoglu thing. That's why I predict he's going to be traded. I think we'll see a little more of Redick this year too. As for Milicic, if he doesn't get the offers he wants b/c no team has cap space then I think he's going to do a sign and trade with Orlando possibly to the Hawks. I bet the Hawks would be willing to give up Marvin Williams or Sheldon Williams in a deal for Milicic. Sheldon Williams would probably be more likely and would provide the Magic with a good quality backup PF.

As for Turkoglu, he could be used in a trade to bring in another SG. Possibly to the Kings for Francisco Garcia or John Salmons. Both moves would solidify the Magic's bench at all positions.

I also think the Magic are going to make a move at acquiring another center if they can't re-sign Darko. Chris Mihm, Melvin Ely, or a sign and trade no mentioned earlier for either Turkoglu or Milicic could bring them a decent backup center.
ZoomSlowik
Yeah, I saw that. Not really much of a stretch to guess that he's going to opt out given his previous pay rate. The Deron Williams breakout prediction was much more impressive...

I think you overestimate how good Lewis is just a bit. Yes, he's good, but he's not the kind of guy that is going to go out and get you 25 a game on a regular basis, which is what they really need to compete with that roster (especially if Howard still hasn't learn to be a true dominator on offense, has never even cracked 18 a game yet) and what he'd really have to be for me to take him over a young still-developing star like Deng. He's consistently been a high teens/low 20's type scorer with a mid-40's field goal percentage. His biggest strength is the corner 3, with the rest of his game supporting that. He's good but not great at the other aspects offensively, that's what stops him from becoming an elite scorer like several of the other wing players. Deng doesn't really have to add a whole lot to give you the same type of production (though their styles are different), and given the age difference that's really all he needs for me to take him in my eye.

They can compete in the East, but I don't see that being enough to make serious noise. Unless something happens to Detroit's roster I definitely don't see them being as good as them or the Bulls, New Jersey will be better with Kidd-Carter-Jefferson still around and Kristic back from ACL surgery at some point, I still think Washington will do better led by the Arenas-Butler-Jamison trio, and Toronto will be on a similar level with Bosh and with Bargnani developing a bit. Heck, even Boston should be better with Pierce-Allen-Jefferson, and Cleveland and Miami won't totally fall off the face of the earth with Lebron and Wade even though the rest of the roster is dubious.
Steve9347
Zoom, I REALLY think you underestimate how good Rashard Lewis is...
ZoomSlowik
QUOTE (steve9347 @ Jul 6 2007, 01:55 PM) *
Zoom, I REALLY think you underestimate how good Rashard Lewis is...


How so? I see a guy that's good for about 20-22 points per game at this point in his career that is an okay rebounder and defender and doesn't turn it over a lot. Yeah, that's pretty impressive, but outside of a better outside stroke I really don't see what he does so much better than Deng, who's almost as good right now and is still improving. Even if he is SO much better than Deng as a slasher and post-up player (which I haven't really seen) it doesn't show it in his level of production...

Just look at their PER ratings on ESPN, Deng is at 18.79 (46 overall) and Lewis is at 20.78 (30 overall). That's a pretty slim difference that can almost totally be attributed to the true shooting percentage, where Lewis' 3-point range gives him a pretty good edge. It's also not too much of a stretch to say that Deng can close that gap considerably in the next year or two.
Steve9347
Lewis, when given the chance to be the primary scorer on his team, will score 25 per game easy... shooting 46% from the field considering where he shoots from, his ability to slash, an obvious inside presence... we could see some healthy TMac numbers this year...
eddog2
I wouldn't go into T-mac type numbers, considering he is my favorite player. But he might put up Kevin Durant type numbers (who will be my 2nd favorite player and could possibly become my favorite player eventually).

Zoom you disappoint me b/c you seemed to like Oden so much more than Durant and to be honest you're the reason I really started to pay attention to Durant last year. I knew of him but didn't know much about his game until you started talking about him.

I think both Durant and Lewis will average 25 ppg, 6 plus rpg (with Durant getting about 7-8.5). The only area they won't compare to Tmac is in apg which neither at this point in their career are as good a passer a Tmac.

Zoom, I totally agree with you that the age consideration is where Deng benefits the most. But he's not as good at this point in his career. He won't ever be as athletic but he will be damn good. I love the way Deng moves without the ball. If Deng and continue to work on his post game and if he adds the 3 point shot with consistency in the next 2-3 years then watch out. He's going to be pretty damn good. However, Deng just doesn't appear to be athletic enough to be a franchise player. Don't get me wrong he's definately my favorite player on the Bulls (although I like Gordon a lot and Tyrus was my favorite player that year in college) but he will probably cap out at

24 ppg, 7.5-8 rpg, 4 apg and he's never been a big steals or bpg type player. Those are good numbers but his impact won't be what his numbers make him appear to be. (He's not the type of player that can single handidly take over games)
ZoomSlowik
QUOTE (eddog2 @ Jul 6 2007, 05:22 PM) *
I wouldn't go into T-mac type numbers, considering he is my favorite player. But he might put up Kevin Durant type numbers (who will be my 2nd favorite player and could possibly become my favorite player eventually).

Zoom you disappoint me b/c you seemed to like Oden so much more than Durant and to be honest you're the reason I really started to pay attention to Durant last year. I knew of him but didn't know much about his game until you started talking about him.

I think both Durant and Lewis will average 25 ppg, 6 plus rpg (with Durant getting about 7-8.5). The only area they won't compare to Tmac is in apg which neither at this point in their career are as good a passer a Tmac.

Zoom, I totally agree with you that the age consideration is where Deng benefits the most. But he's not as good at this point in his career. He won't ever be as athletic but he will be damn good. I love the way Deng moves without the ball. If Deng and continue to work on his post game and if he adds the 3 point shot with consistency in the next 2-3 years then watch out. He's going to be pretty damn good. However, Deng just doesn't appear to be athletic enough to be a franchise player. Don't get me wrong he's definately my favorite player on the Bulls (although I like Gordon a lot and Tyrus was my favorite player that year in college) but he will probably cap out at 24 ppg, 7.5-8 rpg, 4 apg and he's never been a big steals or bpg type player. Those are good numbers but his impact won't be what his numbers make him appear to be. (He's not the type of player that can single handidly take over games)


I wouldn't say I like Oden A LOT more, both should be All-Star caliber players. I do think that Oden will have a greater impact on his team's win-loss total. Durant will be more flashy and score more, but that often doesn't translate to wins.

I REALLY don't see Lewis scoring 25 a game, guys don't suddenly make the leap 9 years into their NBA career, especially since the main way guys improve as they develop is their shooting and shot selection, which is already very good in his case. Even in his opportunities this year when Allen was out, he didn't score 25 points per game in any month this season, his best. That'd be quite a boost. I could see a boost in his percentages playing with a true post player, but a 3-plus (since he's only done 22 once) boost to his scoring average is A LOT.

As for Durant, him I can see scoring that much, he has an incredibly diverse offensive game and elite athleticism. I don't see it happening his rookie year though, he'll need to work on his shot selection a bit and get used to better competition. 20 or more is probable though with Allen and Lewis being shipped out of town. West, Sczcerbiak, Ridnour, et al won't hold him back a whole lot in that department.

I really don't see how he wouldn't "take over" any games putting up those kind of numbers, it's not really statistically possible for that to be the case. Putting up those kind of numbers involves having at least a few great games. Even last year he had six 30-point games, that would qualify in my book. Besides, it's not like Lewis does it with consistency either, if him or Allen did the team would have more success.
eddog2
QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 6 2007, 11:28 PM) *
I wouldn't say I like Oden A LOT more, both should be All-Star caliber players. I do think that Oden will have a greater impact on his team's win-loss total. Durant will be more flashy and score more, but that often doesn't translate to wins.

I REALLY don't see Lewis scoring 25 a game, guys don't suddenly make the leap 9 years into their NBA career, especially since the main way guys improve as they develop is their shooting and shot selection, which is already very good in his case. Even in his opportunities this year when Allen was out, he didn't score 25 points per game in any month this season, his best. That'd be quite a boost. I could see a boost in his percentages playing with a true post player, but a 3-plus (since he's only done 22 once) boost to his scoring average is A LOT.

As for Durant, him I can see scoring that much, he has an incredibly diverse offensive game and elite athleticism. I don't see it happening his rookie year though, he'll need to work on his shot selection a bit and get used to better competition. 20 or more is probable though with Allen and Lewis being shipped out of town. West, Sczcerbiak, Ridnour, et al won't hold him back a whole lot in that department.

I really don't see how he wouldn't "take over" any games putting up those kind of numbers, it's not really statistically possible for that to be the case. Putting up those kind of numbers involves having at least a few great games. Even last year he had six 30-point games, that would qualify in my book. Besides, it's not like Lewis does it with consistency either, if him or Allen did the team would have more success.



Lewis raised his scoring average 2.3 ppg last year and would only have to raise his scoring another 2.6 ppg to get to 25 ppg. That's one more 3 or one basket and a free throw a game. I think he'll have no problem doing that especially since he'll finally have a true low post threat to play with.

I really like Lewis and I really like Howard. I'm going to love watching the Magic as a true basketball fan. When Lewis averages 25 ppg, I will remember to post something for you. Until then have fun watching the Magic be better than you thought they would be.

Next Year's Standing

1. Chicago
2. Toronto
3. Orlando
4. Detroit
5. Cleveland
6. Miami
7. Washington
8. Atlanta or Milwaukee (depending on who has the least injuries)

(Charlotte, Indiana, & your boys NJ miss the playoffs). The East has 3 new powerhouse teams in Toronto, Chicago, & Orlando. Sorry New York even Randolph won't turn you team around.
ZoomSlowik
QUOTE (eddog2 @ Jul 6 2007, 11:32 PM) *
Lewis raised his scoring average 2.3 ppg last year and would only have to raise his scoring another 2.6 ppg to get to 25 ppg. That's one more 3 or one basket and a free throw a game. I think he'll have no problem doing that especially since he'll finally have a true low post threat to play with.

I really like Lewis and I really like Howard. I'm going to love watching the Magic as a true basketball fan. When Lewis averages 25 ppg, I will remember to post something for you. Until then have fun watching the Magic be better than you thought they would be.

Next Year's Standing

1. Chicago
2. Toronto
3. Orlando
4. Detroit
5. Cleveland
6. Miami
7. Washington
8. Atlanta or Milwaukee (depending on who has the least injuries)

(Charlotte, Indiana, & your boys NJ miss the playoffs). The East has 3 new powerhouse teams in Toronto, Chicago, & Orlando. Sorry New York even Randolph won't turn you team around.


2.3 is a hell of an increase, and he's only done that three times since he became a starter. The first two you can attribute to him improving early in his career, the second I would say mostly to Allen getting hurt and a smaller sample size. That doesn't exactly happen often. Having a post player will likely help his percentages, but I don't expect much on the scoring front. He's only gone significantly over 20 a game once, which was last year, and that was on a team that plays at a faster pace than Orlando.

I really think you underestimate New Jersey, they got the #6 seed last year with Jefferson missing a lot of time and without Kristic most of the year, AND they beat Toronto in 6 in the playoffs. Plus Sean Williams could turn out to be a major steal, assuming he isn't still smoking pot.

My bad, I forgot about the division-champs thing with the seeding. Yeah, they can win that division. It's basically between them and Washington, and the latter has no size. Still, I'll take 3 all-star caliber players to 2. Ariza is the wildcard in that one. Still, I don't really see how Orlando is a powerhouse by adding Lewis. They're an 8 seed that got swept in the first round, and even though they added Lewis they're probably going to lose 3 of their top 6 scorers from last year. They're still only going have 3 good players that are likely to be back. Either those guys better be REALLY good, or Ariza or someone else better step up. Honestly, I like Boston better, they have 3 pretty solid players and more depth (though I can see poor chemistry or Ainge/Rivers tanking that team more easily).

Tell you what, how about a sig bet? If Lewis averages 25 next year, your buddy Steve makes me a sig that says something like "I wish Tyrus/Durant/Lewis was my lover", or whatever you two decide. If he doesn't, you gotta have a sig that says something like "Hinrich is my man-crush", to be displayed throughout the course of the off-season...
Rowand44
QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 6 2007, 11:28 PM) *
I wouldn't say I like Oden A LOT more, both should be All-Star caliber players. I do think that Oden will have a greater impact on his team's win-loss total. Durant will be more flashy and score more, but that often doesn't translate to wins.

Well if you wont say it, then I will: I like Oden A LOT more than Durant. He'll have much more of an impact on his team than KD.
SoxFan1
QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 7 2007, 01:28 AM) *
Tell you what, how about a sig bet? If Lewis averages 25 next year, your buddy Steve makes me a sig that says something like "I wish Tyrus/Durant/Lewis was my lover", or whatever you two decide. If he doesn't, you gotta have a sig that says something like "Hinrich is my man-crush", to be displayed throughout the course of the off-season...

Dooooooooo it!!!!
ZoomSlowik
Wow, I didn't realize that they signed him for 6-113. That's WAY too much money, especially considering that reportedly no one else wanted to go over 5-60. His contract is going to average over $18 mil a year, and will increase to $22.7 mil in the last year of his deal. All that for a guy that really wasn't the best player on his old team OR his new team.

They better hope this core can win, because with that monster of a deal they'll basically have no cap space for 5 years, and will likely drift into luxury tax territory.
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