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BG7
Memphis is obviously after Nocioni because he would be a logical fit to the open-court style offense Iavaroni is rumored to instill. He is good enough to start on the Grizzlies team.

Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah are also hands-down perfect for that type of uptempo open-court offense. Would a sign-and-trade with Nocioni, plus Joakim Noah and Tyrus Thomas be a fair trade for the Bulls to get Pau Gasol? If not, how about if we throw in next year's #23 pick?

Is that a good trade? And would Memphis accept? Noah would fit into Gasol's old spot, and Nocioni/Tyrus would play PF. Seems perfectly legitimate to me.

Salaries match as well:

Gasol = $12,364,000

Nocioni (in a sign-and-trade) = $7,000,000
Tyrus Thomas = $3,260,760
Joakim Noah = $???
Chicago Bulls Franchise
Once I saw Tyrus in there I thought, NO WAY! John Paxson will NOT trade away Tyrus Thomas. He's said in regards to the Kobe rumors that Tyrus and Deng are the most unlikely to get traded, hinting that there "untouchable".

He and Deng are the LAST people that would get traded on this team. Deng is the franchise player so unless it would involve a young superstar like Lebron James, Dwyane Wade, or Amare Staudemire he's going to remain a Chicago Bull. Tyrus is Pax's project that he's invested in. He believes that Tyrus will a force in the upcoming years. I'd rather do the rumored trade scenerio, Duhon Noc and Noah for Gasol, not Tyrus.
madisonsmadhouse
They can't. Who would go to games in Memphis after this trade?
dasox24
I would just like to say that Memphians are sick of Pau "I don't play defense" Gasol. They do love his scoring, but considering they went 0-12 in the playoffs in the 3 years prior to last, they're ready to move him b/c he's not the kind of guy that can take over a game. However, he would fit in perfectly with us b/c under this aforementioned trade, we'd still have Hinrich, BG, and Deng to do a bunch of scoring. Now, if the Grizzlies could get back two young, quality guys that could start at PF and C (TT and Noah) for them, as well as Nocioni, who is a great 6th man (or starter at the SF spot, with Gay coming off the bench), then I could see them making this trade. Some fans may not like it, but I do think a lot of people around Memphis would like a fresh start and having 3 top 10 picks on their team from the last 2 years to build around.
rangercal
memphis would accept this, if we did, we would be nuts.

only one of Tyrus or Noah should be dealt in any deal. Pax would be crazy to trade both of them.
hinrich fan
Replace Tyrus with Duhon and that would be a deal to bring Gasol to Chi-Town!
ZoomSlowik
Not a chance they take this, they get one starting caliber player at a position where they already have Rudy Gay and Hakim Warrick and two projects. Come on people, just last year they were asking for Deng AND Gordon.

QUOTE (hinrich fan @ Jul 5 2007, 12:01 PM) *
Replace Tyrus with Duhon and that would be a deal to bring Gasol to Chi-Town!


Are you serious? Come on now...
RME JICO
TT is not going anywhere.

Memphis will at least want Noc, Noah, Duhon, and probably a future 1st rounder to even come close to sniffing Gasol.
GreatScott82
I think the reported rumor of Noah, Nocioni and Duhon for Gasol makes sense for the Bulls. And this could be why Pax drafted Noah to begin with. Lets face it, we already have a Noah type player in Ben Wallace and the reason why they drafted Jameson Curry was to potentially replace Duhon off the bench. As far as Nocioni goes, his minutes would continue to decrease anyway with the Bulls because of Deng's surgance and Tyrus Thomas' playing time will continue to increase as he is Pax #1 development project.

Out of all the rumors and talk about KG, Kobe, Amare, etc... This one makes the most sense for the Bulls and I can honestly see it happening very soon as Memphis continues to get younger and change their style of basketball.

Pau Gasol C (Gray, free agent)
Ben Wallace PF ( T. Thomas, P.J. Brown)
Luol Deng SF (T. Thomas, Kryhapa, Griffin)
Ben Gordon SG (Sefolosha, Griffin, Curry)
Kirk Hinrich PG (Curry, free agent)

We lose the depth but the starting 5 gets much stronger! Plus i think Pax will also bring a frew minor veteran free agent transactions as well.
ZoomSlowik
On another note, why would they even take Duhon? They already have two young first round picks at the position with Conley and Lowry, as well as a decent veteran with Chucky Atkins. PG is likely the least of their concerns right now.
SoxFan1
Why would everyone be so opposed to trading both Noah and Tyrus? Let me see, if I had to choose between Tyrus/Noah or Gasol and a guy like Ely or Williamson, I'd definitely take the latter...and the championship(s).
RME JICO
QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 5 2007, 01:47 PM) *
Why would everyone be so opposed to trading both Noah and Tyrus? Let me see, if I had to choose between Tyrus/Noah or Gasol and a guy like Ely or Williamson, I'd definitely take the latter...and the championship(s).
Mainly because of the value of those two guys. Essentially you would be giving up two Top 10 draft picks + other players for Gasol.
ZoomSlowik
QUOTE (RME JICO @ Jul 5 2007, 04:06 PM) *
Mainly because of the value of those two guys. Essentially you would be giving up two Top 10 draft picks + other players for Gasol.


Sweetney was a top-10 pick too, does that mean we have to keep him? blink.gif

Come on people, we're talking about acquiring an All-Star PF that's young and in his prime. We're not going to be able to get him for a collection of cast-offs, it'll cost us at least two valuable pieces.
rangercal
QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 5 2007, 07:47 PM) *
Why would everyone be so opposed to trading both Noah and Tyrus? Let me see, if I had to choose between Tyrus/Noah or Gasol and a guy like Ely or Williamson, I'd definitely take the latter...and the championship(s).

thank god you're not the GM
dasox24
QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 5 2007, 02:47 PM) *
Why would everyone be so opposed to trading both Noah and Tyrus? Let me see, if I had to choose between Tyrus/Noah or Gasol and a guy like Ely or Williamson, I'd definitely take the latter...and the championship(s).

So would I. I mean, it would suck in a few years when Wallace is done and we're left with no defensive post presence down low, but we should be able to find someone at least serviceable when the time comes. Theoretically, we could have Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, and Gasol for the next 10 years, though that would eat up a ton of cap room, meaning Gordon would likely exit via trade. I guess I should add that I'd rather see Gordon than TT traded in a Gasol deal, simply b/c Gasol could replace Gordon's scoring, we wouldn't have to worry about signing BG long-term, and we could keep a young big man to take over for Wallace in a year or two.
eddog2
Let's drop the Gasol talk until there is more evidence of it happening.

Paxson recently denied that he's had any discussion about a Gasol trade recently. He already denied the same thing about any KG trade.

The Bulls offered Nocioni a 5 year $38 million dollar contract (starting at around $6.3 million for the first year) and are praying that Memphis doesn't offer the 5 year $46 million. It's as simple as that. Once he's signed then maybe we can think trade.



http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...bulls-headlines
SoxFan1
QUOTE (rangercal @ Jul 5 2007, 07:26 PM) *
thank god you're not the GM

Obviously you like dunks and athletic, no offense players instead of championships. I imagine you think Dominique Wilkins is a better player than Michael Jordan as well.
eddog2
QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 5 2007, 10:01 PM) *
Obviously you like dunks and athletic, no offense players instead of championships. I imagine you think Dominique Wilkins is a better player than Michael Jordan as well.


That argument makes no sense. Maybe Harold Miner but you can't say Nique. Dominique was all offense all the time. That was the problem. Anyway, he was slightly more athletic than Jordan but Jordan was the better competitor and player. As for no offense players you can put Dominque in that category. I know you meant the championship part of it but don't discount Nique b/c he never one a title. He never had half the supporting cast that Jordan did.
ChWRoCk2
QUOTE (Chicago Bulls Franchise @ Jul 5 2007, 01:18 AM) *
Once I saw Tyrus in there I thought, NO WAY! John Paxson will NOT trade away Tyrus Thomas. He's said in regards to the Kobe rumors that Tyrus and Deng are the most unlikely to get traded, hinting that there "untouchable".

He and Deng are the LAST people that would get traded on this team. Deng is the franchise player so unless it would involve a young superstar like Lebron James, Dwyane Wade, or Amare Staudemire he's going to remain a Chicago Bull. Tyrus is Pax's project that he's invested in. He believes that Tyrus will a force in the upcoming years. I'd rather do the rumored trade scenerio, Duhon Noc and Noah for Gasol, not Tyrus.

You overrate Tyrus way too much.

Duhon, Noch and Noah for Gasol is a joke, no way they accept that.
Steve9347
QUOTE (eddog2 @ Jul 5 2007, 10:25 PM) *
That argument makes no sense. Maybe Harold Miner but you can't say Nique. Dominique was all offense all the time. That was the problem. Anyway, he was slightly more athletic than Jordan but Jordan was the better competitor and player. As for no offense players you can put Dominque in that category. I know you meant the championship part of it but don't discount Nique b/c he never one a title. He never had half the supporting cast that Jordan did.

Sorry, Slav, but Edwin's got ya here... stick to players that played during the course of your lifetime when talking smack! 17 year olds need not talk about Dominique Wilkins' game...

spiff, neither do I... but at least I saw him playin!
SoxFan1
QUOTE (steve9347 @ Jul 5 2007, 11:43 PM) *
Sorry, Slav, but Edwin's got ya here... stick to players that played during the course of your lifetime when talking smack! 17 year olds need not talk about Dominique Wilkins' game...

spiff, neither do I... but at least I saw him playin!

It was a comparison off the top of my head. And I did see Wilkins play towards the end of his career. Not in his prime though, that I remember at least. Take "no-offense" out and it's a very fair comparison.

But worded that way, he's right, not a great comparison. Harold Miner is a much better comparison, agreed. Either way, I was basing the it off of the championships and reliance of athleticism towards their scoring.

But all that's beside the fact. You trade, essentially, 3 bench players for Pau Gasol. I don't know how many GM's wouldn't deal Noah/Tyrus/Noc for Pau Gasol, but I'm going out on a limb and saying not many. But then again, the armchair GM's here would definitely keep the ever athletic youngsters.
madisonsmadhouse
QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 5 2007, 02:47 PM) *
Why would everyone be so opposed to trading both Noah and Tyrus? Let me see, if I had to choose between Tyrus/Noah or Gasol and a guy like Ely or Williamson, I'd definitely take the latter...and the championship(s).


You really underestimate the ceilings of both Noah and Thomas. You don't get to be a top 10 pick in the NBA for no reason. There is something there for both of these guys. As raw as they are, it might not happen overnight, but it didn't for Chandler and Curry either.
ZoomSlowik
QUOTE (madisonsmadhouse @ Jul 6 2007, 06:17 AM) *
You really underestimate the ceilings of both Noah and Thomas. You don't get to be a top 10 pick in the NBA for no reason. There is something there for both of these guys. As raw as they are, it might not happen overnight, but it didn't for Chandler and Curry either.


I don't think he's doing that as much as he knows how HUGE an impact Gasol can have on this roster. Instead of waiting 3 years and hoping Tyrus and Noah turn out well you can add an elite big man that's still pretty young. It's choosing the known over the unknown. MAYBE in 2 or 3 years Tyrus is the next Josh Smith/Shawn Marion and Noah is the next Tyson, but you just don't know what you're going to get from them.

You have a team that's already pretty good, and you could potentially trade 3 non-essential players for a good, young big man that could very well put you over the top. You gotta do that in a heartbeat if Memphis is dumb enough to take that package. The only way that deal REALLY blows up in your face is if BOTH Thomas and Noah turn into stars and you get one $14 mil star instead of 2 or 3 cheap years from those guys before the extension. That's pretty unlikely though, especially since it looks like Tyrus still has a long way to go and Noah has looked pretty limited at times in college. Even if one of them blows up it's not all that bad because you still have your All-Star big man, I really think you can live with that risk when you're getting a player of Gasol's caliber.
eddog2
QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 6 2007, 11:50 AM) *
I don't think he's doing that as much as he knows how HUGE an impact Gasol can have on this roster. Instead of waiting 3 years and hoping Tyrus and Noah turn out well you can add an elite big man that's still pretty young. It's choosing the known over the unknown. MAYBE in 2 or 3 years Tyrus is the next Josh Smith/Shawn Marion and Noah is the next Tyson, but you just don't know what you're going to get from them.

You have a team that's already pretty good, and you could potentially trade 3 non-essential players for a good, young big man that could very well put you over the top. You gotta do that in a heartbeat if Memphis is dumb enough to take that package. The only way that deal REALLY blows up in your face is if BOTH Thomas and Noah turn into stars and you get one $14 mil star instead of 2 or 3 cheap years from those guys before the extension. That's pretty unlikely though, especially since it looks like Tyrus still has a long way to go and Noah has looked pretty limited at times in college. Even if one of them blows up it's not all that bad because you still have your All-Star big man, I really think you can live with that risk when you're getting a player of Gasol's caliber.


Zoom, I know where your coming from, I really do. However, if it is Tyrus, Nocioni and Noah I'd be real hesitant before pulling that trade.

I'd have no problem doing it if Paxson and the Bull guaranteed that they'd pay Gordon & Deng enough to keep both in town. However, my concern is that once we get Gasol we'd lose one of those players b/c i'm not sure the Bulls want to significantly go over the cap.

If we get Gasol, we have to keep Gordon. That's a must. You need that player to stretch defenses and allow Gasol to work down low. Plus, Gordon is going to be so much better if we get Gasol.

If it's a sure thing that we re-sign both Deng and Gordon, I think we'd be stupid not to do it, win 2 or 3 championships and then figure out what to do once Wallace leaves. The long term success of the team might be put in jeopardy but the short term (next 2-3 years) would look great.

I'd be sad, very sad, to see Tyrus go, but you are right. We have no idea whether or not he will develop into Marion/Amare/Smith or anyone else. He's got a good chance to develop into a Smith type player but offensively he's got a long way to go to be Amare or Marion.
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