I posted this in another thread but I think it deserves special attention. Its not tottaly impossible, but maybe we could ship Ben Gordon to Celtics for Paul Pierce. Then, we can trade our 2 picks this year + Sweets for Kevin Garnett.

Then our Lineup would look like this:

Tyson Chandler
Kevin Garnett
Luol Deng
Paul Pierce
Kirk Hinrich

I think this lineup would at least get us to the Conference Finals, what do you guys think?

2 picks+Sweets for KG doesn't work

Well, salaries gotta match up in both deals, and Tim Thomas is gone, but I like the way you think.

Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce combined with Chandler/Hinrich/Deng/Nocioni/Duhon and a competent perimiter defender would undoubtedly turn us into a championship contender.

Um, the Bulls would have to give up a lot more. To make it work, it'd probably have to be something like Deng, Chandler, a pick or two, and some more people just for salary filler.

The Bulls would have to include equal matching salaries in one of those deals (due to the salary cap). Gordon couldn't be the lone part to getting Pierce, Boston would want more. And in terms of KG, its a definate possibility, but along with draft picks and Sweet's you'd have to give up Tyson (for contractual purposes) and at the very least Noc or Duhon.

Exactly, while we may not be able to get those players, there are going to be at least a few 2 guards out there. I think Pierce is the best bet, but even signing a guy like Peja while drafting Aldridge or potentially dealing picks and a little talent for KG, would be equally as valuable. However, its still unrealistic.

I think the most realistic scenario would have the Bulls trading for a big or SF or signing one, while adding the other position view the draft (and at the same time signing a guy to the MLE).

Realistically speaking it's doubtful the Bulls have the resources to acquire one of KG/Pierce, much less both. The Bulls lack a significant trade chip (maybe Luol Deng, maybe) and the draft is weak on all-star caliber potential. About the best you can hope for is Bosh demands a trade and Toronto is willing to take draft picks + fillers.

Welcome aboard. Bosh would be an interesting fit. He's one of the better young PF's in the game and he's pretty much led Rapotrs ownership know he'll be gone (pretty much anyone leaves there anyway). I know the Lakers are positioning themselves to get Bosh. They want him badly (however they are more likely going to wait till he's a FA cause the Lakers will have caproom in a year).

Coangelo is the GM in Toronto, now. The only way he will give up bosh is if he fleeces the team he trades with, and Paxson is to smart for that.

I would settle for:

Chandler
Aldridge
Deng
Pierce
Hinrich

Trade the Bulls pick and Gordon + a salary filler for Pierce. Keep the Knicks pick and draft Aldridge. KG and Pierce would be very expensive.

Draft Collins/Aldridge. Sign Harrington.

Chandler
Harrington
Deng
Gordon
Hinrich

Collins
Duhon
Aldridge
Noc
Songaila
Sweetney
FA

If the Bulls are under the cap this summer due to Thomas's expiring deal, isn't it possible for the Bulls to take on extra salary in a trade & make a deal without equal contracts?

Unless one of the two deals puts them over the cap before the second deal is completed. For example, Garnetts salary would put the Bulls over the cap, and then they would have to be within the cap constraints to do another deal.

So in other words we could take Garnett with ease, right? I'll take that one.

If you think Boston will accpet "Bulls pick and Gordon + a salary filler for Pierce", you're mistaken. The last conversation i had with a Celtic fan he proposed: Hinrich, Deng + the two bulls drak picks for Pierce and Al Jefferson, then a few days later he changed his mind and said it's still no enough. The Celtics and their fans view Pierce as a top-5 player and would have to be blown away by an offer to trade him.

Yep.

They definitely have enough pieces to get one of the two, but it's doubtful they could get both. Hinrich and Deng are both highly desireable players that aren't making a lot of money, and Gordon has some value. Plus we have an abundance of draft picks at the moment. We'd have to throw in some other pieces probably to even up the salaries a bit more, but it can probably be done.

That's the fans though, not their GM or our GM. That's pretty much equal to us thinking that we could get Pierce for Gordon, our pick, and some filler. Neither is really close to the truth. Something like Deng/Gordon, Duhon, and either the Knicks' pick or ours and our future first rounder might be closer.

Decent piece on Pierce here

And i think the "Http://" button isn't working right.

I would agree with there fans theory that Paul Pierce is one of the 5 best guards in the NBA and definately one of the 10 best players in the NBA. I think we, as Bulls fans, underestimate what it would cost to get him. At the same time, Celtic fans are over-estimating it.

As far as KG goes, if he does force a trade (kind of like Shaq did) it could make a team like Chicago (or whever he says he'll go) have a little more leverage allowing them to potentially acquire KG without giving up quite as much.

Still I think the most likely scenario may be the Bulls drafting Aldridge, using our other pick on a guard and than spending a bit on Gooden (who I think is the best low post player available). From there you ensure your team has cap space for the following off-season where you make an all out effort to get one of the star players.

Won't a lot of the Bulls' cap room disappear in 07 when they have to sign Hinrich?

Don't know how it quite works, but my guess is that Hinrich would be restricted or something. The Bulls would first sign the other player (telling Hinrich that) and than would sign Hinrich under the Larry Bird rules?

Maybe you can't do that though.

Well, a fans opinion can give you the perceived value of a player. If their fans view Pierce as a top five player the GM probably has a pretty high opinion of him too. To trade for an establised star such as Pierce the Bulls would need to pay up big. I'd say Hinrich, Deng and the Knicks pick for Pierce straight up. If anyone thinks they can get Pierce for less than that they're overvaluing the Bulls players.

If thats the case there is no way I'd make that trade. We'd be giving up one of the better PG's in the league (yes Hinrich is that), a rising starting SF, and a top 4 draft pick. Plus the Celtics are getting no contracts back, meaning they get 3 starters and lose like 10 million in payroll.

I could see them doing Deng/Filler/Knicks pick, but anything more would be no deal and I'd hate to see Deng go.

Considering that subtracting either Hinrich or Deng (along with the Knicks' pick) in order to get Pierce would probably leave us in a position where we still wouldn't be good enough to compete with the Pistons, Heat, and Pacers next year unless somehow we got Pierce and signed Big Ben (salary cap a bit of a problem there), I think that would be just a terrible idea.

The only way I can see us getting someone in a trade who will put us over the top next year is if we could get Garnett without giving up 2 of Chandler, Hinrich, and Deng. In other words, via Minnesota just dumping him.

Seriously, if we're going to get back on top, we need to have some patience. Pax took a horrific situation last summer which looked almost certain to leave us getting nothing for Eddy Curry and found a way to turn it into 2 top 5 draft picks and some role players without sacrificing our salary cap space. The sacrifice he had to make to do that was taking a step backwards this year, since we wouldn't have a low post scoring presence.

Next year, we're still going to be a young team. The year after that, we're still going to be a young team. The year after that, we're still going to be a young team. Even if we get Garnett. This team needs time to grow, and even getting Pierce, given what it would cost us, is not going to be enough to put us over the top. Our best bet is to just run with the draft picks and cap space and try to make a deal without losing key players or just use the picks ourselves, keep our team young, and try to let them grow together into champs.

I agree, internal growth, draft picks, and using our cap space wisley(interior scores) is our best bet. Now we just need the patience to wait it out and hope it works out.

It'll be easier to be patient since this team has enough (via picks) and a small signing to make the playoffs next year. Than we get the Knicks pick again (albeit we swap our pick with there's) and have that to continue to build talent and at that point I think we may look to add that one player to put us over the top.

I see consistent playoff appearances for this team and a slow upward trend until we finally get the team thats capable of winning a title. Its a lot easier to be patient when your club is making improvements year in and year out (and making the playoffs). This Bulls team will do that (aside from the step back this year, but the loss of Curry caused that).

I seriously doubt it would take that much. The Heat only gave up Lamar Odom, Brian Grant, and Caron Butler for Shaq. The Rockets gave up Steve Francis, Cutino Mobley, and Kelvin Cato for T-Mac. You could argue that both of those guys are more valuable than Pierce.

Granted our guys aren't quite as highly thought of as Lamar Odom and Steve Francis, but we still shouldn't have to give up both Hinrich and Deng.

You have to factor in that our guys don't make the salary that those guys made too. Which means someone like Deng or Gordon is more valuable (maybe not as valuable as Odom, but when you factor in the salary difference its close).

At the time Lamar Odom had a lot more value than any of our players (same goes for Francis) and both Shaq and T-mac demanded trades weaking their trade value.

Giving up Odom and Butler (+many draft picks) is the equivalent of the Bulls giving up Hinrich, Deng + lotto pick.

Like i said, you guys are overvaluing our players, your not going to get a player at the level of Paul Pierce without giving up a player of equal talent or several individuals of high potential. Deng and Hinrich at this point are solid players with high potential. If you don't give up an elite player you have to overpay big time with potential, and right now that's where most of the Bulls trade value lies.

Odom at the time might have actually been worth less than Hinrich. He was coming off a really good year, but he had been a headcase and underacheived before that. Butler was solid, but at the time wasn't as highly thought of as Deng is now. In fact, he was coming off a bad year in which he shot 38%. Grant was just filler. Both deals were basically one near-allstar player, one passable youngster, and some filler. We'd be giving up a young, cheap, productive player in Deng or Gordon, which is pretty valuable, a decent PG in Duhon, and a very high pick.

I don't remember either of those teams getting any picks, but even if they did they weren't as high as ours will be. Someone like Aldridge or Gay makes that pick much more valuable. Granted that package won't get us some of the top players, but it should be enough to get a somewhat aging disgruntled star making a lot of money like Garnett or Pierce.

A lot more? Extremely debatable, and many would disagree.

That season Odom put up:

17.1 PPG, 9.7 RPG, 4.1 APG, 1.06 SPG, .89 BPG, 18.5 PER, .430 FG%, .516 TS%

Find me a player on the Bulls that can put up anything close to that.

As for Caron Butler, even thought he was coming off a poor season his potential was viewed just as highly as Deng and Butler's rookie season was probably more productive than either of Deng's two years.

And once again both of those players demanded trades, so Miami took the best deal on the table. So far Pierce has not demanded a trade and there have been no credible rumours saying the Celtics are looking to trade him. The Celtics are dealing from a position of strength, not desperation.

Boston is (apparently) really high on Adam Morrison. Maybe its the moustache, I'm not sure. But anyway to get him, they'd be willing to move Pierce.

If the Knicks continue to fluff it, and the Bulls are in a position to draft Morrison ...

Maybe Morrison, Gordon, cash and OUR '07 pick for pierce will work.

Boston would seemingly get what they want.

We can then get a Big and a backup SG/PG with our pick and FA.

Kirk - Pargo
Pierce - Draft/FA
Deng - Noc
FA/Pick - Songaila, Sweetney, Allen
Chandler - Harrington, Allen.

The thought of Pierce with a quality PG like Kirk is a pretty nice one!

Since our pick(knicks pick really) next season has 1st pick potential you'd have to be crazy to trade it. You can't give up a potential Greg Oden pick.

OMG, if we got both Oden and Aldridge thanks to the Knicks...I'd personally give talkbulls.com to Thomas

Yeah, no kidding. Thomas would probably end up killing himself.

Or he could come by and take 2% ownership of the team, as long as he promised to stay away from all player personel moves.

I'll put it this way, nothing I've seen from any of the experts have given any indication that it would take Hinrich AND Deng to get either Pierce or Garnett, and frankly I would agree with them. If you can't get two solid starters for Shaq or T-Mac, regardless of whether they demanded a trade or not, then you're probably not going to get it for either of those two. Pierce and Garnett are good, but they're also making a ton of money, and their teams seem to be moving toward rebuilding efforts. The Bulls have numerous assets for that effort and are probably the best option. If you can get a promising young SF, a decent PG that could start in a pinch, two high picks, and a ton of cap relief, that's a pretty good deal if you want to start over.

Obviously teams don't plan on giving away stars, but neither of those teams seem to be going anywhere and could use some help. There aren't that many teams with enough cap space to make a deal, and even fewer of them have solid trading chips like the Bulls. Those teams don't exactly have that many choices for teams to deal with, which is similar to what happened in the two deals I mentioned.

The three major assets you need when trading a major player are young affordable talent, draft picks, and cap space. No other team can match the Bulls' ability to provide those assets, which is why they've been mentioned in so many rumors.

LMAO. Isiah Thomas's first moves would probably be to put Jas in charge of Technology and put me in charge of limiting postings... And then giving us max contracts