Paxson is set to open contract extension talks with both Deng and Gordon sometime this week. Does anyone want to predict what will be the outcome of those talks? Who will/won't get the extension. How much each player will sign for?

I'm guessing right now that Deng's extension will be far less of a hassle than Gordon's. Gordon recently hired a new agent which tells me he's looking out for #1.

I'm predicting Deng signs in the first 2 weeks of his contract talks and gets a 5 year $60-62 million deal (which averages $12-$12.4 million per) However, that deal will probably start off with him making $10-10.4 million his first year, $11-11.4 his 2nd year, $12-12.4 his 3rd year, $13 his 4th year, and $14-$14.4 his final year. Then he'll still only be around 28 years old and still would be able to sign another big time deal assuming he continues to improve during those 5 years.

As for Gordon, I'm kind of worried that he might go into next season without signing an extension. If that happens, the Bulls might really consider trading him at the trading deadline. I'm thinking a team with a lot of cap room would probably make him a stupid offer if he went into free agency and that would put the Bulls in a bad position. I'm hoping that he gets re-signed. If he does I'm thinking his contract will look something like this:

5 years $52.5 million. The contract would start off with $9.5 million and then excalate as to, $10, $10.5, $11, & $11.5. I think that's how much Ben will be looking for. However, Paxson might only be willing to give him something in the neighborhood of 5 years $47 million ($9.4 million per year).

We'll see what happens.

deng 5 years, 60 mill

gordon 5 years, 55-60 mill


i love it

edd we actually agree on something

I dont think gordon's extension will get done. Paxson has said many times in dealing with both these and kirk's extensions that he isnt offering these guys the maximum amount they are worth.

They have to accept a little less for long term security.

With that in mind, we know pax is not totally sold on gordon as the long term starter, so his offer could be quite a bit less than deng's. I think gordon will want a little more than Krich, and they will be offering him slightly less.


I think they will work deng's out for something a little higher than you guys said. 5 years 65 million. Deng is the only player on the team that, if he asked for the max, i'd give it to him.

i think deng gets 5 years 65 mill
i think gordon will get a deal done and get 5 years 55-60 mill

I think a deal will get done with both guys. I think most of you are on track here with Gordon's deal averaging ~10 mil/yr, while Deng's will average ~13 mil/yr.

Luol Deng can basically write a blank check because he is the future and the number 1 player in this franchise right now. I wouldn't be suprised if he gets a max deal but for Gordon, I expect a lesser deal definitely not a max deal.

Gordon maybe gets 4 years option for 5th for 50-55 mil.

I expect Gordon to get somewhere in between Hinrichs contract and a max deal and Deng I expect to get slightly lower than the Max.

Gordon's deal will be probably similar to Hinrich's deal when all is said and done. Deng might just be pushing a max deal if Pax is serious about signing him.

I've got a bad feeling that Gordon is going to try to cash in big time. He could easily look at his scoring average, and the fact that he's the #1 option on a contender, and the contract that Rashard Lewis just got and say "damn, why can't I get a max deal?" Obviously that's nuts, but he's made some grumblings in the past about his role, and any time you hire a new agent that's rarely a good sign.

Maybe I'm full of it, that's just what my gut is telling me. I don't see them working out an extension this off-season.

I agree. Gordon will be a problem.

If it comes down to it, we always have the option with Little Ben of simply matching whatever some other team offers him next offseason.

I don't see how he won't get the max if he hits the market. Not saying he deserves it, just saying lots of teams are not as conservative as the bulls when it comes to overpaying.

As one of our own players...it doesn't hurt us if teams offer him a high contract. Because either we can pull a sign and trade and pick up something else useful or because the only thing it costs us is the luxury tax, and I really don't care whether or not JR has to pay a few extra bucks if that's what the team needs.

Gordon will face a similar problem as Chauncey Billups and Anderson Varejao did this year and Tyson did before and any other restricted free agent where his team claims they will match any offer.

Because like all those other guys, next year Pax will keep saying he will match any offer for Gordon. That will scare teams away from wasting an offer on him bc Paxson could take 10 days and then decide to match, making that team miss out on other free agents. Gordon also will probably not be the first choice on a lot of team's lists bc he is undersized. Next year is a loaded FA class so the only teams looking at him as a first choice have to have a big PG or be looking for him to come off the bench, and therefore not offer him more than pax would match.

1st of all, the only way a bunch of teams won't be looking at Gordon next year in free agency is if he re-signs with the Bulls this offseason. If Gordon goes into next year as a restricted free agent he's going to get several teams looking at him.

However, not many will probably have the room to sign him. I can think of several teams not including the Knicks b/c they are a given that would love to have a player like Gordon. Many are over the cap. Gordon is a pure scorer and there aren't many of those in the league. Even if you are short, can't play the best D you still can make big money b/c of your ability to put the ball in the basket. Not to mention that lethal outside shot is enough to get average players $6-8 million a year (just ask Kapono).

I think if Gordon is offered a contract around $10-12 per he'll probably sign it. However, if he gets a 5 year $40-45 million dollar offer I think that's when there is going to be some problems with him, his agent, & Paxson.

As for Deng, everyone please stop saying that you could see him getting a "max deal". Deng/Gordon/Tyrus are my favorite players and probably in that order until Tyrus explodes in the next few years. But Deng is no superstar and only superstars deserve max deals.

When did Deng become Lebron? Wade? ect. He's definately not there yet and even an overpaid Rashard Lewis as a example does not mean that any team in the league is going to be throwing max deals to Deng. Max deals are something like 5 year $80 million and even if we had all the cap room in the world (which we don't) there is no way, no way, we are going to pay Deng that much. That averages to $16 million per season. Or it probably starts around $13 and escalates up to $20 for the final year.

Deng could very well get a deal that averages around $13 million but he's not getting $16 per. 5*$13 = $65 million. That's $15 million that can be spend on someone else like Tyrus or Thabo in a few years.

Max Deal. You all have to be kidding right?

Great post. I agree with basically everything you said.

On a side note, anyone have a list of what teams will be far enough under the cap to afford Gordon? It can't be more than 3 or 4. That should give us a good idea of who may go after BG next offseason if he doesn't re-up.

I think he will get close to a max deal. I hope you have been paying attention to what players are getting paid in the NBA today, because it doesn't take a superstar to get that kind of money. Hell an aging Ben Wallace who has never averaged in double figures got $15 million a year. If Deng can keep expanding him game at a rate similar to what he has been, which don't think for a second that teams aren't looking at his progress, as well as his potential, and comparing it to his age. I envision Deng pretty easily as a guy who in a less structured system would be a low to mid 20s PPG to go along with 7 rbs and a handful of assists a night. Throw in the incredible defense he plays, and tell me what you would pay that player. Hell look at his statistics on the biggest stage the NBA has to offer, the playoffs, and tell me what what that player would be getting paid? Rashard Lewis got how much money, and the only category he is really better than Deng is in PPG. He sure as hell doesn't play anywhere near Lu's defense, and Deng's offensive game is still not done developing. As a matter of a fact, Deng's playoff PPG and Lewis's regular season PPG were almost identical.

If Deng said he wanted a max deal, you would be an idiot not to give it to him. In today's marketplace, that is the going price for a young, 2nd flight, small forward.

And remember, the only thing these deals cost us at this point is Luxury tax dollars. We're not going to have cap room for quite some time unless we decide to scrap everything, which would be a terrible idea. And I simply have no sympathy for JR if he starts whining about the team being too expensive after being cheap for 10 years while still selling out the biggest stadium in the NBA and still selling all those #23 jerseys. If the Knicks can afford to have a salary 2x the cap, we can afford to go well over it to make some NBA Finals runs.

Max deals! Giving Deng a max deal is "smart". You all have to be kidding me.

Yeah Lewis made that much money but it was stupid of the Magic to pay him that much. Seattle sure wasn't going to pay him that. Now Orlando is going to have trouble keeping Nelson & you see what happened with Milicic. They just gave out 2 max deals to Lewis and Howard. Howard deserved it b/c he's a beast and is a C/PF. But Lewis didn't deserve anything over $15.

And there is a difference. Lewis was a "unrestricted" agent. Deng isn't. When you are restricted you sign the contract for less then what you could get in a year b/c you potentially could suffer a career ending injury and there goes you $60 million you could have had. Deng is a good young player and is basically everything you like in a player. Unselfish, hardworking, nice both on and off the court. But he's no superstar at least not yet.

Sure there will be teams that would probably throw out numbers close to the max but not many will. If Deng really thinks he deserves the max then he should sign a 3 year deal instead of a 5 and make around $12-13.5 per year. Then when he's 26/27 he can get a max deal. But you just don't go throwing around max deals.

Max deals to players that aren't stars cripple teams. Just ask the Knicks.

Anyway, Lewis at this point is better than Deng anyway but Deng definately has more upside. Lewis gets more PPG, shoots the 3 way better, & I wouldn't call his rebounding shabby (6.6 a game). If he played on the Bulls he could easily average 7+ rebounds. What Deng does is focus on areas that he's good at. He hits that mid range shot like it's going out of style. And I love him for that. But for Deng to be asking for the max he needs to add other parts to his game. He needs to become a better finisher in the open court, he needs to start hitting the 3 at around 40%. It would also be nice if he raised his FT% to 80%. Lewis shoots it at 84%.

Deng also needs to get more physical and draw more fouls. He only goes to the line 4.3 times a game. Lewis only went to the line 5.25 times per game but Deng still needs to get that number up to at least 6. You do that by driving and being more aggressive.

Anyway, if Deng wants the max deal and we have no choice I say forget about it and trade him for KG or Pau. Let Nocioni & Tyrus shore up the SF spot. Why pay a SF the max when we are deepest at SF?

Well, we kind of agree...

Giving max deals to non-franchise players can definitely be a big-time killer. That Lewis one was a good example, Orlando is in salary cap hell/luxury tax territory because they overbid for Lewis, and it's even worse because supposedly no other team was offering more than about 5-60. Normally I'd agree with you, that a contract like that would be incredibly stupid.

However, I do agree with Balta, in our situation it doesn't really matter. Whether we give Deng a monster contract or we trade him for someone else, we're not going to have any cap room regardless, and with the ridiculous revenue stream the Bulls have had for a LOOOONG time, even when they sucked in the post-Jordan years, the luxury tax should really be a non-issue. That seperates the Bulls from a lot of teams. It doesn't matter as much if we give Deng a couple extra mil because it's not the end of the world if we go over the luxury tax (or at least it better not be, I can't see Reisdorf being THAT cheap). The Knicks have had 5 or 6 bad deals on their roster for quite some time, I think we could manage two (Deng and Wallace).

Also, unlike a few of these contracts given to guys that will likely decline towards the end of the deal, Deng is very young and his career is still on the upswing. Barring a serious injury, he's not going to be a totally useless player that is going to kill cap space AND be untradeable (well, at least for anything useful). Deng won't be a Marbury/Francis/Webber type contract albatross that is a total disaster, he'd be more like a Joe Johnson/Paul Pierce/Jermaine O'Neal type, where you still get solid production, just not at a good price. You can still move those kind of players if the need should arise. And unlike the Lewis situation, SOMEONE ELSE will almost certainly offer Deng a max deal if it comes down to it.

Obviously I don't want to OFFER that kind of money to Deng, but if that's what it takes to keep him I won't gripe too much. If we don't get it done somewhat soon it could come down to matching an offer sheet of that magnitude. Our team makeup changes DRASTICALLY without him, we lose a lot of scoring punch and dependability at that spot. Tyrus loses a lot of his assets if he has to play SF, you take his shot-blocking and rebounding farther away from the basket it lessens his mis-match potential if he has to consistently take NBA small-forwards off the dribble. Plus sign-and-trades are annoying to work out, and they'd be hard-pressed to get good value, you don't have a whole lot of leverage in those situations. You could very easily be forced into making a choice between something like Bibby and Hawes (hypothetical, I haven't looked at their cap situation) or letting him go for nothing.

No, his production doesn't warrant an $18 mil type contract at this point, market value often doesn't match with their true value. The bottom line is that for the Bulls it's not going to matter in the long run if he's making $12 mil or $18 mil, they're still going to be over the cap. The only difference will be how much it costs JR. We don't want to be forced into dealing him for 70 cents on the dollar because someone makes a monster offer and Deng "isn't a max-player".

I think you are missing one vital fact in your arguement. Players salaries are based on what other players are making. It doesn't matter if you don't like some players deals, the fact remains that when Deng comes to negotiate, you can make damned sure that he is going to bring Rashard Lewis to the table. He is also going to have a nice little comparison of what other players have done at his stage of an NBA career, and when he brings a guy like Lewis and compares his numbers at this stage of his career, you can bet that someone is going to pay him a really, really big contract for that. John Paxson will also recognize this, and he will not let Deng walk away for a few million dollars a year. You can get into nitpicking if you like, and I could nitpick back, but the point remains that Deng's salary will be based on what other SFs in the NBA are making.

Lebron James $12.45 million ($16.37 in 2010)
Carmelo Anthony $12.45 million ($16.37 in 2010)
Paul Pierce $16.3 million ($21.1 in 2010)
Lewis $15.6 million next year (up to $23.79 his final year)
Joe Johnson SG/SF $13.5 million
Ron Artest $7.8 million (the exception to the rule b/c he's a little crazy)


Josh Howard $9 million ($11.8 in 2010)
Gerald Wallace $7.5 million ($11.4 in 2010)
Teyshaun Prince $8.68 million ($11.8 in 2010)
Richard Hamilton $9.75 million ($11.3 in 2009)
Boris Diaw $9 million each season including 2010
Bruce Bowen (one dimensional) $4.125 million


I really think Deng's contract should be closer to Josh Howard/Gerald Wallace than a Lebron, or Melo. However, Deng should make more than Howard that is why I think he should get around $11-12 million per season. Either 3 year $36 or 5 year $60 but not much more than that. Definately not more than 5 years $65. At $12 million per year that is like $2-3 million more than Josh Howard makes per season. I think that is fair b/c he's not leaps and bounds better than Howard. He is younger and that's why he should make more b/c he has more upside.

Paxson should also be patient and gauge what Andre Iguodala gets paid from the Sixers. However, it might not be a real good comparison b/c Philly basically has no good players and will likely be willing to overpay (and possibly offer the max) to keep Iguodala. 18.2 points, 5.7 rebounds, 5.7 assists and 2.0 steals in a team-high 40.3 minutes over 76 games last season.

Lewis' total dollars are exceeded only by Kobe Bryant's $136 million deal in 2004; Jermaine O'Neal's $126.5 million extension in 2003; Kevin Garnett's $126 million contract in 1997; Chris Webber's $122 million extension in 2001; Tim Duncan's $122 million deal in 2003; and Shaquille O'Neal's $120 million deal in 1996 - all seven-year contracts.)

You can't seriously take that into consideration. Even if Deng's max contract can't be as high as Lewis's b/c he's coming off his rookie contract there is no way you can take Lewis's contract and hold that as the gauge for all small forwards from here on out.