hope this isnt true, and the bulls would NEVER give up luol deng and ben gordon, seems very unlikely the trade will happen.

That is why Pax isn't making any deals for these superstars, everyone wants several of our key players.

Pax is way to smart to trade gordon/deng/tyrus/noah for kobe. Can't depleet your team like that. I say Gordon, Noc, draft picks, maybe one of Tyrus/Noah.

Nothing is going to happen until December 15th when Nocioni is able to be traded. Then we will see a Kobe trade if at all.

Im sorry I dont even want to give up 2 of those 4 players in any trade let alone all 4. Id maybe be fine with Gordon, Noah, and Nocioni but even than not a huge fan.

OH MY GOD.

Why won't the press stop with this? Deng, Gordon, Tyrus, and Noah is a ridiculous amount and no team would ever make that trade. Kobe Bryant is good, possibly the best player in the game, but that is a ridiculous amount and until I hear that Buss isn't demanding Deng then I'm not going to think that anything will get done.

i have an oddly strong feeling this will go down, but def without Lou. We wont part with him and thankfully Kobe's bitching will help us keep him. I just think the idea of a potential next Jordan/Pippen combo is too good. If we can keep Noah or Noc, I'd be happy enough--with Grey playing well and mature immediatley, we are deep enough.

Deng isn't even close to Pippen, but its a good thought. Apparently Phil Jackson is fed up with Kobe not putting his heart and soul into these preseason games and not being prepared. I smell a T.O tirade coming up soon after L.A goes 1-7 to open the season.

Whatever, however, GET A DEAL DONE that makes sense for Kobe. He's the best player on the planet it would be moronic not to make your best effort to bring him to Chicago especially knowing that he wants to come here.

this is why i repeatedly keep saying i will only be happy with this trade is if deng isnt involved. if they want gordon, noc, duhon, noah and/or tyrus, id do it in a heartbeat.

again, that is just me. my brothers friend saw kobe in a coffee shop in LA and he asked kobe if he wants to play in chicago, and kobe replied "man, i'd love to".

in my mind, the guy wants here. people can say he ruins teams and all that BS, but to me its like randy moss: if he comes here and wins, then he'll keep his mouth shut and be the best player in the world that he is

hinrich, deng, kobe, joe smith, and wallace, with sef, gardner, and gray coming off the bench

Amazing starting 5, but an incredibly weak bench.

It is all about depth when it comes to the postseason and if you have none your chances of winning a championship are slim and none. See the Spurs and the Pistons..

right. but i call that a better starting 5 then cleveland's of last year and they made the finals. with this lineup i think we can do some things.

Making the Finals from the East is not saying that much right now. "Doing some things" is not the goal. Winning it all is the goal.

If we're getting Bryant, I want to look at the deal and think it's a bargain, plain and simple.

Hey....if any deal is going to happen...it HAS TO HAPPEN by this Wednesday. It's deadline day for extensions.
So...if Gordon or Deng (which is actually doubtful...Deng anyway) are going to get dealt...they have to get extended to match salaries.

All of this also means that Noc won't be going anywhere because he couldn't be traded by the 15th of Dec.

So if the Lakers take anything it'll have to be Gordon, Thomas, Noah (probably Duhon for salary reasons) and a 1st. Deng isn't going anywhere. Wallace isn't going anywhere. Noc isn't going anywhere. Jerry Buss...if you don't like that deal...suck some friggin dirt....it's all you're getting.
I don't give a crap about those GM trader things...Paxson isn't going to purge the entire roster for Mr Rapist. I personally don't want to see it happen...and Pax doesn't have to do crap.

ps...the bears suck.

About needing a good bench to win a championship, that is true. But if you look at the Pistons and spurs really, you are talking about needing 3 good bench players. One of the Bulls biggest problems is that it is hard to distinguish talent wise from our 7th to our 13th best player. That is why the rotations are always terrible early in the year. Too many guys playing a few minutes not developing a consistent role or any rhythm.

Now that our best players are veterans, they could honestly stand to lose some depth. Deng and Hinrich should both be close to 40mpg this year (35.5 and 37.5 respectively last year).

The bulls want kobe, but they also think the team could be damn good as is, so they wont make a desperate deal to get him until after the season. That means if a deal goes down now Paxson is in a position of considerable power.

That means holding onto Deng. I know Kobe and Deng wouldn't be as good as MJ/Pip, but who cares? The NBA is not as good now as it was then. I think that's pretty obvious. The Suns, blazers, Jazz, and probably even the Sonics and Knicks and Pacers teams in their primes would all destroy San Antonio, Miami, or Detroit in a 7 game series.

Kobe has said if he comes here he wants to play with Ben Wallace. Great. I'm sure Kobe would re-energize Big Ben. And you have to keep Hinrich. 1) He's already signed to a reasonable deal. 2) Oh yeah. He's a perfect compliment to Kobe. Probably the best PG he's ever played with even (no disrespect to Ron Harper). They'd be the best defensive backcourt in the league, and Kirk is enough of a combo guard that he could be a useful scorer when kobe is playmaking but also give him someone reliable to play off of, something he hasn't had in his last few years.

I really think if you Keep Hinrich and Deng somehow and get Kobe their averages would go through the roof. THe same way guys playing with Nash or Shaq always have better stats. Kobe gets the same kind of attention for aggressive guys like deng and krich to really put up numbers.

Based on all acounts, the Lakers basically want 2 of kirk, deng, BG, and one or both of noah/TT, and maybe nocioni too.

Pax has leverage, I think he'd be willing to give up BG, Noah, and Nocioni without thinking too hard about it.

So negotation wise they are basically a Kirk/Deng apart and then some.

So what is Kirk/Deng + worth? How about cap relief (5 million in expiring contracts via Duhon/Khryapa) and 2 first rounders? And we agree to take back a bad contract.

So we trade BG, Noah, Nocioni, Duhon, Khryapa, and 2008 and 2010 first rounders for Kobe and Brian Cook. The money works...after Dec 15.

Active Roster:

Kirk
Kobe
Deng
TT
Wallace
--bench rotation---
Thabo/Curry
Thabo/Gardner
Thabo/Griffin
Smith/Cook
Gray/Smith

It's actually a solid bench considering thabo can sub at 3 positions for guys who will all be playing lots of minutes. He covers for a lot of people but actually should be reasonably available to do so. Joe Smith will provide steady veteran scoring off the bench as would Brian Cook or whichever underachieving pf the Lakers send us. And you can't forget it was only 17 months ago Griff was starting in the finals for Dallas. If Gray, curry, and Gardner give anything off the bench you're talking about a rotation that could absolutely win it all. Maybe not this year. But, maybe, pretty soon, win a few.

It doesn't seem like a deep team because lately we've been so much deeper than this, but this is actually solid depth for a typical team with superstars.

This is a good trade for the bulls and decent for the Lakers. Pax has the leverage for the next few months, let's see if he can use it to put us over the top.

That's not really the case at all. They're both under contract for this season, so a sign and trade wouldn't work. At best they'd be base year compensation players, meaning you could only count 50% of their new deal in trades, making it pretty pointless, at worst they'd have the poison pill provision like Hinrich had last year, meaning they could only take in their previous salary while the extension amount counts against your out-going total (and I'd believe that would be the case).

Gordon or Deng would simply be traded as is, with an extension needed at the end of the year (though I'm sure LA could talk to them and get a feel for their demands beforehand).

Crap, I was hoping with the season approaching this would all start to go away...

I have no problem with Gordon going to LA, they just cannot trade Luol.

If someone can show me a deal that doesnt include Wallace or Deng that matches up salary-wise, then I will start to believe.

At this point I don't even think a plausible deal is even possible.

If Deng is included, we better get Bynum back as well to offset the losses of Noah and Thomas.

They aren't trading Deng. Don't even bother talking about that.

There are financially feasible deals, it just involves giving up like 5 players minimum. Gordon and his 4.8 mil salary is a fairly major start, Noah and/or Tyrus adds a few more mil, and then you close the gap by throwing in guys like Duhon, Khyrapa, Griffin, Noc if you wait until December, or maybe a sign-and-trade with Brown. Then of course there's Kirk, but he's a base-year compensation guy so it doesn't help that much. The bigger thing is matching salaries and still getting the talent close, since you're basically throwing a lot of crap at them to match the salaries without sending Deng or Hinrich (neither of which makes much sense).

i'd give up noc, duhon, gordon, noah, and a 1st round pick for kobe

Before all of this I liked the idea of trading Kirk and Ben with a backcourt of Thabo and Kobe but now that I've seen Thabo's lack of progression I don't like that idea anymore.

I've read that Kobe wants to play with Big Ben and the Bulls have already stated they are not including Deng in any Kobe related trades so throw Wallace and Deng out of the picture for players going to LA. That leaves you with these "good" players.

Kirk
Ben Gordon
Nocioni

Also you have the "Young Talent" which includes

Tyrus
Joakim Noah
Thabo

LA is going to want atleast 2 of Chicago "Good" players and its not likely we give up Kirk because we would have no point guard capable of being a starter (Duhon still sucks). So now its..

Nocioni + Gordon

If they can't get equal value for Kobe (Which they can't) they will demand a young talented player or two to help sweeten the deal. That could mean Joakim or Tyrus basically and I think Pax has always left the option open that we may not keep Noah even if we drafted him. Especially because of the signs Aaron Gray has shown so far this preseason.

Nocioni + Gordon + Noah

Those 3 players equal a grand total of $15,517,069 which still doesn't quite equal Kobe Bryant's $19,490,625 contract. Now is where the fillers come into play. I don't see much sense in keeping Khryapa because he will never get any playing time even if Nocioni leaves so throw him on board. That just about equals Kobe's contract. Now we can't just send our whole team over there so we are going to need some of there lesser players as well to stay within 12 players so they can give us Maurice Evan's expiring contract. Then you can throw in Duhon's 3 million dollar contract to finalize the deal. So the deal could be..

Nocioni + Gordon + Noah + Duhon + Khryapa for Kobe Bryant and Maurice Evans

Which means..

PG Hinrich
SG Kobe
SF Deng
PF Smith
C Wallace

Bench:

Tyrus
Thabo
Gray
Griffin
JamesOn
Gardner

That bench kind of sucks and we still need 3 more players I believe to get to the 15 player roster so we'd have to sign guys. This is why this Kobe trade is so hard to even fathom. If we can't get rid of Big Ben or Kirk, that makes the deal so hard but I just showed you one way its possible hehe.

Phil Jackson admitting there has been talks pretty much daily with the Bulls says a lot. It says Pax is interested after all. I expect nothing to get done before December 15th. At that date the Bulls can deal Nocioni. If they extend Deng they CANT deal him until the offseason. So i highly expect them to extend Deng, not Gordon. .
I'm guessing Paxson's final offer come December 15th will be:
Nocioni (8.5 Mill), Gordon (4.88 Mill), Thomas (3.5 Mill), Khryapa ( 2 Mill) =18.88 Mill

Bryant (19.49 Mill)

I think Tyrus Thomas being involved will be the key ingrediant that gets the deal done. The Bulls will still keep Noah as they will need a back up at PF for Joe Smith. Plus there are talks that the Bulls may aqcuire Juwan Howard to bring back alittle depth to the bench.

One thing that may prevent this deal from ever happening is the Lakers or Bulls getting off to amazing starts. If this happens I expect Pax to just "wait" for the offseason.

A lineup of:
Hinrich PG - Duhon, Curry
Bryant SG - Sefolosha, Griffin
Deng SF - Griffin
Smith PF - Howard, Noah
Wallace C- Noah, Gray

I just can't see us getting rid of Ty Thomas when they could get rid of Noah. Like I said before I think Paxon got him in case of a Kobe trade and from what I had read after the draft reporters didn't seem to confident this guy would even be on the opening day roster because they figured he might be traded. That trade would probably work though GreatScott82 ^^

We get it, you loooove Tyrus. Tyrus can do no wrong, we must hedge all our wages on him, etc etc.

At least you stick to your guns though, I respect that, but I think if Kobe comes here, Mr. Thomas goes to LA. I have a feeling that the Lakers want Tyrus more than they want Noah, because they have to get some sort of highlight reel dunker coming back.

I think GreatScott's proposed deal is very realistic and one of the better ones I've heard out there. Good work, most of these Kobe to the Bulls proposed deals have been dumb but that one was good.

By all means... If we can get Kobe for a package of Nocioni, Gordon, Noah and Krhyapa.. YOU DO IT in a heart beat... I think that only happens if Kobe continues to back LA in a corner by December 15th. We have to remember that Kobe has a no trade clause which not only gives him leverage but it gives the Bulls leverage because they won't have to give up as much. I love Noah's energy but you get that same energy in Thomas. And i also think Gray will be more valuable to this team than Noah because of his size down low.

The fact that they are talking every day makes things interesting.. that means that a trade can't involve Nocioni if they do it now. Which would also indicate that LA wants Deng AND Gordon with probably Noah in a deal. IMO the 2 guys you can't give up are Hinrich and Deng..the reason is, they play stellar DEFENSE which is hard to come by in the NBA.

I just think your giving a way a whole lot of talent if you include Tyrus in the deal instead of Joakim. Yeah I like Tyrus but Joakim just screams LA at you with his personality and all. He'd make a nice fit right next to Ronnie Turiaf who is another freak of nature.

Tyrus isn't the kind of player that stops a trade to get Kobe.

Seriously.

GreatScott, your math is a little off, though I do think that if it gets done it will look similar to that. Nocioni is a base year compensation player, which means you can only count half of his current salary in an out-going trade. That means we'd have to add a bit more crap to get close, though to fit under the rules we only need to get to about $15.5 mil. That probably just means sending like Adrian Griffin or maybe Duhon as well.

Today they are talking about a Gordon/Noah/Thomas plus a draft pick deal. Im not even sure that would work unless maybe they sign Gordon to an extension before the trade. Anyway, if that really is the case i would do it. Even though it means trading our two young big men. You would still have a nice starting five:

PG: hinrich
SG: kobe
SF: deng
PF: smith/nocioni
C: wallace

It sounds like a deal would be impossible if they signed either Deng or Gordon (if they were in the final trade) to an extension before the trade.

Don't forget we still have PJ Brown's contract which isn't up until after October 31. I forgot about that until I saw it on another forum. We would do a sign and trade and we would be able to match salaries easier to finish off a trade. So I guess it makes since that this deal could get done by tomorrow.

I have a very good feeling this trade will get done. I am much more happy with a Gordon/Noah/Thomas/DraftPick trade than what i was hearing before. That seems pretty fair and not really a fleasing.

Take it for what it's worth, but Dan Bernstein just said that he got information that said that a deal of the following is 90% to get done within the next 48-72 hours.

Lakers get
Ron Artest

Kings get
Kirk

Bulls get
Kobe

other pieces will move, supposedly, and gordon might be out the door... but this is what he just broke with.

I would definitely take that with a grain of salt, since the Bulls would need to add around $10 mil to make it work. That'd be hard to do without adding other major pieces, unless the Lakers are going to take a gigantic sign and trade with Brown.

Man, that means Duhon or Sefolosha starting at PG, or possibly Gordon. Yeesh. I'd MUCH rather see Gordon as the centerpiece, Kirk can have an awful lot of value as a complementary guard that can limit turnovers, play defense, and stick the wide-open jumpers he's bound to get with decent regularity. I just don't think Sefolosha is ready, Duhon can't score/shoot, and Gordon as a PG on both ends worries me.

Obviously value-wise it's a no-brainer, but it doesn't seem to make sense with the rest of the team, you take a major hit at PG and end up with two SG's.

Ha, I would love to see Phil Jackson deal with Ron Artest. If Gordon is out the door, and Kirk goes to Sacramento, that really leaves a void at guard

Phil Jackson has openly stated he'd love to have Ron Artest

There is always the saying "Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it"

Artest in LA is a recipe for disaster. Especially considering that he would be the star player on that team after the trade

The trade involves Sacremento giving up Ron Artest.

Chi gets: Kobe

SAC gets: Tyrus Thomas or Joakim Noah, Khryapa, Hinrich

LA gets: Artest, Gordon

Im not sure the Score knows what they are talking about. They also said there was no way Paxson would trade Deng or Kirk so who knows. It might be too much giving up hinrich/gordon/noah/thomas. yikes.

My prediction:

Gordon, Kirk and the others start tonight, nothing happens tonight as far as a trade but tomorrow there will be a report that the deal has been made and everyone will go insane but they won't announce it till later tommorrow night and we give up my favorite player Tyrus Thomas

if they can get a trade done that doesnt involve deng then i say go go for it. honestly i think the team would be clearly better. I like Duhon at the point with a player like kobe on the team, we dont really need hinrichs shooting with a guy like kobe and also deng getting the majority of the points, they just need a point that knows how to get the ball to the 2 stars. I would also like Kobe running the point strictly for the fact that he demands double teams and can be a slasher point like tont parker or well kobe bryant. If the deal does happen and noc isnt involved I can see kobe driving to the basket and kicking it out to noc for 3.

what would you guys rather see

pg kobe
sg thabo

or

pg duh
sg kobe

a stat i like lookin at is in the 04-05 season kobe bryant averaged 6 assists per game along with 27ppg. Hinrichs best season he averaged 6.3 and 16.6. if we can get a season like that out of kobe thats just a .3 drop off in assists with a 11 point upgrade.


make it happen pax.


anyone know if earl boykins is still a free agent....if so what do you guys think about him running the point

Radio reports say Wallace and Gordon leaving...

ESPN reported that the deal with Chi sending Gordon and Wallace to LA for Kobe is not exactly dead but the deal fell through because LA balked at Wallace's contract. The deal also involved the Kings. He says talks are hotter than ever and its likely this deal gets tweaked to LA's liking within the next 24-48 hours.

Do we give in and let them have Deng instead of Gordon to get Kobe? I don't think so..

lets hope not, with Deng and Kobe i see no less than the conference finals.


as for the wallace deal, if the deal is done with out T2 then im for it but i dont wanna see thomas and wallace leave.


can smith handle the Center position??

Im damned curious to see whats gonna happen with this. As long as we dont give up Deng, which I really doubt we would, I would love to bring in Kobe.

I don't love the idea of trading Wallace, but better him then Deng or Hinrich. Plus, it would be nice to get rid of his ridiculously overpriced contract for a player on the decline like he is.

I dont see LA taking Wallace at all. And we have the edge on this deal because if we give up anything that would detract from our core Kobe will nix the deal and it falls through. I'm kind of attached to most of the players we got and I think we have some good potential in Thomas so I don't really want to see anyone traded but I'm thinking the most likely man is Gordon, with Kobe taking over his spot. I don't see Deng going anywhere. Possibly Hinrich but Hinrich and Gordon would be bad for us because that means Duhon has to start. YIKES.

I really think Kobe is going to be a Chicago Bull within 48 hours.