The Bulls don't need Kobe to succeed but they do need to unload on a couple of players and make a statement that Deng and Gordon are the future of the Bulls. They didn't before the season but a trade of the right players and a public statement that Gordon and Deng aren't being traded will be huge for Deng and Gordon mentally.

He's a list of players on the Bulls that need to be traded listed in order.

1. Ben Wallace - I'm going to use the Tyson Chandler logic on this one. He's paid way too much for what he's giving us. He's not what we need especially when we now have Noah. Shaq no longer being the beast of the east means we don't need Wallace. I'm not so sure he can guard Garnett anyway so he won't help us much if we make the playoffs. However, if we trade him we have to get a young big man in return.

2. Andres Nocioni - The contract was a joke. He's not worth the contract he has unless we don't plan on keeping Deng. I really really hope the second is not true. So we trade Nocioni

3. Coach Skiles - He's a joke. He thinks his insane lineups will produce results and he thinks benching his best players is going to help them play better. It worked for a couple of years but without a contract Deng and Gordon are going to be less willing to take his spiff. Not to mention his best friend Kirk is probably going to start getting pissed as well not that he was finally included in the doghouse.

4. Kirk Hinirch - He's not the future PG we need. But who is? That's the problem. We'll keep him just b/c we don't have a better option. But my opinion is that is no reason for keeping players that aren't the future. However, if we keep Kirk, Deng, Gordon, & add a great PF/C we still could make this thing work. But I'd rather trade him away to get a younger PG & younger PF/C if possible.

5. Thabo Sefolosha - Trade him if he has value. He still can't make a jump shot. I think he'd still have pretty good value. It's pretty bad that I really wanted Ronnie Brewer in the draft but instead we took Thabo. Ronnie is proving this year to be the better of the 2. Brewer is averaging 15.3 ppg, & 3 spg while shooting 43% from 3 point range. Anyway, lets just say that Paxson really fucked up that draft. We could have had Aldridge, Brewer instead of Tyrus, Thabo. But at least Tyrus is showing some productivity the past few games.

6. Tyrus - Trade Tyrus only if it is a must to bring you someone great in return. (Kobe, Gasol, or I'd even trade him for Chris Wilcox but that's just me)



Trades I wouldn't mind seeing

1. Corey Maggette & Elton Brand for Wallace, Tyrus, Nocioni, & Thabo.

2. Kurt Thomas, Robert Swift, Chris Wilcox, Delonte West for Ben Wallace, Tyrus & Thabo. - I really doubt the Sonics would consider this deal unless they get the whole franchise move figured out. However, I think a Tyrus, Durant, Green combination would be good for them to build on in the future. I'd love to get Wilcox, & West wouldn't hurt. But the best thing about this deal is the cap room it gives us by getting rid of Wallace's contract and b/c Kurt Thomas's $8 million is an expiring contract. That would give us money to resign Deng & Gordon and also maybe sign a decent free agent. Wilcox has 2 years left on his contract for around $6.5 million per year.

3. Devin Harris & Diop for Kirk Hinrich. It would likely never happen but I would love it if it did.

4. Marcus Camby, Chucky Atkins for Ben Wallace, Thabo & a future pick.

5. McDyess, Amir Johnson, & Rodney Stucky, & take Nazr's contract if you have to for Ben Wallace & Thabo & a future pick. The great thing about this deal is you get rid of Ben Wallace and you get Amir Johnson who like Tyrus could become a star (he has that kind of talent). YOu also get Stucky who is 10 times better offensively then Thabo.

6. Kirk Hinirich, Tyrus, & Nocioni for Tracy McGrady & Bonzi Wells. It would likely never happen (because Houston is thinking championship. It might have happened in the summer) but it would awesome if it did. T-Mac is one of those Pippen like SF's that makes the need for a top quality PG a none issue. Deng, Gordon, T-Mac, Wallace, Noah, Thabo, Duhon, is a great lineup to rotat through.

7. Kaman, Brand, Maggette, Cassell & Aaron Williams for Kirk Hinrich, Ben Wallace, Tyrus, Noah & Gordon. The Bulls finally get a white big man worthy of starting. The Clippers get a lot younger which is what they need. They need to start over and hope that Al Thorton is the future and that Livingston comes back. The Bulls bring the size that they've wanted. They still have Deng & Nocioni which is more than the Clippers had to work with.

A lineup of

Kaman
Brand/Smith
Deng/Nocioni
Maggette/Thabo
Cassell/Duhon

Only problem would be depth at Center. We'd have to win a title in the next 3 years and we'd have no outside shooting except for Nocioni. However, with Brand and Kaman in the post I don't think the 3 point shooting will be that bad with Duhon, Nocioni, & Cassell. Cassell's salary also comes of the books whichi would help in resigning Deng.

8. Andrew Bogut, Michael Redd, David Noel for Ben Gordon, Wallace & Tyrus.

9. Lamarcus Aldrige & Raef Lafrentz for Kirk & Noah

10. Shaun Marion & Barbosa for Kirk, Nocioni, & Tyrus

Noah/Wallace
Marion/Smith
Deng/(Marion)
Gordon
Barbosa/Duhon/Thabo

11. Bibby, Kevin Martin, & Kenny Thomas for Kirk, Gordon, & Wallace. We could even through in Spencer Hawes for Thabo if that would make the Bulls fans on this site happy. Basically this trade is for Kevin Martin. The Kings likely won't get anything great for Bibby but if they can get Kirk & Gordon I don't see them passing that up. The Bulls would then have

Noah/(Hawes?)
Tyrus/Smith
Deng/Nocoini
Martin(maybe a step better offensively then Gordon & taller)/Thabo
Bibby/Duhon

I think this lineup is better then what we have now.

i agree with shipping wallace and thabo out, but not noc, kirk, and tyrus. thabo cant make a shot for his life,and wallace is old and not needed we need someone that can score.

At this point Kirk can't hit a shot either. I know he'll likely end up just fine but just fine isn't good enough for $10 million. Kirk is shooting 31.8% FG & 15% from the arc.

If the Clippers traded Maggete AND Brand to us for that crap, their GM should be fired on the spot. And if the only reason Ben Wallace was signed was to guard Shaq, I would seriously consider whether Paxson is "all there".



Again, why in the Blue hell would Houston even consider that? That trade is even more laughable than the Magette Brand trade. You do realize your giving Houston zero allstars for a superstar on a contending team where rebuilding is the last thing on their mind?

And for your last trade, your basically saying, lets trade our starters for theirs. That will never happen in the NBA, ever. None but the Devin Harris Diop trade are even remotely close to being realistic. Your over thinking the situation, relax.

The reality of the situation is, the team is off to a very slow start, an unacceptable one, and were looking for answers. To me there is only one trade to consider as of right now and that is Kobe. How much longer is it going to take to get something done when 40,000 fans are chanting "KOBE KOBE KOBE" during games?

The first guy to get rid of on my list would be Skiles. This guy has no clue and the team is starting to tune him out. His offense, and all 4 plays that come with it, are putrid. It's no surprise that guys like Chandler play well as soon as they leave Chicago. Next would be Wallace who just looks old and lazy now. And then Sefolosha who does nothing for this team. We'd be better off playing Gardner, who at least showed the ability to attack the basket and make open shots in preseason.

I'm not ready to give up on Gordon, Deng, Hinrich yet. They simply can't be this bad. A 3 year sample size cannot be negated by 6 poor games.

Getting rid of Tyson Chandler was the biggest mistake Paxson has ever made IMO. I second that Skiles complaint. I've never liked his offense. He is strictly a defensive coach. I think he'd make a great assistant coach because of it. If we don't make the playoffs this year he may be on the hot seat but I just can't see John getting rid of someone he's trusted from day 1 of his tenure.

First, I know some of my trades are unrealistic. And I know I'm jumping to conclusions. But I also want a deal done and I don't want Kobe. I despise the guy.

Anyway, you freaking need to read before you talk about the Tmac deal. I said the same freaking thing. They are talking championship so I know they would not do the deal now. However, had we offered it over the summer after they had been bounced in the playoffs again, they might have considered the deal. Tmac had back issues last year and Bonzi didn't play at all. So why wouldn't they have been looking to rebuild. They didn't want Juwan Howard and they had no true PG. I really think they might have taken that deal last summer.

Anyway, the Clippers deal was the weirdest on that I threw on the board. I admit it. However, I believe that Brand has the option to opt out after this season so do they want to lose him for nothing? I also think that Maggette has the same option. Maggette will definately do it. He's definately worth more than $8 million. So with both of those players potentially pulling a Rashard Lewis and leaving for nothing why wouldn't the Clipper consider the deal I offered? I just think we would never offer it. However, I'd love a lineup of

Kaman
Brand
Deng
Maggette
Duhon

We'd get rid of a worthless contract in Wallace and replace it with a young stud in Kaman. I'd still like to do the deal without Noah. I really don't want to trade Noah.

Anyway, I know a lot of the spiff I posted was unrealistic but I really don't want Kobe. Paxson needs to find another way. To bad we are so close to the cap. It would have been really nice to be able to off Iverson, Deng, or Arenas big money to see if they wanted to play in Chicago.

The author's assessment is way off base on almost everyone he talked about. I agree with shopping Wallace, Thabo and Kirk. But Nocioni has been one of the only consistent players on the bulls this season. He brings more heart and intensity than anyone else. Tyrus is just showing what he can be once he hits his stride. I would say he is more untradeable than almost anyone.
Deng needs to show the coaches and the fans that he wants the basketball. he hasnt done so yet this season.

We dont need Kobe, we need a low post scorer. I think we should try to put a package together for Gasol.

I'm not in Houston's front office but I would almost guarantee you they had no intention of trading Tracy McGrady, and if they did, it would have to be for another elite superstar like Lebron, Kobe, Dirk, D-Wade etc..

Gasol is said to be unhappy again in memphis.

Would they do Gordon, Nocioni, and Noah after Dec 15th? Maybe.

I would be interested in that deal.

Because Thabo has looked like a starting shooting guard, and Noah hasn't looked like a good player? (Btw, per minute, Noah has so far been as effective as anyone on the team)

No, remember before this Kobe talk they wanted Deng and Gordon for Gasol. So would you rather do that or trade Deng and Gordon plus a few cap fillers for Kobe?

Well, honestly I don't like either of them. Adding Gasol while subtracting Gordon makes us better in the front court, but dramatically weakens our back court and puts another guy in front of Smith, TT, and Noah, who have actually been the strength of this team. And I still don't like the idea of trading 1/2 of our roster for Kobe to balance the cap. And Hell...as far as I can see, 3/4 of the reason for wanting a guy like Gasol to replace one of the guys we currently have is that you want him to be able to play the 2 man game with Gordon, where Gordon nails the outside jumper created by double-teaming Gasol.

I don't know if I've seen a trade proposal I've really liked all year that doesn't involve Wallace.

If we add Gasol I hope it's not for Gordon & Noah. How about we trade Nocioni, Gordon, Kirk, & Wallace & a future pick for Gasol, Miller, & Conley? That way we bring back a real PG (who probably needs a little time to develop), a good shooter, & a post player. We then have the following lineup

Gasol/Noah
Tyrus/Smith
Deng/(Miller)
Miller/Thabo
Conley/Duhon

Now that's a team to build around. Memphis really likes Lowry so I think they'd be more likely than ever to trade Conley especially if it brought in another PG.

A lineup of

Ben Wallace
Darko/Warrick
Gay/Nocioni
Gordon
Kirk/Lowry

is also damn good. It looks very similar to what has worked for the Bulls with Deng being replaced by Gay. And I'll go on a limb to say I think Gay could become a star. I think his ceiling is higher than Deng's. The only difference with this lineup is that Lowry is probably going to be better than Duhon if he isn't already. They also have Navarro who's a better 3 point threat then anyone we have on the bench. This trade also would allow Terrance Kinsey to start getting minutes. At the end of last year he was showing signs of becoming a good player. I think Memphis would really like to give Darko & Warrick big minutes and this trade could lead to that.

Anyway, I doubt Memphis wants to trade Gasol. I think the team looks pretty good so far. They have great young talent plus the all-star caliber PF/C. Not much you can ask for from a growing team.

While not a better player, I think Gasol would be a much better fit for the Bulls needs.

I would love to have Conley on the Bulls. At first I'd say they'd prefer to keep him, but after thinking about it, he is 3rd on their depth chart behind Mighty Mouse, and Lowry (sp?). I wouldn't put it past Jerry West to give up Gasol and Conley if and only if we give them Gordon, Deng, either Thabo or Duhon plus a first round pick. I don't think they'd be willing to give up Mike Miller even though Gordon would take his place in the lineups because they are giving away too much talent. But, who knows?

Conley
Kirk
Smith
Tyrus
Gasol

I like that lineup offensively but defensively we'd be pretty spiffy IMO.

That lineup is garbage for at least 2 more years if ever. If we are going to trade for Gasol/Conley we better not give up deng. We can give up Kirk/Gordon/Nocioni and a # 1 pick.

What I'd really want is to do a deal like this and then get a big expiring contract from some team by shipping Ben Wallace off (like Theo Ratliff's contract from Minnesota). Maybe even get Antonio McDyess (who's contract of $6.5 million expires).

Then we'd be able to fill our SG needs next year with Corey Maggette/Arenas/or Iguodala & we'd still have enough $ to get a good outside shooter to come off the bench.

We'd have the following lineup to build on for the future. I definately like it better than the one we have

Conley/Duhon (if signed)
Maggette
Deng
Noah/Smith
Gasol/Gray

I think that lineup would be great.

I look at it like this. If we can make some trades now for expiring contracts and draft picks I'm all for it. Especially if it's for either Nocioni or Wallace's contract. For that money we can get a legit all-star player on the free agent market next year. There will be very few teams with the cap room to pay out $12-18 million to a player and we could be one of those teams. So while we may not win a title this year the future outlook of the team could be much improved by such a deal.

IMO, I think most of your guys' complete overhaul type deals just aren't going to work. At some level, one of those steps would just get too complex or break down.

Right now, the way I see it, there is exactly 1 guy who I wouldn't mind moving, and that's Wallace, solely because of his contract. But the reasons we don't want him are the reasons no other team would want him also; age/injuries/slowing down.

It's possible, though not likely, that we might be able to pull off a bad contract/bad contract swap if we found the right team. And we might even do one that makes us better if some team is on the hook for several years, or if we included a #1 pick. I could certainly see Minnesota for that reason, as was said above, but Minny might well not want to give up their cap room yet if they want to find someone to play alongside Jefferson.

I think these discussions have to start and end with Wallace right now. If we have to tag along a player or pick with him, well then that depends on what we get back, but if we're moving something, it all has to be based around him. These swap half our starting lineup with some other team deals just aren't feasible to my eyes, and most teams would probably be crazy to try them.