Way to go Chandler...More fouls than points. You have a rare talent that allows you to commit more fouls than points or rebounds. After 5 years in the nba you would think he would understand the basic rules of the game. He was pathetic tonight. He was not boxing out, was not fighting for rebounds...which is literally the only thing he can do. When you get out hustled and rebounded by Doleac- that's pathetic.

And after 5 years of "watching" him play, you still don't understand what he does for the Bulls. Go watch and learn the game instead of looking at box scores.

apparently, you did not watch this game or any other...what does he do for the Bulls? he finished 2nd in the nba in fouls...he sends opponents to the line and allows them to score so they consistently get 3 point plays. He is not even smart enough to foul hard so they dont score.
He cant dunk, pass, etc.

What does he do? Besides, if he is always in foul trouble how is he helping the team from the bench? He's not. Why dont you try to post an intelligent statement instead of trying to insult me. Maybe you haven't learned that in junior high yet.

From what I hear Tyson was doing a nice job taking up space in the lane and affecting Wade on his drive attempts. I didn't see the game but that shouldn't be surprising he does it all the time.

To say Tyson was ineffective is just wrong. Stacy King was right in pointing out that he needs to at least be a threat on offense by rolling on the pick and rolls, but defensively he was mixing it up down low.
Tyson would of made those dinks that Sweetney missed.

Actually hes doing the same thing Noc and Deng do wich is rebound but IMO Noc is NOW a better rebounder than Tyson. The biggest thing about rebounding is "DESIRE" And Noc has more of that than Tyson does. I think a reason tyson sucked was about his wife. I mean, who wouldnt. Id be worried too.

Tyson is a far better rebounder than anyone else on this team.... although Nocioni does give the most hustle. I didnt see but from what I heard Wade struggled early but he was pretty good in the 4th. And that to me says b4 something was stoping him(Tyson) and in the 4th with no Chandler he had his way.

Chandlers complete lack of an offensive threat really hurts this team.
Thats the facts. If we can package a trade of some picks + Chandler for Garnett
that deal should be made in a heartbeat.

Give Tyson a break...everyone hates on him all the time. He didnt seem to do that bad last night, I think he was a little hesitent being on shaq, plus worried about his wife. Not his best game, but to call him useless? Well thats just not accurate. How many games did he win for us by blocking a shot this season? Chandler does a lot of things that you dont necessiarily see on paper. Just give him a break...I hope you are not blaming him for the loss last night, because that was a team effort & im still proud of our guys for staying with it.

Come on man... What exactly did you expect out of Tyson playing against the premier center of our lifetime? Shaq had his best game I have seen in years, and it wasn't because of anything Tyson did or didn't do, its all about being the biggest strongest, and most talented big man in the NBA. When ONeal shows up like that, there isn't much ANYONE is going to do to stop him, let alone slow him down.

good luck getting garnett...

Nice way to say it... He makes people miss Layups being hes a great shotblocker also.

Tyson isnt the player to put up big #'s He helps alot

chandler only fouled out with a min or two left. Besides, wade drove over or around chandler several times, when he wasnt fouling him.

to say chandler blocks shots and wins game is way off base. he averages 1.2 blocks per game.

I dont see how 1 block a game is really changing anything.

He changes shots and that does not show up in a box score

Tyson Is the replica of Samuel Dalembert but Chandler is getting overpayed. I never understood why we payed him so much money but I seriously hope he works VERY HARD this offseason on his offensive game hopefully improving his scoring to at least 12.0 ppg. Thats the bare minimum. My god guys we cant give him all the credit in the world, he was a number 2 draft pick and hes been in the league 5 years now, SOONER OR LATER HES GOTTA PERFORM!!

Just adding my .02, where Tyson was drafted doesn't matter anymore and expecting him to be a superstar on both sides of the floor is not going to happen at this point. Also, Tyson still needs to learn how to avoid getting called for the cheap fouls that cut into his PT.

That being said, Tyson does a LOT of things that a team needs. He rebounds, he blocks shots (and shots he doesnt block, he alters). The Bulls really need a veteran big man to complement Tyson, someone who can draw a double team and allow Tyson to get more weak side putbacks.

Once again, I'd just like to point out...this thread is exactly why we need 1 more big man to fill sort of the Eddy Curry role from last season, except hopefully minus the sucking.

tyson is a very good defensive player on this team, despite seeming to have the lowest basketball IQ since........hmmmm......i can't think of anyone worse

but he fills the role of shot blocker and defender. I can name several times these last two years that he blocked game winning shot attempts or shots in key moments.

What is frustrating is that some nights he seems like he could average a respectable 8-12 ppg. Wouldn't we all be happy if he averaged 10 & 10? I mean, 2-3 putbacks a game, 2 times guards drive to the hoop and dish for a dunk and one time making a close range shot on his own is at least 10ppg. That sounds more than reasonable. And there have been plenty of games where he has done this, but where's the consistency?

That said, if we are trading for a big man that's a perennial all star with some defensive skill i have no problem sending him, but if we are trading for a two guard or anything else we can't afford to lose our (sadly?) most effective big.

This post is right on 100% correct.

For all of you who expect Tyson to develop an offensive game... stop dreaming, it's not going to happen. That's not what Chandler does.

He blocks shots, he alters shots, and he puts doubt in the mind of anyone who wants to try and cut through the middle for a basket. He forces teams to settle for jump shots that they aren't comfortable taking.

Did anyone notice how Wade was scoring at the end of the game? He was faking the drive and pulling up to hit shots. That's not Dwayne Wade's strength (althought he's still damn good at it).

Chandler also did a great job, along with Sweets and Allen, of keeping Shaq off the low block for most of the game. These are the things that Chandler can do for you.

But guess what? If we get a dominant inside scoring threat, the double teams will open Chandler up for easy backdoor layups, ally-oops, and offensive put-backs. That's the only way Chandler will produce offensively. And you still can't expect much more then 8-10 ppg from him then.

I don't subscribe to that theory.

Unless we're gonna get a declining shaq, Yao, or curry, what scoring big men are people expecting? A scoring PF will just push tyson to the bench. Maybe we trade for kaman or krstic? Obviously none of those scenarios are going to happen.

Unless you have a top 3 C, championship-caliber teams will have a scoring PF and a defensive C because after the top 5 or so C's, there is a significant drop-off in center talent. Scoring PF's, on the other hand, are more abundant.

Not to mention that tyson's defense is overrated. I've never seen him shut down any PF or C, much less an elite one. His big contract isn't worth a player who might block or alter a SG's shot in the lane once or twice a game while grabbing a handful of boards and basically doing nothing else in any other facet of the game and making stupid mistakes.

I agree.

Sorry but a little rant here..I digusts me how so many people
are on Tyson Chandlers nuts. He has a 15 rebound game and every
one wants to put him in the hall of fame.


Hell with the money he makes and what little money he makes he should
be averaging 12+ boards a game to justify his contract.

He is such a liablity on the offense end that other defenders can completely
igore him to double other Bulls. For crying out loud he can't even rotate off
a screen.

Wow...Tyson "The god" Chandler with 3 points! BUT WAIT! He had 9 rebounds almost double digits!

Serioulsy..Chandlers a worthess scrub. A freaking disgrace.

Well no spiff he sucks this year, he has no other big man help. Last year he had Curry to compliment him and he put up awesome numbers, we trade Curry and of course Chandler's numbers will go down. Not to mention he is a PF playing the Center position. He is constantly giving up 50+ pounds to the opposing team Center. Just wait til next year when we have Alderage/Al Harrington to help Tyson out.

Tyson chandler was outplayed by Doleac in game 2 tonight. Enough said.

Terrible...just terrible.

my favorite chandler play tonight was when Posey drove into the lane. He jumped into the air, fouled him, Posey still made the basket and knocked chandler back on his ass.

Hasnt he learned if he is going to foul someone, to foul them hard so they dont score.

I love that tattoo on his arm "only the strong survive"

Tyson have you put on anything more than 10lbs since high school?

Do you guys know each other or something?

Again, you need to learn the game of basketball. Tyson isn't going to score. He is allowed to have a bad game from time to time. Chandler was a big reason why the Bulls won 12 of their last 14 games coming into the post season. If you can't see that, then you don't know basketball.

Did you guys both draft Tyson Chandler in your fantasy league?

you're right, TYson is allowed to have a bad game 8/10 games. Why expect him to play with the intelligence of an nba player who has been in the league for 5 years. Why should I expect him to not allow Doleac to own him on the glass. Why would I expect him to block shots, instead of foul and allow the shooter to score and have a 3 point play.

You are right. Good thing I know nothing of basketball. We are lucky to have such a low basketball IQ, with no offensive skills, no passing skills, more fouls than points and sometimes rebs and most importanlty...GOT outplayed by Doleac!!!!

The fact that you cry that Chandler fouls shows how much you know right there.

My reason's for critizing Chandler are vaild...and to that point I would like to argue..
the fact that at 7'1" he cannot score...well that is pathetic.

He has been in the league for 4+ years now and he can't develop some type of inside move...a small jump hook or something?

That is unacceptable.

That being said if a guy that is getting paid a ton $$$ and has no offense game what so ever...He better be a top 3 rebounder in the league. Hell even Ben Wallace is an offensive threat at times.

I agree, even the commentators have said that when the Bulls are in an offensive set with Chandler in the game, they are basically playing 4 on 5 because teams dont respect Chandlers offensive game. And when he is putting himself on the bench because of foul problems after playing 3 minutes in the first half, well, he isnt helping the team at all.



Not in the playoffs he is not. Thats a cop-out for your Tyson Man-crush. You are going to have to face the fact that Tyson is hurting the team more than he is helping the team right now. When your 64 million dollar man is playing less than half the game in both playoff games, something is wrong with that. We cant even count on Tysons defense right now because he cannot keep himself in the game long enough to play defense.

Indeed...

I see it on screen rolls all the time...Chandler pops out to set a screen for a guard
and he can never get free becaues both defenders are completly ignoring Chandler.


I dont understand all the love for Chandler on this board...he is a poor mans Marcus Camby.

Ben Wallace has Rasheed Wallace down low to take the pressure off of him. Tyson has Malik Allen, nuff said.

Ben Wallace's best season on the boards was the 2002-2003 season, when Rasheed Wallace was a Trailblazer.

nuff said.

Dispite the obsession of people on hating Tyson, you are all ignoring the fact that all of the Bulls big men do not fit into this offensive scheme. None of them have a consistant offensive game, none of them can defend Shaquille O Neal, and none of them take any pressure off of the guards whatsoever. I know everyone is looking at Chandlers contract and size and thinking that he should able to score 20 points and get 12 rebounds a game, but if it were that easy, the NBA would be loaded with quality centers, but guess what it isn't! Tyson is matched up with the greatest big man that most of you have ever seen. He isn't going to have any offensive game, he is going to pick up a lot of fouls, and he isn't going to be able to roam freely like he likes to. Defending ONeal takes away from any big mans game, but I guess it provides the necesary excuse for everyone to blast away at Tyson again, and ignore the real causations of these loses.

The Bulls are just too small as a team.

So what? He gets to roam freely because of the double team that Rasheed attracts. Also the Pistons are a much better shooting team than that season, plus they have Rasheed to snag some of those rebounds that Ben used to get. Of course his numbers aren't as high, it doesn't make any sense otherwise.

And all of that has nothing to do with Ben Wallaces threat level on offense.

ok I am confused here.....that is why I am critizing him.

I don't care for Chandler because his offensive game is terrible
and hamstrings us on offense.

My point with that post is that to say Chandler struggles because he doesn't have a good big guy next to him is a copout...a complete copout.

Exactly. Look, everyone is frustrated with Tyson when he sticks himself on the bench with fouls early in the game, but the fact of the matter is Malik Allen would barely crack most teams 8 man rotation and he is starting for the Bulls. Yes, Tyson needs to improve on the offensive end (most notably actually rolling to the basket on screens), and he absolutely needs to learn how not to foul, but he is only 23 years old. Tyson has shown that he can change the game on the defensive end much like Ben Wallace can. He needs to get more consistent, it's true, and he needs to at least impact the offensive end, but there have defintiely been flashes.

It's also a copout to make Tyson the scapegoat for this team losing to the Heat when they have only 1 guy in the post that would crack any contender's 8 man rotation (Tyson).

Actually I am frustrated with Chandler because every time he gets the ball on the offensive end..he looks likes "a deer in headlights"

I never made him a scapegoat for the loss.

The entire team outside Noc played like spiff last night.

I am pointing out how severly overrated/overpaid Chandler is.

My point is everyone is obcessed with Tyson, when outside of a player or two, the whole team sucked. The guards were terrible, the big men were terrible, no one played quality defense, and we got burned by the scrubs. Tyson probably has the best excuse on the team to have a bad series, being matched up with Shaq... What is Kirk Hinrich's excuse for all of the stupid turnovers and foreced shots? What is Chris Duhon's excuse for not being able to hit an open shot? What is Andres Nocioni's exucse for letting Walker and Posey score at will? Why the obcession with Tyson Chander? We all know he has no offensive game, so why hammer on that, when there are players who are failing in areas way less expected than Tyson Chandler not scoring?

I guess I just don't get it.

And a guard rotation that has failed miserably when the team was counting on them. No one was counting on Tyson Chandler to score and hold Shaq down on defense.

If i could break down everything that went wrong last night, it would take a while, and it sure wouldnt put all of the blame on Chandler. Sweetney never leaves his feet for a rebound, yet he always leaves his feet when someone drives at him. Chandler cannot stay in the game long enough to make an impact. Duhon misses wide open shots. The team has no offensive continuity until they are down 10-3 to start the game. Hinrich cannot control himself in the final 4 minutes of the game, and Ben Gordon disappeared. Thats a small encapsilation of what happened last night. Yet the Bulls still made a game of it. I really like the attitude of the team, but their weaknesses seem to stem from Youthful inexperience, and it shouldnt be that way right now. This is their second year in a row in the playoffs, and they are all acting like they have never been there before. I think they will come out and have a good game thursday, but it looks like it is too late for that right now.
Both of the first two games came down to making plays in the end of the 4th quarter, Which they couldnt do. In the first game Hinrich inexplicably dribbled down the wide open lane, passed up a wide open layup and did a jump pass turnover. In the second game the Bulls rushed down the court and Gordon got his "giant killer"(I wish I never heard that term ever again) swatted into next week. This team competes, but doesnt seem to have the killer instinct when they need it.

lol

Is it malik allen's fault that he can't conatin ANY legitimate PF or C one-on-one? Is it his fault for all of the stupid fouls and dumb mistakes?

How does tyson have such a low basketball IQ after 5 years in the league?

Way too many excuses from the tyson apologists...Double-digit rebounds and 2+ blocks per game with less stupid mistakes for a full, consistent season isn't too much to ask for a 7-foot, 5-year player with a big contract who isn't asked to do anything AT ALL on offense...

Like I said, I will never get the Tyson Chandler obsessions of Chicago Bulls fans. He either has to be the great ever, or the worst ever, and there is nothing in between.

Bottom line, Tyson Chandler didn't lose us either of these games. Making tons of posts and threads screaming that crap out loud, doesn't make it true, especially while completely ignoring the players who are singlehandedly sending the Bulls home prematurely.