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eddog2
Andre Iguodala is a budding star. He's proving it against Detroit and I wish he was on the Bulls instead of Deng. That will of course never happen but it could have if we would have drafted the right player.

What's so scary is that the 76ers are so young and they have so much cap room. Iguodala will get a big contract but without him on the books going into next season they only have $34 million. That means they could resign him and another big time player. Or they could use their 16th pick and trade some other parts like Andre Miller's 2009 expiring contract ($10 million) and they could beat us to the punch on any possible trade (that would suck b/c we really need a good trade or some ping pong magic to be the team we need to be). We have similar trade assets but their expiring contract and their young players have more cheap contract years than our do. That means they'll likely get more interest from a team willing to make a deal. (Elton Brand or Shaun Marion. Though I believe they'd look at Marion before Brand).

The 76ers are a scary team. Iguodala is awesome and they are one unselfish star away from being great. They remind me of the Bulls of 2 years ago but for some reason I don't think they'll make the same mistakes as the Bulls. They won't be trading their big man Dalembert like the Bulls did with Chandler. They are smart. They are building a great athletic team and I'm sure this summer they'll be big time players in whatever moves are made. Hopefully the same can be said for the Bulls.
ZoomSlowik
Iguodala is a talented player that's definitely more athletic than Deng and makes more plays as a passer, but he's been HORRENDOUS in this Detroit series, if anything they're winning in spite of his poor play in this particular series. Through the first 3 games he was averaging 10.3 points on 24.4% shooting while turning it over 4 times a game, and has 12 points on 4-16 shooting with another 5 turnovers in this loss tonight. That'll put the series at 2-2, and as long as Detroit actually shows up they'll win. Philly needs another complementary player that can be a solid mid-teens scorer and take some of the scoring pressure off Iguodala, and a replacement PG if they move Miller. The one thing on their side is that Thaddeus Young has some serious talent and could easily be that guy, and Louis Williams is a pretty good sniper with very good quickness (kind of a very poor man's Gordon).
eddog2
QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Apr 27 2008, 08:47 PM) *
Iguodala is a talented player that's definitely more athletic than Deng and makes more plays as a passer, but he's been HORRENDOUS in this Detroit series, if anything they're winning in spite of his poor play in this particular series. Through the first 4 games he was averaging 10.3 points on 24.4% shooting while turning it over 4 times a game, and has 12 points on 4-14 shooting with another 5 turnovers in this pending loss. That'll put the series at 2-2, and as long as Detroit actually shows up they'll win. Philly needs another complementary player that can be a solid mid-teens scorer and take some of the scoring pressure off Iguodala, and a replacement PG if they move Miller. The one thing on their side is that Thaddeus Young has some serious talent and could easily be that guy, and Louis Williams is a pretty good sniper with very good quickness (kind of a very poor man's Gordon).


He's been having trouble with his shooting but I'm sure he'll correct that these last 2 games. As for the rest of your post would not Shaun Marion correct those issues? They could essentially get Marion without having to trade anyone and they'd still have Miller. Marion fits their uptempo system just perfect. Plus he'll add a sorely needed extra outside shooter. Or maybe they add Jamison? Williams is still very young and could become a lot better considering he never really got to develop his game in college. He entered the league too early out of high school and he's slowly been learning how to play the game. He's explosive and his jump shot just keeps getting better. I agree with you that Young could become that guy. Young has been pretty good earlier than I thought he would be. He's got great size and he could have a breakout year next year if he works hard to improve his game this summer.

Dalembert
Marion/Evans
Young
Iguodala/Carney
Miller/Williams
ZoomSlowik
Unless I'm missing something, your cap-math is a bit off. They're currently about $18 mil under the cap with no sizeable deadweight coming off the payroll. However, Iguodala's extension will eat up the bulk of that. IIRC he turned down a 5-60 extension, and he didn't exactly do anything to drop that demand. That means that he's likely to eat up $10 mil out of that total, if not more, and Louis Williams is a restricted FA as well.

Or look at it this way. Take that 34 mil and make it about 36 or so with the draft pick holds and add about 13 mil for Iguodala. That puts you at 49 mil, or somewhere around 10 mil under the cap. Then add in Louis Williams and whatever he'll get and you're down to somewhere between 4 and 8 mil depending on how big a deal he gets. Granted that's potentially enough to bring in something useful (depends on how much the end up paying those two), but not enough to bring in a Marion or Jamison unless they take a sizeable paycut or the Sixers unload some salary.
Steve9347
Iguodala's a good player, and you won't find someone who thinks Deng is more overrated than myself, but I wouldn't say Iguodala has been that great at all... not nearly as good as your post Edwin.

Andre Miller has really adopted the run n gun offense as well as anyone, and the entire roster just looks ready to roll in the fast system. I agree that Shawn Marion would be a perfect fit for that team.
eddog2
QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Apr 27 2008, 10:42 PM) *
Unless I'm missing something, your cap-math is a bit off. They're currently about $18 mil under the cap with no sizeable deadweight coming off the payroll. However, Iguodala's extension will eat up the bulk of that. IIRC he turned down a 5-60 extension, and he didn't exactly do anything to drop that demand. That means that he's likely to eat up $10 mil out of that total, if not more, and Louis Williams is a restricted FA as well.

Or look at it this way. Take that 34 mil and make it about 36 or so with the draft pick holds and add about 13 mil for Iguodala. That puts you at 49 mil, or somewhere around 10 mil under the cap. Then add in Louis Williams and whatever he'll get and you're down to somewhere between 4 and 8 mil depending on how big a deal he gets. Granted that's potentially enough to bring in something useful (depends on how much the end up paying those two), but not enough to bring in a Marion or Jamison unless they take a sizeable paycut or the Sixers unload some salary.


If I'm not wrong, can't they sign Marion before they resign Williams or Iguodala again? I don't think Williams is restricted thus he doesn't count against the cap until signed. Iguodala on the other hand will count against the cap somewhat until signed but not at the value of his future contract (until that contract is signed or offered or until Iguodala gets an offer from another team (and there are many teams with that kind of money to offer). He essentially counts against the cap by 250% of his salary which is $2.8 mil * 250% = $7 milliion. So they sign Marion first. Before they sign him their salary including Iguodala will be $43 million. Now I'm not sure how the mid-level exceptions and everything play into this but I think they's still have room to give Marion a pretty sizeable contract as long as they do it before they resign Iguodala. The Bulls on the other hand have 2 higher paid restricted free agents and thus essentially no cap room when you add 250% to both Deng and Gordon's contract. Gordon's especially since he makes over $6 million.

Either way, Philly will be really close to the luxury tax if not over by signing all 3 but they should have the resources to make a serious run at Marion. I'm also sure they wouldn't mind going over the cap since they know that Andre Miller's $10 million comes off the books at the end of next year. Even if they want to keep Miller he won't be able to command $10 million again.
ZoomSlowik
Williams is also a restricted free agent, that's been mentioned in the ESPN free agency preview articles several times. Their combined total count with the minimum qualifying offers is like 9.4 mil, plus there are draft pick holds to make sure they can sign their picks (probably 2-3 mil), plus maybe some other ones I'm forgetting (I don't claim to be a cap expert). So I guess in theory unless I'm missing some holds of some sort they can offer 11-14 mil depending on the holds and where the cap ends up. However, all that has to happen is one team making a sizeable offer sheet to either player (essentially anything to Iguodala or anything over $6 mil or so to Williams) and that totally blows up their plans, as they'd have to match the offer and count that against the cap or be forced to let them walk. I also might be missing something, because everything I've read says they can't add a sizeable contract assuming they re-sign Iguodala. Even if they can, I kinda doubt they would since that'd basically guarantee a trip into luxury tax land. Marion in particular could be problematic because he'd have to opt out of a $17 mil option, which wouldn't be too smart in a year where not too many teams have money to burn.
Chisoxfn
Technically speaking the Bulls could have drafted both Deng and Igudola, which is a move I always supported. However, you never know what would have happened and I still believe that Deng has the ability to be an above average player in the NBA. I don't know if the term "star" will ever be uttered in the same sentence as Luol, but I certainly expect at least a couple all star years out of him.

I also don't know if I buy into the Iguodala love. I think Igu is the better defensive player and the better all around athlete, however, Luol has far more offensive game.
Steve9347
QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 7 2008, 12:54 PM) *
Technically speaking the Bulls could have drafted both Deng and Igudola, which is a move I always supported. However, you never know what would have happened and I still believe that Deng has the ability to be an above average player in the NBA. I don't know if the term "star" will ever be uttered in the same sentence as Luol, but I certainly expect at least a couple all star years out of him.

I also don't know if I buy into the Iguodala love. I think Igu is the better defensive player and the better all around athlete, however, Luol has far more offensive game.

Sure it will.

"Luol Deng will never be a star." tongue.gif
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