TalkBulls Forums > Rumor: Hinrich for Camby

Chisoxfn

Jun 29 2008, 08:34 PM

http://www.talkchicagosports.com/blog/?p=110
By Jason Gage

QUOTE

The New York Daily news is reporting that the Chicago Bulls have had preliminary discussions with the Denver Nuggets in a trade which would send point guard Kirk Hinrich to the Nuggets in exchange for center Marcus Camby.

GM John Paxson has to clear up the log-jam at the guard position and moving Hinrich for Camby fullfills both the need to clear the guard position as well as the need to get a second center to join Joakim Noah (with Gray as the final man on the bench). Camby is a defensive specialist who has had an injury prone career, but assuming Camby, Noah, Thomas, and Gooden can all split signifciant minutes amongst each other you’d be talking about a front-court with both upside and veteran presence.

I’d rather see Hinrich kept with Gordon leaving, but many analysts around the league have indicated that Derrick Rose’s slashing style of play could bring out the very best in Ben Gordon. The logic behind such statement is that as Rose develops he’ll be able to find guards on the perimeter for open shots on a regular basis and that will play into Gordon’s strenght (his tremendous pure shooting).

Assuming the Bulls plan on giving Noah & Tyrus both 30 minutes a piece on a regular basis, I’d be a major fan of this move. The Bulls will still need to find a taker for Larry Hughes if possible and than use the exception on a veteran point-guard who can work with Rose.

Could you imagine a lineup with:
Vet PG/Rose
Sefolosha/Gordon
Deng/Nocioni
Gooden/Tyrus Thomas
Noah/Camby/Gray

Note: Larry Hughes could still appear in this lineup as well (since odds are you won’t find much of a taker on him this season or at least not until the trade deadline)

That lineup possesses solid veterans (which the youngest team in the NBA needs) as well as all the upside in the world. It also has shooters, post players, and defensive stoppers. In fact, I think you are looking at the makings of a legitimate playoff team there which could grow into a title contender (and Camby’s contract, which last two more seasons, turns into an asset as it comes off the books in time for the 2010 off-season).

DutheDoduhon21

Jun 29 2008, 10:34 PM

camby would definently give us a veteran presence and really help out tyrus and noah, and be huge on the defensive end and rebounding. is it hinrich straight up for camby?

Chicago Bulls Franchise

Jun 29 2008, 10:47 PM

DO IT! Camby would be awesome for us! See if we can get Melo too

However I'm definitely not a fan of that Vet PG starting ahead of Rose. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! Or atleast it better not!

SoxFan1

Jun 29 2008, 11:02 PM

I'm not as big a fan of this as I am getting Brand. Camby is a damn fine defensive player, but we need scoring down low. Camby is 34 and averaged 9 and 13 last season. There is no reason to believe Noah couldn't offer similar production and he is much younger. I also dislike it because it takes Noah out of the lineup. Though a guy like Camby would be phenomenal for his development as a player. Anyone know much about Camby's leadership/coaching abilities?

dasox24

Jun 29 2008, 11:09 PM

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 29 2008, 09:43 PM)

http://www.talkchicagosports.com/blog/?p=110
By Jason Gage

I might be down for that trade. I know my preference is trading Hinrich in a deal for a guy like Brand or Wade, but those aren't very likely to happen. Something like Hinrich for Camby is much more likely. Camby would definitely add a nice veteran, defensive presence for this team. The downside is that it won't allow Noah or TT to get the 30 mpg or so that a lot of people want them to get. It may continue to stunt their growth by giving a bulk of minutes to an offensively limited Center (Sound familiar? Wallace...) Granted, Camby is much better defensively than Ben Wallace right now, but it still kinda sucks to see our young guns sit on the bench that much.

The minutes would have to split up something like this...
Camby - 28
Gooden - 25
Noah - 25
TT - 18 (plus, some mpg at the 3 spot)

I guess in the end, I wouldn't really want this trade to happen unless it preceded another move in which Gooden or Tyrus was traded. I just don't think Camby would be that much of an upgrade over Noah to warrant taking away minutes from the young guys, especially since adding Camby wouldn't even make us Championship contenders. If this was a guy who could help us win this year, then I think you say "F" the young guys and go for it. But, he's not.

Big Chief Triangle

Jun 30 2008, 12:28 AM

I like the trade a whole lot, seeing how Hughes is pretty much untradeable (sic?).
Camby would be a nice presence in the middle until Noah's ready to take over.

Cowch

Jun 30 2008, 12:33 AM

When I first saw this deal I was all over it, but now I'm thinking it might not be the best. Noah might get hurt by this deal, although he also may gain something from it. If Pax could do Hinrich+others for a low post guy I'd be much happier, but if not, Camby would be fine with me. Doesn't he wear 23?

Steve9347

Jun 30 2008, 07:30 AM

This one is interesting, but I think it should be a last resort. It seems we have a tradeable commodity in Hinrich, and we need to start building around Derrick Rose. Camby's old knees don't allow for that.

You have to explore moves for the younger Brand or even the young Emeka Okafor. I'd wait on Camby, because he'll be nothign special pretty soon.

Bullies4Life

Jun 30 2008, 07:46 AM

I kinda like it, and kinda dont....

Pluses:

-Solid defensive player
-Will bring in some leadership
-Can teach a thing or two to our young players
-Can hit the mid-range shot
-Only 2 years left on contract (frees up money for the 2010 season)
-Bulls finally get someone to match up against Dwight Howard!
-Frees up some backcourt space
-Lets Rose get pretty much all of the minutes right away and develops quick

Negatives

-Might get the Ben Wallace effect, start to see him decline
-Injury prone
-He's no post player, which is something the Bulls still need
-Takes minutes away from our young guys

-At the end of the day, i think I would welcome this trade

ChitownMan

Jun 30 2008, 08:07 AM

I would be hesitant on aquiring Camby at this point and time. I also agree that he would be a good presence for this team however, concerns about his health and his age are just a bit too much to want to wait to overcome. There are better options available out there for us to get someone for the post versus who we have currently.

Chisoxfn

Jun 30 2008, 09:49 AM

QUOTE (DutheDoduhon21 @ Jun 29 2008, 09:43 PM)

camby would definently give us a veteran presence and really help out tyrus and noah, and be huge on the defensive end and rebounding. is it hinrich straight up for camby?

That is the rumor and I completely agree with your take. It basically gives the Bulls a very good mix of depth at all positions and a lot of these players have various skill-sets.

Chisoxfn

Jun 30 2008, 09:52 AM

QUOTE (steve9347 @ Jun 30 2008, 06:39 AM)

This one is interesting, but I think it should be a last resort. It seems we have a tradeable commodity in Hinrich, and we need to start building around Derrick Rose. Camby's old knees don't allow for that.

You have to explore moves for the younger Brand or even the young Emeka Okafor. I'd wait on Camby, because he'll be nothign special pretty soon.

I would be a big fan of Okafor because of his defensive presence and his solid all around offensive game (nothing great). He seems like he could be had, but I think any deal involving him takes more than a combination of Hinrich/Tyrus. However, I'd still consider a deal for Okafor or Brand assuming you can get them for Hinrich/Tyrus/Gooden (or a combination of those three). I would also do a deal centered around Gordon instead of Hinrich.

However, the big key is that if the Bulls deal Hinrich they will need to use the MLE on a veteran point guard who can work and help Rose.

Cowch

Jun 30 2008, 10:54 AM

After some more thought on this, he would fit perfectly really. Think of how Denver's been playing. Isn't that what Del Negro wants to play? He would fit our proposed system great, he is old though. I think the fact that he would be able to mesh right in plus his 2010 contract expiration make this trade more than just a last resort. I'd still take a better post player, but I'd rather this deal be done than something desperate.

soxfan3530

Jun 30 2008, 01:01 PM

QUOTE (Chicago Bulls Franchise @ Jun 29 2008, 11:56 PM)

DO IT! Camby would be awesome for us! See if we can get Melo too

However I'm definitely not a fan of that Vet PG starting ahead of Rose. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! Or atleast it better not!

Or having Noah start over Camby....

SoxFan1

Jun 30 2008, 01:51 PM

QUOTE (soxfan3530 @ Jun 30 2008, 02:10 PM)

Or having Noah start over Camby....

There is no way you trade Hinrich for Camby and have him sit on the bench. He's the DPOY.

Balta1701-B

Jun 30 2008, 02:23 PM

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jun 30 2008, 01:00 PM)

There is no way you trade Hinrich for Camby and have him sit on the bench. He's the DPOY.

Which of course is why every time I see one of these deals, I don't like it...because they keep taking playing time and development time away from the people I think we should be focusing on.

Conceptually, I'd love the idea of trying to stockpile a combination of expiring contracts and an extra first round pick or two for the guys (Hinrich) we're trying to move, because I'd rather be trying to trade for a vet to fill in a hole 2 years from now than right now given the age and inexperience of so many of our key guys.

Chisoxfn

Jul 8 2008, 10:35 AM

There are now some talk that the Bulls might keep Kirk Hinrich and play him as the 2 guard. It will be interesting to see how things work out. Hoopsworld is saying that once the big FA deals go down than teams will really start to focus in on Hinrich who will be an attractive option as many many teams are looking for a starting caliber PG and Hinrich is easily the best of the available options. In addition, Jerry Reinsdorf is apparently a big believer in Hinrich and Mark Stein indicated that Hinrich would stay with the Bulls working a sign and trade deal with Ben Gordon.

I'd personally be a major fan of holding onto Hinrich and shipping out Gordon.

ZoomSlowik

Jul 8 2008, 10:54 AM

Man, that's going to be a bad offensive team if we do that. I don't really have a problem with using Hinrich as a combo guard that gets about 25-30 minutes if the offers out there are unsatisfactory, but you also need Gordon's offensive punch pretty badly given the rest of the lineup right now. You can't have Hinrich as your #2 scoring option and a rookie Rose/Noc as your #3, at least not if you want to be successful. If they're going to do that Hughes better not see the floor, either have him ride the bench or buy him out and give Rose, Hinrich and Gordon the bulk of the minutes with Thabo as the 4th option. He can't be getting significant minutes if we're going to keep Hinrich and play him at the 2. That might not be an awful idea for a year or two so Rose doesn't have ALL of the ball-handling responsibilities. I suppose it all does depend on what they get back for Gordon, though it better be pretty legit talent.

Steve9347

Jul 8 2008, 10:56 AM

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jun 30 2008, 02:51 PM)

There is no way you trade Hinrich for Camby and have him sit on the bench. He's the DPOY.

Cough. Ben Wallace. Cough.

Chisoxfn

Jul 8 2008, 11:43 AM

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 8 2008, 09:54 AM)

Man, that's going to be a bad offensive team if we do that. I don't really have a problem with using Hinrich as a combo guard that gets about 25-30 minutes if the offers out there are unsatisfactory, but you also need Gordon's offensive punch pretty badly given the rest of the lineup right now. You can't have Hinrich as your #2 scoring option and a rookie Rose/Noc as your #3, at least not if you want to be successful. If they're going to do that Hughes better not see the floor, either have him ride the bench or buy him out and give Rose, Hinrich and Gordon the bulk of the minutes with Thabo as the 4th option. He can't be getting significant minutes if we're going to keep Hinrich and play him at the 2. That might not be an awful idea for a year or two so Rose doesn't have ALL of the ball-handling responsibilities. I suppose it all does depend on what they get back for Gordon, though it better be pretty legit talent.

You are definately correct when you saw offensively that would be a horrible team. Deng isn't a go to scorer or at least hasn't proven himself as that nor is Hinrich and we all know Tyrus/Noah aren't and it would be foolish to expect Rose to do such. Essentially the only scorers would be Deng/Hinrich/Nocioni/Drew Gooden and well that doesn't bode for a pretty team (defensively you'd be talking about a solid team).

I still have my thoughts that the Bulls should have went for Beasley (giving them the scorer they have drastically needed) while moving Gordon elsewhere or even in a package deal for a legit 2 guard (Hinrich can be a starting PG on a title team, imo). Rose obviously could be too, but in Hinrich's case he could do it and be mediocre, Rose will have to be incredible given the Bulls make-up.