Sign-and-Trade in works?



Drew Gooden: Sign-and-Trade in works?

I like the 23 yr old Sweetney and Duhon over Gooden who is NOT a Skiles type player.

Gooden is as intriguing as wilcox, though he has been a quality producer for longer but probably has a lower ceiling.

The problem with spending a ton of $ on either one remains that we are gonna have at least a decent draft pick in an awesome draft for bigs.

We DO NOT want to spend $60 mil on a guy who belongs on the bench behind whoever we get next year.

ALso, as wilcox looks likely to sign a tender offer for 1yr to become UFA, we can go after him next year after he's had to produce another year if the draft doesnt yield us a prized big.

I would not fault the Bulls for bringing him in, BUT I think PJ and Sweets can score enough to keep teams honest.

I hope paxson's plan looks like this instead of throwing 60 mil at one of those guys:

'06-07: Over 50 wins, make lots of noise in the playoffs, maybe get lucky and make it to the finals, but most importantly take the year to get everyone extensive playoff experience and have the year for everyone to develop A DEFINED ROLE!

'07-08-Add low post scoring threat via draft or FA and resign our guys, be the favorites to come out of the east after adding to a team that already went deep in the playoffs the previous year, we're all business from start of season to finish bc everyone now knows their place.......win a title

I think that story is rehashing a story of a couple days ago where his agent made some comments very similar to the ones in this article.

Either way I hope there is some serious truth to this rumor because it would give the Bulls a player capable of putting the ball in the cylinder from the low post. He'd also be surrounded by a good coach, a good friend (Hinrich) and some very good veterans.

I realize people have questioned him at times, but if the Bulls want to get him all Pax has to do is ask Hinrich. If Hinrich says he works hard, etc than I think we pick him up (if the Cavs are interested in the package).

I think the Bulls would be a better team now, and in the future if we add Drew Gooden into the mix instead of having Du, and Sweets. However, how much will Gooden get paid is the question... id love to have him for cheap, but i dont think thats gonna happen....

I'd like to see Drew added, if nothing else than for his size.

No thanks to Gooden. I'll give Sweets the nod if what I've been hearing is true about his focus on keeping his weight down and getting in shape. With Ben and PJ manning the boards...I'm content. I just don't see Gooden as that big an upgrade...plus too much $$$.

IMO, Drew Gooden is not the final piece to the puzzle. He looks lathargic at times, his defense is mediocre and we would be overpaying him. We can do better. I would rather go with the guys we have than to bring in a stop gap and be stuck with him for several years. He is not a skiles/pax guy...he is a classic underachiever.

The best thing he would bring is size. I'd rather keep Duhon and Sweets. Plus, if Sweets has lost weight, he could be the low post answer we seek.

I agree with your vision for next year - I think the Bulls are capable of making a nice run in the Eastern Conference Playoffs.

As for adding a low post scoring threat, our best chance is going to be with the Knicks pick next season. I expect the Bulls to flip flop that pick as the Bulls should be in the 20's, and you'd think the Knicks would be in the Top 5 or so again. There is going to be a lot of big time talent in the frontcourt next season.

Also, don't forget that Tyrus Thomas, in hopefully no longer than 2 years, will be a presense down low - maybe in more of the shot blocking, rebounding mold than a dominating offense force, but that is too early to say

With all the money that Hinrich, Gordon (assuming the Bulls decide to keep him long-term), Noce, and Deng will command, we are not going to have the salary cap room to offer more than the mid-level for future seasons, and as we've been seeing with average/below average big men (Chandler, Nene, Dalmebert, etc) getting 10 million plus, we won't be able to afford anything more than a role playing big man.



I don't think this rumor is anything more than an agent trying to drum up interest in his client. Gooden wants huge money (6 years, 60 million) from Cleveland, and nobody else is/can offer that right now so the only way to get a long-term deal is through the sign and trade.

While I would jump on a Duhon/Sweetney trade without taking the salary cap ramifications into consideration, the fact is, making that trade, and taking on another long-term, big money contract would most likely result in the Bulls having to let one of their younger core players go in the future.



It would be nice if the Bulls could get one more big man to play in a rotation with Ben Wallace and PJ Brown until Tyrus Thomas is ready to contribute. I don't think that's going to happen though, and the more I think about it, I'm somewhat comfortable with it. Michael Sweetney and Malik Allen can play as backups, Thomas can hopefully develop, and be that 3rd guy as the season wears on. If not, at least Sweetney and Allen are at least comfortable in our system, and have had some moments for the Bulls.



I've always thought that Gooden wouldn't be a good fit for a Skiles team because he's not a really disciplined player - too many times, I've seen Gooden take bad shots from the perimeter, and, as you say, struggle on defense.

As I said above, if there was no salary cap ramifications, I'd probably make the trade for Gooden if it meant giving up only Sweetney and Duhon, but I don't think that's a good move because we'd be committing big money to him instead of a player like Noce or Deng.

Don't get me wrong though - when he's on his game, Gooden is a very good player, but there are too many times that I've seen where his game just is full of mental errors.

Some great posts. I think we are seeing eye to eye on this one. I think Gooden is an obvious questionmark and he may not be the guy that puts us over the top, but I do think if things really worked out and he gelled and played hard he'd be able to give this team a legit low post scorer. However, Whether he's worth the money he'd get thats another story.

And in general I think Spot's scenario for this year and than next year is a good one. Next year if the draft pick is a guy that could really help great, otherwise we'll still likely be in a position where that pick, packaged with a few other guys could get us that final piece. So either way I see the final piece coming around next year which is going to be good because its about when this team will really be ready to step to the next level.

This year if all went right, maybe, but most importantly they need to build confidence, mature, gel, and obviously win a playoff series or two.

By the way, welcome aboard

It's the story of his life.

Are you from soxtalk?

I think so...at least I know there is a poster named spiderman on ST.

Drew Gooden will be a nice addition to our club.. For one year, maybe two. I just cant see him as our future PowerForward that will be playing with us for 8 plus years or so. Guys like Brandon Wright or Greg Oden are guys that will likely be the Future of a team. Therefore I dont want to pay him the money that they're talking. I would take my chances through the draft.

Yes sir

Is it possible though that Drew Gooden could work as a good counterweight to Ben Wallace in the middle? Specifically, Wallace isn't exactly an offensive threat, but he dominates on the Defensive end. Gooden is somewhat of the opposite...

Basically his job would be to score on the offensive end, and put another big body in the lane to clog it up so that Wallace can be more effective on the offensive boards, while on the defensive end, his job would just be to put his hands up and be big, while Wallace roams in behind him.

Wallace would at some level cover up for Gooden's flaws on the defensive end, so that if he missed a play he had someone as backup, but just having the 2nd big body down there could help Gooden's defense improve anyway because he'd know he had help, so he could be more aggressive. Z doesn't exactly strike me as the best big help defender in the league, maybe I'm wrong in that assessment though.

Of course, I'll be the first one to say that if he can't fit into Skiles' system, or if he wants Ben Wallace type dollars, he'd be a terrible guy to get, but I'm just sort of throwing out there that he might work in the "Rasheed" component alongside Big Ben, even if he doesn't fit the mold perfectly.

I defiantely agree with you that the Bulls would be able to get away with a guy like Gooden playing along side a guy like Ben. Offensively Gooden could be the man while on defense we'd expect him to work hard but he'd know that he'll alawys be guarding the weakest offensive player and he'll always be aided by the best defensive center in the league.

For the right price (right around the excemption so 5-6 mill) I think he'd be a significant upgrade.

No thanks to Gooden. I'll take the hard worker in Sweets for much less money any day. Gooden for ten a year is a joke, the guy has shown potential to be very good yes, but his consitency is terrible. A handful of good games a month surrounded by 10 equally craptacular efforts isnt something I would ever consider shelling out that kind of dough for. Now if he wants to get real and take a realistic paycheck I'd consider it, but that's unlikely. I'm on the record as a Sweets supporter, and I dont see a reason to give up on him for someone with such unproven consitency, all while paying the rediculous pricetag of 10 mil a season and two good pieces of depth. Yes, Sweets was also inconsistent last year while in terrible shape to play in Skiles offense, but I really want to see what he can bring to table this season with the effort he is putting into his game. I just hope Sweets is truly getting as much work done as we have heard, and comes ready to play in peak condion. I might be in the minority here, but the big guy can only get better, which will either help us through his play for us, or via trade for another piece. I also hope to high hell that Tyrus adds the bulk needed to stay at PF, because he could be VERY good there should he get bigger.

Gooden's ability to be a low post scorer and a pretty good rebounder would be a nice addition - I just think he's not really a Skiles player as he doesn't always play good defense and tends to have a questionable shot selection.

With the age of PJ Brown, and Ben Wallace's lack of scoring, I would prefer a dependable 3rd option who can play 30 minutes a night, and Gooden would be someone I'd take a hard look at with his ability to score. Of course, this won't happen with the money demands he has, but I do agree with you, it would be nice to have a dependable 3rd option.

"Okay, so I typically dont do this but if felt that this time was warranted.

I have a buddy that I work with who happens to know a close associate of John Paxson. He spoke with this guy yesterday afternoon. According to the associate, Paxson has one more move up his sleave. I asked my buddy if he had any details as to who and he said no, they guy didnt give any names. But based on the "reading between the lines" method, he got the notion that a S&T for Gooden is in the works.

Now I have known this guy for about 6 years and he doesnt come off as being the type of person that fabricates things. But he said that this guy that knows Paxson is fairly certain that Paxson isnt done dealing. But the detail in regards to who are pretty sketchy. So take that for what you will.

On a side note, he also told me that JR Smith was in deed forced upon Paxson. The only reason that Paxson accepted the deal was because he wanted to unload Chandler that bad. He said that Paxson wanted nothing to do with JR and that Paxson was already exploring deals for him before the trade was even completed. Thats why it took a little more time for the deal to become official. Paxson was waiting on Denver.

I know some of this may seem obvious but it kinda confirms alot of stuff to me. The organization was high on Chandler but he became the perverbial smoke machine. Always talked the talk but never walked the walk. According to my buddy's source, this was the reason that Paxson never spoke highly of Chandler. Oh, and one more thing, contrary to popular belief, Chandler was gone this summer regardless of whether or not we got Ben Wallace. My buddy's source claims that Paxson was hell bent on getting rid of Chandler due to his lack of consistent production.

I know some of you may question this. Hell, I probably would. But this is what I was told just 20 minutes ago and I though that it was worthy of its own thread."

-I saw this on realgm.... I DID NOT TYPED THIS, JUST COPIED AND PASTED IT HERE. Anyways, what do u guys think?.... If we do end up making a trade that involves Du, Sweets and maybe a filler for Gooden, are we ready to go ALL-THE-WAY this year, or most likely next year?

I'm glad you didn't write that....I just don't think it's true that we're trying to trade for Gooden - not unless hie significantly lowers his contract demands. Would he upgrade the team ? I think so, forming a nice 3 man rotation with him, PJ Brown and Ben Wallace, but I don't see Paxson taking on another big contract..basically, taking on the contract that the just traded away (Chandler's).

The logic throughout that post makes a lot of sense. I'm not going to say that Pax has always slammed Chandler though because if he did he'd have never given him the extension he did in the first place. But the JR Smith stuff makes sense and I buy into the fact that Pax has another move up his sleeve. The real question is whether that move is coming this year or next year.

Pax has been quoted a few times about him having another move coming or that there is still more to be done but its been a real vague way that he words it. I wouldn't be shocked though if Gooden was that guy and if Gooden is that guy I guarantee you one thing, Hinrich went out and vouged for him and my guess is he'd have gone as far as to calling Gooden and seeing whats up and trying to put things together.

That's pretty much my feeling as well. I don't think Pax would add a contract like Gooden supposedly wants ($10/yr) after just unloading Chandler's fat contract. That would pretty much negate the reason we got rid of Tyson and picked up Brown (to get his expiring contract). Though I'm not saying that's the only reason we got him b/c he does bring a lot of leadership and experience to the team. But, the expring contract was probably the biggest factor. That way, that money is off the books for next offseason when Gordon, Deng, and Noc will all be coming up for contract extentions.

So the question then would be...how much of a contract would Pax be willing to offer? Just because Gooden wants $10 m doesn't mean he'll get it from anyone.

Where are the reports that Gooden wants 10 million? I know I heard Wilcox wants 10 million and I've seen quite a few of you guys saying Gooden wants 10 but I don't recall seeing that read anywhere and I know the few times I saw his contract talked about (not quotes from him, rather analysts) and they said just over the midlevel will probably get him.

Well, if all he wants is the midlevel, then go get him Pax! I just said 10 mill b/c I'd read on here that that's what he wanted.

I was just reading somewhere that the Cavs have recently had some talks with Gooden and have made absolutely no progress with the negotiations. I'm guessing Pax is closely watching and waiting. I think the Cavs want to keep him, especially considering they are actively looking for more help down low (regardless of whether they keep Gooden or not).

I KNOW I read somewhere, either espn insider or realgm, that he wants the same 60 million that Nene got. It compared him to Wilcox, and said that bc one team gave out one bad contract, the remaining bigs have an inflated sense of their market value.

I will post a link if i can find the article again....

I make this trade yesterday. A front court rotation of Ben Wallace, Drew Gooden, and P.J. Brown would be pretty sick, IMO. The only problem is that we would be absolutely barren at backup PG without Duhon.

Losing Duhon would definately hurt, but the beauty is Miles has been relatively impressive and could be the 3 while Sef is very capable of running the point as a backguard. However, I'd be the first to admit we'd be screwed if we lost Kirk for any extended period of time because with Duhon gone we wouldn't really have anyone ready to run an offense (I can't say Sef is ready since he's a rook, even if he's played professionally for a few years).

However, I still think we could find some sort of quality vet after the deal. Not necessarily a great PG or anything, but a vet thats been around and could be a good role player (if the Bulls didn't have faith in Sef and Miles).

How bout a guy named Howard Eisely?

Eisely is the perfect guy, but everything says we are going to release him. If we kept Eisley or just renegotiated his contract and moved Duhon...I'd be so content with our depth.

i really dont think we will move chris

Neither do I. The fact that he is the epitome of everything Skiles loves in a player is enough to tell me that. His back is a real concern, though, and if we can get some real nice value out of him that helps us at PF(for the right price tag also), then I'd be all for it.

Good point. Hinrich is the face of the Bulls and should be around as he wants to/ is able to play basketball. If Kirk says Gooden's a solid player and an effort guy, Pax should make a play. If Gooden is questionable, I don't think Kirk will lie to Pax. Kirk wants to win and getting a head case on the bulls won't help them win

Kirk was interviewed during the season when there was talk about the Bulls maybe going after Gooden around the trade deadlin and I remember him giving a resounding yes as to whether Gooden would be a good fit on the Bulls.

That spoke volumes to me and if we pick him up it will speak even more loudly as to what Pax and Skiles think he'll be able to do. However, I don't see any move being made without Skiles/Pax having a face to face meeting with Gooden where they talk about there concerns while also discussing there expectations.

I'm hoping it pans out because I think with the right attitude and in the right spot, Gooden can be a very good player.

Hinrich definitely respects Gooden, and also probably thinks he'd be a big help to the Bulls, but I don't think Paxson is going to offer up a big contract to bring him in. That defeats gaining the expiring contract of PJ Brown. As Paxson said the other night on the radio, the trade does give him the ability to keep the core of the team together.

Yep. That's exactly what I've said about this situation. I'd love to bring in Gooden, but only for the right price. However, what I consider the "right price" is most likely not what Gooden considers the "right price." Now, if we did give him a big contract, we could still resign our core. But, that would put us deep into the luxury tax, and I don't know if the Bulls would be willing to pay that. They should be willing (with all the revenue this team brings in from being a Top 3 fan favorite in the league, they have the $ to spend), but you never know...

I agree...he would be a nice fit for the offense, and a good scoring compliment down low to the defense of Wallace/Brown.

With the luxery tax coming into play, I just don't see this as realistic.

Our best chance for a low post scoring option would have to be Michael Sweetney (that hurts me to say)....maybe Tyrus Thomas eventually, but that's a wait and see.

I wouldnt mind dumping Sweetney but I love Duhons defense and think he is an important role player and wouldnt want to trade him.

Gooden is good offensively but is not worth another $10 million dollars. He has good post skills and would definately help the Bulls. But if Lebron can't win a championship with him and all the other pieces I don't want him here either especially not for that price.


Hughes
Lebron
Gooden
Ilgauskas

Gooden's D is not the greatest. I would love to have him for $5-6 million but 8-10 I'll pass. If we are willing to pay 8-10 we might as well make another push at Wilcox because he is a better fit.

Drew Gooden signs with the Cavs for 3 years, $23 million.

That's a pretty good deal for the Cavs. Maybe a tad bit higher than what I'd pay for him, but with the "big man" market the way it is these days, it's not a bad deal at all.

Relatively fair deal for both sides, was surprised the Cavs ended up sticking with him.

That is a bargain at 2006 NBA big man prices.