NBA Collective Bargaining Agreement 101 as it pertains to James Harden Options

[rockren]

If we could have moved Rip, we would have already done so.

We're stuck with Rip for one more year and then we'll make a push for Harden in FA after amnestying Boozer.

[Balta1701-B]

We're stuck with Rip for one more year and then we'll make a push for Harden in FA after amnestying Boozer.

And after letting Gibson walk, presumably, leaving the Bulls with...I dunno, someone for the MLE at the power forward spot?

[ZoomSlowik]

And after letting Gibson walk, presumably, leaving the Bulls with...I dunno, someone for the MLE at the power forward spot?

They wouldn't HAVE to let Gibson walk, his qualifying offer is under $4 million. They'd still be able to match/extend him using his Bird rights, they'd just have to time it so they sign the new guy before officially signing Gibson.

The far bigger issue though is they'd have to find some way to dump Deng without taking ANY salary back. Basically, they can't have 3 of Rose, Noah, Deng and Boozer on the roster and still be able to offer a competitive salary to a FA (don't even try to say sign-and-trade, the Bulls don't have the right assets to make it work).

[Balta1701-B]

They wouldn't HAVE to let Gibson walk, his qualifying offer is under $4 million. They'd still be able to match/extend him using his Bird rights, they'd just have to time it so they sign the new guy before officially signing Gibson.

The far bigger issue though is they'd have to find some way to dump Deng without taking ANY salary back. Basically, they can't have 3 of Rose, Noah, Deng and Boozer on the roster and still be able to offer a competitive salary to a FA (don't even try to say sign-and-trade, the Bulls don't have the right assets to make it work).

Do the math. $19 million for Rose, $14 million Deng, $12 million Noah = $45 million. Now 2 rookies, another $2 million = $47 million. Now, $4 million Qualifying Offer to Taj = $51 million. And then there's a couple hundred thousand roundup in there I didn't count. The cap this year is $58 million.

Even if you cleared Hinrich somehow, if you make that Qualifying offer to Taj and Amnesty Boozer, you're left with $7 million you can offer under the cap. There is no way to make a reasonable offer to Hardin without getting rid of Deng or Noah and taking very little salary back.

[ZoomSlowik]

Do the math. $19 million for Rose, $14 million Deng, $12 million Noah = $45 million. Now 2 rookies, another $2 million = $47 million. Now, $4 million Qualifying Offer to Taj = $51 million. And then there's a couple hundred thousand roundup in there I didn't count. The cap this year is $58 million.

Even if you cleared Hinrich somehow, if you make that Qualifying offer to Taj and Amnesty Boozer, you're left with $7 million you can offer under the cap. There is no way to make a reasonable offer to Hardin without getting rid of Deng or Noah and taking very little salary back.

That's pretty much exactly what I said. A far simplier way to put it that I already used:

Basically, they can't have 3 of Rose, Noah, Deng and Boozer on the roster and still be able to offer a competitive salary to a FA.

The problem isn't Gibson, it's the large salaries to Rose, Noah, Deng and Boozer and you can only amnesty one of them.

[2nd_city_saint78...]

Any way we let both Taj and Booze go??? They'd have Rose-Harden-Deng-?-Noah with Teague and Butler on the bench and be at 57 mill.

I'd seriously be ok with Vlad Rad being the starting PF on a team with Rose, Harden, Deng, and Noah...He'd just be a guy to stretch the floor and hit a few 3s...Bulls had the best record with Keith Bogans as their starting SG, with more pieces on the team I think they can get by with Vlad.

So since they can go over cap to resign their own guys, I'd resign Vlad, Naz, and Bell....making the team....

Rose/Teague
Harden/Bellinelli
Deng/Butler
Vlad/Rookie
Noah/Naz

[Wanne]

I'm of the mindset that if/when Hardin leaves OKC he's going to Phoenix...so I wouldn't get my hopes up too much on him.

[ZoomSlowik]

Any way we let both Taj and Booze go??? They'd have Rose-Harden-Deng-?-Noah with Teague and Butler on the bench and be at 57 mill.

I'd seriously be ok with Vlad Rad being the starting PF on a team with Rose, Harden, Deng, and Noah...He'd just be a guy to stretch the floor and hit a few 3s...Bulls had the best record with Keith Bogans as their starting SG, with more pieces on the team I think they can get by with Vlad.

So since they can go over cap to resign their own guys, I'd resign Vlad, Naz, and Bell....making the team....

Rose/Teague
Harden/Bellinelli
Deng/Butler
Vlad/Rookie
Noah/Naz

All of those other contracts still count against your cap figure. You have to have at least 13 players under contract. Even if they're not on the roster yet, the league minimum for each spot is subtracted from your available cap space. Even if they literally had no other players under contract but Rose, Deng and Noah, they would still have another $8.5 mil counting against them. That means the Bulls would already be on the books for over $50 million, and they are committed to guys that make over the minimum already (Hinrich, Butler, Teague and their 2013 1st rounder).

To summarize again, "they can't have three of Rose, Deng, Noah and Boozer on the roster and still make a competitive offer to a FA".

[2nd_city_saint78...]

Can they go over to sign draft picks?? Using the scenario I last posted can they resign Robinson, their own 2nd rounder and (if they can get it) a 2nd rounder from the Hinrich or Rip trade would give them 13 players.

So its Rose-Harden-Deng-Noah-Teague-Butler at 57 (under the cap) then just resign Naz-Bell-Vlad-Nate and 3 draft picks.

Thats the last scenario I can think of, as far as making it happen without trading Deng or Noah.... and I'm probably wrong again....

[ZoomSlowik]

Can they go over to sign draft picks?? Using the scenario I last posted can they resign Robinson, their own 2nd rounder and (if they can get it) a 2nd rounder from the Hinrich or Rip trade would give them 13 players.

So its Rose-Harden-Deng-Noah-Teague-Butler at 57 (under the cap) then just resign Naz-Bell-Vlad-Nate and 3 draft picks.

Thats the last scenario I can think of, as far as making it happen without trading Deng or Noah.... and I'm probably wrong again....

Read my last post again, I already explained why they wouldn't have enough space to sign a free agent in that scenario. You can't just ignore the salaries for the rest of the roster spots.

Here's another way to word it. Read questions 36 through 42.

They're not going to be remotely close to a competitive offer in any scenario that involves keeping three of Rose, Deng, Noah and Boozer. Even if it's just Rose and Noah, they'd be pretty much screwed if they were forced to make a decision on matching a qualifying offer for Taj before they can get Harden.

[2nd_city_saint78...]

Read my last post again, I already explained why they wouldn't have enough space to sign a free agent in that scenario. You can't just ignore the salaries for the rest of the roster spots.

Here's another way to word it. Read questions 36 through 42.

They're not going to be remotely close to a competitive offer in any scenario that involves keeping three of Rose, Deng, Noah and Boozer. Even if it's just Rose and Noah, they'd be pretty much screwed if they were forced to make a decision on matching a qualifying offer for Taj before they can get Harden.

That last scenario didn't include keeping Taj. You're response to that was they need 13 players, so in response to that I asked can they go over the tax to sign their draft picks...which upon further "thinking" I think they can, there are 12 teams over the cap and I know those teams sign their draft picks.

IF they can get rid of Kirk for a 2nd rounder in next years draft and resign Naz, Bell, Nate, and Vlad they'd have 13 players...(and a hole at PF but with the other 4 starters being able to pick up the slack)

Rose/Teague/Robinson
Harden/Bell
Deng/Butler/2nd Rounder
1st Rounder/Vlad (again I'd be fine with Vlad starting just as a big who can stretch the floor)
Noah/Naz/2nd Rounder

[ZoomSlowik]

That last scenario didn't include keeping Taj. You're response to that was they need 13 players, so in response to that I asked can they go over the tax to sign their draft picks...which upon further "thinking" I think they can, there are 12 teams over the cap and I know those teams sign their draft picks.

IF they can get rid of Kirk for a 2nd rounder in next years draft and resign Naz, Bell, Nate, and Vlad they'd have 13 players...(and a hole at PF but with the other 4 starters being able to pick up the slack)

Rose/Teague/Robinson
Harden/Bell
Deng/Butler/2nd Rounder
1st Rounder/Vlad (again I'd be fine with Vlad starting just as a big who can stretch the floor)
Noah/Naz/2nd Rounder

Just read the link I posted. It explains why they wouldn't be able to sign Harden.

I'll even post the cliff notes version...

Rose+Deng+Noah= $42 million (and that number might be low, my other usual site has $44 million)
Butler+Teague+2013 first rounder= $3 million (minimum)
cap holds for the other 6 roster spots at the league minimum= $5 million (I thought it was 13 spots, but that link says 12, so I'm not totally sure. Definitely at least 12)

Total salary cap figure= about $50 million

So after using the amnesty on Boozer, renouncing Taj, dumping Hinrich somehow, and making sure you have no cap holds over the league minimum for those other roster spots (meaning you couldn't keep Bird rights on those players), you'd still have to convince Harden to sign for $8 million (or maybe less).

The roster you posted isn't remotely possible. Going over the cap to sign your own guys is a separate issue since you're trying to add a new player.

[2nd_city_saint78...]

What a fancy thread title...So they cant sign Harden first then resign their guys right? Once Naz, Bell, Nate, and Vlad hit FA the bulls can no longer go over to resign them...because thats all I'm saying.

You at least know where I'm coming from and don't think I'm dumb right lol.

I also realize it may be hard to convince all 4 of those guy to not sign a contract elsewhere when they hit free agency.

[ZoomSlowik]

What a fancy thread title...So they cant sign Harden first then resign their guys right? Once Naz, Bell, Nate, and Vlad hit FA the bulls can no longer go over to resign them...because thats all I'm saying.

You at least know where I'm coming from and don't think I'm dumb right lol.

I also realize it may be hard to convince all 4 of those guy to not sign a contract elsewhere when they hit free agency.

No, in fact they can't even sign Harden for anything close to the deal he'll get that starts at $14 mil, which you would know if you actually READ.

[2nd_city_saint78...]

Lol Ive read all your posts, I just didn't read whatever link you posted....Until now, damn. I was looking for that loophole they talked about....It made sense to me till I read that, I apologize for wasting your time...I tried to stump The Slowik....


So heres hoping Deng and Butler have a good year to justify the trading of Deng.