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> Ben Gordon wants respect, i.e. money
eddog2
post Aug 31 2007, 10:08 PM
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Curry/Chandler/Davis would have been a lot better for 2006-07 than Wallace/TT/Sweetney. I don't care what anyway says.

Curry/Chandler would also be better than Wallace/TT/Noah in the long run. Why? Because Curry/Chandler played well off of each other. Not to mention that Curry is the low post scorer that everyone and their mom agrees is what we are missing. Another 2 years together and the Bulls would have had the best lineup in the NBA without a doubt. Not to mention a super young lineup. So what happends in 2-3 years if we don't win a title. Wallace retires or is resigned but is only a shell of his former self.

Then what? By then we will have replaced his $15 million with TT, Gordon, & Deng's extension. So we won't have money to go out and get another good center. We'll have to hope that Noah becomes a true Center and not a PF, and we'll have to hope that Tyrus develops into an all-star caliber PF.

Instead, we could have Curry/Chandler signed for about $18 million combined per season, Deng/Gordon/Hinrich and Sefolosha/Nocioni/Duhon on the bench.


The last thing we need is for use to trade Gordon for something he less than what he is worth and not bring another true scorer back to the Bulls. The Bulls without a potent scorer like Gordon are no more than a 45 win team, and that's if they are lucky. I just can't imagine the Bulls having to rely on Kirk & Deng to be the top scorers b/c neither player creates their own offense that well, and neither creates offense well for their teammates.

Wallace
Tyrus or Noah
Deng
Sefolosha
Kirk

That lineup would be about as bad if not worse than the Bobcats were at scoring last year. Just ugly. Gordon is the only player that can truly create his own offense. We just can't afford to lose him unless we bring in someone that matches or exceeds his scoring ability.
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sport1016
post Sep 2 2007, 12:02 AM
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I’ve been doing a little thinking, and here’s the best case for the bulls:
Don’t make a deal.
Paxson isn’t convinced that a starting backcourt of Hinrich and Gordon is a championship combination. On the one hand, the NBA has opened up and gone to small backcourts like in Dallas, Golden State, Utah, occasionally Phoenix and Milwaukee, and the Bulls with basically their top three guards all 6’3 or less the last three years. But Dallas was a better team with a bigger Adrian Griffin starting at the two. Especially in the playoffs. And Baron Davis is 6’5 and amazing. Milwaukee is healthy again. This year Utah will swap out Derrick Fischer for Morris Almond or Ronny Brewer.

Of course a three guard rotation with Thabo presumably getting minutes at both guard spots to maximize the time the bulls have a 6’7 man in their backcourt is helpful. Hinrich has proven he can spend time against bigger guards these last few years. But that rotation is not ideal unless Thabo started and Gordon came off the bench. It’s the reason Seattle had limited success with Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis. Scorers aren’t worth much if their man is making up for it and then some on the other end. The solution is to not match Ben up on the floor against Jason Kidd and Vince Carter. Thabo and Kirk are much better equipped to challenge them. Ben could truly average 22ppg in 32 minutes off the bench, a scintillating and probably all-star worthy feat.
But BG7 wants to be a starter. He always has. He always will.
At least he wants to be paid like one. Ben thinks he deserves the salary of a starting SG who averages 22ppg. If he were 6’5, I’d be outside the Berto Center on a hunger strike until Paxson got a deal done. But he’s not. He might not be 6’2.

In a year or two when Tyrus and Noah add strength and polish, the Bulls will have the most versatile and dynamic front court in the league with Noah, Thomas, and Deng. Defensive, shooting, and playmaking studs like Thabo and Kirk are very well suited to play with those three long armed finishers. Assuming you haven’t paid Gordon the big bucks he wants the Bulls can easily afford those five guys along with a solid bench headed by Nocioni and an aging Wallace for a long time. Or maybe for the sake of Thabo’s versatily the Bulls move Deng to the 2 and Nocioni to the 3 and Thabo to the bench. Or maybe put Tyrus on the bench and Deng/Noc at the 4. The point is, the Bulls have too many long, athletic, talented players who can defend multiple positions never mind their own to pay Gordon the big bucks.

Now that I’ve just explained why this team doesn’t need Gordon, I’d like to add the caveat that I’d love to keep him and have figured out how:
Don’t make a deal.
Low ball him with 6th man money. A contract similar to Nocioni’s 38 million dollar deal. That deal I’d do.
Let Gordon play out the year and become a restricted free agent. Starter or 6th man, we’ll get his best in a contract year. Then, next off-season, when Gordon becomes an RFA no one will touch him when the Bulls claim they’ll match any offer. Anderson Varejao is highly regarded, but no team will tie up their money just to have Cleveland match the offer nine days later. Chandler, Curry, nor Crawford received other offers for the same reason as RFAs. This will force Ben to give the Bulls another contract year performance after signing a reasonable one-year tender offer.
Now, two seasons later one of two situations will hopefully occur: 1) Ben will have been coming off the bench for 1-2 seasons, and may have accepted a Barbosa/Ginobili/Stackhouse role and a similar pay scale. 2) The Bulls will prove to Paxson (and me) that they can make a championship run with Ben starting at the 2, and two offseasons from now pay him starting SG money with a clear conscience after another two years of evaluation.
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hammerhead johns...
post Sep 20 2007, 01:42 PM
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QUOTE (TeaLeafReaderII @ Aug 27 2007, 10:19 AM) *
"If you look at other players around the league that are doing things similar to what I’ve done in my past year and throughout my career, I just want to get that equal respect," said Gordon, who’ll become a restricted free agent after the upcoming season if he fails to sign an extension. "And that’s all it’s really about. The money I make is going to be more than I’ve ever made, so it really just boils down to getting your just due and your respect."


laugh.gif

Ben,

You have built up one hell of a resume if we're talking about bouncing the ball off of your knee-caps. That 2.9 to 2.5 career assist-to-turnover ratio is a thing of beauty. Words can't describe how awesome your defense is. Your contributions to team chemistry are immeasurable.

Now, go and share the ball with Jamal Crawford and Stephon Marbury. For the love of God, get the f*ck outta here. You're ruining my entire Bulls experience.
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BG7
post Sep 22 2007, 11:21 PM
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The Bulls need to stop being conservative with pay and offer the guys who are vital to the success of this team decent contracts.

The fact is that the Bulls would not have gotten to the 2nd round Playoffs without BG. And we will not continue to be successful without him, unless he's replaced by a superstar shooting guard, which I don't see happening at all.

Sure, Luol Deng seems to be attracting all the attention lately (and he deserves it), but we can't and won't get to the next level without BG's scoring. There are very few guards who can light up the scoreboard like him. And all the haters can STFU because his offense + unselfishness + work ethic EASILY makes up for his lack of defense.

The man deserves a new contract.
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sport1016
post Sep 23 2007, 12:59 PM
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Ben is an amazing offensive player. You can't watch basketball and not think that. It's true he is a terrific scorer.

But what team has won it all with a tiny backcourt?

It could be argued it has kept many very good teams from being championship teams. Jeff Hornacek's lack of size was one major reason the Jazz never won a title. Last season Dallas was supposedly the best in the league, but they were even better with Griffin starting at the two than the more talented but small Devin Harris.

The Bulls would look their best with Thabo starting at the 2 and BG getting 30+mpg and 20+ppg off the bench. He could be the best of the barbosa/stackhouse types.

There is no way you can convince me that having ben start is better for the TEAM. Forcing him or kirk into early foul trouble every other game is not championship caliber basketball.

Keep Ben. But you have to pay him like a 6th man. He won't take that. Hence, no contract yet.
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