Kirk's Pay Day..., Kirk Signs 5yr/47 Mill Extension Options

[hinrich fan]

October 31st will be here before you know it. The Bulls will waste no time showing the league their for real when the take on the Champion Heat. However, it's worth noting Kirk Hinrich still has no contract extension...we all know Pax is going to give him one...thus the question...anybody care to shout out how much $$$ over how many years K-Rich gets???


http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_18652.shtml

[Bullies4Life]

i think Kirk will be getting around 6 years, around 50 Mil... maybe a little bit higher than that...

[bulls91]

i think that he will not ask for that much money he wants a good team and that is the olny way to keep that team together so i think that he will ask for about 5-7 mil not eight.

[madisonsmadhouse]

i think that he will not ask for that much money he wants a good team and that is the olny way to keep that team together so i think that he will ask for about 5-7 mil not eight.

Don't kid yourself. The guy will be looking for his payday. To be honest if Kirk asks for anything less than $10 million a year for at least 5 years, he is an idiot.

[Steve9347]

i think that he will not ask for that much money he wants a good team and that is the olny way to keep that team together so i think that he will ask for about 5-7 mil not eight.

yeah. i know that's what I'd do

[Balta1701-B]

Don't kid yourself. The guy will be looking for his payday. To be honest if Kirk asks for anything less than $10 million a year for at least 5 years, he is an idiot.

I think that's what he'll probably ask for...it's what he should ask for...and it's what the Bulls should be open to paying...but the Bulls shouldn't necessarily pay it.

What the Bulls should do is exactly what they did with Chandler. If Hinrich won't re-up at something that saves the team a little, say 5 years and $8 mil a year...let him hit the market, make it abundantly clear that they're going to match any offer Hinrich receives, and then try to iron out something that makes both sides happy. Even if he's given a max contract offer by someone, we can still match it.

[eddog2]

I think that's what he'll probably ask for...it's what he should ask for...and it's what the Bulls should be open to paying...but the Bulls shouldn't necessarily pay it.

What the Bulls should do is exactly what they did with Chandler. If Hinrich won't re-up at something that saves the team a little, say 5 years and $8 mil a year...let him hit the market, make it abundantly clear that they're going to match any offer Hinrich receives, and then try to iron out something that makes both sides happy. Even if he's given a max contract offer by someone, we can still match it.

Not sure if I agree with your idea. I think that the Bulls would be smart to try and give him the 5 year $40 million dollar contract before he even has a chance to hit free agency. Maybe with a nice chunk as a signing bonus. I think if you let him hit free agency, there will be some team out there like Toronto, Minnesota or some other team that want/needs a good point guard that would be willing to pay him the big money. (maybe even L.A.). I don't think that is a good route because it could cause the Bulls to significantly overpay.

[madisonsmadhouse]

Not sure if I agree with your idea. I think that the Bulls would be smart to try and give him the 5 year $40 million dollar contract before he even has a chance to hit free agency. Maybe with a nice chunk as a signing bonus. I think if you let him hit free agency, there will be some team out there like Toronto, Minnesota or some other team that want/needs a good point guard that would be willing to pay him the big money. (maybe even L.A.). I don't think that is a good route because it could cause the Bulls to significantly overpay.

And I have no doubt that they will try to give him a deal like that, but he would be a fool to sign the contract. This is most likely going to be the biggest contract that Kirk has a chance to get, and to settle for $8 million a year is not a smart move on his part. All you have to do look at this list of 2005-6 salaries and tell me what Kirk should be looking for. IMO $10 million is a solid offer, and a good number for Kirk, if he is going to give the Bulls a hometown discount. With the defense that the guy plays, and the leadership he brings, the fact he plays every game...someone will throw a bunch of money at the kid.

Players earning $7 million or more
1. Shaquille O'Neal (Mia) ....... $20,000,000
2. Allan Houston (NY) ........... $19,125,000 [retired 10/17]
2. Chris Webber (Phi) ........... $19,125,000
4. Kevin Garnett (Min) .......... $18,000,000
5. Allen Iverson (Phi) .......... $16,453,125
5. Stephon Marbury (NY) ......... $16,453,125
7. Jason Kidd (NJ) .............. $16,440,000
7. Jermaine O'Neal (Ind) ........ $16,440,000
9. Kobe Bryant (LAL) ............ $15,946,875
10. Michael Finley (Dal) ......... $15,937,500 [released 8/15]
11. Tim Duncan (SA) .............. $15,845,156
12. Anfernee Hardaway (NY) ....... $15,750,000
13. Grant Hill (Orl) ............. $15,694,250
13. Tracy McGrady (Hou) .......... $15,694,250
13. Jalen Rose (Tor) ............. $15,694,250
13. Keith Van Horn (Dal) ......... $15,694,250
17. Eddie Jones (Mem) ............ $14,576,250
18. Brian Grant (LAL) ............ $14,336,220 [released 8/10]
19. Tim Thomas (Chi) ............. $13,975,000
20. Antonio Davis (NY) ........... $13,925,000
21. Vince Carter (NJ) ............ $13,843,156
21. Antawn Jamison (Was) ......... $13,843,156
21. Dirk Nowitzki (Dal) .......... $13,843,156
21. Paul Pierce (Bos) ............ $13,843,156
25. Baron Davis (GS) ............. $13,700,000
25. Steve Francis (Orl) .......... $13,700,000
25. Shawn Marion (Pho) ........... $13,700,000
28. Ray Allen (Sea) .............. $13,223,140
29. Elton Brand (LAC) ............ $13,152,000
30. Joe Johnson (Atl) ............ $12,000,000
30. Michael Redd (Mil) ........... $12,000,000
32. Theo Ratliff (Por) ........... $11,666,666
33. Carlos Boozer (Uta) .......... $11,593,816
34. Mike Bibby (Sac) ............. $11,500,000
35. Lamar Odom (LAL) ............. $11,465,333
36. Pau Gasol (Mem) .............. $10,993,000
37. Andrei Kirilenko (Uta) ....... $10,983,000
38. Rasheed Wallace (Det) ........ $10,860,000
39. Zach Randolph (Por) .......... $10,666,667
40. Kenyon Martin (Den) .......... $10,636,364
41. Raef LaFrentz (Bos) .......... $10,623,288
42. Larry Hughes (Cle) ........... $10,344,900
43. Gilbert Arenas (Was) ......... $10,243,200
44. Richard Jefferson (NJ) ....... $10,200,000
45. Jamal Mashburn (Phi) ......... $10,075,000
46. Wally Szczerbiak (Min) ....... $10,000,000
47. Steve Nash (Pho) ............. $9,625,000
48. Marcus Camby (Den) ........... $9,150,000
49. Maurice Taylor (NY) .......... $9,100,000
50. Derek Anderson (Por) ......... $9,093,000 [released 8/3]
51. Tyson Chandler (Chi) ......... $9,000,000
52. Jason Richardson (GS) ........ $8,888,888
53. Brad Miller (Sac) ............ $8,750,000
54. Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Cle) ..... $8,740,000
55. Erick Dampier (Dal) .......... $8,662,500
56. Kelvin Cato (Orl) ............ $8,640,000
57. Richard Hamilton (Det) ....... $8,625,000
58. Rashard Lewis (Sea) .......... $8,571,429
59. Jamaal Magloire (Mil) ........ $8,533,333
60. Samuel Dalembert (Phi) ....... $8,470,000
61. Tony Parker (SA) ............. $8,400,000
62. Jerry Stackhouse (Dal) ....... $8,367,187
63. Mehmet Okur (Uta) ............ $8,250,000
64. Doug Christie (Orl) .......... $8,200,000 [released 8/11]
65. Andre Miller (Den) ........... $8,100,000
66. P.J. Brown (NO) .............. $8,000,000
66. Bobby Simmons (Mil) .......... $8,000,000
66. Bonzi Wells (Sac) ............ $8,000,000
69. Shandon Anderson (NY) ........ $7,900,000 [released 11/10/04]
69. Austin Croshere (Ind) ........ $7,900,000
71. Lorenzen Wright (Mem) ........ $7,700,000
72. Jason Williams (Mia) ......... $7,562,500
73. Kwame Brown (LAL) ............ $7,500,000
73. Peja Stojakovic (Sac) ........ $7,500,000
73. Ben Wallace (Det) ............ $7,500,000
76. Manu Ginobili (SA) ........... $7,428,937
77. Eddy Curry (NY) .............. $7,390,000
78. Troy Murphy (GS) ............. $7,365,079
79. Desmond Mason (NO) ........... $7,333,333
80. Adonal Foyle (GS) ............ $7,312,500
81. Darius Miles (Por) ........... $7,250,000
82. Cuttino Mobley (LAC) ......... $7,200,000
83. Jonathan Bender (Ind) ........ $7,175,000
84. Corey Maggette (LAC) ......... $7,000,000

[eddog2]

And I have no doubt that they will try to give him a deal like that, but he would be a fool to sign the contract. This is most likely going to be the biggest contract that Kirk has a chance to get, and to settle for $8 million a year is not a smart move on his part. All you have to do look at this list of 2005-6 salaries and tell me what Kirk should be looking for. IMO $10 million is a solid offer, and a good number for Kirk, if he is going to give the Bulls a hometown discount. With the defense that the guy plays, and the leadership he brings, the fact he plays every game...someone will throw a bunch of money at the kid.

I see one point guard on that list that didn't even get $10 million per year. Steve Nash. Is Hinrich better than Nash? NO!! Maybe he will be but he isn't. To give him $10+ million will significantly jeopardize are chances of retaining all of our core pieces in the future (especially since we overpaid for Wallace).

If Kirk doesn't what to sign for 5 years he can do what Lebron did and sign a 3 year deal and then hit the market in his prime. Probably after he has made the all-star team. That is when he would have the biggest contract of his life. 3 years $24 million is a good contract and I think he would be stupid not to take it. Then he could hit free agency in three years and sign the "huge" contract you think he deserves.

Anyway, there are a lot of players (several all-stars) that have less than $10 million contracts. Steve Nash, Tony Parker, Andre Miller. These are all quality PG's. The Bulls need to make Hinrich a reasonable offer, and let him know that they want him to stay a Bull for his career. But they should also sell it from the standpoint that they want to win championships and that they want him to be their leader. I think he already knows that is the case and I hope that he buys into the team concept. I think Nocioni and Gordon will buy into it and accept around $7-8 million so I think Hinrich should too.

[ZoomSlowik]

I see one point guard on that list that didn't even get $10 million per year. Steve Nash. Is Hinrich better than Nash? NO!! Maybe he will be but he isn't. To give him $10+ million will significantly jeopardize are chances of retaining all of our core pieces in the future (especially since we overpaid for Wallace).

If Kirk doesn't what to sign for 5 years he can do what Lebron did and sign a 3 year deal and then hit the market in his prime. Probably after he has made the all-star team. That is when he would have the biggest contract of his life. 3 years $24 million is a good contract and I think he would be stupid not to take it. Then he could hit free agency in three years and sign the "huge" contract you think he deserves.

Anyway, there are a lot of players (several all-stars) that have less than $10 million contracts. Steve Nash, Tony Parker, Andre Miller. These are all quality PG's. The Bulls need to make Hinrich a reasonable offer, and let him know that they want him to stay a Bull for his career. But they should also sell it from the standpoint that they want to win championships and that they want him to be their leader. I think he already knows that is the case and I hope that he buys into the team concept. I think Nocioni and Gordon will buy into it and accept around $7-8 million so I think Hinrich should too.

That's not a very good line of argument. Just because someone better is making less or someone worse is making more doesn't really mean anything. Timing has a lot to do with how much these guys are making. Most of the monster deals are from before the collective bargaining argeement, which means there was no limit on contracts. Also, your performance when your contract is up is a major factor. Nash was a good point guard when he got that deal, but he didn't get to be this good until after he signed it. The same can be said about Parker, and Miller wasn't playing very well when he got his. The point is that Hinrich would be likely to get that much if he hit the free agent market right now, which is really all that matters. Unless they take major steps forward, none of our other guys are in line to make anywhere near that much money.

Not sure if I agree with your idea. I think that the Bulls would be smart to try and give him the 5 year $40 million dollar contract before he even has a chance to hit free agency. Maybe with a nice chunk as a signing bonus. I think if you let him hit free agency, there will be some team out there like Toronto, Minnesota or some other team that want/needs a good point guard that would be willing to pay him the big money. (maybe even L.A.). I don't think that is a good route because it could cause the Bulls to significantly overpay.

You're not really risking all that much because the Bulls can offer more money than any of those teams under the collective bargaining agreement. Hinrich is a key player, so they're highly likely to match whatever anyone else is going to offer. Unless he gets $12 mil or more (which is unlikely), that's not too insane.

[madisonsmadhouse]

I see one point guard on that list that didn't even get $10 million per year. Steve Nash. Is Hinrich better than Nash? NO!! Maybe he will be but he isn't. To give him $10+ million will significantly jeopardize are chances of retaining all of our core pieces in the future (especially since we overpaid for Wallace).

If Kirk doesn't what to sign for 5 years he can do what Lebron did and sign a 3 year deal and then hit the market in his prime. Probably after he has made the all-star team. That is when he would have the biggest contract of his life. 3 years $24 million is a good contract and I think he would be stupid not to take it. Then he could hit free agency in three years and sign the "huge" contract you think he deserves.

Anyway, there are a lot of players (several all-stars) that have less than $10 million contracts. Steve Nash, Tony Parker, Andre Miller. These are all quality PG's. The Bulls need to make Hinrich a reasonable offer, and let him know that they want him to stay a Bull for his career. But they should also sell it from the standpoint that they want to win championships and that they want him to be their leader. I think he already knows that is the case and I hope that he buys into the team concept. I think Nocioni and Gordon will buy into it and accept around $7-8 million so I think Hinrich should too.

An agent doesn't go into negotiations and site who didn't get the big bucks, they come in with a list of comperable or worse guys who got a ton of money, and use that as their basis for their salary demands. Sure the Bulls can counter with the guys who make less, but believe me the particular situations of why a deal got signed will be brought up. The Bulls know Kirk is a cornerstone of what they are trying to do, as does the rest of the NBA. Kirk is going to get his payday. Trust me on that one.

[eddog2]

He probably will get his money but I don't think he should get more than $10 million. At what point does Paxson have to cut the line and think about the future of the Bulls. Will it be worth it to pay Hinrich $12 million and jeopardize not being able to keep Nocioni, Gordon, Deng down the road. Unless Paxson plans on trading one of those three down the road, he really is going to have to get everyone to accept less then what the market is willing to pay. That is why he needs to sign them to new deals before they even hit free agency and some team like the Knicks offers them big time money.

I'll be the first to say that I want them to keep all 4 of their core players. But at what price does any one of the 4 simply put Paxson in a position that he doesn't want to be in or won't accept being in?

[madisonsmadhouse]

He probably will get his money but I don't think he should get more than $10 million. At what point does Paxson have to cut the line and think about the future of the Bulls. Will it be worth it to pay Hinrich $12 million and jeopardize not being able to keep Nocioni, Gordon, Deng down the road. Unless Paxson plans on trading one of those three down the road, he really is going to have to get everyone to accept less then what the market is willing to pay. That is why he needs to sign them to new deals before they even hit free agency and some team like the Knicks offers them big time money.

I'll be the first to say that I want them to keep all 4 of their core players. But at what price does any one of the 4 simply put Paxson in a position that he doesn't want to be in or won't accept being in?

Of the Core players, right now Kirk is probably the least replacable, unless Deng really blows up this year. Luol without a doubt has the highest ceiling IMO, and really the big thing for him is his outside game. If he gets a steady jumper from 20-25 feet, he will be a 20 PPG guy. Gordon to me is the most replacable as he is only a scorer, and isn't much on the defensive end, on top of being undersized.

[eddog2]

http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_18652.shtml

This article suggests that Hinrich based on production deserves about $6.5 million but that based on market value he likely will command something like 5 years $55 million. The article says that Paxson likely want to sign Hinrich for something in the $8-9 million range and that is what has kept Hinrich from being signed thus far. The article compares Hinrich to Tony Parker and Joe Johnson. I can see the Parker comparison (although Hinrich is not as quick as Parker) but I don't see how he compares to Joe Johnson. Johnson is definately a better player. (no insult to Hinrich)

Anyway, I hope that Hinrich does end up signing something in the $8-9 area. You also have to remember that he plays in Chicago and that he can make substantially more advertising in Chicago then more then half of the basketball markets. If he becomes an all-star, he will be able to add several million dollars to his value.

[madisonsmadhouse]

5 years 50-55 million sounds like the value he could get through the open market.